Dead or Alive Xtreme 3 (PS4/PS Vita) coming out on Feb. 25

Ideally they'd use many different polls find what's in common and balance them against each other biases to get an accurate vote. This way is good for early adopter sand probably gives them a baseline for those who will be buying bikinis and what not.
 
latest


Surprised they didn't add floaties

Hell that demo would probably enjoy that even more
 
kuroshiki said:
I'm pretty sure that's not how statistics work. Just because poll has no barrier at all doesn't mean it bias free.

http://time.com/3763868/cl-2ne1-time-100/

See this. South Korean and some Indian politician dominated times poll where basically everyone can vote (and sometimes double vote). I think TK's 'pay with your wallet' voting actually gives more valuable sample data than anything neogaf can pull off.
Click to expand...

Your 2NE1 example actually backs up my point. That's a case of fans being passionate skewing the statistics from what's actually popular. Reading the stats from the game itself isn't simply lessening the barrier... it causes people to vote automatically. It also operates in a way that would very difficult indeed to actually skew, because every time somebody plays the game they're voting.. there's not one small group that can make a concentrated push to vote in a manner nobody else is.
 
Personally I think we'd probably get the same results from people playing the game with maybe the order changing a bit. Another thing that would have to be accounted for is what people would not buy doax but enjoy the fighting game. I'm sure it's not an insignificant number. I find it funny it's for this game we get discussions like this and not others. I guess that's to team ninja's credit. Hayashi is insane.
 
Sakura said:
Because the game is exclusive to amazon and gamecity, I imagine the only way play-asia is getting theirs is by reselling it, so naturally for that to be worthwhile they will charge a premium. I don't imagine other sites will be much different if they even have the product.

The cheapest option in my opinion would be a forwarding service (tenso) where you buy off amazon and ship the product to the address they give, charge a fee, then charge shipping to you.
Click to expand...

What would I lose if I just buy both the LEs instead of the Saikyou package?
 
I don't get why they would only ask the "DOA fans". They want to know how popular the characters are to the general populace so they can sell the most copies. That's pretty obvious. I bet DOAX sells to quite a few people outside the hardcore base that plays the fighters.

And tying a vote to money a) can't be easily cheated and b) actually gives every vote MORE weight, because it shows people care strongly about a certain character. If a ton of people kind of like Tina, but no one cares enough to spend a few bucks on a theme for her, how popular is she really?

It's not a completely unbiased poll of course, but if you think another poll would look significantly different, you're probably wrong.

I think if there was a bigger variance of body types between the DOA girls in general, the vote would probably look a bit different. But as it is you don't really have a lot of choices.
 
ShinMaruku said:
Personally I think we'd probably get the same results from people playing the game with maybe the order changing a bit. Another thing that would have to be accounted for is what people would not buy doax but enjoy the fighting game. I'm sure it's not an insignificant number. I find it funny it's for this game we get discussions like this and not others. I guess that's to team ninja's credit. Hayashi is insane.
Click to expand...

My vote would certainly be different. My main character in DOA is now MR, and was Ayane. If I get this game it would be for Helena.
 
Synth said:
Your 2NE1 example actually backs up my point. That's a case of fans being passionate skewing the statistics from what's actually popular. Reading the stats from the game itself isn't simply lessening the barrier... it causes people to vote automatically. It also operates in a way that would very difficult indeed to actually skew, because every time somebody plays the game they're voting.. there's not one small group that can make a concentrated push to vote in a manner nobody else is.
Click to expand...

It really doesn't prove anything about your point. I was pointing out the danger of idea you presenting 'less barrier gives more accurate result in statistics' which isn't true at all.

The poster above your post actually gave out good poll result which you probably already seen. Even in that one the result is almost same as 'voting with your wallet' result which we already seen.

Also, given that this game is not 1) a fighting game 2) most likely expansive fan service that lesser people are buying compare to DOA5 (which is evident by high price of game), gauging the interest of buyer with wallet is not a bad idea. This is not the same case as you are making DOA6 and making poll of who is going in and out.

Some people are playing specific character because of moveset and not because of character, and some people don't usually play that character at all but has interest in it, these are all margin of errors that can corrupt the result.

