Sayonara 544p (Sayonara Umihara Kawase resolution unlock)

Durante said:
Changing the rendering resolution is never cost prohibitive.

I'd argue that slavishly recreating the non-native rendering solution of a console version is marginally more effort than simply rendering natively.
Click to expand...
Testing is. And with the budgets and especially near zero test budgets a lot of those ports get, the people actually responsible for these ports don't want to take that risk. It's much easier if you don't have to take responsibility for anything that might break.
 
Durante said:
Changing the rendering resolution is never cost prohibitive.

I'd argue that slavishly recreating the non-native rendering solution of a console version is marginally more effort than simply rendering natively.
Click to expand...

Do you have any idea why it happens so often for Japanese PC ports?
I guess it makes sense when you take a team that has only ever developed for consoles with a fixed resolution.. but that still really doesn't explain why they won't even look at other PC games for a reference.
 
Durante said:
direct4do7r.jpg


You know the drill:
  1. Sayonara Umihara Kawase got a PC port.
  2. It was locked to 960x544 (!) -- or at least that's what people thought (ok, that's actually novel, read the link below if you want to know what the "that's what people thought" part is all about).
  3. I fixed it.

Why is this interesting?
  • It's the first time GeDoSaTo does anything useful for a DX11 game.
  • It's a great platformer, and other than the resolution lock it's a decent port (very consistent 60 FPS framerate, no issues).
  • It's the debut of the new GeDoSaTo texture resolution upscaling option. Works like the one I did some time ago for PPSSPP.
Click to expand...

http://steamcommunity.com/id/Vosse/recommended/378750/
I was one of those people.
Counting empty un-rendered pixels vs captured screenshots certainly gave me that impression when rendering at non windowed resolution. (Considering the default is also windowed 960x544)

NOW, Agatsuma. Please patch this :(.

This was the biggest issue of this port. (though it's not the only one) And i'm sure they could do the same if they wanted.
It makes me worried for the other two games. Since they are SNES/PSX games.

Theonik said:
Testing is. And with the budgets and especially near zero test budgets a lot of those ports get, the people actually responsible for these ports don't want to take that risk. It's much easier if you don't have to take responsibility for anything that might break.
Click to expand...

Is this that typical Japanese quid pro no? They'd rather do nothing than risk something potentially bad happening? Making someone look stupid in the process?
I believe I saw it described once as
they are happy to sit on games and let them rot in Japan because they're too afraid to do *anything*.
Click to expand...
In Japanese companies, it's less risk for the manager NOT to license something. If he does and it fails, it's his fault for making the company look bad. If he does and it is successful, it's his fault. In most middle managers view it's lose/lose - so they do nothing and hold the status quo.
Click to expand...
 
BONKERS said:
http://steamcommunity.com/id/Vosse/recommended/378750/
I was one of those people.
Counting empty un-rendered pixels vs captured screenshots certainly gave me that impression.

NOW, Agatsuma. Please patch this :(.

This was the biggest issue of this port. (though it's not the only one) And i'm sure they could do the same if they wanted.
It makes me worried for the other two games. Since they are SNES/PSX games.
Click to expand...

The SNES game should be unproblematic since it's sprite-based and upscales easily, though the PSX one probably won't be pretty.
 
To be fair, they are basically indie developers, and this is their first release on PC. Blaming them like you do with Koei is not fair for their work, they can do better indeed, but still I think they don't have so much resources. But we should learn to understand case by case and stop this story of 30FPS and resolution-gate for EVERY Japanese games, I'm ok when we talk about giants software house which they have the possibilities to make good ports like Square and Koei, but with small indie developers... C'mon guys.
 
Ampsicora said:
To be fair, they are basically indie developers, and this is their first release on PC. Blaming them like you do with Koei is not fair for their work, they can do better indeed, but still I think they don't have so much resources. But we should learn to understand case by case and stop this story of 30FPS and resolution-gate for EVERY Japanese games, I'm ok when we talk about giants software house which they have the possibilities to make good ports like Square and Koei, but with small indie developers... C'mon guys.
Click to expand...

