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[prgrs]

unless you literally just mean seeing new sights and whatever with exploring, in which case I kinda understand since with scaling you could go pretty much anywhere, but that just raises further questions

??

That's the entire point of Bethesda RPGs. They have multiple parallel questlines that can be done in any order and which are all equally viable at the start of the game. This freedom allows you to explore, and also to focus on a certain location early-game if you know what you're doing (for example, for a FO3 sniper build you could rush for Minefield and try to sneak up on the sniper for his rifle).

If you want no scaling you have these options:

- everything is the same difficulty to allow exploration, so the game becomes trivial at level 10
- everything has a fixed difficulty, which basically means there is really a fixed order to doing quests and locations, so the game becomes a boring linear corridor and bye bye freedom.

So yes, scaling.

 

[aravuus]

??

That's the entire point of Bethesda RPGs. They have multiple parallel questlines that can be done in any order and which are all equally viable at the start of the game. This freedom allows you to explore, and also to focus on a certain location early-game if you know what you're doing (for example, for a FO3 sniper build you could rush for Minefield and try to sneak up on the sniper for his rifle).

If you want no scaling you have these options:

- everything is the same difficulty to allow exploration, so the game becomes trivial at level 10
- everything has a fixed difficulty, which basically means there is really a fixed order to doing quests and locations, so the game becomes a boring linear corridor and bye bye freedom.

So yes, scaling.

I'd much rather have a fixed-ish (it really wouldn't be as fixed as you seem to think) order with what quests and locations I should tackle rather than a dumb theme park, but that's a matter of opinion. I see your point so we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[Berserker976]

??

That's the entire point of Bethesda RPGs. They have multiple parallel questlines that can be done in any order and which are all equally viable at the start of the game. This freedom allows you to explore, and also to focus on a certain location early-game if you know what you're doing (for example, for a FO3 sniper build you could rush for Minefield and try to sneak up on the sniper for his rifle).

If you want no scaling you have these options:

- everything is the same difficulty to allow exploration, so the game becomes trivial at level 10
- everything has a fixed difficulty, which basically means there is really a fixed order to doing quests and locations, so the game becomes a boring linear corridor and bye bye freedom.

So yes, scaling.

This is not really true, there are a bunch of different ways you can avoid level scaling while still giving the player freedom to explore. Just look at Morrowind, still the gold standard in my opinion.

Just saying, there are far more (and better) options than you're claiming.

 

[Creaking]

This is not really true, there are a bunch of different ways you can avoid level scaling while still giving the player freedom to explore. Just look at Morrowind, still the gold standard in my opinion.

Just saying, there are far more (and better) options than you're claiming.

Didn't have a really good time with Morrowind's non-scaling. Early on, I got lost in a cave or a Dwemer ruin or something, found a Daedric spear, and trivialized combat for the rest of the game. Made all enemy encounters pretty boring, and I never really had to fight for anything.

 

[LabouredSubterfuge]

I wonder why Nvidia hasn't given us any info on what GameWorks features will be available? Within 2 weeks of release of a GameWorks game, they normally release a trailer showing off all the nice effects.
HBAO+ and PCSS could really improve the look of the game.

Is that really confirmed though?

I thought it was more rumour at this point.

 

[aravuus]

Didn't have a really good time with Morrowind's non-scaling. Early on, I got lost in a cave or a Dwemer ruin or something, found a Daedric spear, and trivialized combat for the rest of the game. Made all enemy encounters pretty boring, and I never really had to fight for anything.

This would be an example of simply badly placed item. You shouldn't be able to stumble upon high level gear by accident.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

dumb theme park.

Can you come up with a new hackneyed phrase please? This one is overused, makes no sense, and is irritating.

 

[aravuus]

Can you come up with a new hackneyed phrase please? This one is overused, makes no sense, and is irritating.

