President Obama Is Pissed (Oregon Shooting Press Conference)

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Mr_Antimatter said:
Gun control is a non starter, due to the rapid 2nd amendment is best amendment folks.

Heck, the Sheriff handing this investigation sent the vice president a angry letter denouncing gun control after Newtown: http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2015/10/oregon-sheriff-umpqua-massacre-white-house-gun-control-newtown
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He honestly thought that the administration would attempt to "amend the amendment?" Does he know how impossible that is? Also, if they magically do amend the amendment, his "orders" wouldn't be unconstitutional anymore.

These people are infuriating.

"Don't exploit these children's deaths." No, ya dingus. We're trying to figure out how to keep other kids from dying.
 
And again why America needs actual gun control. People who don't think so are ridiculous.

bill1148 said:
The real problem is mental illness. Not guns.
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Every country has mental illness. Where are all the other mass shootings then? This argument is so stupid.
 
Mysterious said:
I don't know how it works in America, but in Canada, parliament has a leading minority or majority composition of the winning party, aka the Prime Minister. Since there are essentially two parties in the US, wouldn't the majority of congress be democratic? Why wouldn't they support their leader then?
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The US does not have a parliamentary system. It has a presidential system.


In Canada, you have a parliamentary system, meaning the chief executive of your country is appointed by the legislature. In America's presidential system, the chief executive, the president, is directly voted upon by the people.

The US has a bicameral legislature - the House and the Senate. Each state gets two senators - the power is divided equally among the fifty states in the senate. In the house, each state is given a different number of representatives, according to its population (though each state gets at least one representative). Each state chooses how to divide up its representatives (most draw up geographical boundaries for their congressional districts, and the people within each district vote for their representative) Both the House and the Senate pass legislation. Legislation only gets enacted if it is approved by both 50% of both chambers of the legislature (although the president does have the power to veto the bill and send it back to the legislature, in which case, 2/3rds of each chamber must approve the legislature to override the president's veto).

There are some differences in powers between the two chambers of the legislature, most of them belonging to the Senate. For instance, all revenue bills must originate in the house of representatives. All international treaties and federal judicial appointments or executive appointments (head of agencies, etc) must be ratified/approved by the Senate (But not the house).


The entire House of Representatives is up for election every 2 years (even years)
Senators are elected to 6 year terms - every 2 years, roughly 1/3rd of the senators are up for election (also even years), so the entire Senate is never up for grabs. No state has both of its senators' terms end at the same time, so it's always a rolling representation of the state's politics.

Since you need both chambers to pass legislation, this effectively means that 2/3rds of the legislative power is up for election every 2 years ([50% * 100% of the house] + [50% * 33% of the senate])

The President is elected to 4 year terms, and elections are also held on even years.


Note: Senators used to be appointed directly by the state governors, but have been directly elected by the state populations ever since the 17th amendment was ratified.
 
neogaffer1 said:
nah bruh, checks and balances and shit.

closest to that is vp is leader of the house or senate or some shit but even then they don't get any real power outside of some beauracratic power.
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VP is president of the Senate and can vote to break ties. That's probably closer to what he's thinking of.

Of course, even then that doesn't really happen in practice because Republicans abuse the filibuster (a procedural tactic that blocks legislation from moving through the chamber unless 60% of the Senate votes to invoke cloture).
 
obama is right. Mass shootings are a routine in america and they dint hapoen that often in other advanced countries... It so happens that other countries have gunlaws... Coincidence?
 
bill1148 said:
The real problem is mental illness. Not guns.
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From Vox's 11 facts about gun violence in the United States:

10. A tiny fraction of gun violence is committed by the mentally ill

In discussions of mass shootings, the topic of mental illness regularly comes up, often paired with pleas to improve mental health services instead of or in addition to gun control measures. While the mental health care system in the United States is abysmal and in desperate need of more funding, this is a bit of misleading connection to draw.