I'm a person with low standards, tbh the game running at 60 fps was fine by me, even though this stuff is just icing on the cake
(even though I detest literal icing)
for me, I really appreciate Durante's continued work on this stuff and I hope eventually other people will do his job for him and add this kind of thing before releasing a game.
 
Ampsicora said:
To be fair, they are basically indie developers, and this is their first release on PC. Blaming them like you do with Koei is not fair for their work, they can do better indeed, but still I think they don't have so much resources. But we should learn to understand case by case and stop this story of 30FPS and resolution-gate for EVERY Japanese games, I'm ok when we talk about giants software house which they have the possibilities to make good ports like Square and Koei, but with small indie developers... C'mon guys.
Click to expand...

I don't think one needs to "shit" on these small devs but the PC is the most popular indie platform after phones, it's not some kind of impenetrable black box for indies to work with. Variable resolution, at the very least, isn't an unreasonable demand from consumers.

I'm also way more forgiving if a dev reacts to critisism with a few patches. You can miss on the first try, but show you care.
 
Tons of Indie developers, even Japanese ones have a decent track record of getting it right when it comes to the basics. (And look Agatsuma got the framerate and performance right. But messed up just about everything else)

Bamco and the likes of Koei (Who started out in the PC business and has been making PC ports of various kinds for well over a decade with the warriors games. That were not very common releases until the last few years) get zero leeway from me. They should know better by now. Especially at least when it comes to resolution. They are painting themselves into a corner by not offering arbitrary resolution support for at least the single AR the game is designed with. It's not forward thinking. (Especially so when you add in the lack of care for proper AA put into any of these games)

Bamco also has been porting various games to PCs for over almost 15 years now. Pac-Man World 2 came out in 2002. Pac-Man World Rally came out in 2005 and has no problems supporting resolutions like 1080p or 60FPS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ONksgVKjaw
I don't know whether PMW 2 or 3 run at 60FPS though. I don't have them. It'd be interesting to see.

It's 2015, there is no reason to be developing for the PC platform, releasing on Steam and living in this bubble. Japanese or not.
YianGaruga said:
The SNES game should be unproblematic since it's sprite-based and upscales easily, though the PSX one probably won't be pretty.
Click to expand...

That's the problem, is that the scaling needs to be handled delicately on both. More so on the SNES because of the non-square PAR.

Blurry bilinear crap we do not need.
 
I used to give developers a free ride, but I just can't do it anymore. Not when doing a much better job would be so easy for them. I mean, if I can do it without source access in a few hours, with source access it should literally be less than an hour of work.

Theonik said:
Testing is. And with the budgets and especially near zero test budgets a lot of those ports get, the people actually responsible for these ports don't want to take that risk. It's much easier if you don't have to take responsibility for anything that might break.
Click to expand...
I really think that's a pathological degree of risk averseness.

Creating a port your goal shouldn't be to slavishly recreate exactly the other version -- including all its drawbacks -- but rather do the best possible job for the new platform. And supporting arbitrary rendering resolutions is basically always trivial in 3D games.

Changing the rendering resolution also isn't really something that can cause subtle gameplay bugs which only appear after hours of testing and are hard to resolve.
 
Durante said:
I really think that's a pathological degree of risk averseness.

Creating a port your goal shouldn't be to slavishly recreate exactly the other version -- including all its drawbacks -- but rather do the best possible job for the new platform. And supporting arbitrary rendering resolutions is basically always trivial in 3D games.

Changing the rendering resolution also isn't really something that can cause subtle gameplay bugs which only appear after hours of testing and are hard to resolve.
Click to expand...
That is the problem though. A lot of the people and managers involved are just that, pathologically risk-averse. Doing these ports is already seen as very risky by Japanese devs and anything that involves interacting with foreigners basically gives them aneurysms.

And yes, normally it shouldn't cause many if any issues that are hard to resolve or spot fairly quickly unless you have effects not used until later down the line in your game which are hardcoded to your original target resolution. For gameplay I don't think many if any modern games will use shortcuts based on having a fixed resolution that could break but I can see how an overly risk-averse studio would want to make sure that is the case.
 
