Street Fighter V Roster Discussion |Thread 2| Deal with it & place your hope for DLC

King Awesome said:
People shitting on 3S is just a reaction to all the 3S love/fan desperation. Due to the fact that 3S was never super popular so you don't get the need for people to go against the tide to express how they hate the game (like with 4 or MvC3). Aside from the balance issues and the lack of zoning, there's not a lot of ire against the series. Some people think the characters are too weird but I think that's mostly due to unfamiliarity (at least it was for me).

I figure this will go eventually when we get a healthy chunk of 3S reps in V. I believe 3S fans feel overlooked now because every Street Fighter character from II and Alpha, except Juni/Juli and Sodom, made the jump to 3D. No one's favorite game is SF1 which is why you aren't seeing people flip shit over the lack of Lee in SFV but 3, a cult favorite, hasn't seen half their original characters in 3D yet.
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Considering that the earliest SFIII characters were brought to 3D was almost 6 years ago and Ibuki is going to be in all three Ono games, that just means that more than half of the 3s cast are sodom tier.

Normal people I think, may want certain characters but they aren't really obsessed with even quotas from specific games. For instance, I don't think people who are concerned about Juri's inclusion care about Seth and Rufus, necessarily. But the people in this thread "flipping shit" over 3s are different.


The hypocrisy behind complaining about street fighter characters being in a street fighter game, frantically labeling them as "SFII reps", "Alpha reps" or whatever is that they can't get used to different characters themselves.
 
9LeR0qol.jpg



In case there was any doubt, seeing as I've seen some in other threads. Found in the game files. These are definitely our DLC characters (minus Sim and probably Fan(?)).
 
kirblar said:
It's not hate, not at this point in time. It's criticism of a game that failed to break through to the mass market. Some issues were structural, but the gameplay/roster issues are both very real. Viscant was ranting about parries a decade ago. The majority consensus among game designers/developers now views them as a hugely problematic gameplay mechanic, embracing his opinion.

The roster has good individual designs. But both throwing out almost all of the SF2/A cast while having a bunch of downright weird designs on the roster became a recipe for disaster, and has obviously influenced the development of SF4/V to be more conservative on that front. (While not as conservative as say, the Tekken series.) And again, the roster does have characters that work visually/gameplay-wise, which is why characters like Elena, Alex, and Ibuki have come back. We're just not likely to ever see Remy/Twelve.
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Have to wonder if SF3 would have been better received if it had excised Ryu and Ken and just had been called "Boardwalk Brawler".

Well of course, a fighting game with 8 dudes back in 1997 wasn't exactly the best idea, but still.
 
Skilletor said:
. I used to hate on 3s, but I've been playing it a lot this past year and have grown to appreciate a lot of the stuff that I used to dislike.
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That's the thing... that's generally how it goes. Someone hates on something... and it takes them playing it a lot to appreciate said thing. It's not even a novel concept at this point, that's why it's weird to see people still perpetuating it. I can say SF4 is garbage imo and not base the entire argument on something as arbitrary for quality as sales data, because I've put hundreds and hundreds of hours into it. I know how the game works, the ins and outs of the mechanics, I've used most of the characters, played most of the matchups, gone to local meetups, etc.
 
NoctisVsStar said:
People seem to forget how vanilla SF4 vanilla was when it first released.
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Mhmm. It's really funny to hear people talking about how SFV is stripping away the complex elements of 4 when everyone back in the day wouldn't stop talking about how SF4's accessibility concessions were ruining the franchise. And it had already been ruined by SF3!
 
ElFly said:
Have to wonder if SF3 would have been better received if it had excised Ryu and Ken and just had been called "Boardwalk Brawler".

Well of course, a fighting game with 8 dudes back in 1997 wasn't exactly the best idea, but still.
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Nothing would have changed as long as SF3 were a CPS3 game.

Honestly, SF3 would've probably been a hit had it been a CPS2 game and had it released a bit earlier considering it would've used existing tech instead of trying to sell new tech.
 
Beelzebufo said:
Mhmm. It's really funny to hear people talking about how SFV is stripping away the complex elements of 4 when everyone back in the day wouldn't stop talking about how SF4's accessibility concessions were ruining the franchise. And it had already been ruined by SF3!
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The hypocrisy hah

ElFly said:
Have to wonder if SF3 would have been better received if it had excised Ryu and Ken and just had been called "Boardwalk Brawler".

Well of course, a fighting game with 8 dudes back in 1997 wasn't exactly the best idea, but still.
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Ken and ryu made the NG roster due to a leak, fans went bananas.
 
