Multiple fatalities reported at Umpqua Community College shooting in Oregon

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Jonm1010 said:
Leave it to the mainstream media to consistently miss the mark of where the discussion should be. Anonymity on the internet wouldn't of prevented or lessened the death toll at Sandy Hook or Columbine....tougher gun laws probably would of.
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Like Garret Graves is going to vote for background checks in a R+19 district. Cedric Richmond would however.
 
It's absolutely horrifying that this sort of stuff is happening on a regular basis :/ But you know, we can't have any gun control because we have gun nuts thinking any form of gun control is some unreasonable thing.
 
Mass Effect said:
I really don't know what to say anymore. I mean I could be outraged and demand gun control laws, but what's the point? Nothing will happen. Nothing will change. At this point, the only I can think is the sooner I get out of this country, the better.
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Yeah, the country can't even have a proper discussion about it without lunatics shouting it down. Luckily we managed to avoid that in the UK.
 
You know, the more I ponder about this, I wonder what reasonable solution we can make about the mess of not only guns being used to take life on incredibly poorly ground, but how we handle those conditioned and validated to do such actions.

Assuming the shooter wasn't killed and was still alive, how would one be reasonably punished? Our answers seem to be incredibly faulty, for they run on an unconscious principle that people have free will, which a Christian nation like America may naturally assume is so, but under inspection, such beliefs hold no ground. Throwing people in jail does not change the fact one, ultimately, is not a doer of deeds. It does not deal with the growing elements that can condition the mind of an individual to go down such a path, so any solution we wish to sincerely propose as reasonable has a very heavy hill to climb over.

Barring guns is not the be all end all. It may help, and I do not deny this, but we should also be looking into what "grows" this type of mental behavior in an individual, to be driven by such thoughts. Throwing the "crazies" in prison or cheering after they're dead does not eliminate the fact such people are results of deeper phenomena, and that's something we're almost scared to admit. And just dealing with the weapon such people use does not change the fact these people are a result of various factors beyond the firearm in their hands.
 
Kama_1082 said:
I like my guns and I'm a law abiding citizen. Why would I want to give up my right to own a firearm that's afforded to me by the 2nd amendment?
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Would you give up your guns if it somehow guaranteed no more gun violence in America? And don't answer with "that's impossible". Answer as if it were possible.
 
Walpurgis said:
It would be sick if they took control of the channel and started airing some creepy V for Vendetta shit.
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dscg6CC.gif
 
Foffy said:
You know, the more I ponder about this, I wonder what reasonable solution we can make about the mess of not only guns being used to take life on incredibly poorly ground, but how we handle those conditioned and validated to do such actions.

Assuming the shooter wasn't killed and was still alive, how would one be reasonably punished? Our answers seem to be incredibly faulty, for they run on an unconscious principle that people have free will, which a Christian nation like America may naturally assume is so, but under inspection, such beliefs hold no ground. Throwing people in jail does not change the fact one, ultimately, is not a doer of deeds. It does not deal with the growing elements that can condition the mind of an individual to go down such a path, so any solution we wish to sincerely propose as reasonable has a very heavy hill to climb over.

Barring guns is not the be all end all. It may help, and I do not deny this, but we should also be looking into what "grows" this type of mental behavior in an individual, to be driven by such thoughts. Throwing the "crazies" in prison or cheering after they're dead does not eliminate the fact such people are results of deeper phenomena, and that's something we're almost scared to admit. And just dealing with the weapon such people use does not change the fact these people are a result of various factors beyond the firearm in their hands.
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Thankfully the people that are pushing gun control are also typically the people that are advocating for things like true universal healthcare including stronger mental health coverage and support. Also the same people that would like to increase money in education and government research where a bulk of the research into mental healthcare gets done.

I dont hate the "its a mental health issue" people except if that is their argument and nothing else. Especially when it is used as a shield to deflect any discussion of gun control which is a huge component as well. Arguably much larger in terms of preventing gun deaths and these mass shootings.
 
weekev said:
I thought America was a Democracy. Why cant you guys hold a referendum on gun laws?
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Because our elected representatives won't do it. You think we haven't tried? We had a bunch of kindies and 1st graders gunned down and overwhelming support for improved gun laws, and nothing happened.