I legitimately think it's fitting. The world is designed so that you can go anywhere at any time, do anything you want and nothing will really be very challenging. Everything will be scaled JUST FOR YOU.

e: GMG with the voucher is still the cheapest place to go, right? Just pre-ordered from there, hope they'll get the keys out soon

 

[prgrs]

Just saying, there are far more (and better) options than you're claiming.

Well of course, hence Fallout 4 'rubber-banding', which is somewhere in-between completely fixed and fully scaling (but apparently still scaling according to people here).

There's bad ways (Oblivion) and better ways (Skyrim) of doing rubber-banding though. We'll see if FO4 does it better than Skyrim.

Everything will be scaled JUST FOR YOU.

That's really not true since it seems there will be locations with a minimum level of 30.

Skyrim didn't open up completely until level 25 iirc (with some outlier dlc quests at level 40-80 even).

 

[Berserker976]

Didn't have a really good time with Morrowind's non-scaling. Early on, I got lost in a cave or a Dwemer ruin or something, found a Daedric spear, and trivialized combat for the rest of the game. Made all enemy encounters pretty boring, and I never really had to fight for anything.

Hmmm, getting a powerful weapon in Morrowind doesn't really do what you're saying though. It's definitely a boon, as long as you're proficient in its use, but there's plenty of stuff in the game that doesn't care about your basic Daedric weapon. Take your low level character and try poking Umbra with that spear, I don't think you'll last too long.

Also, I think stumbling on a powerful weapon in a random ruin is much more exciting than having all of your loot scaled so that all you ever see are slight upgrades.

 

[OuterLimits]

I'm tempted to get this at release. I have been burned so many times by Bethesda though, that I'm still undecided.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

I legitimately think it's fitting. The world is designed so that you can go anywhere at any time, do anything you want and nothing will really be very challenging. Everything will be scaled JUST FOR YOU.

If it's anything like Fallout 3 you still can't wander out into the wastes unprepared and expect to kill everything with ease...

 

[aravuus]

That's really not true since it seems there will be locations with a minimum level of 30.

I'm not talking about Fallout 4, like I said, the scaling they're using sounds tolerable there. Maybe I actually will come across enemies that I have to flee from for the first 20 hours.

 

[prgrs]

Also, I think stumbling on a powerful weapon in a random ruin is much more exciting than having all of your loot scaled so that all you ever see are slight upgrades.

For me, ideally all weapons would be viable, depending on your character's stats/perks, and possibly your own skill (weapons with special movesets). Basically, the way Souls games work.

Doesn't really make sense for the Fallout universe though, a 9mm doesn't logically stack up to a nuke launcher, regardless of skill. Same problem with TES games where weapon variation is just different metal types.

Maybe I actually will come across enemies that I have to flee from for the first 20 hours.

New Vegas quarry deathclaws say hello.

 

[aravuus]

New Vegas quarry deathclaws say hello.

Pretty sure NV had no enemy level scaling

 

[pahamrick]

Screw Deathclaws, I ran from those damn Cazador's. Big bastard bugs.

 

[Plasmid]

When is the earliest we can play it with a VPN? I am in EST.

8 AM EST 11/9. Use New Zealand ip to unlock.

 

[Unai]

Pretty sure NV had no enemy level scaling

In New Vegas you start encountering more powerful enemies when you are high level. That means that you are more likely to see a Young Deathclaw when you are level 1 and more likely to see a Ultimate Deathclaw (or whatever it was called) when you are level 50. But all those versions will always have the same powerful they always have regardless of when you see them. The scaling only relates to what you are more likely to see.

 

[gossi]

For info - Bethesda are sending out PC review copies (along with console). So they must be confident with PC version, and be willing to risk piracy.

 

[Hasney]

For info - Bethesda are sending out PC review copies (along with console). So they must be confident with PC version, and be willing to risk piracy.

The disk likely won't have the executable on it, it'll just let people with verified accounts install and download the final required files while anyone else who got their hands on the disc would need to wait until its unlocked. It's why you rarely see Steamworks games for download before release date, thank fuck.

 

[Tovarisc]

For info - Bethesda are sending out PC review copies (along with console). So they must be confident with PC version, and be willing to risk piracy.

