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[Alienous]

I don't understand how you can look at these costumes and think they would be improved in any way by the guys painting their skin black.


The people who claim buh buh buh accuracy are fools.

Good examples.

Sometimes being black is an identifying characteristic for a character, if not the defining characteristic in some cases, so I certainly understand why some might think to incorporate that into their 'costume'. Where a white character might get a cape or something, a black character can often be 'the black character'.

I'm not taking up the '"buh buh buh accuracy" argument, but I can see how someone ignorant or uncaring about the social implications of black face might incorporate that into a costume for the sake of accuracy, seperate from any racist notions.

 

[victreeb3l]

Thats one of the worst couple costumes I've seen.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

I think a distinction needs to be made: is he clowning black people? Or is he clowning Kanye?

Going by the costume pair, I'd say they are clowning Kanye and Kim.

If only there were a way to clown Kanye without also resorting to black face. A lack of imagination has just mired this man in a sea of stupid racist antics. Too bad for him I guess.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Let's get a poll going

 

[enoki]

That's not really another angle. That's actually incomparable, considering blackface has a deeply rooted racial history and dressing up as a woman does not.



Outrage culture, right boys? /s

I agree that there is an issue worth discussing here; there is a stigma that exists. However, does that make imitating another person racist? This isn't a guy pretending to be "a black man", it's a guy dressing up as a popular celebrity. Would you say a darker skinned caricature artist should not try to recreate the skin color of someone lighter-skinned in their art or vice versa?

I'm not saying anyone's wrong, it's an interesting issue that I think has some element of gray to it.

 

[……forgetit]

Is not the Halloween costume a comedy act too?

No? Like I said Robert Downey Jr wasn't "in" blackface, he was playing a character who was so culturally tone deaf that he would do blackface, and the fact that he did it is treated as highly offensive in the movie.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Alright, let's look at this from another angle. You see a lot of men dressing up as women for Halloween, should they skip the fake breasts?

As a woman, I can't say I'm offended at all by a dude dressing up as a girl and stuffing some socks into a bra.

So you're going to pretend their aren't no flat chested women. My friend calls his mom William H Macy..take a guess what the MAJOR factor is? Why do they NEED to paint themselves? Why do they need so much defending? Bah..another year wasting my time with.."people"

 

[Slayven]

Yep. It doesn't always have to have a racist element to it. It sounds like that guy just really wanted to look like someone he really admires. Nothing wrong in that.



I don't believe that. Surely it's got to do with the intent rather then the outcome.

The only reason to do black face is to parody black people, is there some other reason you would be doing it?

 

[Apoc87]

who really gives a shit tho

 

[Black Republican]

what did i tell you?


what did i say?

 

[DrForester]

You really comparing a fictional alien race to black people? Really?

Well, look at the origins.

And even once they made them look more like aliens they still all had dark skin, and other than Michael Dorn and Toby Todd, all the major ones were played by white guys.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

who really gives a shit tho

Zero people..clearly..

 

[bjork]

So you're going to pretend their aren't no flat chested women. My friend calls his mom William H Macy..take a guess what the MAJOR factor is? Why do they NEED to paint themselves? Why do they need so much defending? Bah..another year wasting my time with.."people"

I'm not trying to be difficult here, but I have no idea.

 

[cyberheater]

racism doesn't need to be intended to be present.

You'll have to explain that to me.

I find the OP's picture in poor taste but I don't see how racism is present in that photo unless you project your own interpretation of racism on it.

 

[Slayven]

No? Like I said Robert Downey Jr wasn't "in" blackface, he was playing a character who was so culturally tone deaf that he would do blackface, and the fact that he did it is treated as highly offensive in the movie.

Is there another cut of the movie people are seeing that this point isn't painfully obviously?

who really gives a shit tho

But you posted.....

 

[Maxim726X]

Jesus Christ

http://whnt.com/2015/10/26/decatur-...teachers-controversial-photo-on-social-media/

Common sense... Isn't so common, as it turns out.