DryEyeRelief said:
Considering that the earliest a 3rd strike rep was brought to 3D was almost 6 years ago and Ibuki is going to be in all three Ono games, that just means that more than half of the 3s cast are sodom tier.

Normal people I think, may want certain characters but they aren't really obsessed with even quotas from specific games. For instance, I don't think people who are concerned about Juri's inclusion care about Seth and Rufus, necessarily. But the people in this thread "flipping shit" over 3s are different.


The hypocrisy behind complaining about street fighter characters being in a street fighter game, frantically labeling them as "SFII reps", "Alpha reps" or whatever is that they can't get used to different characters themselves.
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That's a huge false equivalency. Unfortunately, most of the 3S cast isn't a schoolgirl so their chances of making it out of their game to incentivize more Japanese sales is slim. That doesn't mean the characters are unpopular or low quality.

People get obsessive because they see Capcom as arbitrarily against the III series for some reason. They don't see a massive quality difference between the Alpha characters and III characters so it's odd they are digging deep in one franchise while mostly ignoring the others. And it's not like all that's left is the unpopular characters like Remy, Necro, Oro, or Sean.

I don't think it's necessarily malicious but maybe shortsighted. I figure the character polls are to decide who the hardcore like while they keep in mind the sales figures for 2, Alpha, and 3 to extrapolate what characters are likely reach the largest audience. This is partly why they chose Zangief and Dhalsim and this is why there was a meltdown over GAF about it.

The sensible III fans, myself included, think they're probably right about the popularity of the characters from 2 but the popularity difference between 3 and Alpha is negligible. Both casts are probably unfamiliar to the casual SF2 fan and hardcore fans know them roughly equally well.

There's no person going "Oh hey, Birdie's back!" and then see Alex and go "Who?"
 
NoctisVsStar said:
The hypocrisy hah

Ken and ryu made the NG roster due to a leak, fans went bananas.
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Right? I mean I like the direction V is going, it was just weird hearing Combofiend talking about how they wanted to make things more accessible because that's exactly what I remember everyone hating about 4 earlier. And now you see people worrying that V doesn't have enough going on, just like last time.
 
qcf x2 said:
That's the thing... that's generally how it goes. Someone hates on something... and it takes them playing it a lot to appreciate said thing. It's not even a novel concept at this point, that's why it's weird to see people still perpetuating it. I can say SF4 is garbage imo and not base the entire argument on something as arbitrary for quality as sales data, because I've put hundreds and hundreds of hours into it. I know how the game works, the ins and outs of the mechanics, I've used most of the characters, played most of the matchups, gone to local meetups, etc.
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I don't think that's what goes on with SF3, though.

I still think it's a terrible SF game, even though I've come to appreciate it as a fighter. I think half the roster is awful. Some of the characters people seem to love, I'm just like...weird.

I think lots of people just don't like 3s. I've taken the time to put aside what I like about SF to appreciate what SF3 does, but I still think it's a terrible street fighter game. Same way I think Tomb Raider 2013 is an awful Tomb Raider game. It's a perfectly fine AAA adventure game, but it has nothing I want in a Tomb Raider game, the same way 3s doesn't have anything I want from an SF game.

The reasons I dislike SF4 (and I HATE this game) are different than why I dislike 3s. I love 3s as a fighter, but I can't say the same about SF4, even though SF4 has more of what I love about Street Fighter in general.
 
King Awesome said:
There's no person going "Oh hey, Birdie's back!" and then see Alex and go "Who?"
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I've seen people on this thread who had no idea about Karin and let alone RMika.. But to be fair I think alpha characters are a bit more recognizable. A lot of casuals actually played the alpha series back in the day on the ps1. But I wouldn't be surprised of majority of folks saw them for the first time in SF4 ( ibuki, guy, adon,etc )
 
NoctisVsStar said:
I've seen people on this thread who had no idea about Karin and let alone RMika.. But to be fair I think alpha characters are a bit more recognizable. A lot of casuals actually played the alpha series back in the day on the ps1. But I wouldn't be surprised of majority of folks saw them for the first time in SF4 ( ibuki, guy, adon,etc )
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I can see people not knowing Alpha characters, sure. But the Alpha characters people are really familiar with are the crossover characters like Dan, Sakura, Charlie, etc. I think MvC did more for Alpha's popularity than Alpha did.
 
Scotia said:
9LeR0qol.jpg



In case there was any doubt, seeing as I've seen some in other threads. Found in the game files. These are definitely our DLC characters (minus Sim and probably Fan(?)).
Click to expand...

