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[GoldStarz]

It's not really a rationalization of her evil. The idea that she is just entirely full of despair from her inception is still retained; in the end, the only thing Nagito would really do is to get the ball rolling. I'm just a big fan of the idea of the greatest threat in the series being a person who represents hope, and I think that goes well with how the game turns on its heads a lot of the characters and situations (such as finding out that the creator of the air purifiers created the Monokumas, discovering the truth of the Remnants of Despair, seeing that the Future Foundation is somewhat morally grey, Nagisa's father working for Hope's Peak Academy, etc.). I feel that having the true villain simply be Despair ends up just sticking to a script.

While Junko is on the side of despair, she personally has no qualms using hope to further her despair. Also, no matter how you place it, Junko and her analytical prowess still make her a greater threat than Nagito because while Nagito's powers of luck are great, their effects are still unknown to him until whatever happens happens, Junko can rely on her abilities at any time.

You say that, but he literally almost made the new Junko, and is now trying to turn Monaca into a Junko who is more Junko than Junko ever Junko'd. For someone who can't do it, he was arguably more important than any character to start the ball rolling for Another Episode and, judging by the epilogue for this game, Danganronpa 3 may very well be driven in very large part by him.

Ha has the belief that hope will inherently overcome despair. He also believes that hope 'eats' whatever despair it overcomes. As I previously stated, this is why he most likely joined Ultimate Despair and why he wants Monaca to become Junko II, because the bigger despair is created, the bigger hope will be after that despair is destroyed.

 

[A Link to the Past]

It just occurred to me, did Nagito use luck at all during AE? And I mean directly - where it's either mentioned, or the ridiculous luck is obvious.

 

[PK Gaming]

You say that, but he literally almost made the new Junko, and is now trying to turn Monaca into a Junko who is more Junko than Junko ever Junko'd. For someone who can't do it, he was arguably more important than any character to start the ball rolling for Another Episode and, judging by the epilogue for this game, Danganronpa 3 may very well be driven in very large part by him.

The Nagito you see in AE is nothing more than another member of the Ultimate Despair. It makes sense that he'd want to make another Junko because he's been corrupted by her special brand of Despair.

He's a wildcard, but he's ultimately just her pawn at that point.

 

[A Link to the Past]

True, but ultimately his goal is to become Ultimate Hope, which I can only assume stands in contrast with his status as a Remnant of Despair. :v

Seriously though, I'm now bothered by the (apparent?) lack of Ultimate Luckster in AE. Either Nagito as a Remnant of Despair was ignorant of his abilities/didn't have his abilities, or the writers just didn't mention it. I really hope it turns out that not mentioning the Ultimate Luck is "something" rather than "nothing" though.

 

[Zonic]

Hmmm, so got a few more days to write up a proposal on what game I want to write an 8 to 12 page paper on, analyzing it, its themes, & such. Very likely I'll do Another Episode (I'd do Persona 4, but I don't have Golden anymore & I'd have to look up stuff to remind myself) since I figured I can talk about:

1.) How it relates to the other games & the running theme of hope vs. despair
2.) All the child abuse
3.) The "mixed messages" (i.e. talking about sexual abuse, but then having freakin' panty shots on the damn victim who is also a child)
4.) The randomness of the Toko vs. Komaru fight where your clothes get shredded (well okay, makes sense since Toko is using scissors, but you instantly get them back afterwards like nothing happened). Is it referencing Senran Kagura or something? & why?
5.) Perhaps the fact it was unable to stick with certain moments, the biggest being the ending & discovering the kids were still alive.
6.) The small evolution of Komaru in the fact her stance changes after her speech in ch. 4, showing she's more confident in herself & no longer afraid.

Anything else that might be worth talking about/analyzing in my paper? Maybe the evolution of the friendship between Toko & Komaru, considering how Toko tends to close herself from people?

 

[A Link to the Past]

Don't forget how it introduced relatives of DR1 characters, but none of them were of any real significance (and two of them were quickly killed/written off). This could be connected to how the children did not die, and how it can be said that they may have done so in part because if they didn't die, the game may feel "off" from the other games.

 

[GoldStarz]

True, but ultimately his goal is to become Ultimate Hope.

No it is not. Who told you this?

 

[A Link to the Past]

"He seemed to believe that by destroying the Ultimate Despair, he would become Ultimate Hope and he would finally be respected and appreciated, if only in death. " - In reference to his video message he gave them following his death in DR2.

That may be wrong, or it may not be his ultimate goal, or he could be lying, but from what I recall he had said that he did it in part to be the Ultimate Hope.