At this point there's no hope. I mean it has to be an incident that is more horrific than anything we've seen to get the ball rolling on it.
 
Bill Hicks said:
England, where no one has guns: 14 deaths. United States, and I think you know how we feel about guns - whoo! I'm gettin' a stiffy! - 23,000 deaths from handguns. But there's no connection, and you'd be a fool and a communist to make one. There's no connection between having a gun and shooting someone with it, and not having a gun and not shooting someone.
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One of my favorite comedians.
Link here - Relentless Tour
From 1991. Should have listened...
 
Allforce said:
You can see the "should we allow ANONYMITY on the internet?" story slowly forming over the course of this CNN program...
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I don't care what one's opinion on it is, but it's been the root of a number of very high-profile incidents. It's simply impossible to deny this. This past year in particular has been very controversial.

It's a discussion worth having at this point. I'm sick of this shit. There's nothing in the First Amendment that promises internet anonymity, nor anything that immunizes someone from the consequences of their actions online. Private websites are allowed their own terms of service. 99% of people who cry foul of their "rights" being violated online do not understand this. All you are afforded is protection from the Government squelching you in areas of US jurisdiction.

Worth noting that I am willing to admit to some personal bias on the matter because I feel like I've matured more than enough to never feel like I "need" 100% anonymity.
 
Foffy said:
Barring guns is not the be all end all. It may help, and I do not deny this, but we should also be looking into what "grows" this type of mental behavior in an individual, to be driven by such thoughts. Throwing the "crazies" in prison or cheering after they're dead does not eliminate the fact such people are results of deeper phenomena, and that's something we're almost scared to admit. And just dealing with the weapon such people use does not change the fact these people are a result of various factors beyond the firearm in their hands.
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lol. We already know.

Poor mental health, poor mental health care screening and care, bullying, abuse, anger, depression, isolation, poverty, regret, projection, a variety of mental disorders, and easy access to weapons of mass killing.

There are groups, organizations, task forces, and billions of dollars pouring into the research and better treatment of almost all of the above.

You know what isn't getting billions of dollars that is also extremely likely to result in the reduction of gun deaths in America? Stricter gun laws and real efforts towards removal of semi-automatic guns from the clutches of the masses. Instead we have people in power requesting we gather more data and look at "mental health", then said ignoring data and voting down legislation once created... and we have organizations with money threatening political hanging by noose.

Our politicians are more worried about their careers than the people they are sworn to act in the best interests of, popular or unpopular. We will never be free of this bullshit and it will be remembered as one of our many great national shames.
 
aspiegamer said:
I don't care what one's opinion on it is, but it's been the root of a number of very high-profile incidents. It's simply impossible to deny this. This past year in particular has been very controversial.

It's a discussion worth having at this point. I'm sick of this shit. There's nothing in the First Amendment that promises internet anonymity, nor anything that immunizes someone from the consequences of their actions online. Private websites are allowed their own terms of service. 99% of people who cry foul of their "rights" being violated online do not understand this. All you are afforded is protection from the Government squelching you in areas of US jurisdiction.

Worth noting that I am willing to admit to some personal bias on the matter because I feel like I've matured more than enough to never feel like I "need" 100% anonymity.
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Mature but naive it seems.
 
aspiegamer said:
I don't care what one's opinion on it is, but it's been the root of a number of very high-profile incidents. It's simply impossible to deny this. This past year in particular has been very controversial.

It's a discussion worth having at this point. I'm sick of this shit. There's nothing in the First Amendment that promises internet anonymity, nor anything that immunizes someone from the consequences of their actions online. Private websites are allowed their own terms of service. 99% of people who cry foul of their "rights" being violated online do not understand this. All you are afforded is protection from the Government squelching you in areas of US jurisdiction.

Worth noting that I am willing to admit to some personal bias on the matter because I feel like I've matured more than enough to never feel like I "need" 100% anonymity.
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The question is more that would removing anonymity change anything?

