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SPOILER: Metal Gear Solid V Spoiler Thread | Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO
- Thread starter MMarston
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Interficium
Banned
The reputation for having "wasted so much money" has absolutely nothing to do with the FOX engine, although that was also a years-long-project with questionable viability considering that a) things like Unreal 4 exist and have EXCELLENT japanese documentation now and b) the engine was being developed for a company who has clearly been trying to get out of the AAA console game business for awhile now.
Read ShockingAlberto's post. That's where the reputation comes from. He's taken KojiPro on a lot of loss-leader wild goose chases since MGS3 came out, whether it be chasing portables, or insisting on incredibly expensive hollywood talent with questionable end results, to scrapping work on a whim because of bad project planning.
Berserker976
Member
Well hey, if it makes you feel any better, Quiet most likely didn't just head out into the desert to die. It was a self-imposed exile to avoid spreading the English strain. The parasite shouldn't actually harm her, even when it's active because she has no lungs for it to attack.
She's still a walking biological weapon, but I like to think she's out there wandering Afghanistan, picking off some Soviets for sport and listening to her tunes.
Hahaha, I love this
ShockingAlberto
Member
I don't have a problem with Quiet slowly falling in love with Venom. Why not, we fight wars together.
I do have a problem with her expressing this by shoving her boobs in your face. Or, I guess Kojima shoving her boobs in your face.
I do have a problem with her expressing this by shoving her boobs in your face. Or, I guess Kojima shoving her boobs in your face.
KOMANI
KOMANI
So what you're saying is... Loves blooms on the battlefield?
Alex_Mexico
Member
Shining Sunshine
Banned
Man, the story getting to mission 30 is just so alien. It's like Kojima went completely cuckoo for this game.
I could suspend my disbelief in MGS4 with the nanomachine stuff since it's kinda cool, but this parasite zombie shit is messed up.
I like MGS3 the most because it was the most grounded in its theme.
I could suspend my disbelief in MGS4 with the nanomachine stuff since it's kinda cool, but this parasite zombie shit is messed up.
I like MGS3 the most because it was the most grounded in its theme.
Yeah, it was a cool shot, but it threw me off for a second since they rarely ever mention Mantis, even when it should be clear that someone should see him.
Something probably happened with Silent Hills as well. If he was working on that at the same time as MGSV...
I would have really liked this to have been more explored properly too. Doesn't even have to be romantic; just some form of strong mutual understanding/connection between the 2 given they're in the same situation. Damaged soldiers who've been made "quiet" by their superiors.
I've mentioned this before, but had it been more carefully approached like that, this is probably what that rain scene could have looked like instead if done right (Harry Potter spoilers lol). Not necessarily romantic but really shows an understand of each others suffering but getting some semblance of relief for a few minutes
It feels like Kojima's saying, "You like her because she shows her tits, right? Riiiiiiiiight?"
Ah, true love.
The Silver
Member
it's nice seeing this, the camera not treating Quiet like a sextoy
matrix-cat
Member
This bit right here (well, the normal version of it) almost single-handedly ruins everything Kojima was trying to do with Quiet. The whole dumb thing with her is that she and Big Boss cannot communicate. They don't share a common tongue, because she's forbidden herself from speaking English, and the only other language she knows is Navajo (which is perfectly believable and not contrived at all). And Kojima wants us to believe that that's it. End of story. No shared language = no ability to communicate whatsoever. We're supposed to ignore that she could just write a note, or type up a letter, or draw a picture, or scratch some graffiti on a Mother Base wall, or tap out some Morse Code, or nod or shake her head, one blink for Yes two for No, etc etc etc, because that doesn't fit Kojima's grand poetic ideal of his sans lingua franca theme. Two mute soldiers with no ability to communicate fall in Nicholas Sparks puppydog love and frolic in the rain ~uguu
And then she shows up in this scene with a simple, perfectly readable head movement, saying "Ey yo follow me bruh" clear as day. It's almost as if everything Kojima was trying to do with Quiet was
ShockingAlberto
Member
The doctor scene is so weird in retrospect.
Zero: I have this plan that involves this guy thinking he's Big Boss. So whatever you do, don't show him these pictures.