 

[GoldStarz]

"He seemed to believe that by destroying the Ultimate Despair, he would become Ultimate Hope and he would finally be respected and appreciated, if only in death. " - In reference to his video message he gave them following his death in DR2.

That may be wrong, or it may not be his ultimate goal, or he could be lying, but from what I recall he had said that he did it in part to be the Ultimate Hope.

It was more about destroying Ultimate Despair than becoming Ultimate Hope, that part was just a perceived side-effect. Nagito doesn't think nearly high enough of himself to actively pursue a goal like that.

 

[A Link to the Past]

It was more about destroying Ultimate Despair than becoming Ultimate Hope, that part was just a perceived side-effect. Nagito doesn't think nearly high enough of himself to actively pursue a goal like that.

Yet all we really know about Nagito is a single version of himself before he became a Remnant of Despair. In AE, he makes no allusions to the idea of him simply being too incompetent or whatever to pull it off (and is not shy about taking direct credit for all of his plotting - he seems to take pride in his future involvement in transforming Monaca).

 

[Zonic]

Don't forget how it introduced relatives of DR1 characters, but none of them were of any real significance (and two of them were quickly killed/written off). This could be connected to how the children did not die, and how it can be said that they may have done so in part because if they didn't die, the game may feel "off" from the other games.

Hmm, that might be worth talking about. At the very least, I'd argue it might be related to "OH HEY, THINK YOU'RE GONNA SPEND TIME WITH THIS RELATIVE WHO'LL HELP YOU OUT? NAH, THEY'RE DEAD, MORE DESPAIR", raising your hopes to make you think you'll learn about a previous classmate via relative & another character who'll join you in the journey/go back to the hideout to only destroy them.

Though yes, it does feel like, aside from Kanon in the bonus light novel & I guess Hiriko, we don't really get to learn anything, which kind of feels pointless.

........oh yeah, did Towa basically admit to the girls he was a pedophile? That felt extremely random.......& kind of creepy considering he said he liked them YOUNGER than high school.

 

[GoldStarz]

........oh yeah, did Towa basically admit to the girls he was a pedophile? That felt extremely random.......& kind of creepy considering he said he liked them YOUNGER than high school.

In the original he outright said he was a lolicon iirc.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Also, Nagito specifically states: "Deep down, I've always wanted to be a protagonist myself." If he's telling the truth, then it perfectly fits into his character.

 

[Zonic]

In the original he outright said he was a lolicon iirc.

WELL....

....OKAY THEN.....

I think it was even weirder how the girls pretty much brushed it off, like "oh he's not gonna hit on us"

.....OH WOW...SO...according to the Danganronpa Wiki:

He is a self-proclaimed lolicon who prefers young, quiet girls to loud, older women. He mentions that he prefers girls to be as young as possible and in the art book it's implied that he would find Kotoko Utsugi sexually attractive if her personality was better.

Just....I have no words...

 

[GoldStarz]

Also, Nagito specifically states: "Deep down, I've always wanted to be a protagonist myself." If he's telling the truth, then it perfectly fits into his character.

Wants to be still doesn't mean trying to be. That's more of an allusion to his similarities to Makoto than anything else.

 

[A Link to the Past]

I was never ever that into Haiji as an interesting character. I was really hoping that, when we as players learned that he liked children, they were doing it because they wanted us to grow to dislike him. Instead, pedophilia just became a "character trait". Part of me had this idea that he would turn out to be Adult H or something twisted like that.

Wants to be still doesn't mean trying to be. That's more of an allusion to his similarities to Makoto than anything else.

The context of that quote is as an explanation for why he tried to kill the DR2 cast.

 

[GoldStarz]

The context of that quote is as an explanation for why he tried to kill the DR2 cast.

I know the context. I also know that he never gets to actually explain his actions because the game glitches out and stops his recording from telling the kids about what's going on. All-in-all, it's a minor note compared to his real reason.

WELL....

....OKAY THEN.....

I think it was even weirder how the girls pretty much brushed it off, like "oh he's not gonna hit on us"

.....OH WOW...SO...according to the Danganronpa Wiki:

Just....I have no words...

Yeah Haiji kinda deserved all the shit he got.

He probably deserved worse to be honest.

 

[A Link to the Past]

I know the context. I also know that he never gets to actually explain his actions because the game glitches out and stops his recording from telling the kids about what's going on. All-in-all, it's a minor note compared to his real reason.

We can't rightly ignore that it's a part of his character though. All we know about him is that he has an inferiority complex - that does not necessarily entail that he doesn't want to be great. Perhaps Nagito is, ultimately, a person who thinks of himself as nothing, but deeply desires being something.

