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SPOILER: Metal Gear Solid V Spoiler Thread | Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO

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SJRB said:
Kojima left them alone and they fucking trainwrecked it.

It was so bad that Kojima had to go to Platinum with hat in hand and basically beg them for help. I'm sure that was a harsh lesson for Kojima that his team is indeed not capable of making a game without his supervision; something he tried to accomplish before even MGS3 was released. But similar to Rising, MGS3's development was a mess and he had to step in.
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They took on a brand new genre (to them) with an interesting game concept. The reason why they floundered was because they struggled with designing a game in which you can 'cut anything'.

I haven't heard much about their MGS3, but Rising had the odds stacked against his team. It's reasonable to expect them to fare better making a standard Metal Gear Solid stealth game, like a big-budget heavily staffed Portable Ops.
 
SJRB said:
Kojima left them alone and they fucking trainwrecked it.

It was so bad that Kojima had to go to Platinum with hat in hand and basically beg them for help. I'm sure that was a harsh lesson for Kojima that his team is indeed not capable of making a game without his supervision; something he tried to accomplish before even MGS3 was released. But similar to Rising, MGS3's development was a mess and he had to step in.
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Salaadin said:
According to him, there were issues with 3 and 4, prompting his return. Rising then had to be given to Platinum because it was a wreck.

The "he could leave whenever he wanted" and "kojipro can make a game without him" are massive assumptions and conjecture that flat out ignore history.
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Excuse me while I don't believe a guy who told me I would be ashamed of my words and deeds.
I know the back story of 3 and 4... And rising. I was drinking the Kojima Cool aid. I just don't trust a word this guy says anymore. Who's to say MGS3 was fine until he stepped in and didn't like what he saw, then he started to meddle with the game like a true ego maniac.
 
foxtrot3d said:
Don't you shake your head at me Diamond Joe, as I said in my video PW closes BB's character quite brilliantly. Once you just accept the non-sense of these AI Tank monstrosities existing what you get is a well told story with amazing moments and a real heart. Coldman was a far more effective villain than Skullface and his plan made perfect sense.
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Eh, if it does, then it does so at the expense of MGS3's story (which was already a satisfying close to BB's character and motivations). What they did with The Boss and BB/Snake in PW was a travesty.
 
The more I stew about it, the more I realize that great gameplay is a poor excuse for saying that a game is good when everything else about it sucks.

MGSV is a letdown on all fronts except gameplay - and the narrative surrounding that gameplay is unfinished and utter garbage. I can't believe Konami released this steaming turd thinking we wouldn't notice it's glaring imperfections.

Knowing we will not ever get a finished MGSV [and in all actuality, after seeing the "twist" I don't know that anything else could help the structure overall] angers me that I paid $65 for an unfinished game.

How did this game score anything above a 45?!?
 
Edzi said:
Eh, if it does, then it does so at the expense of MGS3's story (which was already a satisfying close to BB's character and motivations. What they did with The Boss and BB/Snake in PW was a travesty.
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Peace Walker handles Big Boss cutting his ties to virtue pretty well in his parting ways with The Boss.
 
bad said:
Excuse me while I don't believe a guy who told me I would be ashamed of my words and deeds.
I know the back story of 3 and 4... And rising. I was drinking the Kojima Cool aid. I just don't trust a word this guy says anymore. Who's to say MGS3 was fine until he stepped in and didn't like what he saw, then he started to meddle with the game like a true ego maniac.
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So you're saying that he's a liar who publicly throws his team under the bus?
 
Salaadin said:
He was on as producer.
What that entails? I'm not educated enough to know
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There's a Kinda Funny video where Ryan (forget his last name but he's the creator or Republique) talks about what that entails and the struggle of meeting the deadline. It's a good listen.
 
brau said:
at least in my case, i don't think thats what im saying.

MGSV is a great game. But its not a good MGS game. Majority of people agree.... its unfortunate but true...and even when the game is amazing and people are playing it for 300 hrs... the experience for me... was not as enjoyable because the game kept going downhill in its story. Believe it or not. When it comes to MGS... i like the narrative.. and even if its not good narrative, or its to crazy. At least i like motivation in a game to keep me going from point a to point b.

Maybe in a few years i'll see the game as something else. But since i payed quite a bit of money for the game.. i would like to express my disappointment in the game and through it come to terms with it.