 

[Fudgepuppy]

So you hate Robert Downey, Jr too, right?

Or does he get a pass because Iron Man has a black friend?

Context, what does it mean?

Tropic Thunder made fun of people using blackface and white people appropriating the cultures of minorities for their own benefits.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

I think people are just really ignorant of the history behind it. I was talking to a coworker last week and she was kicking around ideas for her and her husband for Halloween and I suggested Kim and Kanye and she was like "But then he'd have to paint his face brown I don't think he wants to do that" and I just had to SMH. I don't think they are racist people, or had bad intentions, but sometimes people are just blissfully ignorant of the damage something like this could do or how it can make others feel. That was the entire point of RDJ's character in Tropic Thunder and why bringing it up in this context always makes the person that does it look monumentally stupid. His character was representing someone that was so out of touch and so insulated that he didn't see how dumb it was to dress in blackface.

 

[Netherscourge]

Most black people I talk to about Tropic Thunder hated the movie because of Robert Downey, Jr. being in blackface and exaggerating a "black person".

I liked it it myself, and I tried to explain it to them using the same message you have. They don't care. Some subjects are too personal to make fun of and a white actor certainly does not have the same historical credibility that a black actor does to race-lift themselves for the sake of irony or comedic satire.

 

[Bronx-Man]

I mean, he did a pretty good job at imitating another person... regardless of skin color. It's a bad costume, to be sure.

I can't see the difference, honestly, between this or if he had chose to dress up as macho man Randy Savage. Suddenly the costume isn't offensive because he isn't dressing up as someone from another race?

Yeah, let's get all worked up about it on neogaf.com instead, that will fix things.

How many people got mad at Dave?

There seems to be a distinction between hateful black face and skin painting, at least to me. I'm not black, but I'm not offended by either example. The Kanye face painting doesn't seem to be negative, judging by the one still photo. Features aren't exaggerated, sign isn't racist, etc.

How are these people so ignorant? Did they not even read the previous Neogaf threads about it? How many smh's will it take to rid the world of these terrible racists?

So you hate Robert Downey, Jr too, right?

Or does he get a pass because Iron Man has a black friend?

Alright, let's look at this from another angle. You see a lot of men dressing up as women for Halloween, should they skip the fake breasts?

As a woman, I can't say I'm offended at all by a dude dressing up as a girl and stuffing some socks into a bra.

I get the history of blackface, but is this really racist?

People need to chill being offended by this nonsense.

I see we've reached the part of the thread where a lot of white people try to tell blacks how they should feel about blackface.

 

[metalslimer]

Do people not understand the difference of comedians doing parodies of black face and people getting dressed up in costumes as a black person? I don't think this guy is necessarily racist but he sure is dumb. Also Robert Downey Jr. Is supposed to be a racist caricature. Tropic thunder wasn't the story of a black guy where they cast Downey

 

[enoki]

So you're going to pretend their aren't no flat chested women. My friend calls his mom William H Macy..take a guess what the MAJOR factor is? Why do they NEED to paint themselves? Why do they need so much defending? Bah..another year wasting my time with.."people"

I'm completely flat chested, but it was just an example.

They don't need to, nor do I think they necessarily "should" have. I was under the impression black face was meant to insult a race as a whole, not imitate a celebrity. I would see the situation differently if this guy was dressing up as "a black dude".

I see we've reached the part of the the where a lot of white people try to tell blacks how they should feel about blackface.

Honestly, I don't think I've done anything but discuss this in a mature way. It's pretty clear that there is only one way to post in this thread that doesn't result in belittling, though. I think this is a topic worth discussing seriously.

 

[Slayven]

Well, look at the origins.



And even once they made them look more like aliens they still all had dark skin, and other than Michael Dorn and Toby Todd, all the major ones were played by white guys.

Code of Honor is why more of an issue then that.

 

[Silver Arrows]

Is there another cut of the movie people are seeing that this point isn't painfully obviously?
.

