Street Fighter V Roster Discussion |Thread 2| Deal with it & place your hope for DLC

Stone Ocean said:
Look, let's face it, by technical standards 3S is basically a kusoge. Is it fun? Yeah. Is it competitive? Yup. But let not pretend it's a perfect game anyone can enjoy, just like any good FG that isn't ST. You can dislike a game and that's okay. No need to antagonize people by saying they haven't played it.
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But he's just saying that's his impression/how he feels, he isn't stating it as absolute fact. Anecdotally, I understand where he's coming from, though I would argue that many have played 3s, but their inability to be good at it is the source of their frustrations.

The anecdotal arguments like the one you were responding to come about because the "proof" of 3s supposedly being inferior is like... sales data that has so many asterisks involved that it's fallacious in itself to cite as any sort of evidence. It's silly to use sales data as proof of quality, but that's a diff story. Also, autopost stuff like "too many freakz and weirdos" like that isn't part of SF2's charm. Point is, weak argument gets anecdotal rebuttal. If people play 3s and they can articulate why it's inferior to them, then they should post some of that instead of what feels like drive by "lol nobody wants 3s characters except 2 ppl on Gaf, get with the times u nerds" posts by people who ignore the present data that kind of points to the public favoring the inclusion of 3s characters over legacy dudes.
 
qcf x2 said:
But he's just saying that's his impression/how he feels, he isn't stating it as absolute fact. Anecdotally, I understand where he's coming from, though I would argue that many have played 3s, but their inability to be good at it is the source of their frustrations.

The anecdotal arguments like the one you were responding to come about because the "proof" of 3s supposedly being inferior is like... sales data that has so many asterisks involved that it's fallacious in itself to cite as any sort of evidence. It's silly to use sales data as proof of quality, but that's a diff story. Point is, weak argument gets anecdotal rebuttal. If people play 3s and they can articulate why it's inferior to them, then they should post some of that instead of what feels like drive by "lol nobody wants 3s characters except 2 ppl on Gaf, get with the times u nerds" posts by people who ignore the present data that kind of points to the public favoring the inclusion of 3s characters over legacy dudes.
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Whether or not 3s is good is a totally different argument from whether or not it was popular which is also a totally different argument from whether or not people want characters from it included in SF5.
 
qcf x2 said:
But he's just saying that's his impression/how he feels, he isn't stating it as absolute fact. Anecdotally, I understand where he's coming from, though I would argue that many have played 3s, but their inability to be good at it is the source of their frustrations.

The anecdotal arguments like the one you were responding to come about because the "proof" of 3s supposedly being inferior is like... sales data that has so many asterisks involved that it's fallacious in itself to cite as any sort of evidence. It's silly to use sales data as proof of quality, but that's a diff story. Also, autopost stuff like "too many freakz and weirdos" like that isn't part of SF2's charm. Point is, weak argument gets anecdotal rebuttal. If people play 3s and they can articulate why it's inferior to them, then they should post some of that instead of what feels like drive by "lol nobody wants 3s characters except 2 ppl on Gaf, get with the times u nerds" posts by people who ignore the present data that kind of points to the public favoring the inclusion of 3s characters over legacy dudes.
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I do agree that there's a lot of people that talk shit about games that they haven't played, but saying that isn't really getting the discussion anywhere - not that this is a discussion that needs to happen, to be honest. I mostly give 3S fans shit for the way they act around this thread, but they shouldn't need to justify why they want a character, just like anyone else that wants any other character.
 
qcf x2 said:
But he's just saying that's his impression/how he feels, he isn't stating it as absolute fact. Anecdotally, I understand where he's coming from, though I would argue that many have played 3s, but their inability to be good at it is the source of their frustrations.