I am ok with another MGS game from Platinum tho.
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I guess we just went in with different expectations. It seems people went in wanting BB's downfall, old characters making an appearance, fan service, many cutscenes.etc after playing PW, I only wanted a game that is better than it and that's what I got lol. To me MGS ended after 4, period. The rest is just prequels that no matter what Kojima would do, it will still end in a direction we all know where it's heading which is MG1 so nothing really is going to alter the course of events because they were already set.

I have a feeling that Kojima wants to remake MG1 & 2 or atleast wanted to do so but after what happened with Konami and all, yeah.
 
Deckard Chapel said:
The more I stew about it, the more I realize that great gameplay is a poor excuse for saying that a game is good when everything else about it sucks.

MGSV is a letdown on all fronts except gameplay - and the narrative surrounding that gameplay is unfinished and utter garbage. I can't believe Konami released this steaming turd thinking we wouldn't notice it's glaring imperfections.

Knowing we will not ever get a finished MGSV [and in all actuality, after seeing the "twist" I don't know that anything else could help the structure overall] angers me that I paid $65 for an unfinished game.

How did this game score anything above a 45?!?
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Yea when gameplay and level design and a dynamic infiltration sandbox game is the best in the business at being a dynamic infiltration sandbox game. I can forgive a lot of shit. If it was an amazing story and sucky gameplay I would be pissed... So I kinda see your point. Different strokes.
 
foxtrot3d said:
How so?
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Alienous said:
Peace Walker handles Big Boss cutting his ties to virtue pretty well in his parting ways with The Boss.
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I'm just really not a fan of Naked Snake seemingly forgetting about the debriefing he was given by Eva at the end of MGS3, and then him rejecting The Boss over what some AI with The Boss's voice did. Then there was all the stuff (in the tapes I think?) about how The Boss was actually an even bigger victim all along, because literally every event in her life was some sort of tragedy where she was being used/taken advantage of by the government (though my memory is fuzzy on those details).

I really liked the implications of MGS3's ending, where Naked Snake becomes disillusioned by what happened to The Boss and how they were both used and thrown away by their government. It just seemed like PW threw that away in order to give us a way less satisfying reason for BB spiraling into madness.



If there's one good thing that MGSV's twist has given me, it's that I can now pretend that PW was just Venom's messed up reconstruction of the actual PW event, where he filled in the blanks and invented the whole "WHY DID SHE DEFECT" and "rejecting The Boss" stuff to justify his own motivations for being Big Boss.
 
Death Metalist said:
I guess we just went in with different expectations. It seems people went in wanting BB's downfall, old characters making an appearance, fan service, many cutscenes.etc after playing PW, I only wanted a game that is better than it and that's what I got lol. To me MGS ended after 4, period. The rest is just prequels that no matter what Kojima would do, it will still end in a direction we all know where it's heading which is MG1 so nothing really is going to alter the course of events because they were already set.

I have a feeling that Kojima wants to remake MG1 & 2 or atleast wanted to do so but after what happened with Konami and all, yeah.
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Yep.

I can see that.

I got GZ... and was amazed at how much better the gameplay was. So i didn't need TPP to prove to me how much better it could be.

Played that demo for like 12 hrs... and i know other people who indulged more. Great game.

So... with that out of the way, and the help of Kojimas trailers... we come to think as TPP as this magnus opus. In the end, his trailers are better directed and tell a better story than the actual game. Should i be disappointed? Even when i knew the gameplay would be fantastic already?

Sorry... but as a MG fan... i like the game to have an story... which i didn't see in 4. but loved 3. PW was an interesting mix of 3 with TPP structure. So it could've been done.
 
Deckard Chapel said:
The more I stew about it, the more I realize that great gameplay is a poor excuse for saying that a game is good when everything else about it sucks.

MGSV is a letdown on all fronts except gameplay - and the narrative surrounding that gameplay is unfinished and utter garbage. I can't believe Konami released this steaming turd thinking we wouldn't notice it's glaring imperfections.

Knowing we will not ever get a finished MGSV [and in all actuality, after seeing the "twist" I don't know that anything else could help the structure overall] angers me that I paid $65 for an unfinished game.

