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[GoldenEye 007]

Yea, toys used in organized ways are still toys.

They're used for competitive play.

Edit: oh and to kill people and for suicide.

To be fair, Japan has shown you don't need guns for suicide.

 

[DrForester]

Michael Savage implied yesterday that the shooting either didn't happen or was allowed to happen by the government.

I hate listen to him on the way home from work for the lulz.

I listened to his show once. That guy is nuts. Makes Limbaugh and Hannity sound rational people with well thought out views.

 

[Deleted member 13876]

It was corroborated by several eyewitnesses at the scene.

The words sure, but I'm not 100% certain the intent to aim differently based on the victims' answers can be fully ascertained or if it was entirely premeditated. There's an extremely high chance things are how they appear to be on the surface though. Unless he actually said, "if you're a Christian I will shoot you in the head, if not..." Did he?

 

[brainchild]

The words sure, but I'm not 100% certain the intent to aim differently based on the victims' answers can be fully ascertained or if it was entirely premeditated. There's an extremely high chance things are how they appear to be on the surface though. Unless he actually said, "if you're a Christian I will shoot you in the head, if not..." Did he?

Well, this would be an important distinction if he were on trial for pre-meditated murder, but he's dead, and considering the evidence, there isn't reasonable doubt (at least, in my opinion) to preclude the notion that he planned to carry out the murders in this way.

So not 100% certainty, no. But enough certainty to conclude that it was his intentions, at least in my opinion.

 

[Yrael]

Oh Jesus, SBS News (Australian program) apparently aired a picture of the wrong man last night - a music vlogger called Anthony Fantano.

Apparently he got mixed up because of comparisons being made on 4chan, which meant that his image shows up in a search for the murderer's name. He's not happy about it:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8AU5vonkXns

 

[BumblebeeCody]

Oh Jesus, SBS News (Australian program) apparently aired a picture of the wrong man last night - a music vlogger called Anthony Fantano.

Apparently he got mixed up because of comparisons being made on 4chan, which meant that his image shows up in a search for the murderer's name. He's not happy about it:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8AU5vonkXns

I watch him on YouTube too (TheNeedleDrop). Wow WTF, this is a huge problem for him now.

 

[Yrael]

I watch him on YouTube too (TheNeedleDrop). Wow WTF, this is a huge problem for him now.

Yeah, it must have been a very unpleasant shock, to put it mildly, for him to hear that his face had been broadcast to an entire country as a mass murderer. SBS World News is usually very good, too - this is a surprisingly terrible slip-up. They have since issued a note of correction:

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2015/10/03/correction-us-oregon-shooting-story

 

[Crud]

Why do this? Why do people want attention so bad? What was his life like before the shooting? No friends or family? I don't fucking understand it.

 

[Tarkus]

CNN claims he was a student in one of the classes he shot up.

 

[HeySeuss]

My Facebook feed is full of "gun free zones don't work" bullshit. But Oregon is one of 7 states that allow concealed carry on college campuses. Do we know for sure if it was a gun free zone or not? Not that it would matter one way or other but I was just wondering.

 

[Deleted member 13876]

My Facebook feed is full of "gun free zones don't work" bullshit. But Oregon is one of 7 states that allow concealed carry on college campuses. Do we know for sure if it was a gun free zone or not? Not that it would matter one way or other but I was just wondering.

I think it was said earlier here that there were actually people in the building carrying, but decided not to pull out their weapons to avoid getting shot at by the SWAT team amidst the chaos.

 

[Carnby]

My Facebook feed is full of "gun free zones don't work" bullshit. But Oregon is one of 7 states that allow concealed carry on college campuses. Do we know for sure if it was a gun free zone or not? Not that it would matter one way or other but I was just wondering.

There were some students who were carrying concealed guns on campus, but they didn't rush in playing John Wayne. They stayed in their class rooms and were ready to protect if the gun man came their way.

 

[HeySeuss]

I think it was said earlier here that there were actually people in the building carrying, but decided not to pull out their weapons to avoid getting shot at by the SWAT team amidst the chaos.

There were some students who were carrying concealed guns on campus, but they didn't rush in playing John Wayne. They stayed in their class rooms and were ready to protect if the gun man came their way.

