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SPOILER: Metal Gear Solid V Spoiler Thread | Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO

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BadWolf said:
Not much mental gymnastics needed. Where exactly were they going to get a bomb (in 1964) that not only blew the person up but also completely erased all traces of him? There was no such thing.

The bomb blows up and flesh and bones fly all over the place. Simple as that. The point was not to have a fully intact body for anyone to recover.

There is no plot hole there.
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Where are you going to get a wormhole device in 1984, or a giant railgun, or a robot capable of smooth bipedal locomotion? This series has never shied away from anachronistic technology.

A small bomb that explodes and incinerates a body is not really super far-fetched. Especially because again, that was its stated purpose, to remove the corpse, not to disseminate it.
 
Opto said:
What if it was, bear with me, a really good bomb
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Preposterous :p

Berserker976 said:
Where are you going to get a wormhole device in 1984, or a giant railgun, or a robot capable of smooth bipedal locomotion? This series has never shied away from anachronistic technology.
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That smooth bipedal locomotion was due to Mantis, not tech.

Things like the wormhole is just fun game stuff. That would be like saying the Monster Hunter stuff from Peace Walker was canon.
 
Neiteio said:
Yeah, I want to know what that's all about. Was Kojima planning to retcon Liquid into 9/11 or something? That... would've been bad.
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Hmm, MGS2 starts at 2007. 4 years prior to that was MGS1 at year 2003. There is no way it could have been retcon into 9/11, unless Kojima gives no fucks.

Zero is stationed in NY going by the Truth Tapes with Paz.
 
I still stand by the NY stuff was meant to show Liquid wanting revenge against Big Boss and America (because BB is American and Liquid was made by a group of Americans who planned to rule the world). NY with the statue of liberty is like, one of the most American pictures (next to an eagle and the flag or maybe the white house). And it makes sense to use that picture because it's an old picture (and the game takes place a while ago) and it's also thrown in on the bonus 30% complete cutscene/concept art mish mash.

Like, does that picture mean anything more than one of the random concept pictures of the Metal Gear doing shit it can't do in the game?
 
Opto said:
I feel like I'm getting two different messages here
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From the wiki:

Though based on the Hiller VZ-1 Pawnee storywise, the flying platform's design and appearance in Metal Gear Solid 3 is actually taken from the real life Williams X-Jet, which was developed in the 1970s (the implication being that the Soviets had surpassed America in this field of technology, for the game's 1964 setting, due to Volgin's use of the Philosophers' Legacy). As part of a long line of research in single occupant VTOL craft for the military, the prototype X-Jet was created by Williams International as a proof of concept. Its initial success resulted in the creation of the Williams Aerial Systems Platform, nicknamed "The Flying Pulpit", with testing of the WASP I and WASP II being completed in 1980. However, the lack of safety provided for the pilot in the event of an attack or system failure, resulted in the craft not being put into production. Ultimately, the U.S. Army deemed it to be inferior to helicopters and small unmanned craft.
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ElFly said:
I want to know what parasites allows you to survive as a ghost and summon the ghosts of people snake killed.
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This is pure speculation, but I imagine they would retcon that experience into some kind of parasite-induced mental state. More perception than reality.

I mean, in MGSV you have parasites manipulating people like puppets, changing skin pigmentation to reflect light for optical camouflage, expelling mist (there was a neat explanation for this that alludes me at the moment -- something involving salts), hardening skin in response to trauma, etc.

Sky's the limit when you've got bugs!
 
Neiteio said:
This is pure speculation, but I imagine they would retcon that experience into some kind of parasite-induced mental state. More perception than reality.

I mean, in MGSV you have parasites manipulating people like puppets, changing skin pigmentation to reflect light for optical camouflage, expelling mist (there was a neat explanation for this that alludes me at the moment -- something involving salts), hardening skin in response to trauma, etc.

Sky's the limit when you've got bugs!
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That part I found interesting since that is exactly what Armstrong's nanomachines were doing in MGR with his body.
 
BadWolf said:
Preposterous :p



That smooth bipedal locomotion was due to Mantis, not tech.

Things like the wormhole is just fun game stuff. That would be like saying the Monster Hunter stuff from Peace Walker was canon.
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best not to bring up peace walker when talking about anachronistic technology
 
BadWolf said:
That part I found interesting since that is exactly what Armstrong's nanomachines were doing in MGR with his body.
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Yep. Seems like the performance-enhancing abilities of parasites are a precursor to nanomachines.

In general, it seems that even the most fantastical phenomena in MGS has some pseudo-scientific explanation. I mean, they even tried to explain Mantis' powers, manipulating microwaves, etc.

