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SPOILER: Metal Gear Solid V Spoiler Thread | Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO
- Thread starter MMarston
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Yeah, this didn't really seem like it was open to interpretation to me.
I thought it was pretty clear.
At least, I understand it the way you do.
...why should they have? They gave Kojima 5 years to make his game (which was already more then they agreed to in the first place), what incentive did they have to give him even more time?
That is correct.
immortal-joe
Member
Cool, thought so.
Come to think of it, I don't recall ever getting an explanation of how Big Boss survived at the end of MG 1, though it could just be a fuzzy memory.
Anyway, I finally beat the game about 30 mins ago. Yeah, I get it, cut content. Really though, what's there is just fantastic. The masterful mechanics are the glue that kept it all together and made it a joy to go through.
Come to think of it, I don't recall ever getting an explanation of how Big Boss survived at the end of MG 1, though it could just be a fuzzy memory.
Anyway, I finally beat the game about 30 mins ago. Yeah, I get it, cut content. Really though, what's there is just fantastic. The masterful mechanics are the glue that kept it all together and made it a joy to go through.
this masterful gameplay enough to give this game a 97 GotY status?
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
that's what happened. He's also listening to a tape labeled Operation Intrude N313 which implies that he was being programmed right up until MG1 to go forward with the events of the first game
yeah, this whole Venom Snake was BB in MG1 thing seems like Kojima wanted to fix something that wasn't broken. It's already explained that how Big Boss survived the events of the first game was that he was brought back using Snatcher tech. No need to try to retcon that when it was explained away
ShockingAlberto
Member
A codec call in MG2 mentions he replaced parts with cyborg parts.
Which made perfect in-world sense already.
Aren't you too disappointed your avatar without the exoskeleton didn't make an appearance ?
KOMANI
KOMANI
Looking back, and seeing these "rumored" lost chapters... I believe what would be revolutionary and never done on a video game is a game that can be played forwards to backwards and tell a different story. And having a scenario with two Bosses and the same prologue and "epilogue", I think this game could have achieved this.
I really believe that SHOULD have been the next logical step, not rehashing what MGS2 did better.
I really believe that SHOULD have been the next logical step, not rehashing what MGS2 did better.
About that, IIRC operation intrude N312 preceded N313.
Some in this thread (me included) have been wondering who of the two BB picked up and trained Gray Fox. Venom not being in the know about intrude N312 kinda confirms that Gray Fox always has been with the real BB.
immortal-joe
Member
For me? It kinda does : )
It's a sandbox game the way every MG since MGS was, only expanded.
As I said in another thread:
This game tries to disguise itself as open world, but it really isn't, not in the western sense at least. Most developers harp on the "go anywhere, do anything" philosophy, but that won't amount to much when there's no fun to be had in the "doing" part. For me, MGS V doesn't do the "go anywhere" part, but it absolutely excels at the "do anything", because the game seemingly took the "everything" part into account, with the context of stealth-action in mind.
As far as the story is concerned, I loved it, I did. I just wish it was being told in a more rapid fashion, and lasted longer. Rather, I wanted it to keep going. It's crazy how many of us thought there's not much story to cover in this game, then it ends with many feeling "wait.....what happens next?".
Anyway, all things considered, yeah, this is my GOTY.
PedroPanache
Member
The man has a strange history of re-explaining plot points with new (and IMPROVED!!) plot points. Liquid Ocelot from possession (via The Sorrow's genes) to hypnotherapy and Vamp's powers coming from water to nanomachines. It's understandable, I guess, since the mythology bible they've been using for the past 10 years was written by this guy....
ShockingAlberto
Member
It is my GOTY but I have significant, grievous problems with it.
Gummifaust
Member
Probably asked a million times: But how can I stop this horrible singing in the background when Quiet is joining missions?
To release a better product than what we got, obviously.
Play mission 45.
KOMANI
KOMANI
Complete mission side op150 and main op 45
lol, ok.
AuthenticM
Member
lol
That's not how it works. Developers don't get a free pass from their companies to finish the game whenever they want to. MGSV was already a fucking money shredder for Konami.
Ok, this thread is getting silly.
80 million dollars makes sense for a 70 hour open world game with a very good engine and a team of expensive talent from multiple sectors. It's still a third of the price that a game like GTAV had and similarly less time, btw. Rockstar has also been making open world games for 10+ years, making them more effecient at developing them.
The story has literally nothing to do with the budget. They just messed up and wrote a story with a few large plot holes and some unsatisfying conclusions. The game could have had the same budget but not fall into those failings, but they did. Unfortunately it takes extra time and money to fix anything that has gone wrong during development, so fixing it was made more complicated once the game neared completion.
