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[Bubba_Sparks]

So even with higher Charisma you can only choose one option. Terrible, just terrible...

I am kind of curious as to why they went with this method? I'm guessing it was to have the conversation feel more natural, as opposed to going through a checklist of topics with each NPC. I'm guessing you wont be able to mine NPCs for information with it this way, so by choosing to ask about one topic you might not learn about another. It will be interesting to see how this plays out and how people react to it.

 

[Tigress]

I'm not sure if it's a he or a she, but I'm assuming she is a she, anyway:

More bits (and some good news), she has 4 CHA:

·She just did a mission where she could resolve it diplomatically. She tried it and the answers were in red or orange (low chance), she reloaded and put 2 points in relevant perks and was able to get though it by talking.
·More charisma doesn't open new dialog or information, but it lets you pass the charisma checks.
·Bad dialog system is bad: She saved a npc, after saving it, the npc asked her how she knew where he was and the options to answer were: don't tell, tell and ask about its past. She asked about the npc's past and after the answer there was no way of continuing the conversation to talk about the other topics.
·No hardcore mode.
·Some perks: STR 10 - Pain Train - If you wear a power armour you can sprint towards enemies to kill them or knock them out (robots and big enemies don't lose balance). PER 7 - Refractor - +10 resistance to energy. INT 9 - Nuclear Physicist - Rad weapons deal 50% more damage and the fusion nucleus last 25% more.
·No metro system or anything like that.
·No faction system.
·One big city so far (megaton sized or so) and several small settlements.
·Loves the sense of discovery, tons of small dungeons and such.
·Only been on part of the north side of the map, so the game is huge.
·Perk for RES9 - Necrophage - Radiation heals you.

Well good and bad. At least I have my charisma checks, that makes me a lot lot happier (even if dialogue suxx though maybe they aren't that simple with all NPCs... I can cross my fingers, right?). I just love charisma checks. Be even happier if you had int checks sometimes or even perception checks in dialgoue (I guess that's a lot to ask of Bethesda... probably would have to wait for an Obsidian game for that).

I'm disappointed there is no faction system (I was so hoping for that). Won't break the game for me but I really would have been ecstatic if they had one. Also, I liked karma damnit. Even if it got cheesy sometimes.

Oh, and boo to no hardcore mode. Oh well, we are getting mods on PS4 and maybe a hardcore mode will make it to PS4 (I don't know developing enough to know how possible that is). And it's not like I can't just enforce stuff on myself (and I will). As long as they are relying on beds to rest I'm sure I can reasonably expect to force myself to have to sleep and not be limited on where I can go (unlike some games that don't rely on sleep as a mechanic so trying to find a place to sleep would just take too much of the day and night to be able to do anything else). As well as I can force myself to eat and drink. It's just more fun when the game enforces it and now it will make stimpacks not so important when I'm recovering every night anyways just for the roleplay purposes (i was skeptical I'd like that beds didn't heal in hardcore mode in New Vegas but did find it kinda fun to have to worry about that. I originally just wanted the enforcing of sleeping and eating and everything else was just stuff I'd tolerate to have that. In hindsight only thing I didn't like was companions dieing). Maybe I"ll try to enforce no naps when I play (I did kinda cheat and it did feel like cheating in Fallout 3 by taking naps to avoid eating into my stimpack supply).

Rest of it I'm neutral on. But I'm relieved to hear of charisma checks at least.

 

[banefirelord]

Disappointed in no hardcore mode.

Also disappointed in no factions... is there at least a replacement in F4, or is it just building your own house and weapon modifications that are the focus?

Based on the leaked Achievements

Spoiler

there do seem to be a few factions to side with (Brotherhood of Steel, etc.) but not on the scale or granular level of NV, with the outfits and whatnot. Seems more like the Stormcloaks/Imperials from Skyrim (hopefully more nuanced?).

 

[ASTROID2]

Looks like we will need a dialog patch or mod fast. It's like the people doing the dialog stuff never played a Bethesda game before.

No factions? ;_;

 

[Santiako]

To clarify, he/she says no NV-like faction system. There is still is the usual bethesda style, like Skyrim's guilds etc

 

[Drazgul]

ok radiation healing is weird for me.

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Rad_Child was in New Vegas and Tactics too, and it was godly. Made you effectively immortal to anything but massive spiky damage (Deathclaws etc., but those tend to fuck you up anyway if they get to melee range). It was like having a permanent Stimpak effect on you at all times.