Thanks! I was looking at their campus policies and procedures and was coming up empty.

 

[phazedplasma]

My Facebook feed is full of "gun free zones don't work" bullshit. But Oregon is one of 7 states that allow concealed carry on college campuses. Do we know for sure if it was a gun free zone or not? Not that it would matter one way or other but I was just wondering.

It was not a gun free zone. There were a bunch of students carrying, but they were smart and elected not to take action, because they (probably correctly) thought that the swat team would shoot them instead if they had guns drawn.

 

[Lonewolf_92]

The victims.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...tims-identified-lucero-alcaraz-rebecka-carnes

College students, a teacher and two emergency responders ranging in age from 18 to 67 were killed when a gunman opened fire on a writing class at Umpqua community college in Roseburg, Oregon, county officials announced on Friday.

The victims were identified as Lucero Alcaraz, 19; Quinn Glen Cooper, 18; Kim Saltmarsh Dietz, 59; Lucas Eibel, 18; Jason Dale Johnson, 33; Lawrence Levine, 67; Sarena Dawn Moore, 44; Treven Taylor Anspach, 20 and Rebecka Ann Carnes, 18.

None of the victims could have known that Thursday – just the fourth day of class – would be different, but it ended up being “the saddest day in the history of the college”, according to the interim leader of the college. Below is what we know about the victims.

Lucero Alcaraz, 19
A 2015 graduate of Roseburg high school, 19-year-old Alcaraz was named a UCC Scholar for the 2015-2016 academic year. UCC Scholars receive a full-time tuition scholarship for up to six consecutive terms.

Her family confirmed to ABC News that she had been killed in the shooting. Her 14-year-old sister, Eileen, told BuzzFeed News that Lucero was a great artist, loved to draw and was “the responsible one” of the six siblings.

Alcaraz received honors in college, and “would have been a great pediatric nurse”, her sister Maria Leticia said in a Facebook post. She said that she was “so proud” of Alcaraz, for her achievements, adding: “You were going to do great things love.”

Rebecka Ann Carnes, 18
Carnes, 18, was an aspiring dental hygienist, who started classes at Umpqua on Monday, according to the New York Times. Carnes worked at the Walmart Supercenter in Roseburg, according to a Walmart spokesman. She also played softball during high school.

Multiple people on Twitter spoke of her sunny disposition and positive outlook on life. On Facebook, her cousin wrote that she had the “biggest heart an amazing soul (sic)”.

“We are at a loss for words,” her father, who confirmed her death, told KATU.

Jeff Merkley, a Democratic US senator, paid tribute to Carnes, who was the great-granddaughter of a cousin.

“I cannot conceive of the brutality that has affected this community. This has touched my family directly. Rebecka graduated high school last spring and was beginning her community college education to explore her interest in pursuing a career in medical services. Rebecka’s beautiful spirit will be enormously missed.

“I was in Roseburg today to express solidarity with the community and to thank the first responders, civic leaders and medical personnel for their tremendous efforts under extremely stressful circumstances. I know that the hearts and prayers of all Oregonians are with all of the victims, their loved ones, and the entire Roseburg community.”

Quinn Glen Cooper, 18
In a statement, the Cooper family said their son was “funny, sweet, compassionate and such a wonderful loving person”. They said he loved to dance and voice act with his older brother, and was preparing to take the test to advance to a brown belt in karate next week.

“We send our condolences to all the families, who have been so tragically affected by this deranged gunman,” the statement said. “No one should ever have to feel the pain we are feeling.”

Jason Dale Johnson, 34
The 34-year-old had begun the semester in hopes of continuing his education after completing a six-month rehab program for drug abuse, Johnson’s mother Tonja Johnson Engel told NBC on Friday.

“He started Monday and he was so proud of what he had accomplished, and rightly so,” Johnson Engel said. “The other day he looked at me and hugged me and said, ‘Mom, how long have you been waiting for one of your kids to go to college?’ And I said, ‘Oh, about 20 years.’”

Tonja last saw her son when he kissed his mother before he left for class on Thursday morning, saying: “Love ya. I’ll see you this afternoon.”