Love the work, but the added load times are a bit kinda intense, especially for a game that already needed to be faster in terms of retries. Is this something that can be fixed in a later version, or is it just part of the process?

Thanks for the work though, I was originally using Nvidia control panel to try and add some AA and it worked, but made things a bit blurry.
 
Vlaphor said:
Love the work, but the added load times are a bit kinda intense, especially for a game that already needed to be faster in terms of retries. Is this something that can be fixed in a later version, or is it just part of the process?
Click to expand...
Well, you can disable the texture scaling and get the exact same load times as the original, and still render at higher resolutions.

Also, I'll try to fix the parallelization of texture sampling soon, which should give you an ~N-times loading speedup on a N-core system.
 
Durante said:
Also, I'll try to fix the parallelization of texture sampling soon, which should give you an ~N-times loading speedup on a N-core system.
Click to expand...
I jsut pushed this, and also set the default texture scaling for Umihara to a less insane setting (you can still change it to whatever you want in the user config file).

On my 6 core system, texture processing is pretty much 6 times faster with this change (given a sufficiently large texture). And the new default is inherently much faster than the old, so in total you should be looking at a speedup of >10 for the loading even on a dual core if you didn't change any settings previously.
 
Just ran the new version and it's so much better in terms of load times. Thanks again. I felt a bit bad about complaining, since you are doing
their work
the lord's work here for us, but this was one game where increased load times could be really bad. Thanks for everything you do.
 
I propose a new tag.

Durante: Embarrassing japanese developers since 20xx (the year DSfix was released).

Amazing work man, as always. I really hope you land your dream job one day, PC gaming benefits greatly from your skills.
 
BONKERS said:
Tons of Indie developers, even Japanese ones have a decent track record of getting it right when it comes to the basics. (And look Agatsuma got the framerate and performance right. But messed up just about everything else)

Bamco and the likes of Koei (Who started out in the PC business and has been making PC ports of various kinds for well over a decade with the warriors games. That were not very common releases until the last few years) get zero leeway from me. They should know better by now. Especially at least when it comes to resolution. They are painting themselves into a corner by not offering arbitrary resolution support for at least the single AR the game is designed with. It's not forward thinking. (Especially so when you add in the lack of care for proper AA put into any of these games)

Bamco also has been porting various games to PCs for over almost 15 years now. Pac-Man World 2 came out in 2002. Pac-Man World Rally came out in 2005 and has no problems supporting resolutions like 1080p or 60FPS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ONksgVKjaw
I don't know whether PMW 2 or 3 run at 60FPS though. I don't have them. It'd be interesting to see.

It's 2015, there is no reason to be developing for the PC platform, releasing on Steam and living in this bubble. Japanese or not.


That's the problem, is that the scaling needs to be handled delicately on both. More so on the SNES because of the non-square PAR.

Blurry bilinear crap we do not need.
Click to expand...


Sonic R PC (1998)
Ok, it's probably hell making it work on W10, but these devs worked with unlocked resolution and framerate back then. Shadows of the Empire PC also has this.
 
alexandros said:
I propose a new tag.

Durante: Embarrassing japanese developers since 20xx (the year DSfix was released).

Amazing work man, as always. I really hope you land your dream job one day, PC gaming benefits greatly from your skills.
Click to expand...

I would just go with "Embarrassing developers" in general. If he were to open up a porting team, they would be up there with Nixxes and QLOC if not surpass them.
 
Vlaphor said:
Love the work, but the added load times are a bit kinda intense, especially for a game that already needed to be faster in terms of retries. Is this something that can be fixed in a later version, or is it just part of the process?

Thanks for the work though, I was originally using Nvidia control panel to try and add some AA and it worked, but made things a bit blurry.
Click to expand...

Unless you were using FXAA. Forcing AA is impossible for ANY graphics vendor because of DX11. (DX9 would've at least given us the ability to force MSAA and other methods)

@MUWANdo said:
Sonic R was a western-made game, more or less, so it doesn't really count for the purposes of this discussion.
Click to expand...