Doctor: Look, I went to med school, and there's no way he can come out of this coma completely if I don't show him these pictures and flip them over.
Zero: Damnit, well, I'm not a doctor, but can you cover up the text on the back with your hand?
Doctor: Oh, yeah, totes. But if he ever thinks too hard about it, he'll remember it completely.
Zero: That's just a risk we'll have to take.
Zero: I have this plan that involves this guy thinking he's Big Boss. So whatever you do, don't show him these pictures.
Doctor: Look, I went to med school, and there's no way he can come out of this coma completely if I don't show him these pictures and flip them over.
Zero: Damnit, well, I'm not a doctor, but can you cover up the text on the back with your hand?
Doctor: Oh, yeah, totes. But if he ever thinks too hard about it, he'll remember it completely.
Zero: That's just a risk we'll have to take.
The second pic is hilarious. So random! Lmmmaaaooo!
The hospital sequence is so weird from a gameplay angle.
Here's an incredibly open world game that does almost completely away with the cutscene-heavt design of previous games in the series. But let's start with a mission just like those games. Make it really slow so it can teach the player the controls. But also have a prologue game that has less cutscenes and gives the player full controls right away. Controls that are pretty much the same as this game. But it'll be okay, because it'll be super interesting since there's a lot of important things going on. But let's spoil almost all the important things of this scene in the first two trailers for the game. We also have a twist that's already obvious enough for some people to guess from the trailers, but might be vague enough to surprise people. Can we make that even more obvious?
Alex_Mexico
Member
Can someone confirm or deny if the voice of Zero we hear in MGSV is the same as in MGS3? He sounds close but not quite.
And if it isn't the same actor what was the reason behind casting a new guy here too? I get why Ocelot maybe needed a new voice (that doesn't mean I'll forgive him behaving nothing like the Ocelot I know) but what was the reasoning behind Zero? Why keep Miller and Emmerich but not Zero (or Big Boss!)?
And if it isn't the same actor what was the reason behind casting a new guy here too? I get why Ocelot maybe needed a new voice (that doesn't mean I'll forgive him behaving nothing like the Ocelot I know) but what was the reasoning behind Zero? Why keep Miller and Emmerich but not Zero (or Big Boss!)?
The original voice actor for Zero said they offered him an insultingly low amount of money for MGSV. So they had to go with a different guy
Zero: And whatever you do, don't show him his real face in a mirror before the surgery.
Doctor: No problem.
Alex_Mexico
Member
Well that sucks. It's not like his involvement would've been too much anyway that Konami couldn't pay it.
Keifer Sutherland was serviceable as Big Boss but more and more I realize just how much had to be sacrificed in order to get him into the game. Zero was probably one of many side casualties of paying Jack Bauer the top dollar he asked for.
That sucks. Used up too much money on Kiefer.
War Peaceman
You're a big guy.
lol people still going on about Kiefer as the reason for every change. The budget issues go way beyond Kiefer.
Sure, but a highly acclaimed, probably expensive actor, was not needed. If you don't pick Hayter you might as well pick someone cheap.
Listening to the "Doublethink" tape again, and yep, Big Boss explicitly says "He was our best man" when referring to The Medic. And Ocelot says they transplanted illusory memories of all BB's past missions into The Medic. They note he was a doctor, too, but as you see in the group photo where he's in body armor and holding an assault rifle, he was also a soldier. Again, to quote BB: "He was our best man."
Yes, he was a McGuffin do everything soldier/doctor.
You're welcome to your opinion of the twist, but I was just addressing claims the other day that the star soldier premise was fan fiction. It's not -- it's explicitly confirmed in the game.
War Peaceman
You're a big guy.
Whether he is good or not isn't the point. People keep conflating them not liking Kiefer's performance (which I disagree on, but it is a big change that I can understand why it may annoy) with the budget issues of the game. The budget issues are much larger than that. I mean, look at how much of the game is missing.
Right. It's a contrived, convenient explanation that clashes with the point of the twist; the player (i.e. anyone) can't be Big Boss, it requires the best soldier from MSF. So much for the story making the man, Medic Boss was a badass soldier beforehand.
Trash.
Of course he wasn't the sole problem. But he was part of the bigger one, the mismanagememt of money.