People are shitheels whether or not their names are attached. It's about being behind a computer more than anything.
 
When is America going to do something about this? Is something ever going to be done? What would it take at this point?
 
aspiegamer said:
I don't care what one's opinion on it is, but it's been the root of a number of very high-profile incidents. It's simply impossible to deny this. This past year in particular has been very controversial.

It's a discussion worth having at this point. I'm sick of this shit. There's nothing in the First Amendment that promises internet anonymity, nor anything that immunizes someone from the consequences of their actions online. Private websites are allowed their own terms of service. 99% of people who cry foul of their "rights" being violated online do not understand this. All you are afforded is protection from the Government squelching you in areas of US jurisdiction.

Worth noting that I am willing to admit to some personal bias on the matter because I feel like I've matured more than enough to never feel like I "need" 100% anonymity.
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Anonymity is kicking the can down the road. You're aiming at the wrong horse.

There is no free will in an individual. Very hard for us to wrap our heads around, but ultimately one is not an outsider to what happens of itself, and this is everything that exists. Internet anonymity rights have fuck all to do with the fact what we're talking about are the results of conditioning that create action. The key is to deal with what causes the results, which your post missed. It's still another "deal with it before it results in something bad" scenario, which is already too late for individuals to be conditioned out of malicious, empirically incorrect views of the world.

Think of the mind as jelly. Actions, habits, and conditioning are like hot water being poured over it, melting some of the jelly as it goes along. Eventually the jelly will naturally make channels for the water to flow, like grooves. For a person carried along a trail that infers malice, hatred, and division in a negative sense, those grooves may be firmly made in one's mind. We should be dealing with what results in the mind molding that way and not dealing with aftermath results from that, which is what your claim about anonymity would be dealing with. It's essentially a "getting rid of the guns ends the problem" kind of argument.

We can deal with guns and potential claims online, yes, but it seems this is where people think all of our attention should be. We'd still be only dealing with intended actions but never the consciousness being formed to produce it.

Dreams-Visions said:
lol. We already know.

Poor mental health, poor mental health care screening and care, bullying, abuse, anger, depression, isolation, poverty, regret, projection, a variety of mental disorders, and easy access to weapons of mass killing.

There are groups, organizations, task forces, and billions of dollars pouring into the research and better treatment of almost all of the above.

You know what isn't getting billions of dollars that is also extremely likely to result in the reduction of gun deaths in America? Stricter gun laws and real efforts towards removal of semi-automatic guns from the clutches of the masses. Instead we have people in power requesting we gather more data and look at "mental health", then said ignoring data and voting down legislation once created... and we have organizations with money threatening political hanging by noose.

Our politicians are more worried about their careers than the people they are sworn to act in the best interests of, popular or unpopular. We will never be free of this bullshit and it will be remembered as one of our many great national shames.
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Do you believe that tackling the gun problem ends the issue? Sure, it will deal with it, but the line of thought that leads one to commit shootings would still be there, and is still the larger problem. Get rid of the guns and someone who wants to actively kill others will try to do it another way. This isn't to say to not deal with guns, but our attention should be more focused on what produces these killers, not getting their toys out of their hand. The latter is important, but ending the former methodology is key. This is also underfunded like fuck.

clay_ghost said:
News like this makes me afraid of travelling to the US. You people are suppose to be a progressive 1st world country...
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You have a fucking terrible opinion of America if you even believe a modicum of that claim in terms of praise and reason. We're largely first world in terms of economy which isn't even working for the people anymore, and that's where it ends for most of the population.
 
clay_ghost said:
News like this makes me afraid of travelling to the US. You people are suppose to be a progressive 1st world country...
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honestly I wish I could move out. the people here disgust me more and more every time we have a mass shooting or a presidential election.

but...this is home. everyone I love is here.
 
DJ SLEV3N said:
Great "I told you so" speech Obama. Good job on making it about guns and not the actual victims or families.
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It IS about guns. Gun nuts want to make it about anything else because they know, deep down in their hearts, that their toys of choice kill thousands of people a year, and that eventually the rest of us are going to get pissed off enough to do something about it.
 
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