For one thing, mass shootings are a tiny percentage of the overall homicide problem and should not be blown out of proportion. But more importantly, our violent crime problem really has little to do with mental illness. Columbia's Paul Appelbaum and Duke's Jeffrey Swanson concluded that "only 3%-5% of violent acts are attributable to serious mental illness, and most do not involve guns." Similarly, a study in Sweden found that only 5.2 percent of violent crimes were committed by people with serious mental illness.

That doesn't mean that certain types of mental illness aren't risk factors for violence. A National Institute of Mental Health study found that 16 percent of people with serious mental illness (such as schizophrenia or bipolar disorder) commit a serious act of violence in their lifetime, compared with 7 percent of the general population. But anxiety disorders didn't increase one's risk of committing violence at all.

Much more important as a factor is drug and alcohol abuse; Cornell psychiatrist Richard Friedman notes that the same NIMH study found that "people with no mental disorder who abused alcohol or drugs were nearly seven times as likely as those without substance abuse to commit violent acts." A Mayors Against Illegal Drugs analysis of mass shootings found a much stronger connection to domestic violence than to mental illness.
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Nothing will change, and we will see a new shooting in a month or two. Gun ownership is how America chooses to roll, and it's their country.
 
bill1148 said:
The real problem is mental illness. Not guns.
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Please name any other violent crime where the most prudent action is for the government to throw up their hands and go "welp, can't do nuthin' about it, it's all up to the population to just stop being crazy enough to commit these crimes".
 
Lod7 said:
How can one incident cause such a fast response from one country but not the US.
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God money. Guns are a part of the country's bloodstream, and that's fine, but there is immense lobbying resistance to absolutely any deviation from the status quo. In fact the NRA seeks even fewer restrictions than currently exist.

bobbytkc said:
You cannot stop people from going crazy, you can stop crazy people from getting guns. Hence, gun control.
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Well put.

Do we know how this shooter got their arms?
 
Lod7 said:
Can someone explain to me the difference between how the UK's/Australia's way of running the gov't is different from the US.

How can one incident cause such a fast response from one country but not the US.
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I suspect it is because no other country in the world has an entire industry of selling firearms at supermarkets all across the nation.
 
And nothing will get done because the people are powerless against a well oiled corporate owned America.
 
Henrar said:
Well, Europe also has mass shootings in the recent history. They arę not as common as in the US, but they do happen.
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I can name Breivik shooting in Norway and Charlie Hebdo shooting. I can't name other recent mass shootings that happened in Europe.
 
Henrar said:
Well, Europe also has mass shootings in the recent history. They arę not as common as in the US, but they do happen.
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Oh please. Thats no defence there is no comparison. Europe the WHOLE of Europe has had 2 mass shootings with a total of 9 fatalities 2 of which were the shooters in the last 2 years. The US has this beat by a very long mile. This has been the 994th mass shooting in 3 years for the US.
 
Unbelievable that US citizens and even the president are completely and utterly powerless against the powers that be. Your democracy is a sham.

Land of the free, how sad.
 
GaimeGuy said:
The US does not have a parliamentary system. It has a presidential system.


In Canada, you have a parliamentary system, meaning the chief executive of your country is appointed by the legislature. In America's presidential system, the chief executive, the president, is directly voted upon by the people.

The US has a bicameral legislature - the House and the Senate. Each state gets two senators - the power is divided equally among the fifty states in the senate. In the house, each state is given a different number of representatives, according to its population (though each state gets at least one representative). Each state chooses how to divide up its representatives (most draw up geographical boundaries for their congressional districts, and the people within each district vote for their representative) Both the House and the Senate pass legislation. Legislation only gets enacted if it is approved by both 50% of both chambers of the legislature (although the president does have the power to veto the bill and send it back to the legislature, in which case, 2/3rds of each chamber must approve the legislature to override the president's veto).

There are some differences in powers between the two chambers of the legislature, most of them belonging to the Senate. For instance, all revenue bills must originate in the house of representatives. All international treaties and federal judicial appointments or executive appointments (head of agencies, etc) must be ratified/approved by the Senate (But not the house).


The entire House of Representatives is up for election every 2 years (even years)
Senators are elected to 6 year terms - every 2 years, roughly 1/3rd of the senators are up for election (also even years), so the entire Senate is never up for grabs. No state has both of its senators' terms end at the same time, so it's always a rolling representation of the state's politics.