Please, just be positive and look at what you were given instead of looking at what wasn't there. The phantom content you are all looking for is just that, a phantom of your own creation.
80 million dollars makes sense for a 70 hour open world game with a very good engine and a team of expensive talent from multiple sectors. It's still a third of the price that a game like GTAV had and similarly less time, btw. Rockstar has also been making open world games for 10+ years, making them more effecient at developing them.
The story has literally nothing to do with the budget. They just messed up and wrote a story with a few large plot holes and some unsatisfying conclusions. The game could have had the same budget but not fall into those failings, but they did. Unfortunately it takes extra time and money to fix anything that has gone wrong during development, so fixing it was made more complicated once the game neared completion.
Please, just be positive and look at what you were given instead of looking at what wasn't there. The phantom content you are all looking for is just that, a phantom of your own creation.
PedroPanache
Member
At this point the story is such a tangled web that you kind of don't want to know any more. It was all so much simpler when MGS3 was the lead-in to MG1&2. I always knew it would end this way. The more Big Boss games we got, the more screwed and nonsensical his whole arc would end up being. For a start, Peacewalker's ending and his rejection of The Boss tramples all over his monologue in MGS4. It's probably just as well that Kojima can no longer work on the franchise.
There's no way this game was supposed to be five chapters when the one complete one we got was the length of a meaty video game.
And if somehow that image is true then I don't blame Konami for kicking Kojima to the curb. A five chapter MGSV would be the most expensive game ever created.
And if somehow that image is true then I don't blame Konami for kicking Kojima to the curb. A five chapter MGSV would be the most expensive game ever created.
immortal-joe
Member
Oh, side note: I found some of the performances in those cassette tapes to be the best across the entire saga, and the production quality on them was at times crazy.
Some highlights:
- Skull Face, Code Talker and that bell
- The entire Burger Subplot <-- Kojimaaaaaaaaa
- Every recording under the final "Truth Records" section. Whoever they got to play Zero was amazing.
Some highlights:
- Skull Face, Code Talker and that bell
- The entire Burger Subplot <-- Kojimaaaaaaaaa
- Every recording under the final "Truth Records" section. Whoever they got to play Zero was amazing.
Yea... actually i am not surprised this put that much strain into their relationship... having them part ways in the way they did.
What people fail to understand sometimes is that games is a business... Konami and other giants want to make profit and they have margins that they can't cross. Thats about it.. its not for your entertainment.. its for profit. Its kinda sad. But its the truth for most big corporations.
real_slime
Banned
She does that when she has a target in her sights, it's supposed to let you know. I generally have her on cover fire or scouting now that I've got all her stuff, so I don't hear it that often cos she just fires at will or is too busy moving around to be humming.
Don't think you can just turn it off though.
This game needs a few mods eh.
The second half of the game disagrees with you, and the cut episode 51 and the buried chapter 3.
If the $80M budget is true for MGSV, then it's damn near the same budget that MGS4 got, and that game continuously brought in revenue for Konami. This game is also releasing on four additional platforms than MGS4, making the install base and potential for return an order of magnitude larger. The development of this game also led to the creation of an engine that was to be used for the remainder of this console generation, so its budget can be considered a payment forward toward future games.
This wasn't any kind of uncharted territory of budget runaway, nor did it stand to not make itself back via sales and future games using Fox Engine.
Instead, we get Konami bosses deciding to vacate the console business to focus on pachinco and mobile, and abandon anything needing to be wrapped up with MGSV. Making a complete game that delivered on its ambitious would have only given this title legs that lasted a decade into the future, easily, just as MGS1 has. I doubt we'll see that with MGSV.
I didn't think he was an asshole either on PW... but oh boy do i hate him on TPP. He just can't stop lying. He seriously is a big asshole, and he gets caught every single time.
Guess it was to fit in with MGSV's overall supposedly darker tone.
And to show people he really deserved what happened to him, as told by Otacon in MGS2.
edit: was it 2?
The man has a strange history of re-explaining plot points with new (and IMPROVED!!) plot points. Liquid Ocelot from possession (via The Sorrow's genes) to hypnotherapy and Vamp's powers coming from water to nanomachines. It's understandable, I guess, since the mythology bible they've been using for the past 10 years was written by this guy....
Once again..
Ocelot WAS possesed in MGS2 by Liquid's actual ghost. It was supernatural. This comes from the MGS4 database itself.
And Vamp's powers were never explained to come from water. That was only an assumption by fans because water is always in contact with Vamp when he comes back to life, but there was nothing official.