You know as well as I do Slayven that the content of the movie doesn't matter. The fact that RDJ is in blackface is enough of a fallacy to win an argument against the evil SJW's. /s

 

[BlackRock]

The blackface isn't necessary if the costume is good. I had a white friend in college that went as Plaxico Burress in 2009 and managed to get the message across without going blackface.

What was racist about blackface was how the characters were made to be utter buffoons. It was a gross racial stereotype. I'm not sure simply dressing as a black character is racist. I think context is very important here.

 

[DrForester]

I don't think the costume is racist. I think there's a line between racism and stupidity. Not that there isn't some overlap. All racists might be stupid, but not all stupid people are racists.

 

[Dash27]

You would think the goal would be to see skin color as any other physical trait.

 

[J D]

Im not american (and i think it has more to do with that than race) But i dont see a big problem with this, apart from the fact that its a shitty costume anyway.

I think the term racist is being thrown round way to much these days and it completely trivialises actual racism.

 

[Numb]

what did i tell you?


what did i say?

yep...

You don't need blackface to cosplay people guys.

 

[cyberheater]

The only reason to do black face is to parody black people, is there some other reason you would be doing it?

There was an example earlier in this thread where a white guy painted his face black to go to a party and when asked he replied "I just really like Lil Wayne dude, he's awesome!".

In that instance that guy was not intending or had any racist motives or was trying to parody that black person.

On a personal note. As I have previously said. I find it in poor taste.

 

[TheSpoiler]

I agree that there is an issue worth discussing here; there is a stigma that exists. However, does that make imitating another person racist? This isn't a guy pretending to be "a black man", it's a guy dressing up as a popular celebrity. Would you say a darker skin caricature artist should not try to recreate the skin color of someone lighter-skinned in their art or vice versa?

I'm not saying anyone's wrong, it's an interesting issue that I think has some element of gray to it.

The issue is context. Contextually speaking, it's offensive to portray yourself as a black man by throwing on a bunch of paint. It's deeply rooted in a worse part of our history, and is publicly known to most americans. You say he's dressing up as a celeb, but as other posts have shown, nothing requires him to wear what makes it offensive. It's not something you can "vice versa", because only one of them is steeped in a painful reminder of how an entire race was treated.

West is a black dude. Same as if this guy dressed up as a "generic thug" or otherwise, he's still black. You can't divorce the two anymore than you can tell a black person to divorce the feelings that come from seeing this stuff.

Edit: If you guys want even more "context" as to why people are claiming him to be racist, the line about how people "thought he was an actual black person" should be enough.

 

[Yaboosh]

Yeah the guy in the op is alright, he's one of the good ones.

 

[WeAreStarStuff]

I'm black and I'm not offended. I don't really think it's a racist thing. Kanye is...well..black.

 

[jesu]

If his costume wasn't shitty he wouldn't have to be in blackface for anyone to get it.

Here's someone's costume, playing a black character, sans blackface, the right way:

Who is that meant to be?

H e looks like the NK leader but he's not black.

 

[JayTapp]

What was racist about blackface was how the characters were made to be utter buffoons. It was a gross racial stereotype. I'm not sure simply dressing as a black character is racist. I think context is very important here.

That's excactly what I was thinking. It's the fact that those character had exaggerated traits and were mostly raper,s murderes, thiefs idiots etc.

Had a local celebrity talk about that because it always pops up now and then ( he's black). To paraphrase a lot,
He said if you are making a sketch about me personnaly and you dress like me, and blackface when making jokes about me personnaly it's ok, i see what is going on.

Dressing a white guy to play a generic black dude for nothing, i have an issue with it.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

You'll have to explain that to me.

You can behave in a manner that is racially insensitive/oppressive without realizing that's what you're doing. It's the basic definition of ignorance.

"I didn't mean to" doesn't change the fact of the act. This 5th Grade teacher, should we give him the benefit of the doubt, probably didn't realize what he was tapping into when he decided to "black up" for his Halloween costume. Let's agree that he somehow made it through life in the South without ever being introduced to these general concepts. That doesn't remove the context that is present. His being unable to understand it or even concieve of it doesn't mean it ceases to exist. It just means "he didn't mean it."