A statement from Johnson’s family said he was “proud to be a Christian.”

“Jason’s mother said that Jason was proud of himself for enrolling in school, and so was his mom. They felt that Jason had finally found his path. His family says that he will be loved and missed.”

Lucas Eibel, 18
A statement from the Eibel family reads: “We have been trying to figure out how to tell everyone how amazing Lucas was, but that would take 18 years.”

Eibel, a graduate of Roseburg High School, was attending Umpqua on a Ford Family Foundation scholarship and was also a UCC Scholar. He was studying chemistry and loved FFA, volunteered at an animal shelter and played soccer.

Lawrence Levine
Levine was an assistant professor of English at Umpqua Community College. According to his LinkedIn profile, he graduated from the University of Oregon.

His Facebook page lists New York as his hometown. It also says that in the past he worked as a Fly Fishing Guide in Glide, Oregon and as a bartender at Wonder Bur Lounge & Cafe.

Levine lived alone in a rented cabin on the North Umpqua river and pursued diverse interests. Above all, he considered himself a writer. “He was the sweetest, most gentle, kind, thoughtful and creative person,” David Furman, a lifelong friend, told the Oregonian.

“My heart is broken He was intense and opinionated,” she said. “He loved Tom Waits, the blues and other types of music, going to concerts when he could or just listening to the radio. He also loved art and had strong opinions about what was good.” He wrote novels, none published, including Timber Town, a mystery set in the US north-west.

Not being published rankled Levine, said Joey Weiss, a close friend from Beverly Hills. “Writing was his passion,” Weiss said, adding that Levine looked the part, sporting a beard and pipe.

Kim Saltmarsh Dietz, 59
Dietz graduated from the Mission Viejo High School in California in 1974. She was 59 years old and worked at the Pyrenees Vineyard & Cellars as a “caretaker for many years along with her husband and current Vineyard Manager Eric Dietz”, according to a Facebook statement.

Carolyn Whitehorn, Dietz’s mother-in-law, told ABC that she was a student at the community college, along with her daughter who was not harmed.

Treven Anspach, 20
According to his Facebook page, Anspach worked at Roseburg Forest Products and was a 2014 graduate of Sutherlin high school. In his profile picture, Anspach is holding a fish; another shows him playing basketball.

His family paid tribute in a statement. “The Anspach family would like to thank everybody for their heartfelt thoughts and prayers during this most difficult time. Treven was one of the most positive young man always looking for the best in life. Treven was larger than life and brought out the best in those around him.”

Anspach played basketball for the Umpqua Riverhawks, the college’s basketball team.

The team’s coach, Daniel Leeworthy, said in a statement: “It is with great sadness and shock that Treven Anspach, a basketball player on our team, has passed away due to this shooting. We love him and will miss him greatly. All he wanted to do in life was to marry his high school sweetheart, be a firefighter like his dad, and to serve others. To me he was a friend and a coaches dream. He was a friend to everyone. Treven we will miss you deeply!”

Anspach was described as a quiet leader and one of the basketball team’s strongest players.

Shelton Jackson, a teammate, said Anspach was his mentor. “He always showed up first at practice and he showed me what it meant to be on the varsity team. He didn’t lead by being vocal, but by example.”

Sarena Dawn Moore, 44
Moore, a 44-year-old woman who lived in Myrtle Creek, graduated from high school in Reno, Nevada, according to her Facebook. She was a Seventh-day Adventist and had worked at the Oregon Conference of Seventh-day Adventists. Previously she lived in Sacramento, Hanford, and Hayfork, California.

Several of her photos on Facebook were of animals, including dogs and horses.

 

[Kinitari]

These are all breaking my heart, but this one

Jason Dale Johnson, 34
The 34-year-old had begun the semester in hopes of continuing his education after completing a six-month rehab program for drug abuse, Johnson’s mother Tonja Johnson Engel told NBC on Friday.

“He started Monday and he was so proud of what he had accomplished, and rightly so,” Johnson Engel said. “The other day he looked at me and hugged me and said, ‘Mom, how long have you been waiting for one of your kids to go to college?’ And I said, ‘Oh, about 20 years.’”