The voting for wallet in this case is actually a great idea to get accurate sample of gauging interest.
 
Marie Rose is supposed to look like a 12 year old. That's why she was created in the first place. Dead or Alive Dimensions was banned in Sweden due to overzealous child pornography laws. In response, Marie Rose was designed to look like a 12 year old who is officially 18 *wink*. An 18 year old fictional character who is specifically designed to look like a 12 year old won't be nearly as controversial as a girl like Ayane just because of the arbitrary age assigned to them. The fact that Marie Rose is from Sweden and shares her birthday (June 6) with the National Day of Sweden is not a coincidence.

Even though Marie Rose is 18 *wink*, I think it's obvious that she is supposed to look considerably younger.
 
NCSX just replied to me telling me they will open preorders the Saikyou package for $359 soon.

Cheaper than Play-Asia for both the package and the shipping.
 
YianGaruga said:
I don't get why they would only ask the "DOA fans". They want to know how popular the characters are to the general populace so they can sell the most copies. That's pretty obvious. I bet DOAX sells to quite a few people outside the hardcore base that plays the fighters.

And tying a vote to money a) can't be easily cheated and b) actually gives every vote MORE weight, because it shows people care strongly about a certain character. If a ton of people kind of like Tina, but no one cares enough to spend a few bucks on a theme for her, how popular is she really?

It's not a completely unbiased poll of course, but if you think another poll would look significantly different, you're probably wrong.

I think if there was a bigger variance of body types between the DOA girls in general, the vote would probably look a bit different. But as it is you don't really have a lot of choices.
Click to expand...

But they're not getting a view of the general populace. They're getting a view of a very specific subset of the populace, that doesn't even account for many of the players that would have played every DOA (and DOAX) game to date. Not only have I not voted on this, but without being on GAF, I'd have never even been aware of a vote happening anywhere.

I get what you're saying in regards to character popularity, and if someone isn't willing to spend money on them... but then that's basically what I was saying with my Shenmue III example earlier. There isn't really that many of us Shenmue III fans, but many of us were willing to dump far more than the average price of a game to see it made. That passion from the fans shouldn't be confused with popularity for the game though. It's entirely possible for something to be ridiculously popular, without generating much in the way of money (let's say 2048 for example), and it's possible for something to be rather niche, and still pull in stupid money (something like Idolmaster or Star Citizen would fit here).

And seeing as we're trying to consider all angles here, let's consider one more. I bought the DOA5 Ultimate Content Set and New Costume Pass 1. I still didn't vote in this. There's a difference in getting me to vote with my wallet for something I'm going to use, and vote with my walltet for the opportunity to vote with my wallet in the future.

kuroshiki said:
It really doesn't prove anything about your point. I was pointing out the danger of idea you presenting 'less barrier gives more accurate result in statistics' which isn't true at all.

The poster above your post actually gave out good poll result which you probably already seen. Even in that one the result is almost same as 'voting with your wallet' result which we already seen.

Also, given that this game is not 1) a fighting game 2) most likely expansive fan service that lesser people are buying compare to DOA5 (which is evident by high price of game), gauging the interest of buyer with wallet is not a bad idea. This is not the same case as you are making DOA6 and making poll of who is going in and out.

Some people are playing specific character because of moveset and not because of character, and some people don't usually play that character at all but has interest in it, these are all margin of errors that can corrupt the result.

The voting for wallet in this case is actually a great idea to get accurate sample of gauging interest.
Click to expand...

Having a low barrier to entry isn't the same as allowing unlimited entries. By allowing unlimited entries, you're effectively making the barrier of entry higher for everyone else. If 2NE1 fans are voting 1000 times each, then other people are essentially not voting if they vote once. The barrier is now voting as much as the 2NE1 fanbase.

I will accept your other considerations in regards to DOA5 though. It's true that someone's chosen character in that game may not be the same one they'd select in a DOAX game. That's a fair call. I'd still imagine that the overlap (outside of the smaller competitive circuit) would be order of magnitudes greater than buying themes (that most won't know exists) or conducted on a webpage in Japanese (that most won't know exists) though.