The least explained "superhuman" is the Man on Fire. I don't think they really attempted to explain his ability to generate flame, absorb and repel bullets and bombs, and disappear when doused in water.
 
Neiteio said:
This is pure speculation, but I imagine they would retcon that experience into some kind of parasite-induced mental state. More perception than reality.

I mean, in MGSV you have parasites manipulating people like puppets, changing skin pigmentation to reflect light for optical camouflage, expelling mist (there was a neat explanation for this that alludes me at the moment -- something involving salts), hardening skin in response to trauma, etc.

Sky's the limit when you've got bugs!
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That's no fun and still doesn't explain how The Sorrow himself was around Snake Eater.
 
Neiteio said:
The least explained "superhuman" is the Man on Fire. I don't think they really attempted to explain his ability to generate flame, absorb and repel bullets and bombs, and disappear when doused in water.
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Not much explanation needed when Mantis is involved. Not to mention Volgin's body itself already had special abilities.
 
All in all, the sci-fi and spy-fi of MGSV is solid when you look at material in the game (cutscenes, cassettes, mission briefings/debriefings). There is stuff that's still unexplained, like the exact nature of the Man on Fire's power. They leave some stuff to the imagination, which might be for the best. But the retcons generally work, even if they're not always necessary, and even if they take away some of the mystique. And the nuances of the villain's plan and other machinations generally make sense.

I can understand people feeling let down by the characters (although I liked them), but I think the sci-fi/spy-fi is tighter than some think. It holds up surprisingly well under scrutiny.
 
BadWolf said:
Not much explanation needed when Mantis is involved. Not to mention Volgin's body itself already had special abilities.
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Yeah, I'm just saying the game didn't really try to explain the properties of Volgin's body. It made at least a mild attempt to explain how Mantis can do what he does, but not much for the Man on Fire. And really, that's fine. By this point I trust there's a "pseudo-scientific" explanation for everything in MGS. No need to know the particulars.
 
Neiteio said:
I can understand people feeling let down by the characters (although I liked them), but I think the sci-fi/spy-fi is tighter than some think. It holds up surprisingly well under scrutiny.
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What characters? (besides Miller)

You have Ocelot, who is just a walking exposition dump with no personality, Quiet, whose only development comes at the very end of the game, and is just a silent gameplay mechanic before that, Eli, who I already covered, Code Talker, Wolbachia copulation male to female parasites the Diné, or Skull Face, the guy you barely see until he explains his whole plan to you in a jeep and then has it utterly fall apart in the very next scene?
 
Berserker976 said:
What characters? (besides Miller)

You have Ocelot, who is just a walking exposition dump with no personality, Quiet, whose only development comes at the very end of the game, and is just a silent gameplay mechanic before that, Eli, who I already covered, Code Talker, Wolbachia copulation male to female parasites the Diné, or Skull Face, the guy you barely see until he explains his whole plan to you in a jeep and then has it utterly fall apart in the very next scene?
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I actually agree, in many respects, although I still enjoyed most of characters most of the time. Many of them have fixed personalities and exist to serve a certain role, but that's not always a bad thing.

I thought Skull Face was a great villain but I wish he made more appearances in the flesh (pun definitely intended). Huey was an excellent villain but I could see how fans of his PW depiction would feel betrayed. Quiet's intro (brutally killing the doctor, etc) colored my view of her, but she had her moments. Code Talker was great for the cliche expository scientist, even if that's all he was (beyond some comic relief in the burger tapes). Kaz was probably my favorite character; his performance was always on point, and while he starts and ends with "anger," there are still ups and downs in between. And Venom, for a character who says so little, still conveyed a lot to me with his facial expressions, body language and what he -didn't- say. A lonely introvert who didn't fully understand what was happening around him. But just like how you interpret people in real life, stuff like that will vary from viewer to viewer. That's the interpretive element.

I fully agree that Ocelot was a bit underwhelming. At the same time, I never really liked his past depictions, though. I can see how his fans would be disappointed.

Again, don't see this as an argument. I'm just giving you my take -- the stuff I liked and the stuff I wish was better.
 
Yeah Ocelot seemed like he was on tranquillisers most of the game compared to other portrayals.

And now that I think about it I did try and tranq him once and he mentioned he had a super high tolerance...
 
ShockingAlberto said:
Let's be honest with ourselves. We can rationalize how retcons fit or we can just make peace with the idea that Kojima probably forgot there were bombs.
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? He clearly didn't forget or he wouldn't have Code Talker mention getting pieces of the end. The bombs blew up, no corpse left behind, mission accomplished. Too bad little bits are still useful for Code Talker's purposes.

I honestly think it's the people looking for plot holes who are trying too hard with this one.
 