The anecdotal arguments like the one you were responding to come about because the "proof" of 3s supposedly being inferior is like... sales data that has so many asterisks involved that it's fallacious in itself to cite as any sort of evidence. It's silly to use sales data as proof of quality, but that's a diff story. Also, autopost stuff like "too many freakz and weirdos" like that isn't part of SF2's charm. Point is, weak argument gets anecdotal rebuttal. If people play 3s and they can articulate why it's inferior to them, then they should post some of that instead of what feels like drive by "lol nobody wants 3s characters except 2 ppl on Gaf, get with the times u nerds" posts by people who ignore the present data that kind of points to the public favoring the inclusion of 3s characters over legacy dudes.
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I do get the impression that many people who don't like 3S haven't actually played it all that much because (and this has happened a few times on GAF) people will be listing off characters that are shitty/too weird/whatever and then they'll throw out some character that wasn't in III but was in a crossover game. A few pages ago a person listed Maki as from 3S.

nded said:
I always thought he was pretty goofy. His eyes are always bugging out and his stages are a theme park and his room which has toys strewn about and a childish drawing of a panda in the corner.
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There are elements of goofiness in his portrayal in 3S (his Hulk Hogan winpose) but I think he's supposed to be the archetype of the giant with the mind of a child. I thought he might be mentally challenged but he spoke somewhat eloquently in 3S victory quotes. His intelligence went away completely in SF4.

Regardless, that is kind of a scary archetype. Lennie from Of Mice and Men was a killer.
 
qcf x2 said:
Not even really a vocal minority when you look at polls and then look at fan reaction across the internet to Gief getting in whilst Alex is revealed as a low poly background character, then look at the lack of reaction to Dhalsim. Games didn't sell or characters weren't popular mains in a previous version doesn't = only a vocal minority want them back in 2015.
novelty is what people...casuals...the public at large... wants. Not dudes they've passed on the opportunity to use forever but makes them feel comfy knowing they're over there in the corner..
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Sort of? Polls in which language? For which regions? The problem is that there is zero statistical validity in the polls, which of course are self-selecting and non-representative. They are a fun publicity tool, and they have a nice effect of pleasing people who were engaged, making everybody happy, however non-random they may be. It's entirely possible that the majority of the non-random group of people involved with polls and commenting on the internet are indeed 3S players...but the echo chamber experience of the internet isn't representative of reality.

In other words, poor sales do actually mean that only a vocal minority could want 3S characters back...the vast majority of gamers literally never played the game at all! The real mystery, as you say, is what the majority of people want, novelty, some level of familiarity, or both. Unlike IV, V is a bit bolder in chosing "both." Maybe this makes 3S characters even more of a difficult decision for Capcom than we've been discussing here: they may be too unfamiliar for casual players in the event that what they want is familiarity, and they could also be seen as taking up precious space for non-fans of III who are also dedicated players.
 
King Awesome said:
]Hugo didn't used to be a comedic character[/B]. In III he seems like a monster with the way he sways and shakes, plus the only darkness of his eyes/large, pupiless orbs.
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yo me and you were looking at different 3rd strike sprites

The reason I like hugo is because he's a big goofy dude. Like he's entire moveset is some large dude being clumsy and big as shit. Like I know that we like to make our childhoods way more badass than they are but hugo has always been goofy. he just used to have shade over his eyes and that was cool.
 
King Awesome said:
I do get the impression that many people who don't like 3S haven't actually played it all that much because (and this has happened a few times on GAF) people will be listing off characters that are shitty/too weird/whatever and then they'll throw out some character that wasn't in III but was in a crossover game. A few pages ago a person listed Maki as from 3S.
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Some people just don't have any idea what they are talking about. I remember seeing people say that Karin shouldn't be included because the game didn't need another Shoto.

I would like to think these type of people are a minority.
 
Omnistalgic said:
Finally got a chance to do a little video of some of my matches. Man, Ken is really really fun to play! Can't wait to play more, already missing it '-( at least February is sooner than later.
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We still have one more Beta test between now and launch too.

On one hand it's reassuring that I'll get my fix. On the other hand it makes me fearful it might make me go Tyrone Biggums.
 
Village said:
yo me and you were looking at different 3rd strike sprites

The reason I like hugo is because he's a big goofy dude. Like he's entire moveset is some large dude being clumsy and big as shit. Like I know that we like to make our childhoods way more badass than they are but hugo has always been goofy. he just used to have shade over his eyes and that was cool.
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Eh, I don't necessarily equate clumsiness as being comedic. Q's moveset is the clumsiest by far and I think he's supposed to be the "creepiest" character in the game, what with him hunting down families in an intro and crushing his opponent's skull as a winpose.
 
3rd Strike is fun when Chun isn't involved. Too bad she is & you can't ignore the game's atrotious balancing. There is a good game somewhere in the SF3 engine, we just never got it.
 