 

[rdytoroll]

I am kind of curious as to why they went with this method? I'm guessing it was to have the conversation feel more natural, as opposed to going through a checklist of topics with each NPC. I'm guessing you wont be able to mine NPCs for information with it this way, so by choosing to ask about one topic you might not learn about another. It will be interesting to see how this plays out and how people react to it.

I have no idea, I thought it was just fine as it was in the previous games. I like the checklists as you call them. They probably chose to get Voice Actors this time and in the next step decided to cut down the dialogue options, instead of the other way around. Why they insisted on a voiced main character, I'm not sure, it doesn't add that much imo.

 

[benny_a]

I have no idea, I thought it was just fine as it was in the previous games. I like the checklists as you call them. They probably chose to get Voice Actors this time and in the next step decided to cut down the dialogue options, instead of the other way around. Why they insisted on a voiced main character, I'm not sure, it doesn't add that much imo.

I think it adds a ton.

 

[Ultimadrago]

I am happy about no factions. The faction stories/system always sucked anyways.

I'm more concerned about not having additional options dependent on your build. Then again, I'm happy the "Chance" system is back making not every flag attempt a 100% guarantee.

Hmm

 

[foxtrot3d]

I'm trying to go into FO4 blind and don't want to take some random dude's word on things but the dialogue system sound horrid. How could they fuck up so badly? This is on top of them stating they worked hard on telling a story that would work with their type of open ended games. Jesus, just outsource all quest design and stories to Obsidian.

 

[Tovarisc]

I have no idea, I thought it was just fine as it was in the previous games. I like the checklists as you call them. They probably chose to get Voice Actors this time and in the next step decided to cut down the dialogue options, instead of the other way around. Why they insisted on a voiced main character, I'm not sure, it doesn't add that much imo.

People don't want to read in their video games?

I think it adds a ton.

If VA comes with cost of losing a lot possible dialogue depth then it can also be huge negative.

 

[TimeEffect]

Based on the leaked Achievements

Spoiler

there do seem to be a few factions to side with (Brotherhood of Steel, etc.) but not on the scale or granular level of NV, with the outfits and whatnot. Seems more like the Stormcloaks/Imperials from Skyrim (hopefully more nuanced?).

To clarify, he/she says no NV-like faction system. There is still is the usual bethesda style, like Skyrim's guilds etc

Ugh. The Stormcloaks thing felt so basic though.

So can we expect mod support to add stuff like hardcore? And soon?

I ask because I want to get this for PS4, but if mods can make this game better, Id just get it for PC. I am very, very skeptical of Bethesda allowing mods on PS4/console to work with any genuine freedom or meaningful impact

 

[Tigress]

I have no idea, I thought it was just fine as it was in the previous games. I like the checklists as you call them. They probably chose to get Voice Actors this time and in the next step decided to cut down the dialogue options, instead of the other way around. Why they insisted on a voiced main character, I'm not sure, it doesn't add that much imo.

As much as I agree with you about voice actors, there are sadly a lot who think a game must have one. Just being on the fallout reddit you get a lot of people bitching at those bitching about VA's that they needed to "update" the game and stop going with old outdated mechanics (I was told I was holding back progression by not wanting VA's). Mainstream sees not having VAs as something done only cause you couldn't and being old fashioned, not because it makes the game better.

 

[Kenzodielocke]

People don't want to read in their video games?

I hate it in Pillars of Eternity.

 

[rdytoroll]

People don't want to read in their video games?

Previous Bethesda games sold just fine..

Also Pillars of Eternity as said by someone else sold a good amount

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

I am kind of curious as to why they went with this method? I'm guessing it was to have the conversation feel more natural, as opposed to going through a checklist of topics with each NPC. I'm guessing you wont be able to mine NPCs for information with it this way, so by choosing to ask about one topic you might not learn about another. It will be interesting to see how this plays out and how people react to it.

This is what I'm thinking. It might not be optimal, but I'll probably be fine with it.

Don't really care about no hardcore mode. I just played through it once in New Vegas. Never felt a desire to try it again. Sucks for the people that liked it, but I'm sure it will be one of the first mods and will make its way to xbo and ps4 eventually.

the faction system was cool in New Vegas but not a necessity that needs to be carried forward.

 

[banefirelord]

Ugh. The Stormcloaks thing felt so basic though.

So can we expect mod support to add stuff like hardcore? And soon?