Fully Awakened Nash/Necalli/Nadeshiko/Necro as the boss, then. Guile better come with a new haircut and a stache or something, it isn't the 80's anymore breh. And more than 2 moves. And a better looking flash kick, that upside down soccer goal thing ain't it.

Skilletor said:
I don't think that's what goes on with SF3, though.

I still think it's a terrible SF game, even though I've come to appreciate it as a fighter. I think half the roster is awful. Some of the characters people seem to love, I'm just like...weird.

I think lots of people just don't like 3s. I've taken the time to put aside what I like about SF to appreciate what SF3 does, but I still think it's a terrible street fighter game. Same way I think Tomb Raider 2013 is an awful Tomb Raider game. It's a perfectly fine AAA adventure game, but it has nothing I want in a Tomb Raider game, the same way 3s doesn't have anything I want from an SF game.

The reasons I dislike SF4 (and I HATE this game) are different than why I dislike 3s. I love 3s as a fighter, but I can't say the same about SF4, even though SF4 has more of what I love about Street Fighter in general.
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While I get what you mean, I don't hold the logo to the game. 3s is an amazing fighting game, and while it definitely doesn't play like SF2 or SF4, instead playing like its own unique thing, all I care about is the quality and the depth. That's why I think it was awesome that Capcom went so left field with it. They made a fighter's fighter and tried to push the envelope in many ways, and it ended up basically being a gift to fans of the genre (as opposed to fans of the series). I don't think "I need Street Fighter to be SF2 with slight tweaks every time," but that's kind of a philosophical thing (same applies I think for people who wanted Chrono Cross to be a direct sequel, where I appreciated the indirect, tangentially related, standalone title approach). However, I do find fault in the suggestion (of some) that the SF3 way is categorically wrong, and that just rehashing SF2 roster every time is categorically correct. The truth is, and I've said this before, unless Capcom is reaching for the casual-gamer-and-35-yo-father demographic with SFV, the new people they need to bring in haven't played SF2, point blank period. So whether it's Dhalsim or Remy, they aren't going to go "omg I remember this character from my childhood!" because they don't. Like most things, the appropriate solution shouldn't be black and white. Right now it isn't, but it's kind of a dark gray, which is unfortunate imo. It feels like to a certain extent the game is getting saddled with throwback characters that the people who spend money on games don't have nostalgia for.
 
How well did SF3 perform compared to Alpha 3 on Arcades?. Since consoles seem to be an unfair comparison given the situation.

Skilletor said:
There was a national tournament held by capcom for Alpha 3. It was one of the first times Daigo came over here.

Also, "Cole hit some buttons." lol.

Daigo's guy. Whew. :D
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The best ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P533Ea0Du_0

miku the prodigy said:
Probably TAP for vskill if they decide to go 'fuck it' like with Cammy
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Well it really depends ... I mean what if its like Vega's V-skill?
Just Tap it and you do the dodge (The turnaround part) , hold and release for the Punch part ( Longer you hold for higher levels ). That would make it pretty different in usage.

King Awesome said:
No one's favorite game is SF1 which is why you aren't seeing people flip shit over the lack of Lee in SFV
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Well if you wanna get technical about it SF4 Vanilla had Gen and SF V is going to have Birdie lmao :P

I know ..I know they are Alpha , but it does seem like Capcom is aware enough to somehow throw in an SF1 rep.
 
KidA Seven said:
Guile doesn't need a stache or a beard. Was this guy not bad ass despite not having any facial hair?

https://youtu.be/EmUIfX9TSJs?t=1m30s

https://youtu.be/08ahnM5iRjQ?t=36s
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He's ugly as fuck, he could use a beard and a new haircut.

miku the prodigy said:
damn your right, didnt think that one through. The vskill gotta be something that would go over or negate attacks/projectiles though, imo.
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Rope a dope maybe? That's kinda like Gief tho. Clueless as to a VTrigger. KO punch? Nah, that'd be hard to balance.
 
NoctisVsStar said:
I've seen people on this thread who had no idea about Karin and let alone RMika.. But to be fair I think alpha characters are a bit more recognizable. A lot of casuals actually played the alpha series back in the day on the ps1. But I wouldn't be surprised of majority of folks saw them for the first time in SF4 ( ibuki, guy, adon,etc )
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Karin and Mika were just in one game Alpha 3. The other Alpha games have sold really well too , and Alpha in general just had so many re-releases that its second only to SF2. They were also out at a time when Arcades weren't completely dead. They were in EX,MvC,CvS,Final Fight. Just in general Alpha characters have been all over the place.