Maou said:
Sort of? Polls in which language? For which regions? The problem is that there is zero statistical validity in the polls, which of course are self-selecting and non-representative. They are a fun publicity tool, and they have a nice effect of pleasing people who were engaged, making everybody happy, however non-random they may be. It's entirely possible that the majority of the non-random group of people involved with polls and commenting on the internet are indeed 3S players...but the echo chamber experience of the internet isn't representative of reality.
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If this was the case then that would mean that only 3S players give a shit about Street Fighter which both you and I know is not the case.

ZeroTheShadow said:
3rd Strike is fun when Chun isn't involved. Too bad she is & you can't ignore the game's atrotious balancing. There is a good game somewhere in the SF3 engine, we just never got it.
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For you maybe.

Sorry she blew you up? (Nothing personal.)
 
ZeroTheShadow said:
3rd Strike is fun when Chun isn't involved. Too bad she is & you can't ignore the game's atrotious balancing. There is a good game somewhere in the SF3 engine, we just never got it.
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Lol anyone that plays 3S knows the balancing isn't perfect but its not atrocious. Scrubs like you always pretend its this insane game full of 9-1 matchups. This thread is a goldmine for people exposing themselves as knowing nothing about 3S.
 
Exr said:
Lol anyone that plays 3S knows the balancing isn't perfect but its not atrocious. Scrubs like you always pretend its this insane game full of 9-1 matchups. This thread is a goldmine for people exposing themselves as knowing nothing about 3S.
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To be fair, it's not like 3S players are blameless. We just had a dude on the other page talk as if zoning was fireballs only and was so 80s!
 
Village said:
yo me and you were looking at different 3rd strike sprites

The reason I like hugo is because he's a big goofy dude. Like he's entire moveset is some large dude being clumsy and big as shit. Like I know that we like to make our childhoods way more badass than they are but hugo has always been goofy. he just used to have shade over his eyes and that was cool.
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Watch his ending in 3S then look at the ending in SF4. Literally anything can be called Badass compared to what they did in SF4.

POTATOOOOOO!!!!


But yea like someone said earlier , the general goofy artstyle of SF4. Just made the already goofy characters into a cringe fest.
 
Rean said:
I love how his overhead just plants them like that when they try to jump. That and Chun Li's air throw feel really satisfiying to hit.
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Definitely an improvement from SFIV, where it would send them flying to the other side of the screen for some reason if it hit airborne.
 
Maou said:
Sort of? Polls in which language? For which regions? The problem is that there is zero statistical validity in the polls, which of course are self-selecting and non-representative. They are a fun publicity tool, and they have a nice effect of pleasing people who were engaged, making everybody happy, however non-random they may be. It's entirely possible that the majority of the non-random group of people involved with polls and commenting on the internet are indeed 3S players...but the echo chamber experience of the internet isn't representative of reality.

In other words, poor sales do actually mean that only a vocal minority could want 3S characters back...the vast majority of gamers literally never played the game at all! The real mystery, as you say, is what the majority of people want, novelty, some level of familiarity, or both. Unlike IV, V is a bit bolder in chosing "both." Maybe this makes 3S characters even more of a difficult decision for Capcom than we've been discussing here: they may be too unfamiliar for casual players in the event that what they want is familiarity, and they could also be seen as taking up precious space for non-fans of III who are also dedicated players.
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Right, but taking sales data from a Dreamcast game from 14 years ago to suggest what people want in SFV is probably dumber than taking recent poll data. At least the poll data factually reflects some segment of the modern gamer.

You're correct that it's not an easy thing for Capcom to do since somebody is always going to feel left out, but I hope that they pay more attention to the fans for the 2nd wave of DLC and beyond. The suits will always say spam SSF2. But consumers are not static, and if consumers are actively asking for something different, I hope they do that, instead of catering to what some (who incorrectly label fans of diversity as a vocal minority) could call the silent majority. If the polls and fan reaction at events and twitter, etc show that the fans want Alex, please don't put in T Hawk.
 
qcf x2 said:
Right, but taking sales data from a Dreamcast game from 14 years ago to suggest what people want in SFV is probably dumber than taking recent poll data. At least the poll data factually reflects some segment of the modern gamer.