How did this game score anything above a 45?!?
Click to expand...
Maybe because the MGS story has always been garbage? I would much rather have a game that I like to play then a story, after MGS4 I realized Kojima just wanted to make movies and have cool looking shots. Maybe I'm stupid but I couldn't be bothered to make heads or tales of the entire MGS story, I mean a bomber guy that zips around on in-line skates, cloned soldier, impractical bi-pedal walkers, vampire guy. It was all thinly strung together high fantasy.

At least with some great gameplay I actually don't mind "playing" this game a ton, and there are a few cutscenes that don't overstay their welcome that show me some cool stuff. Plus I think the story is actually pretty neat, who cares if you aren't really big boss, this person that took over that persona becomes his own big boss with some cool story arch of his own.
 
Kevin Shields said:
Yea when gameplay and level design and a dynamic infiltration sandbox game is the best in the business at being a dynamic infiltration sandbox game. I can forgive a lot of shit. If it was an amazing story and sucky gameplay I would be pissed... So I kinda see your point. Different strokes.
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Pretty much. Man, listening to Maneater while sniping from a far, DD sniffing dudes out all while the sun is setting, so good. Drop in a tank as well for good measure if I got caught.
 
Edzi said:
I'm just really not a fan of Naked Snake seemingly forgetting about the debriefing he was given by Eva at the end of MGS3, and then him rejecting The Boss over what some AI with The Boss's voice did. Then there was all the stuff (in the tapes I think?) about how The Boss was actually an even bigger victim all along, because literally every event in her life was some sort of tragedy where she was being used/taken advantage of by the government (though my memory is fuzzy on those details).

I really liked the implications of MGS3's ending, where Naked Snake becomes disillusioned by what happened to The Boss and how they were both used and thrown away by their government. It just seemed like PW threw that away in order to give us a way less satisfying reason for BB spiraling into madness.
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Well, I don't think he discarded what EVA told him the game even replays EVA's explanation to him in a flashback it's more about Snake not knowing if what EVA told him was true and how The Boss felt about all of that. While EVA may not have been "lying" to him he couldn't be sure what EVA was told was true. But, like I said the big deal was him wondering why The Boss did what she did, why did she sacrifice herself given everything that Snake later learns?

The Boss AI allows Snake to finally ask her these lingering questions, he knows it's not The Boss but if Strangelove can be believed it's the next best thing. The Mammal Pod should think and act just like The Boss and in the end Snake gets his answers for better or worse.
 
I think this was mentioned by Jeff Gertsmann from Giant Bomb - but I think I agree with him. I think Kojima always intended for MGSV to be a different game than MGS 5. He purposfully mentions using V as the name instead of 5.

If you think about it this way - MGS V was supposed to be the "side story" he gives to the world - or a phantom sequel. Trying to dupe the audience. Then his next game (to extend the series) was to be MGS 5 being Big Boss establishing Outer Heaven and perhaps leading to Solid Snake's adventures..

The Konami relationship souring might have put a damper on this plan and the result was marketing it as the final link.

Thoughts?
 
foxtrot3d said:
Well, I don't think he discarded what EVA told him the game even replays EVA's explanation to him in a flashback it's more about Snake not knowing if what EVA told him was true and how The Boss felt about all of that. While EVA may not have been "lying" to him he couldn't be sure what EVA was told was true. But, like I said the big deal was him wondering why The Boss did what she did, why did she sacrifice herself given everything that Snake later learns?

The Boss AI allows Snake to finally ask her these lingering questions, he knows it's not The Boss but if Strangelove can be believed it's the next best thing. The Mammal Pod should think and act just like The Boss and in the end Snake gets his answers for better or worse.
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Kinda funny interviews Ryan Payton. I think it's part one, if not, then try part 2.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aPWohis0xHY
 
Kai said:
I think this was mentioned by Jeff Gertsmann from Giant Bomb - but I think I agree with him. I think Kojima always intended for MGSV to be a different game than MGS 5. He purposfully mentions using V as the name instead of 5.

If you think about it this way - MGS V was supposed to be the "side story" he gives to the world - or a phantom sequel. Trying to dupe the audience. Then his next game (to extend the series) was to be MGS 5 being Big Boss establishing Outer Heaven and perhaps leading to Solid Snake's adventures..

The Konami relationship souring might have put a damper on this plan and the result was marketing it as the final link.