Tonja last saw her son when he kissed his mother before he left for class on Thursday morning, saying: “Love ya. I’ll see you this afternoon.”

A statement from Johnson’s family said he was “proud to be a Christian.”

“Jason’s mother said that Jason was proud of himself for enrolling in school, and so was his mom. They felt that Jason had finally found his path. His family says that he will be loved and missed.”

It just makes me so sad. He was on the path to bettering himself, he probably worked so hard to get here and then just...

 

[Lonewolf_92]

These are all breaking my heart, but this one



It just makes me so sad. He was on the path to bettering himself, he probably worked so hard to get here and then just...

I know what you mean. Especially in this area, which has pretty high drop out and drug use rates, seeing a guy rise above that to only to get murdered is just so tragic. So many of them had just started college, basically just started life after high school, on Monday only to have their lives taken from them on Thursday.

 

[Doctor Doom]

It was corroborated by several eyewitnesses at the scene.

did people actually keep saying they were christian after seeing and hearing what was said and done to those who said it earlier?

iirc, lying is an easily forgiven sin, so one would assume they'd lie by denying it if they hear the shooter say that and do such things.

 

[Deified Data]

did people actually keep saying they were christian after seeing and hearing what was said and done to those who said it earlier?

iirc, lying is an easily forgiven sin, so one would assume they'd lie by denying it if they hear the shooter say that and do such things.

He killed them no matter what they said. Why lie?

 

[Red Mage]

did people actually keep saying they were christian after seeing and hearing what was said and done to those who said it earlier?

iirc, lying is an easily forgiven sin, so one would assume they'd lie by denying it if they hear the shooter say that and do such things.

Sin is sin, mostly. The exception is denying Christ, which is what they wound have been doing. We don't do that.

I don't have a link, but my local news said that, among other things that he ranted about in his letter he left for the police was his hatred of blacks.

 

[ChouGoku]

did people actually keep saying they were christian after seeing and hearing what was said and done to those who said it earlier?

iirc, lying is an easily forgiven sin, so one would assume they'd lie by denying it if they hear the shooter say that and do such things.

IIIRC in the last days (which many Christians think we're in), its said that people will be executed for their faith, if you deny god to save your own life you are destined for hell no matter how much you repent. IIRC the "end times" are full of unforgivable sins

 

[Angelus Errare]

I'd deny jesus in a nanosecond if it meant staying alive. A quick prayer will erase that transgression.

 

[vas_a_morir]

IIIRC in the last days (which many Christians think we're in), its said that people will be executed for their faith, if you deny god to save your own life you are destined for hell no matter how much you repent. IIRC the "end times" are full of unforgivable sins

Damn, Peter must have been shook.

 

[Red Mage]

IIIRC in the last days (which many Christians think we're in), its said that people will be executed for their faith, if you deny god to save your own life you are destined for hell no matter how much you repent. IIRC the "end times" are full of unforgivable sins

The "end times" started with the Crucifixion. From a Biblical perspective, we are still in the "seventh day" as Peter and the writer of Hebrews state. There are also not a bunch of unforgivable sins either. Denying Christ Jesus or the Holy Spirit are it.

 

[SaganIsGOAT]

Well I found out a few of my facebook friends I made playing baseball in ND are Sandy Hook truthers and are real fast to freak out when you say something in a post as simple as, "I know we can do better with our gun laws." So gross...


I have the screencaps at least.

 

[Walpurgis]

Is there a place I can find a summary of what happened? Last I was here, there was some info from a deleted 4chan thread, now I'm hearing that the guy asked people for their religion before he shot them.

 

[Doctor Doom]

He killed them no matter what they said. Why lie?

Wasn't it shoot the leg(s) if not christian, shoot the head if christian? If that is the case there's much better chance at survival if you deny.

Also didn't one of the apostles deny being a follower of Jesus?

 

[RustyNails]

Is there a place I can find a summary of what happened? Last I was here, there was some info from a deleted 4chan thread, now I'm hearing that the guy asked people for their religion before he shot them.

He asked if they were Christian. If they said yes he shot them in head. If they said no he shot them in legs.

 

[Namikaze]

Wasn't it shoot the leg(s) if not christian, shoot the head if christian? If that is the case there's much better chance at survival if you deny.