Since you need both chambers to pass legislation, this effectively means that 2/3rds of the legislative power is up for election every 2 years ([50% * 100% of the house] + [50% * 33% of the senate])

The President is elected to 4 year terms, and elections are also held on even years.


Note: Senators used to be appointed directly by the state governors, but have been directly elected by the state populations ever since the 17th amendment was ratified.
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Thank you. This post is very informative but the system is very unintuitive. I don't think I'll remember much of it. :/
 
bill1148 said:
The real problem is mental illness. Not guns.
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Hey maybe you're right, maybe that IS the biggest problem. May I see your outlined plan on how to limit the mentally ill having access to deadly weapons? Or your plan on how to identify and treat mental illness en masse?

I support gun rights btw. I just also support trying SOMETHING, ANYTHING to try and fix this problem. This problem that is costing scores and scores of Americans, mostly children and young people, their lives.
 
Its time for Politicians who care to play some hardball with the mental health reasoning stuff.

Develop and Present a comprehensive Mental Health and Treatment bill. Go to the public and say mental health is so bad and these people say we need to focus on that so here we are.
 
I'd be great if conservatives said it's not the guns fault but we should have free Healthcare in regards to mental illness but thats not going to happen. Instead Moar guns!
 
Every time this happens I wonder what level of death would trigger a reform.

-An entire graduating class of +100 fatalities?

-Simultaneous NRA meetings totalling +300 fatalities?

-Attack on Congress and throughout Washington +1000 fatalities

There shouldn't be a numeric value we are just waiting to happen to force us to reform gun laws the way the terrorism changed America when we lost +3000.
 
Caddywompus said:
Every time this happens I wonder what level of death would trigger a reform.

-An entire graduating class of +100 fatalities?

-Simultaneous NRA meetings totalling +300 fatalities?

-Attack on Congress and throughout Washington +1000 fatalities

There shouldn't be a numeric value we are just waiting to happen to force us to reform gun laws the way the terrorism changed America when we lost +3000.
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It would have to be an attack on congress.
Edit: I know the NSA is reading this. Please don't raid me.
 
Has there been any response from the presidential candidates? How will this affect the election?
Ape said:
Yikes
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There's a guy on NeoGAF who does the same thing (stockpiles on weapons and ammo). He's the one with the avatar of a toy wearing sunglasses and sombrero. It's very scary.
 
bill1148 said:
The real problem is mental illness. Not guns.
Click to expand...

Right now it's only the easy access to weapon that cause these tragedies. Once upon a time It might have been different. But now, if you're mad at the world and American and want to show your disdain for your fellow human beings: you shoot them with an easy access assault rifle. It's in the media, you get your message out there and you open the gate for more people to follow in your footsteps.
 
I'm glad I live in Australia where thanks to stringent gun laws, gun crime is low. Now, after the Port Arthur massacre, the Australian Government didn't ban guns, but reformed gun laws to put the safety of the society front and center.

People can still apply for a gun(s) for hunting and club/sport shooting and they match the caliber of the weapon to the activity you were applying for. Also, good luck applying for a license if you had a criminal record, and if you are eligible to buy a gun, there's a 30 day period (I can't remember exactly) waiting period from the date of sale.

I'm sorry but the current state of gun laws and gun related deaths in America is a joke. A total tragic joke. People with guns are killing people and the usual idiots circle-jerking in their echo chambers sit back and refuse to acknowledge that the proliferation of weapons and the ease of access to such weapons of varying calibers and deadliness is a main (if not THE MAIN) contributor to all the senseless deaths across the States.

These same asshats are now condemning Obama for politicising it? Damn straight he is, and were I in his shoes, I would have used far far stronger language.
 