It does count since it's a Japanese property owned and published by a Japanese company.

ALSO: Sega has been publishing PC ports of their games since forever and a day.
http://www.gamefaqs.com/company/1432-sega?platform=19&year=0&region=0&devpub=0

And Guess what? Generally their Japanese game ports don't suck!
 
Is anyone having trouble launching games with this latest version of GeDoSaTo? I got some bug reports I can't reproduce (maybe OS related).
 
Durask said:
Well, the company is out of business now...thankfully we have Durante's fix.
Click to expand...

Well, damn. I heard this earlier and thought it would put Code of Princess rumored port on hold, but this could potentially affect future sales of the Umihara games :/
I thought I'd buy the first two games in the series later with a deeper discount.
 
Durask said:
Well, the company is out of business now...thankfully we have Durante's fix.
Click to expand...
Hopefully somone grabs the license (or works out a deal with the listed developer on Steam?) and makes sure the games can stay up, but if not... Uhh, wow, these games are going to be some of THE most elusive titles on Steam.
 
Damn why is durante so best?!

Also, are the games still available for purchase? I haven't gotten a chance to pick them up yet but I have the 3DS version.
 
Eila said:
Yeah, all three got a fancy pack:
http://store.steampowered.com/sub/85452/
Wish I had bought that one instead of only Sayonara at first :/
And if they do get taken down I hope there's someone that warns us first! Must have the other two.
Click to expand...
The fact the Vita version had the SNES game was a major reason for me ignoring the Steam release. The Trilogy pack quite easily trumped that by going "yeah well how about a third game, and not needing them tied together?"
Or being bound to a storage medium capped at 64 GB.
 
Just realized, you all better buy everything from them on Vita and Steam, because Agatsuma self-published their lot on Vita and Steam, only their 3DS games are likely safe as Atlus localized CoP and Natsume did Umihara 3DS. The Vita and Steam lot are almost guaranteed to be delisted because of that.

Wow.
 
Durante being awesome as always, gotta say I really appreciate/respect all the work you put in to fixing games, thanks for that :)

Durante said:
My dream job would be having a small (e.g. me and <5 other people) company creating PC ports of indie and mid-tier titles.
Starting with all 6 PS3 Atelier games.
Click to expand...

Holy shit, I'd be so down to support this, I'm not at all up to date with modern crowd funding but maybe that'd be an option somehow?
 
Hero of Legend said:
Just realized, you all better buy everything from them on Vita and Steam, because Agatsuma self-published their lot on Vita and Steam, only their 3DS games are likely safe as Atlus localized CoP and Natsume did Umihara 3DS. The Vita and Steam lot are almost guaranteed to be delisted because of that.

Wow.
Click to expand...
GODDAMMIT. I was really hoping this could be a nice success for them. I'm flat broke and don't know when or if these games will get pulled off the store.
 
Hero of Legend said:
Just realized, you all better buy everything from them on Vita and Steam, because Agatsuma self-published their lot on Vita and Steam, only their 3DS games are likely safe as Atlus localized CoP and Natsume did Umihara 3DS. The Vita and Steam lot are almost guaranteed to be delisted because of that.

Wow.
Click to expand...
Jeez... I wanted to buy these but never did, guess I better do so now before I regret it later as much as I dislike buying games out of fear of delisting. :/

Did they publish anything on Vita besides SUK?
 
Sorry for super necro bump alpha 2 deluxe arcade edition ver. 2012, but I can't get Sayonara Umihara Kawase to start with GeDoSaTo activated.
It just crashes the game. Log only says "RSManagerDX11::redirectPresent". I tried another game (Borderlands 2) to rule out a faulty install, but that worked. Any help?
 
I can't roll back to older versions through steam, can I?
Basically I just have to sit and wait for GeDoSaTo to catch up to the recent changes? :/
 
Jockel said:
I can't roll back to older versions through steam, can I?
Basically I just have to sit and wait for GeDoSaTo to catch up to the recent changes? :/
Click to expand...

GeDoSaTo is open source so you can also implement and push the changes necessary yourself.
 
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