I ask because I want to get this for PS4, but if mods can make this game better, Id just get it for PC. I am very, very skeptical of Bethesda allowing mods on PS4/console to work with any genuine freedom or meaningful impact

Here's my recommendation (and what I'm personally doing): Get it on PS4, then sell it when the Creation Kit comes out on PC and the big mods start hitting and pick up a discounted PC copy.

 

[benny_a]

If VA comes with cost of losing a lot possible dialogue depth then it can also be huge negative.

It's a trade off due to the inflexible nature of production comparing voice acted lines and written only.

I won't know whether or not Fallout 4 will be an improvement over Fallout 3 when it comes to this until I've played Fallout 4, but in general I prefer voice acted lines.

So Bethesda choosing this trade-off speaks to me while it alienates other people. They did this before with not making a turn-based isometric Fallout 3.

 

[Basketball]

the casualization of games

 

[Klendathu]

I'm definitely less fussed about the dialogue system than others and really see it as a means to an end. I'll also reserve judgement until I've played it but I don't think it's going to impact my enjoyment.

Feel a bit sorry for others though.

 

[ANDS]

the casualization of games

Right. They should design a game only with some rigid complex system in mind ignoring their own philosophy of a game being fun just to satisfy a ln uber minority of the gamer population.

 

[Zombie James]

Right. They should design a game only with some rigid complex system in mind ignoring their own philosophy of a game being fun just to satisfy a ln uber minority of the gamer population.

How is dialog a "rigid complex system"? Is everyone forgetting Mass Effect exists? You can have large scale and fully-voiced games that don't limit your dialog choices.

 

[Venture]

I'd really like some more clarification on the lack of Hardcore mode and what exactly Survivor difficulty is. I don't know why they'd add a whole new difficulty option just for even tougher enemies.

 

[foxtrot3d]

How is dialog a "rigid complex system"? Is everyone forgetting Mass Effect exists? You can have large scale and fully-voiced games that don't limit your dialog choices.

Some people are weirdos with rose-tinted glasses who believe the apex of RPG's and storytelling was a time when you had to read entire pages worth of text to understand a story. There is nothing wrong with a voiced protagonist or NPC's, what is wrong is crap writing and the limiting of dialogue choices.

 

[Tovarisc]

Right. They should design a game only with some rigid complex system in mind ignoring their own philosophy of a game being fun just to satisfy a ln uber minority of the gamer population.

I think RPG's aren't for you if you feel that in-depth and extensive dialogue [VA'd or not] is "rigid complex system". Most of players who love RPG's expect "rigid complex systems" like extensive amounts of dialogue with people in the game.

 

[jesu]

The Spanish guy didn't say you could only ask about one topic, but he did say most of the time you can only ask about one topic.

Not great either way :-/

Then, as in previous games you could spend a long time asking and informing on groups, cities, war and others (were questions that, in turn, opened three or four options dialog) here most times there is only one ask for character and little else

 

[Lionel Horsepackage]

the casualization of games

Whatever. Drama-queen.

 

[Lakitu]

The Spanish guy didn't say you could only ask about one topic, but he did say most of the time you can only ask about one topic.

Not great either way :-/

This is easily the most disappointing thing I've heard so far.

 

[Tigress]

I'm trying to go into FO4 blind and don't want to take some random dude's word on things but the dialogue system sound horrid. How could they fuck up so badly? This is on top of them stating they worked hard on telling a story that would work with their type of open ended games. Jesus, just outsource all quest design and stories to Obsidian.

I could totally go with that compromise.

 

[Tigress]

I think RPG's aren't for you if you feel that in-depth and extensive dialogue [VA'd or not] is "rigid complex system". Most of players who love RPG's expect "rigid complex systems" like extensive amounts of dialogue with people in the game.

Pretty much.

I guess though the problem is that Bethesda wants to make more money (I mean that is the purpose in the end is to make money so I can't say we can blame them on that one). And in general the general audience doesn't want too much complication and just catering to RPG fans isn't going to get as large an audience as they want/need (do keep in mind they are making a large game that takes years to make so they do have to make it pay off enough to do that).

So those of us who want a well done RPG lose out .

I guess it is what it is. I still think overall it can still be a good game. But I'm not sure it's going to be a good RPG :/.

 

[pahamrick]

I could totally go with that compromise.

The only downside is that two of the three major writers that worked on New Vegas are no longer at Obsidian.

 

[Plasmid]

Im really surprised we haven't seen any myfreecam streams of FO4.

 

[Jito]

the casualization of games

The Fallout games were never overly complicated or outside of mainstream appeal, get over it.

 

[hobblygobbly]

"And no, Survival mode does not come with fatigue/thirst/hunger like Hardcore mode in NV."