His dad is the goddamn Sorrow for gods sake. It's not a massive leap and is consistent with the lore.
7DollarHagane
Banned
So if I still had quiet at the true ending did I miss out on something? She got tortured and talked to code talker, but nothing else happened with her after that.
Does this have to do with an emblem?
Does this have to do with an emblem?
KOMANI
KOMANI
You know it, brau
I agree 100%. I'm starting to see everything post MGS4 as a spin-off to Big Boss's story anyway. Much less frustating that way.
7DollarHagane
Banned
Having finished the game last night and having been a superfan since mgs1, I'm totally satisfied.
I wish there were more dlc chapters or future games coming but I'm satisfied with what we have here. Best game this year for me.
70 hours at 50%, I'll spend another year picking at it to get 100%.
I wish there were more dlc chapters or future games coming but I'm satisfied with what we have here. Best game this year for me.
70 hours at 50%, I'll spend another year picking at it to get 100%.
FranXico
Member
80 million dollars are worth less now than they were in 2008. Chances are, this game cost way more than that to develop either way.
Oh man guys, I'm back from a ban and boy what a brutal time to get slapped with one right before the release of MGSV. Needless to say I beat the game within the first couple days of release and like most everyone else here was SUPER disappointed in pretty much all aspects of the game's story and certain gameplay decision. Now, I planned to write a super long post detailing why the game's story was so bad but then it ballooned into like 8 pages and I figured no body would want to read that so I decided to try and make a video about. Of course, recently SuperBunnyHop came through with a video that perfectly stated many of the things I was already planning on saying about the game and its plot but since I was already half-way done with making the video I decided to finish it anyway.
So, here's my thoughts on MGSV's Story:
MGSV: A Phantom Plot (A Critique of MGSV's Story)
I want to apologize and warn you in advance for the poor audio quality and general production quality. I'm not some production whizz and I'm working with sub-par equipment. So be sure to turn up the volume and be gentle criticizing my voice work, I managed to screw up a few times recording and was too lazy to re-record those parts so take that as you will. Surprisingly, I forgot to mention a few other things that bugged me regarding the plot like how the "real" Big Boss is completely out of character for the brief bits we get of him but I can talk about that later.
Enjoy.
So, here's my thoughts on MGSV's Story:
MGSV: A Phantom Plot (A Critique of MGSV's Story)
I want to apologize and warn you in advance for the poor audio quality and general production quality. I'm not some production whizz and I'm working with sub-par equipment. So be sure to turn up the volume and be gentle criticizing my voice work, I managed to screw up a few times recording and was too lazy to re-record those parts so take that as you will. Surprisingly, I forgot to mention a few other things that bugged me regarding the plot like how the "real" Big Boss is completely out of character for the brief bits we get of him but I can talk about that later.
Enjoy.
Episode 51 was cut, but frankly it was clear that was the last mission. Debating that it is cannon is a mistake though. It could have been cut purely because they didn't like the way that story was headed and had no time to make a replacement.
Chapter 2 was par the course. Having played peace walker, you would have known that this was a thing he does.
Chapter 3 is a mystery, but I would say that it was probably intended to show that title card before the nuke ending, considering it's the only plotline in the game where a title like that makes sensitive.
I think the phantom content shit needs to stop, just learn to accept the game for what it is and not what it isn't.
The rumored MGS4 budget was $60M. After inflation, that would be $77M, which is very close to the rumored $80M budget of MGSV, and one is a console exclusive while the other is on five platforms.
Konami has denied the claims for MGS4's budget, though.
Kevin Shields
Member
Do people really think these were worst bosses in series? I thought MGS2's and Peacewalkers bosses were really lackluster. I loved Quiet, Man on Fire, Eli and Sniper Skulls more than both of those games bosses. Although Fatman was pretty fun.
Just finished the game. Soooo everything was filler, great. I didn't mind the plot twist, but the ending felt rushed.
This was an amazing game and an awful Metal Gear. Why does Kojima insist on shoving pseudoscience down our throats instead of just leaving things be? Unexplainable magic happenings are cool, man, don't spoil the fun.
Anyway, another game that retcons things and another game where Kojima shits on MGS1-2-3. What happened to him after 3 that he had to explain everything with stupid shit?
Then it shows the game has cut content, of course all the Eli things, but another thing sprang to mind: is Quiet the mentor of both Sniper Wolf and Crying Wolf? Maybe.
Among all the mess the story is there is something that bothers me: Quiet couldn't speak english, OK, but she could speak Navajo... why couldn't she use CT (we are asuming nobody else in the world speaks Navajo here) to explain things to BB & company? Couldn't she write? I feel like I'm seeing something very evident here or that I missed something.