Also didn't one of the apostles deny being a follower of Jesus?

Yeah, Peter denied Jesus 3 times (just as Jesus predicted).

 

[shanafan]

A copycat has threatened Philadelphia-based colleges with an attack at 2 PM.

http://www.aol.com/article/2015/10/...aing-grid7|main5|dl2|sec1_lnk3&pLid=417224367

 

[jrush64]

Look at that asshole saying please be real. What the hell is wrong with some people

 

[WinFonda]

The threat sounds really overwrought and fake. Please don't be real. And please report this en masse to the authorities, particularly if you're in the Philadelphia area.

Oh, nm, saw the link. Authorities already on it. Good, good.

 

[SigSig]

A copycat has threatened Philadelphia-based colleges with an attack at 2 PM.

http://www.aol.com/article/2015/10/...aing-grid7|main5|dl2|sec1_lnk3&pLid=417224367

rjen164497 41 minutes ago
Don't blame guns. Blame Obama. The leader sets the tone of the country.

 

[Messypandas]

And now these chan forums are going to filled with fake threats that are forwarded to authorities. Le sigh

 

[ido]

What is sad is that I wouldn't even be surprised anymore if something did happen.

What is the number again, 45 school shootings this year alone? Meanwhile, the entire continent of Europe has had... zero.

 

[mackattk]

What is the number again, 45 school shootings this year alone? Meanwhile, the entire continent of Europe has had... zero.

Shit happens, but what you gonna do?

 

[Arkeband]

IIIRC in the last days (which many Christians think we're in), its said that people will be executed for their faith, if you deny god to save your own life you are destined for hell no matter how much you repent. IIRC the "end times" are full of unforgivable sins

The old "Look how many martyrs we have!" rule.

So sickening.

 

[bill0527]

A copycat has threatened Philadelphia-based colleges with an attack at 2 PM.

http://www.aol.com/article/2015/10/...aing-grid7|main5|dl2|sec1_lnk3&pLid=417224367

Maybe deserves its own thread to warn Philly college-GAF?

 

[beasty]

And now these chan forums are going to filled with fake threats that are forwarded to authorities. Le sigh

Yea I got a lovely email about this threat from my school this morning. Im sure every college in the philly area is sending out emails too. Pretty crazy how much power those chan boards can have.

 

[ido]

Shit happens, but what you gonna do?

My facebook feed is full of this shit. I'm from Mississippi, so it's easy to imagine almost everyone is clinging to their guns lately. A real gem:

 

[mackattk]

My facebook feed is full of this shit. I'm from Mississippi, so it's easy to imagine almost everyone is clinging to their guns lately. A real gem:

Iti s pretty sad how many people think that a magical gun owner will pop up with incredible accuracy and stop a shooter in his or her tracks without getting a shot off.

What will happen is that people will freak out, have trouble getting their gun out of their holster, and if they shoot at all, it won't be anywhere close to the target. Cops undergo gun training a hell of a lot more than the general public, and all you need for a concealed permit is 10-15 hours of training. We all know how inaccurate shots cops can be, so I wouldn't want to be anywhere near someone who thinks they can save the day.

Something like this would probably happen:
Park One
Part Two

 

[SaganIsGOAT]

I live a few hours south of Roseburg so this news hit me really hard. I posted on Facebook about my sincere sadness and I quote, "It also makes me sad because I know we can do better with our gun laws :/ " That sparked a huge debate with the typical responses of "gun free zones", "arm everyone", "mental illness is the true issue" etc. I ended up deleting the post because it was just a shit flinging contest. I found this Rolling Stone article (this one http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/4-pro-gun-arguments-were-sick-of-hearing-20151001 ) and made a new post saying how all I was doing was expressing my sadness with a brief note that we can do better with our gun laws, and how it is sad that this Rolling Stone article hits on every post that was critical of mine. Anyways... here is what that post turned into...

Only God knows the truth was just a me being goofy at the end. They all unfriended me so I just blocked those pricks. Life goes on!

 

[Bleepey]

Iti s pretty sad how many people think that a magical gun owner will pop up with incredible accuracy and stop a shooter in his or her tracks without getting a shot off.