Nash,Dan,Sakura are pretty famous. Cody,Guy,Rolento id put a slight tier below but since Final Fight was pretty popular and sold like millions , its still recognizable to the old gamer crowd. The others are popular among the fanbase , but I wouldn't really call them all that recognizable.

I also wouldn't put Super Turbo characters ( Fei,Cammy,Hawk,DJ) on the same line as SF 2 WW when it comes to the mainstream.
 
Scotia said:
9LeR0qol.jpg



In case there was any doubt, seeing as I've seen some in other threads. Found in the game files. These are definitely our DLC characters (minus Sim and probably Fan(?)).
Click to expand...

Well done Capcom, make a PC beta that can be easily modded to play offline and playable after beta ends, as a bonus leave in files that reveals the secret characters

title-goes-here-GCNHT.jpg
 
Spinosaurus said:
Stache Guile would be amazing

Bob and weave makes sense
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Aldo Raine style for Guile plz.

Rog's v-skill def won't be a bob and weave, he's modeled after Iron Mike. His v-skill could be something like a clinch. No idea what his v-trigger could be, maybe cause some of his punches to act like counters? Probably too OP.
 
Re: Discussion of SF games. I always find something I like and dislike within a SF title. With SF4 I like the roster and the likeness to SF2, but hate the focus attack with a passion. With SF3 I like the style and appreciate the gameplay, but dislike the fact that I cannot play my typical SF2 turtle style. With SF5 I'm really hyped about how the game is going to play but I'm extremely lukewarm on the roster so far.

I've never had the attachment to the waifu-like characters such as Karin, Mika, and so forth. Out of the new characters I'm only digging Laura. Necalli is Evil Ryu and Rashid just looks goofy. I'm really hoping that Cammy plays how I want her to, otherwise I'll be waiting for DLC to settle on a main.

Just IMO.
 
SFA3

Old iconic favourites
Ryu
Ken
Chunli
Blanka
Guile
Zangief
Honda
Balrog
Vega
Sagat
Bison
Cammy
Feilong

New characters I enjoy
Rose
Adon
Sodom
Sakura
Charlie
Gen
Rolento
Birdie
Guy
Cody
Karin

Old iconic characters that I don't care for
Deejay
T. Hawk

Not a fan of these characters
Juni
Juli
Dan
R. Mika (they did good with her on SFV)

SF3

Old iconic favourites
Ryu
Ken
Chunli
Akuma

New Characters I enjoy
Ibuki
Maki
Dudley
Elena
Alex
Urien
Yun
Yang
Hugo

These characters are just too weird
Q
Necro
Oro
Twelve
Gill
Sean
Remy


It is obvious why SFA3 was more appealing to casuals. More returning recognisable characters with a larger roster. Where as Third Strike half the roster were unusual with the likes of 2 science experiments Necro and Twelve. A god which is Gill and his younger Naked brother in a thong, Oro a weird yellow freak, and a lame goth King of Fighters looking reject like Remy and finally a poor man's Shotokan Sean who doesn't get points for being comic relief like Dan. I will get a lot of hate for this post but this is the reason why I think Third Strike did poorly. Even Capcom agrees as the returning 3rd Strike characters in Ultra and TvC were not freaks but the best characters from Third Strike. If one third of the roster are going to be unusual freak characters and only have 4 iconic returning characters you definitely going to fail to appeal with the casuals.

I'm not saying freaks should not be allowed in the roster but having 1 third of the roster as freaks doesn't give the game a good image. Take a look at the original SF2. Blanka was the only freak, Dhalsim if you a stretching (pun intended) but personally I don't see him as a freak I think they over exaggerating the Yoga fighting style. Now loom at SFV, again a nice balanced roster. The only freaks are Necalli and Nash.
 
KAL2006 said:
The only freaks are Necalli and Nash.
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Thats still stretching(lol) it , Nash is still a Human with some patched up skin. And Necalli is well ... just has a weird hair style tbh.
They still arent say like Blanka or Twelve.

Also Alpha 2 sold almost the same if not more than Alpha 3. Its just that it didn't cross 1m on a single platform. But it performed much better on Saturn( Really big in Japan) and SNES.
 
King Awesome said:
People shitting on 3S is just a reaction to all the 3S love/fan desperation. Due to the fact that 3S was never super popular so you don't get the need for people to go against the tide to express how they hate the game (like with 4 or MvC3). Aside from the balance issues and the lack of zoning, there's not a lot of ire against the series. Some people think the characters are too weird but I think that's mostly due to unfamiliarity (at least it was for me).

