No, bringing up mid terms in primary fight between canaidates is a non-sequitur.
It's tadmount to saying 'murder is bad' as a reasonable political argument to seperate yourself from others.
Two new Iowa polls show Clinton with GIANT leads over Sanders
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No, bringing up mid terms in primary fight between canaidates is a non-sequitur.
It's tadmount to saying 'murder is bad' as a reasonable political argument to seperate yourself from others.
Ziltoidia 9
Member
Furthermore, the midterms in 2020 are ESSENTIAL for the country. We can't let the house/senate in both state and federal level be bought again. The gridlock is because of 2010 elections. It brought about redistricting and lose of house seats.
Also, the people in power love how things are. All the profit goes to a small percentage, they don't care if there is gridlock. its all a smoke screen.
Also, the people in power love how things are. All the profit goes to a small percentage, they don't care if there is gridlock. its all a smoke screen.
superdeluxe
Member
Case in point, Ukraine.
Damerman
Member
and yet dems can't get a voter turn out during the midterms worth a fucking damn.
And Bernie is going to change that how? And it will be different compared to Hillary how?
I saw Bernie talking about this on Maddow last night and I didn't know what he was even trying to say.
Obama talked about the importance of midterm voting when he ran, and not even he could get Democrats to turn out. Bernie doesn't have a chance.
BearFlexington
Member
This goes in my excuse folder for future use. Brilliant!
Veritigo_X
Member
Bernie was definitely the most sincere out there (maybe besides Chafee). I won't argue that. Though your comment about establishment candidates thinking republicans are friends is funny considering Clinton called the entire party her enemy on the debate stage. Biden isn't even running for president.
I consider myself a Bernie supporter, but I find it hard not to call out posters that would rather vote 3rd party or are wishing Sanders would run 3rd party. I'm a democrat first and foremost and want the party to succeed even if it means I don't get a candidate I agree with 100% of the time. I feel like some posters aren't looking at the bigger picture. Even Sanders himself sees it.
I chuckle every time someone on GAF claims Hillary is the best candidate for minorities.
The Democrats who ran were also falling over themselves to distance themselves from him.
Whoops.
Mushroomer25
Member
Honestly? Trump would beat Sanders in a national. Mainly because Trump would have the resources to outspend him (especially if Sanders sticks to his beliefs of sticking to small donations), and focus all attention on his weakest areas. Right now Sanders has a slight edge in national polls asking about this matchup, but I don't see that sticking if the GOP machine pumps out a full-force campaign against the guy.
BertramCooper
Banned
I don't think a lot of people on GAF have said that Clinton is "the best candidate for minorities."
What people usually say that Clinton is, by far, the most popular candidate among minorities, and that minority support is critically important in the general election.
And the GOP is split between all the canaidates. Imagine a Trump campaign with the entire GOP behind it
Future PhaZe
Member
Nothing for turnout--but a hawkish foreign policy resume of two years from Clinton could be ripe for a crushing blow from the right--they'll be hypocritical with their attacks of course, but changing stances to win is the least they'll do for votes.
Damerman
Member
#mypresident
so Bernie is going to get grassroots midterm support when the president with one of the largest and most robust grassroots network couldn't get enough to people to vote in the midterms.
And you are fooling yourself if you think Bernie's campaign network is going to be as robust as Obama's..
Basically the same, which is still funny considering how she was viewed in 2008.
Dems just have a weak field this time.
dehydratedbabies
Member
The "you're delusional if" rhetoric is very weak.
The Internet has changed a lot since Obama's first term. Bernie's grassroots network has a much better chance at affecting change than Hillary's grassroots network.
Jeevesmeister
Banned
People in this thread have got to be kidding themselves considering today's news.
Considering everyone is calling Hillary a third term Obama (supporting Obama's troop extension in Iraq) and we're now deploying troops in Syria (and sending more to Iraq when we should have been out of there a long time ago) because that worked so well the last three times we've tried to fight an enemy like ISIS, I can't help but fuckin' laugh if you think Clinton is somehow better than a Republican any way at this point. How many more innocent Arab kids does queen, yaassss Hillary need to slay before you wake up to how inexcusable, and frankly unsustainable this is.
With Clinton you're just dragging out the inevitable. The Left won't rush to the polls for this come time for the general election, regardless of how many guilt trips you try to throw out, and a Republican will take the White House come 2016, mark my words.
Considering everyone is calling Hillary a third term Obama (supporting Obama's troop extension in Iraq) and we're now deploying troops in Syria (and sending more to Iraq when we should have been out of there a long time ago) because that worked so well the last three times we've tried to fight an enemy like ISIS, I can't help but fuckin' laugh if you think Clinton is somehow better than a Republican any way at this point. How many more innocent Arab kids does queen, yaassss Hillary need to slay before you wake up to how inexcusable, and frankly unsustainable this is.
With Clinton you're just dragging out the inevitable. The Left won't rush to the polls for this come time for the general election, regardless of how many guilt trips you try to throw out, and a Republican will take the White House come 2016, mark my words.
You realize she had the majority of minority support this time of year in 2008 as well, right?
Sho_Nuff82
Member
I think best case for Bernie was Biden siphoning off 30% of Hilary's earliest supporters, email/Benghazi scandal actually turning up something racy, handily winning the debates, and getting a ringing endorsement from a major democratic party member and a major minority spokesperson (read: not TI). It was always her race to lose, and her college proposal has had more widespread support than his EU-like proposal of fully subsidized tuition.