What will happen is that people will freak out, have trouble getting their gun out of their holster, and if they shoot at all, it won't be anywhere close to the target. Cops undergo gun training a hell of a lot more than the general public, and all you need for a concealed permit is 10-15 hours of training. We all know how inaccurate shots cops can be, so I wouldn't want to be anywhere near someone who thinks they can save the day.

Something like this would probably happen:
Park One
Part Two

Can the pro gun people please respond.

 

[vas_a_morir]

My facebook feed is full of this shit. I'm from Mississippi, so it's easy to imagine almost everyone is clinging to their guns lately. A real gem:

Yeah, pretty obtuse. How often are fully-auto guns used to commit crimes? I'd wager not often at all, because they are banned.

Guns are a huge money-making industry, and people don't want to stop making money, even though on a whole it's not good for the development of society. Sounds like slavery. I think things are changing, though. 20 years ago, guns were a foregone conclusion. Now, with news media being so pervasive, my generation is wising up. I am for the banning of all semi-auto weaponry.

 

[Deleted member 13876]

Iti s pretty sad how many people think that a magical gun owner will pop up with incredible accuracy and stop a shooter in his or her tracks without getting a shot off.

What will happen is that people will freak out, have trouble getting their gun out of their holster, and if they shoot at all, it won't be anywhere close to the target. Cops undergo gun training a hell of a lot more than the general public, and all you need for a concealed permit is 10-15 hours of training. We all know how inaccurate shots cops can be, so I wouldn't want to be anywhere near someone who thinks they can save the day.

Something like this would probably happen:
Park One
Part Two

That like-dislike ratio.

 

[CharlieDigital]

Iti s pretty sad how many people think that a magical gun owner will pop up with incredible accuracy and stop a shooter in his or her tracks without getting a shot off.

What will happen is that people will freak out, have trouble getting their gun out of their holster, and if they shoot at all, it won't be anywhere close to the target. Cops undergo gun training a hell of a lot more than the general public, and all you need for a concealed permit is 10-15 hours of training. We all know how inaccurate shots cops can be, so I wouldn't want to be anywhere near someone who thinks they can save the day.

Something like this would probably happen:
Park One
Part Two

Can the pro gun people please respond.

While I agree with the sentiment, this scenario set up has a weakness that allows criticism: it is purposefully designed to make it difficult for the participants by adding the helmet and the gloves. Without the helmet on in some of the cases, the participants would have better peripheral vision. Without the gloves on, some of the participants may have had better access to the holstered weapon. Also, the way the weapon was holstered and hidden under the shirt may or may not have been the preferred holstering location for those users, making it unfamiliar for them to access instinctively. It's not clear, but I'd assume that the instructor probably knows who has the weapon and it seems like in all cases, the person with the weapon is sitting in the same area of the class room if not the same exact seat, giving the instructor an advantage. Finally, knowing that this was a set up would have elevated their anxiety and changed their mindset from a "normal" state where they would not have been starting from a prolonged and elevated level of anticipation.

Helmet, gloves, and all factors considered, though, the participants would have likely made the same mistakes: not covering ("hero syndrome"?), tunnel vision, not considering collateral damage, etc.

To be clear, I'd believe that most people would have the same issues in real life scenarios; just pointing out the weaknesses of this experiment.

 

[Garlador]

That like-dislike ratio.

Says everything, really.

Considering the MILLIONS who watched the video, that's a lot of people who not only love their guns, but view the gun as a "first solution" tool.

 

[MattyG]

Some girl next to me in class today said "my dad won't let me go to church anymore because that shooter was targeting Christians."

Mindless panic is a hell of a thing.

 

[CharlieDigital]

Some girl next to me in class today said "my dad won't let me go to church anymore because that shooter was targeting Christians."

Mindless panic is a hell of a thing.

You know what, why aren't there more folks calling these types of events terrorism?

 

[Griss]

I can't be the only one who scans the thread title, gets to 'Multiple fatalities reported' and holds my breath thinking it's a new thread, can I? Has happened multiple times today.

Not asking anyone to change the thread title or anything, just that it says a lot about American gun violence at this point.