Walpurgis said:
Thank you. This post is very informative but the system is very unintuitive. I don't think I'll remember much of it. :/
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It's supposed to be. Checks and balances are built into the system to prevent one branch of the government from dominating the other and to ensure that change is slow, which is what the founders wanted. The originators of the Constitution did not trust democracy very much - what they wanted was a republic with tempered democratic power.
 
kinoki said:
Right now it's only the easy access to weapon that cause these tragedies. Once upon a time It might have been different. But now, if you're mad at the world and American and want to show your disdain for your fellow human beings: you shoot them with an easy access assault rifle. It's in the media, you get your message out there and you open the gate for more people to follow in your footsteps.
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Handguns are the problem. Handguns are never addressed. Boogie Man weapons are instead demonized
 
antonz said:
Handguns are the problem. Handguns are never addressed. Boogie Man weapons are instead demonized
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Okay, I'll agree with you: any weapon designed to hurt other people is the problem.
 
Bodacious said:
That's all good stuff, but why stick the 'assault weapon ban' business back in there? It's like adding a poison pill on purpose. We know those weapons don't play any appreciable role in total firearms death statistics, and as a package that proposal would be much more likely to fly without it.
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Because they looked up the definition of "Assault" and it didn't mean peace like people told them
 
antonz said:
Handguns are the problem. Handguns are never addressed. Boogie Man weapons are instead demonized
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I agree that handguns are more of a problem. They're much easier to conceal and many more deaths are caused by handguns than rifles.
 
Chaos2Frozen said:
I was hoping he would go even more all out with his anger and frustration....

"You DUMB motherfuckers!"

...Or something.
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Well he pretty much did...

Earlier this year, I answered a question in an interview by saying, “The United States of America is the one advanced nation on Earth in which we do not have sufficient common-sense gun-safety laws — even in the face of repeated mass killings.” And later that day, there was a mass shooting at a movie theater in Lafayette, Louisiana. That day! Somehow this has become routine. The reporting is routine. My response here at this podium ends up being routine. The conversation in the aftermath of it. We’ve become numb to this.
We talked about this after Columbine and Blacksburg, after Tucson, after Newtown, after Aurora, after Charleston. It cannot be this easy for somebody who wants to inflict harm on other people to get his or her hands on a gun.
And what’s become routine, of course, is the response of those who oppose any kind of common-sense gun legislation. Right now, I can imagine the press releases being cranked out: We need more guns, they’ll argue. Fewer gun safety laws.
Does anybody really believe that? There are scores of responsible gun owners in this country –they know that’s not true. We know because of the polling that says the majority of Americans understand we should be changing these laws — including the majority of responsible, law-abiding gun owners.
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More or less.
 
Daily News out of NY usually shits the bed pretty hard with bad covers but they occasionally do something right
CQSejYlUsAAKF9t.jpg
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Earlier this year, I answered a question in an interview by saying, “The United States of America is the one advanced nation on Earth in which we do not have sufficient common-sense gun-safety laws — even in the face of repeated mass killings.” And later that day, there was a mass shooting at a movie theater in Lafayette, Louisiana. That day! Somehow this has become routine. The reporting is routine. My response here at this podium ends up being routine. The conversation in the aftermath of it. We’ve become numb to this.
We talked about this after Columbine and Blacksburg, after Tucson, after Newtown, after Aurora, after Charleston. It cannot be this easy for somebody who wants to inflict harm on other people to get his or her hands on a gun.
And what’s become routine, of course, is the response of those who oppose any kind of common-sense gun legislation. Right now, I can imagine the press releases being cranked out: We need more guns, they’ll argue. Fewer gun safety laws.
Does anybody really believe that? There are scores of responsible gun owners in this country –they know that’s not true. We know because of the polling that says the majority of Americans understand we should be changing these laws — including the majority of responsible, law-abiding gun owners.
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It is insane anyone finds any part of this quote unreasonable.
 
I've seen some graphs and I'm confused about something.

Has there been terrorism deaths since 9/11 on US soil? I figure there shouldn't be, or I haven't heard about it. I feel like some graphs are counting overseas military casualties.
 
Shining Sunshine said:
I've seen some graphs and I'm confused about something.

Has there been terrorism deaths since 9/11 on US soil? I figure there shouldn't be, or I haven't heard about it. I feel like some graphs are counting overseas military casualties.
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Boston marathon is one I remember straight away
 
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