Well, I actually liked the plot twist, but I can see why people are so torn over the usual insanity. I would have liked to have played as the real Big Boss again too, but ah well. But there's no doubt how unfinished things were, and perhaps any future Metal Gear game should just stick to linear with open environments. I hope Kojima's next game has more cutscenes and talking by the protagonist again.
I can understand why he wanted to address the whole Big Boss thing between MG1 and 2, even if isn't a retcon a lot of people like.
Well Jim Piddock wasn't offered enough by Konami (I bet he supports this voice actor movement going on right now). I thought the new guy was pretty good, he sounded right for an older, ailing Zero.
I can understand why he wanted to address the whole Big Boss thing between MG1 and 2, even if isn't a retcon a lot of people like.
Well Jim Piddock wasn't offered enough by Konami (I bet he supports this voice actor movement going on right now). I thought the new guy was pretty good, he sounded right for an older, ailing Zero.
Don't forget female players are excluded, but don't worry, surely Kojima makes it up by having a strong female chara-
ohh
Or you can look at it as someone who is competent having their potential recognized and then proving their greatness as Venom. So the meta-theme still works.
But weren't YOU a (virtual) bad ass soldier before V? Weren't YOU basically Big Boss and/or his right hand man?
Seems to me it all still works.
Sal Paradise
Member
I think at one point during development of this game, Konami replaced Kojima with a random medi... fitness instructor from one of their gyms, while the real Kojima is still busy cleaning pachinko machines.
Exactly. It's a tip of the hat to the players who have gone on these adventures time and again. And in the final game, by way of The Medic, the player becomes the character.
Alex_Mexico
Member
Has anyone here questioned here the point of Les Enfants Terribles project of Zero could just make some dude into Big Boss? Surely easier than cloning mtiple children right?
I wish Kojima didn't show in the fucking REVEAL trailer the scene where Miller asks "what about him?" Towards the third unknown guy? Maybe the twist wouldn't have been seen as much!
One more thing that's gnawing inside me: why did Ocelot tell Venom Snake that Eli's DNA test came back negative that he wasn't his clone? Why did he lie? I don't get it.
I wish Kojima didn't show in the fucking REVEAL trailer the scene where Miller asks "what about him?" Towards the third unknown guy? Maybe the twist wouldn't have been seen as much!
One more thing that's gnawing inside me: why did Ocelot tell Venom Snake that Eli's DNA test came back negative that he wasn't his clone? Why did he lie? I don't get it.
crazyrabbits
Banned
Uh... no. In canon, Big Boss still does all those things that we saw in 3 and PW. He still builds up Mother Base and sees it (and almost all of its soldiers) destroyed in GZ. Attempting to spin this as "you were really him the whole time" is basically moving the goalposts.
Like I've said before, the more you think about the final twist, the less sense it makes. No amount of headcanon is going to fix it.
Unknown One
Member
Big Medic isn't Big Boss. Eli is Big Boss's clone, not Big Medic's.
That's not what he's saying, though. The "meta" element of the twist is you, the player, have played all of these different games, in all these different roles: Big Boss, Solid Snake, Raiden, etc. So when MGSV rolls along and introduces a character, The Medic, who symbolizes the player, the background of The Medic as "our best man" (Big Boss' words, from the Doublethink tape) is meant to represent the player's own background as a virtual soldier across all of the past titles. It's an undefined role, a blank slate for the player -- except for the fixed quality of potential, which is the player's skill and perseverance. It's symbolic and it works well.
The Silver
Member
The initial plan was to have another Big Boss as back up in case something happened with the real one and to preserve his genetic legacy. It was abandoned early on and then just did whatever with the clones, LET never really had a point besides Zero being obsessed with Big Boss and wanting to always have one around.(the big irony being this act is what drove the real BB away)
Venom is what Zero wanted in terms of having another "BB" to continue the legend, but not in terms of having his genes to pass on which was probably equally important to him at the time.
and maybe hypnomagic and transracial surgery wasn't perfected back in the 70s.
StopMakingSense
Member
From what I understand, a couple days voice work from a known film/TV actor isn't that large of a cost at all, in the grand scheme of things regarding a game that costs ~80 million dollars,
The real limit would be scheduling more than anything.
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