I figure this will go eventually when we get a healthy chunk of 3S reps in V. I believe 3S fans feel overlooked now because every Street Fighter character from II and Alpha, except Juni/Juli and Sodom, made the jump to 3D. No one's favorite game is SF1 which is why you aren't seeing people flip shit over the lack of Lee in SFV but 3, a cult favorite, hasn't seen half their original characters in 3D yet.
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I think Third Strike is a good game with a lot of cool things and some amazing presentation in both the art and sound departments but it's hard for me not to get a little frustrated when I see a lot of people say it's the only good SF since 2 and that it makes 4 look like a steaming pile of shit. A lot of people gloss over how incredibly unbalanced it is, which is kind of a big deal imo. There's all of these great characters and you only see four of them in high level play. Granted, I think 4 has significant problems too (the art was fine at the time but hasn't aged well, one frame links are stupid, FADCs are not intuitive at all, Arcade Edition was admittedly awful, etc.), but I also think it does a lot of things right and gets unfairly maligned for its negatives.

Basically I wish more people would accept that liking SF3 over SF4 or vice-versa is really a preference thing as opposed to one game being good and one game being terrible. They're both good in completely different ways.
 
Sean isn't weird but the way Capcom handled him is

NG and 2I Sean are both normal and all, then comes 3S Sean and it feels like Capcom just wanted to force him into a joke with that weird sloppy two handed DP and the fact that they broke his legs balance-wise.
 
Sean wasn't a joke character at all.....people think he is because he doesn't like being compared to Dan and also mostly because he sucked in 3S. Dude was one of my mains alongside Alex/Dudley and he had a fun move set and an improved version would be fun to see in SFV.

SFV "is" missing freaks though....need a least 1 since SF without freaks just feels weird. Necalli fills it in a way but not really.
 
Remapped88 said:
Sean wasn't a joke character at all.....people think he is because he doesn't like being compared to Dan and also mostly because he sucked in 3S. Dude was one of my mains alongside Alex/Dudley and he had a fun move set and an improved version would be fun to see in SFV.

SFV "is" missing freaks though....need a least 1 since SF without freaks just feels weird. Necalli fills it in a way but not really.
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Dhalsim isn't a freak?
 
stn said:
Re: Discussion of SF games. I always find something I like and dislike within a SF title. With SF4 I like the roster and the likeness to SF2, but hate the focus attack with a passion. With SF3 I like the style and appreciate the gameplay, but dislike the fact that I cannot play my typical SF2 turtle style. With SF5 I'm really hyped about how the game is going to play but I'm extremely lukewarm on the roster so far.

I've never had the attachment to the waifu-like characters such as Karin, Mika, and so forth. Out of the new characters I'm only digging Laura. Necalli is Evil Ryu and Rashid just looks goofy. I'm really hoping that Cammy plays how I want her to, otherwise I'll be waiting for DLC to settle on a main.

Just IMO.
Click to expand...

It comes down to philosophical play styles. I like 3s cause I'm in your face and SFV feels the same way. The turtle/lame aspect is a legit play style/strategy. I guess it all depends if your game can translate from game to game.
 
Am also kinda glad SF V turned down the "Joke" characters bit with SF V. I mean it just felt too much in SF4. Rufus,Fuerte,Dan,Blanka,Honda,Hugo and even like Rolento and Ibuki to an extent.

Not saying they need to be super serious , but it just seemed to destroy the character a bit. with that "derp" factor.
 
Shadoken said:
Am also kinda glad SF V turned down the "Joke" characters bit with SF V. I mean it just felt too much in SF4. Rufus,Fuerte,Dan,Blanka,Honda,Hugo and even like Rolento and Ibuki to an extent.

Not saying they need to be super serious , but it just seemed to destroy the character a bit. with that "derp" factor.
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Hugo didn't used to be a comedic character. In III he seems like a monster with the way he sways and shakes, plus the only darkness of his eyes/large, pupiless orbs.
 
King Awesome said:
Hugo didn't used to be a comedic character. In III he seems like a monster with the way he sways and shakes, plus the only darkness of his eyes/large, pupiless orbs.
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EXACTLY ... Like Hugo in 3S is fine , but in SF4 he wants to become a Potato ... What?
I dont mind certain goofy characteristics. Its a charm in SF. But SF4 just went too much into that and made a lot of things just cringe worthy.

Its the same deal with Honda,Rolento and guessing Hakan too if he was in alpha or 3S. Blanka and Dan also had a charm to them.
SF4 just seemed to do the whole comedic thing really bad. Freaking Guy seems like a comedy character in one of those SFxT cutscenes.
 
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