The approach they've taken IS a good idea for them. I'm not arguing that it isn't. But it's a good idea not because they want to know who's most popular (they don't really care).. but because they want to know which characters will generate the most revenue. It's not the same thing, even if it's possible it would result in the same list.
 
Synth said:
The approach they've taken IS a good idea for them. I'm not arguing that it isn't. But it's a good idea not because they want to know who's most popular (they don't really care).. but because they want to know which characters will generate the most revenue. It's not the same thing, even if it's possible it would result in the same list.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if you are arguing for the sake of argument or you are actually trying to prove anything...

Of course they care. The more popular the character is the more money they will make from whatever micro/macro transaction in the future. If Marie fans vastly out numbers other characters, they can concentrate more resource on that character -> hence more revenue. If Milla and Marie DLC takes same amount of resource and time to make, it makes sense to concentrate more on stuff that makes more money (hence more marie dlc)

That was the point of whole poll in the first place.

I get that you don't like the idea of excluding characters in the game (and believe me, I don't, since more boobs are always better), but arguing statistics and validity of sample data collected with 'vote with wallet' is weak, and some statistician will call it outright false.

Also besides, this game doesn't even have release date in western world (and I wouldn't be surprised if this ends up as Japan/asia exclusive), what makes you expect that they even care about the market that is not in their consideration?
 
DR2K said:
2 brand new characters being the most popular characters doesn't strike you as odd?

I'm saying it was the wrong sample size. You didn't ask DOA fans who heir favorite DOA character was. You asked people to buy a theme of a girl in a bikini and used that as a poll result. The Lolita's are popular among people that bought themes for them, but that is not indicative of anything besides that.
Click to expand...

What would be the point of a poll that doesn't involve people spending money?
A 'hey who is your favourite DOA character' doesn't amount to anything. People will just resort to proxies etc to vote as many times as they can to see their girl in. At least for this, you have to put your money where your mouth is, which is really all that matters.
They want the girls who will generate the most money in terms of DLC etc, to be the girls in the game.
I'm not sure what is surprising with the 2 new characters being the most popular either.
Lots of people probably started with the series at DOA5.

NeOak said:
What would I lose if I just buy both the LEs instead of the Saikyou package?
Click to expand...
Saikyou pack comes with 9 B2 bath posters. Rest of the content is the same.
 
If they expect dlc to sell it will come to the west. I surmise it is due to clearance we don't have a date or there is some event to announce in the west if they have clearance.
 
kuroshiki said:
I'm not sure if you are arguing for the sake of argument or you are actually trying to prove anything...

Of course they care. The more popular the character is the more money they will make from whatever micro/macro transaction in the future. If Marie fans vastly out numbers other characters, they can concentrate more resource on that character -> hence more revenue. If Milla and Marie DLC takes same amount of resource and time to make, it makes sense to concentrate more on stuff that makes more money (hence more marie dlc)

That was the point of whole poll in the first place.

I get that you don't like the idea of excluding characters in the game (and believe me, I don't, since more boobs are always better), but arguing statistics and validity of sample data collected with 'vote with wallet' is weak, and some statistician will call it outright false.

Also besides, this game doesn't even have release date in western world (and I wouldn't be surprised if this ends up as Japan/asia exclusive), what makes you expect that they even care about the market that is not in their consideration?
Click to expand...

The point I'm arguing is that the bolded isn't necessarily true. If there were say 200 Christie fans, and 100 Marie Rose fans, yet the Christie fans don't tend to buy paid DLC, then it makes sense to focus any limited resources on the Marie Rose fans. There's not always a direct correlation between popularity and revenue.

This is pretty much the entire basis of the Kickstarter model, where projects can leverage a smaller, but more invested audience in the absense of a larger one. If all those wanting a new Shenmue were to pay only the cost of a single retail copy (essentially voting with their wallet once), then it wouldn't be getting made. Similarly mobile game developers tend to target iOS first over Android, despite the greater popularity of the latter, because user of the former have consistently demonstrated more willingness to spend additional money on their device. And pop groups in Japan often release multiple editions of the same release, because their fanbases will buy them all out of passion. That doesn't mean that those groups have more fans then every act they outsell once these duplicate sales (or even single sales now in the age of Spotify) are counted.