Thoughts?
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Even if this is the case, the game on its own should stand on its own. Come to full circle on its own merits. When a story depends on another story or piece of evidence then it lacks closure... and it can become frustrating, confusing or both. lol

The idea doesn't sound bad. The idea that PW was already named MGSV by Kojima helps this i think. MGSV is a duplicate of MGS5.. like the side story you talked about.

Anyways... i guess we'll never know now :(
 
A question to those that beat it.

Does this game deserve a 10 and GOTY in your opinion?

I personally think it's a 9 at best. Gameplay is great, but the story and character development is completely lacking and incomplete.
 
Deckard Chapel said:
The more I stew about it, the more I realize that great gameplay is a poor excuse for saying that a game is good when everything else about it sucks.

MGSV is a letdown on all fronts except gameplay - and the narrative surrounding that gameplay is unfinished and utter garbage. I can't believe Konami released this steaming turd thinking we wouldn't notice it's glaring imperfections.

Knowing we will not ever get a finished MGSV [and in all actuality, after seeing the "twist" I don't know that anything else could help the structure overall] angers me that I paid $65 for an unfinished game.

How did this game score anything above a 45?!?
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Personally, I think the line of reasoning is even stupider in light of the fact that the core gameplay is great, yes. But even that has flaws, notably because of the lack of interesting things to do with that gameplay.

I don't think a 45 is a fair score. I feel like it deserves somewhere right around a 7-9 score. It's just not a masterpiece, aka a 10.
A-One said:
A question to those that beat it.

Does this game deserve a 10 and GOTY in your opinion? It would be a tragic insult if MGSV wins over those games.

I personally think it's a 9 at best. Gameplay is great, but the story and character development is completely lacking and incomplete.
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Like I said above, it doesn't deserve a 10. It's not a masterpiece. It's a 9 at best, but I could see a thoughtful critic dragging it down to a 7.

As for GOTY? God no. Other games deserve that.
 
A-One said:
A question to those that beat it.

Does this game deserve a 10 and GOTY in your opinion?

I personally think it's a 9 at best. Gameplay is great, but the story and character development is completely lacking and incomplete.
Click to expand...

It isn't a 10, IMO.

My honest score when I finished it was a 9, just considering it as a game. It's only really when I think of it as a Metal Gear Solid game that I'm disappointed.
 
A-One said:
A question to those that beat it.

Does this game deserve a 10 and GOTY in your opinion?

I personally think it's a 9 at best. Gameplay is great, but the story and character development is completely lacking and incomplete.
Click to expand...

In my opinion 80% of the game and its success is based on whether its fun. So gameplay is the most important factor. The rest is a mixture of presentation, sound, story if needed and stuff. So the game is at least an 8... but i think there are some design choices that prevent the game from really shining in the long run. So maybe a 7.5.

Thats my train of thought. Not GotY. Much better games out there that deliver a complete experience.
 
It's an 8 or 9 for me. The narrative undoubtedly falls short, but I was never a huge fan of story of the previous games. Less is more, although maybe they shouldn't have adhered to that particular guideline so closely.

Besides MGSV and SC: Blacklist, I can't really think of any other third-person stealth games (from the past decade) that I loved.
 
rtcn63 said:
It's an 8 or 9 for me. The narrative undoubtedly falls short, but I was never a huge fan of story of the previous games. Less is more, although maybe they shouldn't have adhered to that particular guideline so closely.

Besides MGSV and SC: Blacklist, I can't really think of any other third-person stealth games (from the past decade) that I loved.
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Blacklist was perfection. I loved that game so much. I wanted MGS to incorporate Blacklists gameplay. In this matter, the game surpassed Blacklist. TPP lets you do all cool moments through gameplay and you do them, with all the improvisation. Just makes you feel real badass.
 
I'm sure this has already been said, but it would have been amazing if real Big Boss' voice was Hayter's. At one point I thought the voice parasite thing was going.to be related to that.
 
why does big boss have both of his eyes in the hospital

Stereogatari said:
I'm sure this has already been said, but it would have been amazing if real Big Boss' voice was Hayter's. At one point I thought the voice parasite thing was going.to be related to that.
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Yeah, if they had replaced Ishmael/BB's voice in mission 46 with Hayter, I could die happy. THAT would be the ultimate conclusion.
 