Later on in the speech, he says:

"Respect me..."
"Please call me... the Ultimate Hope."
"I believe my actions will become the foundation of this world's hope."
"Praise me."
"Tell others what I've accomplished."
"Erect a bronze statue of me."

At this point in his arc (or his mind's arc), Nagito is someone who thinks very highly of at least his actions, or he is someone who is so desperate to be great that he would go to any lengths.

I just do not understand why it's so definitive that Nagito could not be behind such an idea of cultivating Ultimate Despair to create Ultimate Hope. And if the dialogue from his message is anything to go on, it's very likely that his motives to do such a thing is for (in part) himself.

 

[Zonic]

I was never ever that into Haiji as an interesting character. I was really hoping that, when we as players learned that he liked children, they were doing it because they wanted us to grow to dislike him. Instead, pedophilia just became a "character trait". Part of me had this idea that he would turn out to be Adult H or something twisted like that.

Yeah, I think the intention was "he's on your side, but you're not suppose to like him", but then suddenly "OH BTW I LIKE YOUNG GIRLS, NOW LET'S BRUSH THAT OFF & CONTINUE THE MISSION" appears out of nowhere & that's all you can think of.

Hell, now that I'm aware of this, you'd think it'd play a part of how Monaca turned out, but no, he never liked her because he felt she'd destroy his family, so it's just a random trait that sticks out & really doesn't serve any purpose. I wouldn't mind hearing what the intent was.

I will say, the wiki will provide extra info that should serve me nicely when writing the paper. Seems the more info I find on AE, the more it seems this is the darkest game in the series.

 

[A Link to the Past]

In general I'm just frustrated that Adult H was nothing! Instead of sexualizing a child, the game could have done a great scene involving Adult H getting skewered. :v

I mean why even call him Adult H? That multiple adults correspond to a letter made me think we'd see him coming, but... :S

 

[GoldStarz]

Yeah, I think the intention was "he's on your side, but you're not suppose to like him", but then suddenly "OH BTW I LIKE YOUNG GIRLS, NOW LET'S BRUSH THAT OFF & CONTINUE THE MISSION" appears out of nowhere & that's all you can think of.

Hell, now that I'm aware of this, you'd think it'd play a part of how Monaca turned out, but no, he never liked her because he felt she'd destroy his family, so it's just a random trait that sticks out & really doesn't serve any purpose. I wouldn't mind hearing what the intent was.

I will say, the wiki will provide extra info that should serve me nicely when writing the paper. Seems the more info I find on AE, the more it seems this is the darkest game in the series.

I recommend checking out taichichin's tumblr, he's got a lot of translations from the art book on there.

 

[Zonic]

I recommend checking out taichichin's tumblr, he's got a lot of translations from the art book on there.

Oh cool, I used their guide for finding the collectibles, didn't know they had other stuff translated.

Wish Udon or someone would bring the artbooks to the US. The ones inclued with the LEs aren't all that great.

Anyways, yeah, now that I've got a nice source that collects a good amount of what I can use compared to replaying the game (I need to figure out what parts I want to use screenshots for. I'm totally using the "BTW, this is the opposite of child porn" line because holy crap, never expected seeing that in a video game), but I'll have a month to write it, so I should have more than enough time to do the research & such.

 

[Dangansona]

I have to read more of this thread, and I'll post more later if I'm convinced anyone I'd around to read it, but overall I loved the game and my two complaints would have to be the laser towa section being a major drag and the fact that the girls were so unwilling to kill children. Obviously not the brainwashed ones, and Nagisa seemed reasonable, but they caused so much death and we're obviously loony. I mean kill Monaca for fucks sake. It reminds me of how Batman won't kill the Joker despite the fact that fucker is always going to escape and kill people.

Also im a little bit sad Shirokuma turned out evil, I loved that dude (as well as Kirokuma, hilarious). I'm still not certain about the shiro reveal because I couldn't pay attention to the final cutscenes, need to look them up again on YouTube.

 

[cj_iwakura]

Wow. I was lead to believe this was a must-play for more of the mythos, but I didn't expect this much crazy town.

Knew there'd be more Junko, heh. Didn't expect Shirokuma being evil at all, though. Never saw that coming.

This game went to some real, real dark places, that's for sure. Looking forward to whatever comes next.

And I'm totally in the Toko/Komaru camp. There's subtlety then there's hitting you in the face with it. Their reactions had romantic tension all over it.


As for Junko constantly coming back, it's hard to mind. A, she's a great character. B, she's really gotten very little overall screentime.