So again, yes.. the method they've chosen suits what they're attempting to measure. But what they're trying to measure is purely how lucrative each character is. They don't care who's your favourite if you're not the type to pay up when they request it... and this is important, as much of what they're looking to sell later is almost certainly not going to priced sensibly (much like how a $400 PS4/Vita pack isn't), so looking for the group that will spend the most rather than just the largest group is important.
 
Synth said:
The point I'm arguing is that the bolded isn't necessarily true. If there were say 200 Christie fans, and 100 Marie Rose fans, yet the Christie fans don't tend to buy paid DLC, then it makes sense to focus any limited resources on the Marie Rose fans. There's not always a direct correlation between popularity and revenue.

This is pretty much the entire basis of the Kickstarter model, where projects can leverage a smaller, but more invested audience in the absense of a larger one. If all those wanting a new Shenmue were to pay only the cost of a single retail copy (essentially voting with their wallet once), then it wouldn't be getting made. Similarly mobile game developers tend to target iOS first over Android, despite the greater popularity of the latter, because the former has consistently demonstrated more willingness to spend additional money on their device. And pop groups in Japan often release multiple editions of the same release, because their fanbases will buy them all out of passion. That doesn't mean that those groups have more fans then every act they outsell once these duplicate sales (or even single sales now in the age of Spotify) are counted.

So again, yes.. the method they've chosen suits what they're attempting to measure. But what they're trying to measure is purely how lucrative each character is. They don't care who's your favourite if you're not the type to pay up when they request it... and this is important, as much of what they're looking to sell later is almost certainly not going to priced sensibly (much like how a $400 PS4/Vita pack isn't), so looking for the group that will spend the most rather than just the largest group is important.
Click to expand...

There isn't really any reason to believe that the group that spends the most isn't also the largest group either though.

In any case, what better way is there to determine popularity than sales of the specific content? Free votes don't work because it is easily abused. Looking at character usage stats for DOA5 can be misleading because people may use certain characters simply because they are better with them, or like their play style, which would be irrelevant in a DOAX game.

Also I would say that if there are 200 fans of Christie who do not buy DLC for her, then maybe the term fan is not appropriate.
 
Sakura said:
There isn't really any reason to believe that the group that spends the most isn't also the largest group either though.

In any case, what better way is there to determine popularity than sales of the specific content? Free votes don't work because it is easily abused. Looking at character usage stats for DOA5 can be misleading because people may use certain characters simply because they are better with them, or like their play style, which would be irrelevant in a DOAX game.

Also I would say that if there are 200 fans of Christie who do not buy DLC for her, then maybe the term fan is not appropriate.
Click to expand...

I've already said that I wouldn't confidently claim that the results wouldn't be the same anyway. That's a separate discussion, which would be purely speculation. I also don't need to prove that the most lucrative group isn't the largest. I only need to explain how it's not guaranteed, as I'm replying to a claim that "more people = more money". I've given examples of where this isn't the case, and is all the proof I need to offer really.

Ideally, you would want to poll people on a 1:1 basis, so that each person cast one vote. You wouldn't have anything that causes someone to not vote, where someone else will (such as making them buy something useless they probably don't want), and you wouldn't require the voters to pro-active in voting (having to search to be aware that voting exists at all), as that skews votes heavily. Sample sizes should reflect the larger sample they're supposed to represent, so applying the sorts of filters that this has, which actually manages to filter out even much of the core fanbase is obviously not going to be very representative at all.

Lastly, being a fan of something doesn't mean you're willing to spend constantly on random crap. I'm not disqualified as a fan of my favourite music artists/groups, because I won't act like a teenage girl and buy any accessory item with their name on it. A Christie fan may simply think her default is perfect, and never want to dress her up in some halloween shit. Doesn't mean that the character isn't popular if a majority of her fanbase also feels this way.
 