You're correct that it's not an easy thing for Capcom to do since somebody is always going to feel left out, but I hope that they pay more attention to the fans for the 2nd wave of DLC and beyond. The suits will always say spam SSF2. But consumers are not static, and if consumers are actively asking for something different, I hope they do that, instead of catering to what some (who incorrectly label fans of diversity as a vocal minority) could call the silent majority. If the polls and fan reaction at events and twitter, etc show that the fans want Alex, please don't put in T Hawk.
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The current SF2 cast in SFV and first wave DLC were also in SFxT. I'd say after Sagat,Blanka and Fei they are done (Blanka ,Fei might even be years 3). I really don't think we are getting Honda,DJ,Hawk.
 
qcf x2 said:
You're correct that it's not an easy thing for Capcom to do since somebody is always going to feel left out, but I hope that they pay more attention to the fans for the 2nd wave of DLC and beyond. The suits will always say spam SSF2. But consumers are not static, and if consumers are actively asking for something different, I hope they do that, instead of catering to what some (who incorrectly label fans of diversity as a vocal minority) could call the silent majority. If the polls and fan reaction at events and twitter, etc show that the fans want Alex, please don't put in T Hawk.
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I think that's fair. Actually, the staged roll-out seems like a very sensible approach, especially when coupled with a roster that's got most old stand-bys, a surprisingly decent set of new characters, and some returning characters like R.Mika and Karin who will still be new to many people. I think it's a fairly daring starting roster compared with IV, even if they weren't quite crazy enough to try their luck with III characters at the start.

As you say, they could make some people on the internet pretty happy (regardless of whether these fans represent the population better/worse than decade+ old sales) by including some variety in downloadable characters later. A set of two SFIII characters followed by a set of Zero characters, etc. seems like it would please the most people while spreading out the risk in a way that deciding everyone at the start might not.
 
Has any more match footage of Sim surfaced yet?

Also, seen a poll on SRK asking what character everyone was likely choosing as their main at launch. Birdie was dead last. I'm not looking at character polls anymore. :[
 
Does anyone think they'll do anything special in SFV for the series 30th anniversary in 2017? I get the feeling that at the very least they would do an additional character on top of their normal schedules so like Akuma + 6 others. But, also something along the lines of classic sounds and stages.

O.Sagat vs Gief is an ass-tier matchup.
 
By the way, people played Gief before, it was just in SF EX2 !

Fitts said:
Has any more match footage of Sim surfaced yet?

Also, seen a poll on SRK asking what character everyone was likely choosing as their main at launch. Birdie was dead last. I'm not looking at character polls anymore. :[
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Birdie is so much fun. That damage, those can setups, the range on his chain moves. He's so deceptive it took a good Karin to shift through my bullshit.

Shit will change before release and people will jump on board with T H E P E P P E R T I M E B O Y Z.
 
Exr said:
Lol anyone that plays 3S knows the balancing isn't perfect but its not atrocious. Scrubs like you always pretend its this insane game full of 9-1 matchups. This thread is a goldmine for people exposing themselves as knowing nothing about 3S.
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lol being filled with 7-3 matchups isn't any better.
 
KidA Seven said:
You'll have to wait for tomorrow.
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Thanks. I'll be on the lookout for vids.

TheSpoiler said:
Birdie is so much fun. That damage, those can setups, the range on his chain moves. He's so deceptive it took a good Karin to shift through my bullshit.

Shit will change before release and people will jump on board with T H E P E P P E R T I M E B O Y Z.
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This is what matters most to me. Absolutely love how he plays and his (re)design. Mika's announcement had me on the fence over who I would put more time into, but I keep coming back to Birdie. The way you can leverage his tools to play him dynamically is just too good.
 
You guys are talking worst matchups ever and ST isn't mentioned? At least in SF4 you can use the focus attack to get in, lower damage to give yourself more chances, and DWU if you're weak to oki. In SF2 you have none of that. A bad matchup doesn't feel bad - it feels like hell.

Cammy v. Honda ST
Vega v. Dhalsim ST
Sagat v. Zangief ST
 
PadWarrior said:
Nice, I will be stalking err I mean following you on the replay channel.
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lol...we have nice players here on GAF, definitely will have a nice community.

Rean said:
I love how his overhead just plants them like that when they try to jump. That and Chun Li's air throw feel really satisfiying to hit.
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His overhead is amazing, I especially like the run now as well, just wish step kick was safer on block.