This was an amazing game and an awful Metal Gear. Why does Kojima insist on shoving pseudoscience down our throats instead of just leaving things be? Unexplainable magic happenings are cool, man, don't spoil the fun.
Anyway, another game that retcons things and another game where Kojima shits on MGS1-2-3. What happened to him after 3 that he had to explain everything with stupid shit?
Then it shows the game has cut content, of course all the Eli things, but another thing sprang to mind: is Quiet the mentor of both Sniper Wolf and Crying Wolf? Maybe.
Among all the mess the story is there is something that bothers me: Quiet couldn't speak english, OK, but she could speak Navajo... why couldn't she use CT (we are asuming nobody else in the world speaks Navajo here) to explain things to BB & company? Couldn't she write? I feel like I'm seeing something very evident here or that I missed something.
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
fuck me i didnt remember the exact operation intrude that was on the tape lol
but you knew what i meant.
and none of them trained Gray Fox. In Metal Gear Solid 6ix you find out that the actual person that trained him was none other than Solidus Snake, who was on assignment in the area of middle africa. He leads a small battalion made exclusively of child soldiers who were all tough, but fair. And speaking of fair, one little pale and light haired boy was above the rest in toughness and fairness. He went by Jack but many referred to him as the White Lightning Boy which while redundant seemed to fit him in some way. He always acted first, then asked questions later. Often he would cry and cry but the battlefield was the only home he knew and these tears served to only make his lightning stronger. That's at least what it said on the back of his fatigues: Tears Make Lightning Stronger.
Also among them was a young girl named N. She's extremely cute, has an accent that would melt your cold heart, and she goes around helping the other boys with bandages and a scifi plastic pink syringe with a lovely little bow on it that she invented which converts wolbachia negative energies into beta alpha tissue repairing macronanomachines, an incredible invention that she made by having reviewed some documents she found in the attic of her home left up there by her aunt, a woman who went by the name of bizzarelove or something. Her thing is that she doesn't like getting caught up in the details! "when things are simple, they are universal" she would always say in between humming and wearing polka-dot pink and white swimsuits while deployed in the combat zone. She's close to Gray Fox though Fox does everything in his power to keep her away, including trying to get her to play hopscotch in a minefield while he punches her with giant boxing glosses that are made to look like small metal gears on each fist. She never falls for this, though, thinking he's just being a playful goof and not at all serious about this offer.
oh yeah so solidus takes up training GF but notices that while he sucks at shooting guns that he would make an excellent japanese stealth assassin. Fox then remarks that he's actually half japanese and comes from a long line of ninja assassins dating all the way back to world war II where his whole family all fought beside The Boss and her squad and did most (some say all) of the cleanup whenever things went bad. He then grabs a sword off the wall and slices the dummies in the room up into little bitty pieces, exclaiming HURT ME MORE in japanese, just as his ancestors did.
The game's conclusion starts with him swimming up to the front door of a base. he gets out, shakes his sword dry, and notices the massive hangar front door is wide open. He gets inside the base and they're doing some sort of practice drill. He can't figure out what it is for the life of him. He then notices what that noise he ignored earlier was. It wasn't his stomach grumbling again, he knows it's something else now. the noise is getting louder and closer. Is that a monster? No, but it's something, a machine of some sort. It appears as if the huge monster machine is walking towards the open door behind him. he toss his sword to the side to pick up his radio, he thinks he reads something on the side of the machine but can't quiet figure it out. he finds himself fumbling to start the radio and then decides to take his metal gear boxing gloves off because - for the first time ever - they were just getting in the way. He gets Donald Anderson on the radio - they bonded over both of them being half japanese earlier in the game and got closer when they discovered that both found western films to be really really interesting - and as the shadow of the machine's foot grows over him he finally gets something out
"metal gear?!"
david, being about 10 feet away from the radio in Cipher headquarters right next to Campbell and the head of Cipher who he never looks at for fear of being reprimanded, felt a sense of deja vu. Didn't that crazy guy Eli spend hours talking about a stupid walking robot called metal gear salsa back at the academy? His curiosity piqued, he puts his pants on, loads his clip one bullet at a time, and nods at the real big boss, who just finished having a dinner with Dr Clark and couldn't stop talking about how delicious that grilled belcher’s sea snake was. they kept saying how great that venomous snake was, how simple it was to cook and eat too.
David has no time for inside jokes: He has a mission to get on with. He smokes a cigarette, puts it out by shooting the tip with his silenced pistol, and then leaves for Pequod 2, their newest chopper. Time to do some dirt.
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