Not to be dick, but source? It's so damn rare thing, large publishers giving access to PC port pre-release.

 

[gosox333]

NV handled scaling perfectly. It ushered you along until you got to the "hub" and by that point you were supposed to be experienced enough to go wander and explore

I guess it wasn't even strictly scaling, a big part of that was enemy placement too

absolutely not expecting anything that intelligent from Bethesda tho

 

[ymgve]

The disk likely won't have the executable on it, it'll just let people with verified accounts install and download the final required files while anyone else who got their hands on the disc would need to wait until its unlocked. It's why you rarely see Steamworks games for download before release date, thank fuck.

Well, it only takes one reviewer that zips up his fully installed and downloaded directory and sends it over to his game cracker friend. That's what I seem to recall happened with the Deus Ex HR beta.

It doesn't happen often though, but I don't know it that is mostly because publishers prefer to send out console copies to reviewers, or reviewers all over are a pretty trustworthy bunch.

 

[pahamrick]

Not to be dick, but source? It's so damn rare thing, large publishers giving access to PC port pre-release.

Assuming he means this: http://www.pcgames.de/Fallout-4-Spiel-18293/Videos/Pip-Boy-Edition-Unboxing-Video-1176226/

The site was sent a PC Pip Boy Edition for their review.

 

[gossi]

Yeah, my source would be the people doing PC Pip-Boy unboxings (and working on reviews).

 

[Tovarisc]

Assuming he means this: http://www.pcgames.de/Fallout-4-Spiel-18293/Videos/Pip-Boy-Edition-Unboxing-Video-1176226/

The site was sent a PC Pip Boy Edition for their review.

Very nice if we get PC version reviews on day of embargo, should help those PC gamers who are on the fence and wondering about performance / optimisation.

Edit: Also confirms that game "manual" is useless leaflet

 

[pahamrick]

Very nice if we get PC version reviews on day of embargo, should help those PC gamers who are on the fence and wondering about performance / optimisation.

Indeed. There's 3 people playing the PC version right now, lucky buggers.

 

[Kenzodielocke]

As I said before, reviewers got one copy for each platform.

 

[gossi]

As I said before, reviewers got one copy for each platform.

Aye.

I imagine around this Monday we will start to get leaks, as mom and pop stores will start to break street date (stock goes out this w/e). Then following Monday (when embargo ends) it will be possible to play a day early using VPN for PC and region change on Xbox One (set to Singapore and buy digitally from there to get it early - 8 hours early for UK, 11 hours early for US).

 

[Venture]

Edit: Also confirms that game "manual" is useless leaflet

Vault Dweller's Survival Guide, my ass. Can't believe they still printed that on the cover.

Anyways, I'm done being negative. Just positive thoughts and unbearable anticipation now.

 

[Tovarisc]

Aye.

I imagine around this Monday we will start to get leaks, as mom and pop stores will start to break street date (stock goes out this w/e). Then following Monday (when embargo ends) it will be possible to play a day early using VPN for PC and region change on Xbox One (set to Singapore and buy digitally from there to get it early - 8 hours early for UK, 11 hours early for US).

Actually you get to play before embargo even ends

That said I wonder if I can get local gamestore, part of Finnish chain and not GameStop, to sell PRIMA guide [CE] to me day or two early. Would love to have it at hand moment digital goes live.

 

[Hasney]

Well, it only takes one reviewer that zips up his fully installed and downloaded directory and sends it over to his game cracker friend. That's what I seem to recall happened with the Deus Ex HR beta.

It doesn't happen often though, but I don't know it that is mostly because publishers prefer to send out console copies to reviewers, or reviewers all over are a pretty trustworthy bunch.

Totally, they are generally trustworthy. Also, it's probably not worth losing your job and being blackballed from the industry over.

 

[gossi]

Totally, they are generally trustworthy. Also, it's probably not worth losing your job and being blackballed from the industry over.