Ralemont said:
? He clearly didn't forget or he wouldn't have Code Talker mention getting pieces of the end. The bombs blew up, no corpse left behind, mission accomplished. Too bad little bits are still useful for Code Talker's purposes.

I honestly think it's the people looking for plot holes who are trying too hard with this one.
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I don't understand why people find the idea of a cleanup crew so offensive in the first place. Snake still did the heavylifting. A skeleton crew (pun intended, again!) handling some of the finer details is nothing appalling.

Plus, it gave us Emcee's shop of Skull Face in a bear rug.
 
Ocelot loves Big Boss and he is just a normal, almost well adjusted torturer when he is around him. Without BB he just goes crazy and starts blustering and spinning revolvers.

MGS3 doesn't count because that was the part where Ocelot fell in love with BB.
 
Ralemont said:
? He clearly didn't forget or he wouldn't have Code Talker mention getting pieces of the end. The bombs blew up, no corpse left behind, mission accomplished. Too bad little bits are still useful for Code Talker's purposes.

I honestly think it's the people looking for plot holes who are trying too hard with this one.
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Does anyone here have a transcript of what Code Talker says? I remember him saying "I got word of the body of an old man."

Either way, it doesn't really matter, because the bombs were to make sure they couldn't be studied. It's why they activated in the case of either capture or death.
 
ElFly said:
Ocelot loves Big Boss and he is just a normal, almost well adjusted torturer when he is around him. Without BB he just goes crazy and starts blustering and spinning revolvers.

MGS3 doesn't count because that was the part where Ocelot fell in love with BB.
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I wonder if Ocelot is just weirder the more roles he's playing. Wasn't he, like, a triple agent in MGS3? And then there's the whole Liquid persona in MGS4.

In MGSV, he hypnotizes himself into thinking he's with the man around which he doesn't need to put on an act. So while he's tricking himself, again, he's tricking himself into being himself the way he is when he's NOT trying to trick others.

(Haha, that was fun to write)

SO, maybe this brilliant guy who always came off like an oddball... Really isn't an oddball when he's just himself.

I know that's not satisfying and will strike the fans as character assassination, and perhaps it is, but it's not implausible as best I can tell.

Either way, I'm not a fan of new Ocelot and I'm not a fan of old Ocelot either. I like the concept but I think there must be a happy medium between "completely crazy" and "sober as a judge."
 
For someone who loves Big Boss he sure gives me a lot of sass at some of the people I choose to extract.

"You're taking him?"

"yeah he's fucking S ranked in like three things" I wanna say
 
Golnei said:
At least in Raiden's case, it was more to do with the special attention Solidus gave him rather than his ~genetic superiority~. In retrospect, having him not be white might have been a better idea; they would have barely had to change anything in MGS2 beyond one of his nicknames, being voiced by Phil LaMarr instead of Flynn and having Ames mistake him for Fortune instead of Olga.

I wonder how different the reaction to Raiden would have been in the Western fanbase if that were the case...
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That was before the ganguro revolution, the east would hate him.
 
danm999 said:
For someone who loves Big Boss he sure gives me a lot of sass at some of the people I choose to extract.

"You're taking him?"

"yeah he's fucking S ranked in like three things" I wanna say
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Kaz frequently said "You gonna extract him" after I had already extracted the guy. Did this happen for other people, too? I think it's a glitch.

Or maybe Kaz is being rhetorical. Goddammit Kaz.
 
danm999 said:
For someone who loves Big Boss he sure gives me a lot of sass at some of the people I choose to extract.

"You're taking him?"

"yeah he's fucking S ranked in like three things" I wanna say
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Some of the line reads are just bad. It sounds like they just took the first take and didn't record enough variations, so it all just sounds sarcastic.

It's obvious why they wanted to switch to ambient dialogue but god they did it so badly.
 
Neiteio said:
Kaz frequently said "You gonna extract him" after I had already extracted the guy. Did this happen for other people, too? I think it's a glitch.

Or maybe Kaz is being rhetorical. Goddammit Kaz.
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Yeah some of the VO stuff in the game is....a weird read.

Like everytime I destroy an air detector.

"You destroyed the enemies anti-air detection!?"

And to be so reverent at that after I've done it 50 times gets funny.
 
ShockingAlberto said:
Does anyone here have a transcript of what Code Talker says? I remember him saying "I got word of the body of an old man."

Either way, it doesn't really matter, because the bombs were to make sure they couldn't be studied. It's why they activated in the case of either capture or death.
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When they put the bombs on during ww2, people didn't know about dna sequencing and stuff; by the time code talker comes around, whatever little tissue sample they could get from The End could be studied with successful results.

It is impossible for a microbomb to actually completely atomize the cobra units into nothingness. They thought it was enough during ww2, but later science made this moot.
 
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