Halo 5 Multiplayer Coverage! (no campaign spoilers)

NippleViking said:
This map count situation is fairly gross.

"Over 20 maps at launch" was claimed and touted for months. Barely two weeks ago it was revealed that 7 of those maps were forged.

Now 3 of the 6 proposed Warzone maps are simply cordoned-off variants of the 3 originals?

If you discredit the Remix maps (which probably isn't exactly fair to do) there are only 9 unique maps in this game. For months many have claimed Halo 5 is over-delivering in content, but now it's barely upto-par of the standard Halo offering. Perhaps it's even below that bar, as it lacks forge and the usual expected collection of game-types. And to cap it all off, several pros are already declaring that the arena maps aren't competitively solid.

Am feeling very soured by this multiplayer stuff, when I was previously stupidly excited. You would really have thought that 343i ought to have learned to be more transparent following their recent blunders, and none of this is confidence-inspiring for the 18+ map free DLC, which I half expect to consist of:

3 Unique Warzone maps, and their 3 variants.
The missing remixes for The Rig, Coliseum, Fathom and Plaza
Forge Canvasses
And no developer-made BTB maps. All forged.
Click to expand...

What it so wrong with forge maps?
What is the difference between those and dev maps?
Pretty much a Halo online noob here.
 
jesu said:
What it so wrong with forge maps?
What is the difference between those and dev maps?
Pretty much a Halo online noob here.
Click to expand...

Forge maps made by developers have the infamous reputation of being.... well, "lazy" to put it bluntly. They rarely as fleshed out as in-engine maps because they serve as templates for what you can do in Forge, often by heavily utilizing prefab pieces. I'd say 99% of the ones that have launched with the games in the past have not been good - both from a gameplay perspective and aesthetic one.

It's possible that they could be using community maps this time, but if Reach and H4 were anything to go by, those may not be well received either.

We'll just have to see how things go. I do agree though that the map pool is troubling. At this point, it's the only real issue I have with the game.
 
jesu said:
What it so wrong with forge maps?
What is the difference between those and dev maps?
Pretty much a Halo online noob here.
Click to expand...

forged maps could mean taking an already exsisting map and adding in some ramps and moving weapon spawns, but the geometry of the stage is still the same.

A completely fully made forged map would mean making a stage out of lego block like pieces.

If a forge map is good I don't mind personally, there was one or two nice forge maps in halo 3.
 
Zoba said:
Forge maps made by developers have the infamous reputation of being.... well, "lazy" to put it bluntly. They rarely as fleshed out as in-engine maps because they serve as templates for what you can do in Forge, often by heavily utilizing prefab pieces. I'd say 99% of the ones that have launched with the games in the past have not been good - both from a gameplay perspective and aesthetic one.

It's possible that they could be using community maps this time, but if Reach and H4 were anything to go by, those may not be well received either.

We'll just have to see how things go. I do agree though that the map pool is troubling. At this point, it's the only real issue I have with the game.
Click to expand...

Diablohead said:
forged maps could mean taking an already exsisting map and adding in some ramps and moving weapon spawns, but the geometry of the stage is still the same.

A completely fully made forged map would mean making a stage out of lego block like pieces.

If a forge map is good I don't mind personally, there was one or two nice forge maps in halo 3.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I'll see what I think of the maps later...
 
Diablohead said:
forged maps could mean taking an already exsisting map and adding in some ramps and moving weapon spawns, but the geometry of the stage is still the same.

A completely fully made forged map would mean making a stage out of lego block like pieces.

If a forge map is good I don't mind personally, there was one or two nice forge maps in halo 3.
Click to expand...

Have you even seen Halo 5's forge?
 
The wait is getting unbearable now.. Super tempted to throw together a laughably bad attempt at creating Halo 5's movement and shooting in UE4 and making a map or something. Don't ask why I don't just play Halo 4.
 
NippleViking said:
This map count situation is fairly gross.

"Over 20 maps at launch" was claimed and touted for months. Barely two weeks ago it was revealed that 7 of those maps were forged.

Now 3 of the 6 proposed Warzone maps are simply cordoned-off variants of the 3 originals?

If you discredit the Remix maps (which probably isn't exactly fair to do) there are only 9 unique maps in this game. For months many have claimed Halo 5 is over-delivering in content, but now it's barely upto-par of the standard Halo offering. Perhaps it's even below that bar, as it lacks forge and the usual expected collection of game-types. And to cap it all off, several pros are already declaring that the arena maps aren't competitively solid.

Am feeling very soured by this multiplayer stuff, when I was previously stupidly excited. You would really have thought that 343i ought to have learned to be more transparent following their recent blunders, and none of this is confidence-inspiring for the 18+ map free DLC, which I half expect to consist of:

3 Unique Warzone maps, and their 3 variants.
The missing remixes for The Rig, Coliseum, Fathom and Plaza
Forge Canvasses
And no developer-made BTB maps. All forged.
Click to expand...

We are essentially getting 11 maps. The fact that 9 of the 20 promised maps at launch are either Forge or minor variations is killing a bit of my hype.

It sounds like people are still really liking the core gameplay which is the important part I guess. Will be interesting to see how opinions on Halo 5 MP solidify over the next couple weeks after people have spent more time with the game.
 