A-One said:
A question to those that beat it.

Does this game deserve a 10 and GOTY in your opinion?

I personally think it's a 9 at best. Gameplay is great, but the story and character development is completely lacking and incomplete.
Click to expand...

The gameplay is a 10/10 and I understand when people think that's enough. But everything else is a 7/10 at best.

I average it out to at least a 8/10 since the main thing that made me a fan of MGS was everything plot related. If this was another game not part of the main series then I would rate it a 9/10.

Expectations and bias is fully the reason for that score, I'm not afraid to admit it.



My favorite moments in the game though:
1. First time playing the prologue (I was so naive)
2. First battle with Salhathropus
3. First time you infiltrate a base.
4. Paz's ending
5. Quiet battle on extreme
 
Good video foxtrot. I really liked your PW explanation. Playing through Big Boss' eye(s) it's easy to not realize what actually happened at the end of the gam regarding his character.
 
A-One said:
A question to those that beat it.

Does this game deserve a 10 and GOTY in your opinion?

I personally think it's a 9 at best. Gameplay is great, but the story and character development is completely lacking and incomplete.
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10, no. It's a 9.
GOTY so far, yes. I can't imagine anything else coming close to the fun I've had with this game.


Doctor_Thomas said:
Not even a GBA game! GBC! Fantastic game.
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Shit, you're right.
 
I'd give it a 9. That being said, very few games get a 10 from me. So it's still tied with the best game I've played this year (MGSV and Bloodborne).

I (mostly) don't factor in story of a game in my score. Story can increase a score, but rarely ever decreases. However, the 1 point deduction is from a few annoying things like repeating missions, the lack of a decent fast travel system and the timer bullcrap, among other minor annoyances.
 
Like MGS 5 is still a ridiculously strong candidate for GOTY. Regardless of development problems it had. People are upset but there is still enough there to make a case for it.
 
Alienous said:
That is an awful sentence.

Perhaps that's one place where Hayter had it right. Kept you waitin', huuurgh is probably the only way to deliver it.
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The way he delivers it when rescuing kaz...it's like someone who doesn't speak English and doesn't understand what the phrase means. It was awful.
 
9.5 to 10. The biggest fear I had was this game will be fun but story will get in the way in the same way tht MGS4 did. This is the best MGS story in terms of not getting in my way and not overstaying it's welcome so I was pleasantly suprised when I actually watched all the cutscenes and didn't have to sit screamin at the tv when big mama talked about crap for an hour and a half. I engaged the mediocre story and actually liked about half of it. But the gameplay. Oh gosh it's everything I wanted. It's just so much damn fun with so many options.

It's probably a 10 because my chapter 1 experience was exquisite but chapter 2 was kinda a mess. But figuring that chapter 1 took me 40 hours, I may be able to forgive chapter 2
 
Salaadin said:
10, no. It's a 9.
GOTY so far, yes. I can't imagine anything else coming close to the fun I've had with this game.
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Same. The lack of bosses and the stupid decision to remove Quiet from the game after a certain point are my only major problems with the game, but they are enough for me not to give it a 10. But yeah, the gameplay is just too good for me not to consider it my GOTY. Unless Halo 5 ends up being as good as Halo 3 or CE (pretty unlikely IMO) I don't see that changing.

And yes, the story is stupid/shitty/incomplete, but it doesn't affect my opinion of the game very much at all. Maybe if I still cared about it, its shortcomings would annoy me more, but since MGS4 made me stop caring about the story pretty much completely, I can't feel too disappointed really.
 
I start with a 10/10, then consider the missing/incomplete/garbage story, which is half of the reason I play MGS games for a 5/10. Then there's the gross mistreatment of the characters, female characters in particular which is good for minus one point, so 4/10. Then there are the poor gameplay design decisions, like the empty open world and repetitive side missions, those bring us down to a 3/10. Finally, personal fan complaints like: no David Hayter, no Solid Snake, too much Solidus snubbing bring us down to 2/10.

MGSV: 2/10
 
8 for me. Weak pacing, weakest excuse for boss battles in the series, most pointless story in the series, has health regen.... Screw it this game is a 7. I am not even finished with my list of cons.

A unfinished game doesn't deserve Goty.
 
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