I don't understand, then what is Survival mode? Is it just enemy difficulty? Why even call it "Survival" then?

 

[TimeEffect]

"And no, Survival mode does not come with fatigue/thirst/hunger like Hardcore mode in NV."

I don't understand, then what is Survival mode? Is it just enemy difficulty? Why even call it "Survival" then?

Yeah, if it's just a harder difficulty... then Wtf

How exactly do they not carry over something like hardcore when those features are *exactly* what fans fantasize about when it comes to a game like this

Maybe resources are at least rarer?

 

[Tovarisc]

"And no, Survival mode does not come with fatigue/thirst/hunger like Hardcore mode in NV."

I don't understand, then what is Survival mode? Is it just enemy difficulty? Why even call it "Survival" then?

Enemies do 5x more damage with 10x more HP while game is a lot stingier with ammo and healing items?

 

[RedSwirl]

It's kind of only just hit me that Fallout 4 is going to be the first current-gen immersive sim.

 

[pahamrick]

Yeah, if it's just a harder difficulty... then Wtf

How exactly do they not carry over something like hardcore when those features are *exactly* what fans fantasize about when it comes to a game like this

Maybe resources are at least rarer?

I'm thinking hardcore mode fans might be in the minority. I love Fallout, but hated hardcore mode.

 

[Trace]

I'm thinking hardcore mode fans might be in the minority. I love Fallout, but hated hardcore mode.

I would be shocked if more than 10% of players played on hardcore mode. 5% seems generous to me.

 

[Venture]

The person leaking all this has said they're playing on Hard. So I'm not sure how much they really know about Survivor. I suppose there's a brief description of it in the options menu.

 

[pahamrick]

I would be shocked if more than 10% of players played on hardcore mode. 5% seems generous to me.

Same, actually -- It's not even that I dislike that particular feature as I love The Long Dark, it just felt like something that was shoehorned in for artificial difficulty instead of being something that was organically part of the game. I don't know, it's hard for me to explain.

 

[Cc23830]

Ive learnt far too much today from this thread. Im out. Self imposed blackout starts tonight

 

[brokenbeans]

Xbox knocked off £5 on digital so I jumped in.

Bring it.

 

[Easton Dark]

I would be shocked if more than 10% of players played on hardcore mode. 5% seems generous to me.

Checking steam achievements, 4.6% of players played on hardcore from start to finish.

That does not include people who never finished, or who stopped using hardcore partway through, so 5% seems like a good place to round it to assuming console statistics are similar.

 

[Trace]

Checking steam achievements, 4.6% of players played on hardcore from start to finish.

That does not include people who never finished, or who stopped using hardcore partway through, so 5% seems like a good place to round it to assuming console statistics are similar.

So I was right for once? There's a first for everything I guess. Tales from my ass wins today.

 

[banefirelord]

The Fallout games were never overly complicated or outside of mainstream appeal, get over it.

Yeah, seriously. I played Fallout 2 for the first time last month and I was shocked at how straightforward it was, especially after hearing all the internet criticism at how dumbed down Bethesda's mechanics were. Writing aside, the actual interactive mechanics in Fallout 3/NV are a pretty good first person interpretation of the original systems.

 

[benny_a]

So I was right for once? There's a first for everything I guess. Tales from my ass wins today.

New Vegas was before Steam achievements were possible to be made server side, so depending on how high you think the percentage of people you believe to be achievement cheaters you might be off by a bit. ;-)

 

[Enduin]

Don't really care about Hardcore mode missing. It was only somewhat interesting to me in NV.

The Basic Needs aspect though was a joke. Bullets having weight, reducing what items can heal limbs, Stimpacks healing over time(which is in FO4) were good additions. But having to Eat/Sleep/Drink regularly were pointless as the game was not balanced around it. The systems themselves were rather shallow, but the fact that gaining caps and finding all the resources you need to survive were always in abundance made for an annoying system that really didn't matter or add anything to the game.

The reports on dialogue are definitely troubling. I was hoping Bethesda would get their shit together on that front, but it doesn't seem like they have. Very bizarre design choices from what we've been told. Hopefully it's not as big a deal, and from what they're saying the game still is very good. I'll know for myself come Monday morning.

 

[Trace]

New Vegas was before Steam achievements were possible to be made server side, so depending on how high you think the percentage of people you believe to be achievement cheaters you might be off by a bit. ;-)

Don't ruin this for me

 

[Disxo]

Spanish guy leak link pls.