I don't mind the forge maps so much, but the ones in the beta weren't particularly good. Most likely the missing remix's are coming out as dlc.
 
ryan299 said:
I don't mind the forge maps so much, but the ones in the beta weren't particularly good. Most likely the missing remix's are coming out as dlc.
Click to expand...

The beta forge maps were really bad with radar, but I'm interested to see how they play with the new radar. I still enjoyed Pegasus, but without radar, flanking the top would have been so much easier and made the map play so much better.
 
Ramirez said:
The beta forge maps were really bad with radar, but I'm interested to see how they play with the new radar. I still enjoyed Pegasus, but without radar, flanking the top would have been so much easier and made the map play so much better.
Click to expand...

I enjoyed Pegasus as well but the spawns were horrible and I hope that 343 fixed that.
 
Zoba said:
lol no. There are dozens of horizontal planes on that map visible at any given moment and it conflicts with its readability.

This is not about preferring 343's art style to Bungie's. This is Level Design 101, and frankly at this point I would question one's knowledge of the subject if they are unable to discern what the problems with these maps are.
Click to expand...

So what's your great map accomplishment as a forger?

Also, the 8 Arena maps may share 'assets' but are nothing alike.. play nothing alike.
 
Nutter said:
So what's your great map accomplishment as a forger?

Also, the 8 Arena maps may share 'assets' but are nothing alike.. play nothing alike.
Click to expand...

I didn't mention Forge up to that point, and you don't need to use Forge in Halo to understand level design. I wont be so daft as to insinuate that using that editor makes you competitive with a map designer (not on the same scale).

But I'll quote this again from someone who is.

Zoba said:
If anyone is interested in where I "learned" most of this from

Hardy Lebel, one of the designers for Halo Combat Evolved, did a webinar about Map Design earlier this year for ForgeHub.

http://teambeyond.net/forum/topic/8945-free-level-design-webinar-with-hardy-lebel/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEhdyzjVVqk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Knb-1uJJktA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbhAPBM7d8M

His blog: http://www.hardylebel.com/2015/01/level-design-webinar-free/

So i'm not talking out of my ass. If we want to talk about credentials, I'd listen to this guy. In particular, he mentions art style and how it pertains to a map being clear to the player.
Click to expand...

This is very self-explanatory stuff. It doesn't take a rich knowledge of level design or competitive gameplay to comprehend these philosophies.
 
I'm bummed it doesn't show your teammates, or opponents rank anywhere in the pregame UI. I guess they left it out so people wouldn't quit?
 
Ramirez said:
I'm bummed it doesn't show your teammates, or opponents rank anywhere in the pregame UI. I guess they left it out so people wouldn't quit?
Click to expand...

Probably. I would love to be the guy who analyzes that stuff for a company; use user research and stats to figure out if certain things should be omitted from a game. Helping funnel fun into a bottle.
 
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Samurai G0SU said:
Do we have names of all the maps? I forget
Click to expand...

Final multiplayer maps via Halopedia. 21 in total.

Arena
Orion – Forge
Pegasus – Forge
Coliseum
Eden
Empire
Fathom
Plaza
Regret
The Rig
Truth

Breakout
Altitude
Crossfire
Gambol
Trench
Trident

Warzone Assault
Array
Dispatch
Summit

Warzone
Escape from ARC
March on Stormbreak
Raid on Apex 7
 
Surface of Me said:
Please no, I was excited for Warzone Assault, but after seeing it, it just looks like a mess.
Click to expand...

The thing that still bothers me about Warzone is how much of the combat tends to happen inside the bases. They're big, but not that big, and there really isn't any interesting geometry inside the spiral bases. Lot of spinning around waiting for players to walk in one of the doors.

That one vertical one in Summit seems to change it up a bit. Was funny seeing how confused he was with all of the players.

Dunno, we'll see how it plays next week.
 
Nutter said:
LOL, Omlet getting shit on in the second video.

Warzone Assault mode appears to be a fun little Rush mode.
Click to expand...

It think it would be better if it was like Rush with two objective to defend per base. Defend this base for 5 minutes looks like it's really hard. The attacking team is steamrolling the defending team in almost every video I saw.
 
Warzone Assault looks like chaotic fun, though I feel it will be a bit shallow and won't have much longevity. Presently it's just --> Filter all players into an arena space and whichever side can hold with the most players progresses. That isn't so bad, but with just a few small tweaks it could easily be a 1:1 with Reach's Invasion mode (or Battlefield's Rush mode), and would play far better for it - namely two control points at a time to defend, with only one needing to be captured to advance. Some turrets for the defending team would go a long way as well.

Here's hoping a lot of improvements, revisions and additions are made to Warzone. The "War" mode from World at War - with 5 flags, each team starts in possession of 2, and the one in the middle is neutral, and you must capture flags along the set order to win in a tug-of-war fashion - would play super well in Warzone. It would be an easy addition as well, as the primary Warzone maps possess 3 control points and two home-bases.
 
Yea, Assault looks kinda lame as is, TBH. I was expecting 2 points, a bomb site, or something similar to Rush. It's basically charge into a base and keep throwing yourself at the wall until it breaks.
 
jet1911 said:
It think it would be better if it was like Rush with two objective to defend per base. Defend this base for 5 minutes looks like it's really hard. The attacking team is steamrolling the defending team in almost every video I saw.
Click to expand...

Totally agreed. Thankfully the maps are big enough to support this.
 
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