Publishers generally (almost totally) stopped doing PC review copies due to all the prior leaks.

 

[CyberPunked]

Very nice if we get PC version reviews on day of embargo, should help those PC gamers who are on the fence and wondering about performance / optimisation.

Edit: Also confirms that game "manual" is useless leaflet

They'd have to catastrophically mess up the PC version for people with a console and PC to go with the console version.

 

[arts&crafts]

Totally, they are generally trustworthy. Also, it's probably not worth losing your job and being blackballed from the industry over.

I never understood why people leak things...like downloading them has perks but what are the perks of leaking a movie or game?

 

[Tovarisc]

Publishers generally (almost totally) stopped doing PC review copies due to all the prior leaks.

Which kinda didn't make any sense during prev-gen because PSX360 was easy-ish to crack which allowed you to play pirated copies of games. Not as easy as on PC, but still. Why to shit on PC and hold copies back, but send out console copies when piracy existed on those too?

Oh well

 

[SictorVullivan]

They'd have to catastrophically mess up the PC version for people with a console and PC to go with the console version.

While true, I have both a PS4 and a very capable PC and have chosen to go with PS4 because of personal preference with the PS4.

 

[gossi]

They'd have to catastrophically mess up the PC version for people with a console and PC to go with the console version.

I have a gaming PC and an Xbox One, I'm getting Xbox One version. Couch gaming. I'll pick up PC version later when there's stable modding scene.

 

[gossi]

Which kinda didn't make any sense during prev-gen because PSX360 was easy-ish to crack which allowed you to play pirated copies of games. Not as easy as on PC, but still. Why to shit on PC and hold copies back, but send out console copies when piracy existed on those too?

Oh well

Not that many people had cracked consoles. The torrents for those games were limited numbers.

The PC torrents were in the multi-millions every time, because everybody had a cracked PC since... PC.

 

[Matush]

That Pipboy edition looks very cheap, I am dissapointed with this edition. That's why I didn't even bother pre-ordering it. Fallout 3/NV collector editions were much better.

 

[deadfolk]

They'd have to catastrophically mess up the PC version for people with a console and PC to go with the console version.

Yeah, that could never happen.

Want to buy a slightly used copy of Arkham Knight?

 

[ymgve]

Yeah, that could never happen.

Want to buy a slightly used copy of Arkham Knight?

It's Bethesda, though. PC and console versions have been developed in parallel internally in the studio. There will be bugs of course, because Bethesda, but the PC version won't be a two month hackjob.

 

[Tovarisc]

It's Bethesda, though. PC and console versions have been developed in parallel internally in the studio. There will be bugs of course, because Bethesda, but the PC version won't be a two month hackjob.

I think it's quite nice, to be able to share same bugs and glitches with gaming brethren from camp Console.

 

[Massa]

Not that many people had cracked consoles. The torrents for those games were limited numbers.

The PC torrents were in the multi-millions every time, because everybody had a cracked PC since... PC.

Nobody has a "cracked PC". A PC simply can run any software you throw at it because it doesn't have a built-in restriction of what its owner can do with it, like consoles and Apple mobile devices do.

 

[Cc23830]

Nobody has a "cracked PC". A PC simply can run any software you throw at it because it doesn't have a built-in restriction of what its owner can do with it, like consoles and Apple mobile devices do.

He knows this. It was a witty comment.

 

[Tovarisc]

 

[bigboss370]

Really don't like the glowy green text and UI/HUD/ Hope that changeable. Wasn't it white in Fallout 3? Looked much better

 

[ymgve]

No hotkeys to go directly to the various screens of the Pip-Boy? We're gonna need a UI mod.

 

[Enduin]

Really don't like the glowy green text and UI/HUD/ Hope that changeable. Wasn't it white in Fallout 3? Looked much better

No, it was green by default. But you could change the color scheme to white, light blue, green and amber. Where Amber was the default in NV.

 

[gossi]

10 people have played PC version in last 24 hours, 2 playing right now. Go go gadget reviewers!