Best way to find popularity is polls combined with game data and a method to seperate the non DOAX players from those that will and that whole picture would be the clearest. But we don't know what their main purpose from the poll really is. If it's just spending potential. It's sufficient
 
Synth said:
I've already said that I wouldn't confidently claim that the results wouldn't be the same anyway. That's a separate discussion, which would be purely speculation. I also don't need to prove that the most lucrative group isn't the largest. I only need to explain how it's not guaranteed, as I'm replying to a claim that "more people = more money". I've given examples of where this isn't the case, and is all the proof I need to offer really.

Ideally, you would want to poll people on a 1:1 basis, so that each person cast one vote. You wouldn't have anything that causes someone to not vote, where someone else will (such as making them buy something useless they probably don't want), and you wouldn't require the voters to pro-active in voting (having to search to be aware that voting exists at all), as that skews votes heavily. Sample sizes should reflect the larger sample they're supposed to represent, so applying the sorts of filters that this has, which actually manages to filter out even much of the core fanbase is obviously not going to be very accurate at all.

Lastly, being a fan of something doesn't mean you're willing to spend constantly on random crap. I'm not disqualified as a fan of my favourite music artists/groups, because I won't act like a teenage girl and buy any accessory item with their name on it. A Christie fan may simply think her default is perfect, and never want to dress her up in some halloween shit. Doesn't mean that the character isn't popular if a majority of her fanbase also feels this way.
Click to expand...

Of course it is not 'guaranteed'.
However, the only data we have, suggests that these girls are the most popular girls. We have voting for a DOA5 tapestry back before LR came out where Marie Rose was in 2nd place just a point behind first, and then the voting for the members of DOAX3 where she came in first and Honoka in second.
There is 0 data as far as I am aware that suggests these girls are not the most popular, so I don't really understand what the point is in arguing it. I am not saying that that is what you specifically are arguing, but the other poster didn't seem to want to believe it.

Of course ideally you would want one vote for one person for a popularity contest, however, doing one vote for one person isn't really realistically possible over the internet, and is easily abused.
I imagine that in this case, the larger sample is 'people who are interested in DOAX', and that treating sales of themes of girls in bikinis as a vote, is a relatively good way to have a smaller sample size that represents that.

Maybe my idea of a fan is different. Taking your band/music artist example, I'm not sure I would consider someone who just listens to some songs on youtube, but never buys the groups CDs, to be a 'fan' compared to someone who does.
 
Sakura said:
Of course it is not 'guaranteed'.
However, the only data we have, suggests that these girls are the most popular girls. We have voting for a DOA5 tapestry back before LR came out where Marie Rose was in 2nd place just a point behind first, and then the voting for the members of DOAX3 where she came in first and Honoka in second.
There is 0 data as far as I am aware that suggests these girls are not the most popular, so I don't really understand what the point is in arguing it. I am not saying that that is what you specifically are arguing, but the other poster didn't seem to want to believe it.

Of course ideally you would want one vote for one person for a popularity contest, however, doing one vote for one person isn't really realistically possible over the internet, and is easily abused.
I imagine that in this case, the larger sample is 'people who are interested in DOAX', and that treating sales of themes of girls in bikinis as a vote, is a relatively good way to have a smaller sample size that represents that.

Maybe my idea of a fan is different. Taking your band/music artist example, I'm not sure I would consider someone who just listens to some songs on youtube, but never buys the groups CDs, to be a 'fan' compared to someone who does.
Click to expand...

Yea, we don't have any data to suggest otherwise, and there's a decent chance that if we did, it would look the same. But just because we don't have good data, doesn't mean that bad data becomes good. This data is good for the purpose it is serving, to measure spending habit between characters. It's awful data for general popularity.

We probably do have different ideas of what constitues a fan, but I don't think they're as divergent as your new example suggests. For instance, I certainly do own the CDs of my favourite acts, and in the majority of cases, I've seen them live multiple times. However, I don't own posters of them. I don't buy their calendars (if they have any). I don't own anything signed by them etc. Much like how the characters I like most in DOA may cause me to buy DOAX itself, but not a theme on PSN. The PSN theme is equally useless to me as a wall poster of a musical act is. But in this case, not buying the wall poster (if I'm even aware of it being sold) gets my favorite band kicked out of the next big festival for lack of popularity.