I might still vote for him as a symbolic gesture, but I'm pretty sure she's doing to sweep the northeast outside of Vermont.
I might still vote for him as a symbolic gesture, but I'm pretty sure she's doing to sweep the northeast outside of Vermont.
minor effort
Banned
There's a lot of potential 2024 candidates simply waiting this cycle out because Clinton is that formidable of an opponent this year.
Democrats have a slender field this year when compared to the wide GOP field, half of whom are simply media opportunists rather than sincere candidates.
Damerman
Member
this is one of my greatest problems with extreme pragmatists... you just keep asking questions that undermine real change. and the sentiment towards people who want change go from, "hmm, i wonder if we could do this" to "nah fuck that, that guy is crazy".
I've never participated in a mid term election. At the time that i was able to participate, I didn't pay enough attention to politics to know how important they were. But now, things have changed, and I've learned. My evidence is anecdotal, but i seriously doubt that there are only dozens of people like me.
agreed on all fronts.
dehydratedbabies
Member
It's fun to search "Obama" on Google with the search period set to 10/1/2007-10/31/2007.
With all due respect to Bernie, Obama has done that. Frequently. It doesn't work when the House is under GOP control and their districts have been gerrymandered to the point that their only political challenge comes in the form of being primaried from the right.
As far as I'm concerned, this is THE strategy that the Democratic party needs to practice going forward:
- Win the presidency in 2016 to shore up support for the 2020 battle
- Use the 2016 machinery to rebuild national and state level support
- Focus all energy on 2020 gubernatorial races to ensure that Dems will be redistricting
- Use that to win back the house
- Finally tackle campaign finance reform and election laws with said majority
It still seems like really simple math to me. The practical difference between Hillary and Sanders is not anywhere near as great as the difference between Hillary and any republican candidate. Her voting record is one of the most liberal and she's voiced support for much of Obama's current agenda.
With all that in mind, it makes very little sense to me to risk a republican in the whitehouse to try and elect Sanders. That's what it comes down to. Even those intending to support Sanders, and those who feel he does have a chance, must recognize that he is objectively less likely to be elected than Hillary.
With all that in mind, it makes very little sense to me to risk a republican in the whitehouse to try and elect Sanders. That's what it comes down to. Even those intending to support Sanders, and those who feel he does have a chance, must recognize that he is objectively less likely to be elected than Hillary.
superdeluxe
Member
We have troops in Syria now? Wow.
You forgot 2018
Future PhaZe
Member
All well and good, except the elephant in the room is the potential disenfranchisement of aging, far left leaning youth.
We've seen so much bad from the right that we seem to think our side is immune to bad decisions and quite frankly, producing a rotten president.
Damerman
Member
at the risk of sounding like a Bernie stan, has any other democratic candidate, aside from Bernie of course, ever even mentioned this?
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
I didn't know that Clinton wants to deport millions of Hispanics, start war in Syria with Russia and get rid of all social security
Hillary has many times. She said overturning Citizens United would be a litmus test of hers for any Supreme Court nomination in fact.
BertramCooper
Banned
shoplifter
Member
Of course not (and if so not very forcefully,) because they benefit from it just as much. The only people hurt by the current system are the middle and lower classes.
You didn't really refute the point that he made other than "a lot has changed" and "Bernie's grassroots network is so great" which you didn't even attempt to back up.
Veritigo_X
Member
I can't help but fucking laugh if you think your comparison of Clinton to republicans exist outside a small minority of voters.
And Sanders also supports Obama on keeping the troops in Iraq. Most sane people do at this point.
Jeevesmeister
Banned
To double down on my earlier point about a "Third Term," you all should really be listening to Obama speak right now about police reform.
Considering Hillary's political record I would expect even worse from her. Black Lives Matter totally failed if we're all expected to fall in line behind Hillary on this.
Calling someone "insane" because they look at the facts and the fact that Iraq is a fucking failed state that we don't have the capability to "nationbuild" is real fuckin' weak.
Considering Hillary's political record I would expect even worse from her. Black Lives Matter totally failed if we're all expected to fall in line behind Hillary on this.
Calling someone "insane" because they look at the facts and the fact that Iraq is a fucking failed state that we don't have the capability to "nationbuild" is real fuckin' weak.
You know other than virtually every major Democrat politician like Hillary and Obama who hate SuperPACs and want them banned. They use them not because they like them but it's impossible to win without them.
show me the receipts.
In late October of 2008? Are you sure about that?
If you meant that a relatively unknown Obama had little support during the early stages compared to Hilary, then sure. That doesn't change how Hillary and her supporters were viewed towards the end the Dem primary. You would think Dems would remember this.
B-b-b-but both sides
Only because we haven't had a primary fight since 2008.
shoplifter
Member
Of course they don't want them around, but I'd find it hard to believe it's on a 'fairness for all, money is dirty' stance and more because they tend to benefit from them less than GOP candidates.
\/\/ Let's not pretend that SuperPACs are the only problem.
Dont let that get in the way of your GOP-like strawmanning of Hillary.
dehydratedbabies
Member
I'll have my 300 page report on your desk by 6am tomorrow.
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