It's still there, though. And spotting it and calling it what it is isn't "projection." It's just observation.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

What was racist about blackface was how the characters were made to be utter buffoons. It was a gross racial stereotype. I'm not sure simply dressing as a black character is racist. I think context is very important here.

But when there is a history of racist and bigoted people who in the past woudl paint themselves black in an attempt to lampoon black people, you have to be sensitive to the history of it. It might not make this guy racist (or he could be, I don't know him) but it certainly makes him ignorant and lacking in any sort of self-awareness. No different from the people who play the "But the swastika means good luck!" or "the Confederate flag stands for southern pride!" card.

 

[Tripolygon]

I don't think the costume is racist. I think there's a line between racism and stupidity. Not that there isn't some overlap. All racists might be stupid, but not all stupid people are racists.

Black skin is not a costume to be put on and taken off. Racism is not always overt and can sometimes be born out of stupidity, doesn't have to have any ill intent behind it.

I'm black and I'm not offended. I don't really think it's a racist thing. Kanye is...well..black.

Prefacing your comment with "I am black" does not mean anything, but i'm glad you're not offended.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

Racist Halloween and Zwarte Pete... Happy holiday season y'all.

 

[Rest]

What about Klingons at a Star Trek convention?

They'd technically be in yellow face, since Klingons were intended to represent Chines people.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

I don't think the costume is racist. I think there's a line between racism and stupidity. Not that there isn't some overlap. All racists might be stupid, but not all stupid people are racists.

This goes back to whether or not intent is a necessary component of racism. Racism can be borne of pure ignorance, which is hard to credit to a man who's professional life is surrounded by diversity at all times as a school teacher in Alabama.

 

[Slayven]

Im not american (and i think it has more to do with that than race) But i dont see a big problem with this, apart from the fact that its a shitty costume anyway.

I think the term racist is being thrown round way to much these days and it completely trivialises actual racism.

No it doesn't and only those didn't give a shit to begin say that .

 

[Johndoey]

Am I really in a thread where white people are telling black people to stop being offended by blackface? Is this really where your going to make your stand defending fucking blackface. Goddamn son


Seriously though being deeply ignorant doesn't actually excuse when you do something offensive. It might massage the issue but it doesn't excuse it.

 

[spekkeh]

I don't consider this racist necessarily. It's black face, but not blackface.

Any joke at the expense of Yeezus and Kim are because they're ridiculous, not because of their ethnicity, I think we can all agree on that.

 

[BennyBlanco]

if you need to hold a sign to state what your costume is for it to read, it's trash.

 

[metalslimer]

This goes back to whether or not intent is a necessary component of racism. Racism can be borne of pure ignorance, which is hard to credit to a man who's professional life is surrounded by diversity at all times as a school teacher in Alabama.

Well depending on the school he could have barely been exposed to black people his entire life. You'd be surprised at how isolated some people can be raised and live

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Who is that meant to be?

H e looks like the NK leader but he's not black.

oddly enough, James Earl Jones is not that much darker than the dude cosplaying him, but I'm sure some people would see fit to paint themselves like a burnt sienna crayon in the name of "accuracy".

 

[Slayven]

I don't consider this racist necessarily. It's black face, but not blackface.

Any joke at the expense of Yeezus and Kim are because they're ridiculous, not because of their ethnicity, I think we can all agree on that.

But 90 percent of Kim jokes are about her fucking a black guy

 

[Chie Satonaka]

I see we've reached the part of the thread where a lot of white people try to tell blacks how they should feel about blackface.

Every time.

 

[Mudcrab]

I see we've reached the part of the thread where a lot of white people try to tell blacks how they should feel about blackface.

Am I really in a thread where white people are telling black people to stop being offended by blackface? Is this really where your going to make your stand defending fucking blackface. Goddamn son

Its amazing how fast these threads go to complete shit