EDIT: Also the larger sample shouldn't really be "people who play DOAX" if you're talking about the character popularity specifically. A Capcom equivalent probably wouldn't have Ryu beating Jill Valentine for a beach volleyball vote, but claiming the Jill was the more popular character for the general populace would be a pretty hard sell. The game being discussed is actually one of the first filters being applied to the sample.
 
Updated OP with some links for where to import:

Amazon Japan (Japan Only)
[Amazon Japan & Gamecity Exclusive] DOAX3 Saikyou Package (PS4 & PS Vita)
DOAX3 Collector's Edition (PS4)
DOAX3 Regular (PS4)
DOAX3 Collector's Edition (PS Vita)
DOAX3 Regular (PS Vita)

Gamecity (Japan Only)
[Amazon Japan & Gamecity Exclusive] DOAX3 Saikyou Package (PS4 & PS Vita)
DOAX3 Collector's Edition (PS4)
DOAX3 Regular (PS4)
DOAX3 Collector's Edition (PS Vita)
DOAX3 Regular (PS Vita)

Play-Asia (Worldwide Shipping)
[Amazon Japan & Gamecity Exclusive] DOAX3 Saikyou Package (PS4 & PS Vita)
DOAX3 Collector's Edition (PS4)
DOAX3 Regular (PS4)
DOAX3 Collector's Edition (PS Vita)
DOAX3 Regular (PS Vita)

AmiAmi (Worldwide Shipping) - Not up yet

CDJapan (Worldwide Shipping) - Not up yet
Click to expand...


Any other recommended places to import beside these?
 
miku said:
Updated OP with some links for where to import:




Any other recommended places to import beside these?
Click to expand...

NCSX will have it according to the email they sent me. I'll post when they have the preorders up.

Should be cheaper than other places too and they ship worldwide.
 
miku said:
Updated OP with some links for where to import:




Any other recommended places to import beside these?
Click to expand...

I've never had bad experiences with hmv.co.jp, but they typically do not have competitive prices (close to RRP) so places like amiami will be cheaper, but they are not marked up either.
They also do not yet have the products up for preorder.
 
ShinMaruku said:
I live near NCSX so I think shipping would be a bit less hairy for me but I don't know if I wanna pay their price. Depends.
Click to expand...

This is what I got

Hello,

Will you be offering the Dead or Alive Xtreme 3 [Saikyou Package] for preorder sometime soon?

Thank you,

-neoak

Sent from my Windows Phone
Click to expand...
Hi neoak, yes we should start reservations in these next few days at US$359 for the set. We'll be glad to send you a reminder once it is posted. Thanks for checking with us.

Kind Regards,
NCSX.COM
Click to expand...
 
NeOak said:
NCSX will have it according to the email they sent me. I'll post when they have the preorders up.

Should be cheaper than other places too and they ship worldwide.
Click to expand...

Sakura said:
I've never had bad experiences with hmv.co.jp, but they typically do not have competitive prices (close to RRP) so places like amiami will be cheaper, but they are not marked up either.
They also do not yet have the products up for preorder.
Click to expand...

Okay, thanks.

ShinMaruku said:
I live by Nippon Yassan but I never checked if they have it yet.
Click to expand...

ShinMaruku said:
I live near NCSX so I think shipping would be a bit less hairy for me but I don't know if I wanna pay their price. Depends.
Click to expand...

Heh, Shin live by Nippon Yassan and Maruku live near NCSX?
 
Sakura said:
I've never had bad experiences with hmv.co.jp, but they typically do not have competitive prices (close to RRP) so places like amiami will be cheaper, but they are not marked up either.
They also do not yet have the products up for preorder.
Click to expand...
The prices on HMV Japan are actually comparable to Amiami if you exclude the 8% tax.
 
mao2 said:
The prices on HMV Japan are actually comparable to Amiami if you exclude the 8% tax.
Click to expand...

Ah you're right. Forgot they don't actually put the tax on it when you go through check out as a foreigner. I just bought a game a few months ago, you'd think I'd remember...
 
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