-Pyromaniac- said:
wow they either suck or you're really great! I think it's the latter. Inspiring vid considering Ken really clicked with me and I'm considering defecting from my Ryu main.
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lol...lot of new players for sure man...I won't get those easy cross-ups on experienced guys. I'm like 100-5 in beta lol....that's some Moochi level win percentage, it'll all go away once the real game is released though. I'm average at best, just have normal fighting fundamentals.
 
TheSpoiler said:
Birdie is so much fun. That damage, those can setups, the range on his chain moves. He's so deceptive it took a good Karin to shift through my bullshit.

Shit will change before release and people will jump on board with T H E P E P P E R T I M E B O Y Z.
Click to expand...

I'm looking forward to putting some time in Birdie, as it currently stands he looks like he'll be one of my subs.

I am maining Karin for sure though.
 
Kelsdesu said:
Balance issue's? The beauty of it was that parrying was an equalizer at mid level play. Made the game fun for casual play.

You're telling me that the lack of zoning was an issue? Zoning is from the 80's. Its 2015 and I have a hard time understanding why basic ass fireball traps are still a thing.
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TheSpoiler said:
1224.gif


lol dude how are you gonna talk about midlevel play when you don't even know what zoning is?
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After reading all this and looking at your post I feel your avatar Spoiler is the proper response to this post.
 
I'm surprised no one mentioned T. Hawk vs Blanka as one of the worst matchups in SF4. I assume it's better now in Ultra with the few buffs he got
and then they took away his gun
. Wasn't that supposed to be one of, if not the only one, 8-2 matchup (for Blanka obviously)?
 
So assuming the 6 DLC characters are the datamined ones...

#1 Ryu
#2 Ken
#4 Chun Li
#5 Cammy
#7 Karin
#8 Juri
#11 Guile
#12 R Mika
#13 Ibuki
#14 Dictator
#16 Zangief
#19 Claw
#23 Alex
#24 Nash
#28 Urien
#37 Sim
#49 Boxer
#61 Birdie

You would think 2017 would have to include Akuma and Sagat, 2 of Dudley, Q and Makoto would be good inclusions from SF3, Sakura should be a lock considering she's the most popular Zero character. Cody should get a good look in, also maybe Rolento. Probably one of Viper or Abel to add another IV original...

I would also hope the do another original character in 2017 though.... could be the most popular new character from V.... Juri after all missed the original SFIV...

qcf x2 said:
Not even really a vocal minority when you look at polls and then look at fan reaction across the internet to Gief getting in whilst Alex is revealed as a low poly background character, then look at the lack of reaction to Dhalsim.
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You talking about the same poll where Gief was ranked higher than every SF3 character except for Q and Ibuki? Or the other one where Alex was a few spots above Violent Ken?

I want fresh blood in my $60+ game. Not a whole new cast, but I don't want the entire returning cast from _any_ previous SF in there either. It's a new game.
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25% of SFV cast are new characters, another 25% are long missing characters.

They've done exactly what you wanted, except you'll rather the 25% MIA characters were from a newer SF series than Zero.

Lulubop said:
How is Sean weird? He's not a joke character like Dan, he's Ken's Sakura. Talented but extremely young.
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He's considered a joke because of how he was in 3rd Strike, such a shame considering he was an absolute gawd in Second Impact.

Sean for SFV in 2019.
 
Fitts said:
Thanks. I'll be on the lookout for vids.

This is what matters most to me. Absolutely love how he plays and his (re)design. Mika's announcement had me on the fence over who I would put more time into, but I keep coming back to Birdie. The way you can leverage his tools to play him dynamically is just too good.
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It's definitely him and Mika as my selects. Weird, because I used to hate both of them!

Omnistalgic said:
lol...lot of new players for sure man...I won't get those easy cross-ups on experienced guys. I'm like 100-5 in beta lol....that's some Moochi level win percentage, it'll all go away once the real game is released though. I'm average at best, just have normal fighting fundamentals.
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Fundies are going to carry you far, though. I kept meeting people who wanted to go in for big damage combos and shit, and would just take games from them because they didn't know their character well enough to counter my shit.

SFV is going to be interesting for newcomers, primarily because it'll hopefully train them to stop learning the game backwards.

ExVicis said:
After reading all this and looking at your post I feel your avatar Spoiler is the proper response to this post.
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I picked a good time to change it.

Dude hasn't even come back to explain himself.
 
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