A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Didn't they already go over the Goku and Vegeta weakness last episode I could have sworn they did
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Dragon Ball Super |OT| 28 Episodes Later
- Thread starter Snaku
- Start date
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Parallax Scroll
Banned
I liked the episode
NeonZ
Member
Whis had mentioned only Vegeta's.
Astral Dog
Member
Other translation said they lost 70% of their forces, and they hope with Frieza they can get their army back on track.
Anyways, boring episode the only new thing was Ginyu and a brief conversation of Frieza by Sorbet and Tagoma that was not in the movie
LordOfChaos
Member
"When the god of the earth changed, I got an upgrade" - when was this, exactly? Does it mean Dende? That was a while ago though and I'm pretty sure he was summoned between now and then and didn't give three wishes. Well, they covered that with "bringing back everyone on earth counts as two", but he never said it before either. 'Dem non-sleek retcons.
For the part where they showed the simulation? That's quite a different translation then, going from "he could help us control 70% of the universe" to "we've lost 70% of our forces"? Are you sure both weren't in it? They were talking about their force losses before they showed the simulation with Freiza back.
For the part where they showed the simulation? That's quite a different translation then, going from "he could help us control 70% of the universe" to "we've lost 70% of our forces"? Are you sure both weren't in it? They were talking about their force losses before they showed the simulation with Freiza back.
As shocking as it may sound, a lot of people do like GT even if it's not technically official canon.
I'd actually argue GT is paced better than DBZ. The arcs are much shorter - more similar to Dragon Ball than Z.
*raises hand* I liked GT
NeonZ
Member
The 70% of the universe translation is correct. Anyway, I think "Galactic Empire" was just used because it's a better sounding translation. The word associated with Freeza's Empire was always just 宇宙, which means Space or Universe, never 銀河 or 星雲(Galaxy).
That was mentioned in the Buu Saga, including the 2 wishes clause. 3 wishes are initially mentioned when Shenlong is summoned in Bulma's house. The 2 wishes clause for ressurecting multiple people is mentioned by Piccolo right before Goku goes to face Fat Buu. By the end of the Buu Saga, Toriyama seemed to have forgotten it and gone back to 2 wishes though (it came out of nowhere in the first place, since Shenlong originally granted 2 wishes after Dende brought it back).
In the Buu Saga, when Shenlong is summoned on Bulma's house, it's initially said that, after using one wish, with two remaining, they'd need to wait 4 months to summon Shenlong again rather than the full 12 months if they had used all 3 wishes. Piccolo in a later scene reveals that they actually had used two wishes due to resurrecting many people at once. However, by the end of the arc, rather than waiting 8 months to summon Shenlong (2 out of 3 wishes), they talk about needing to wait 6 months, which seems to suggests that he had granted one out of two wishes.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
This episode was almost verbatim the first 30 minutes of the movie lol
but grandpa piccolo gives me life
but grandpa piccolo gives me life
TheRealTalker
Banned
okay Ginyu being involved later on made me interested
loved the dude
loved the dude
VanquishUK
Member
Liked the subtle differences in the new opening.
Dat Frieza strut
To all the people who say we shouldn't complain for the dumb shit in DBS because it's futile....have any of y'all been inside a Dexter, True Blood, or Sons of Anarchy thread?
I thought Gohan was completely capable of going SSJ2, just that he was weaker than when he went SSJ2 as a kid?
Why did they use such hideous footage for the flashback? That was so goddamned jarring.
I thought Gohan was completely capable of going SSJ2, just that he was weaker than when he went SSJ2 as a kid?
Why did they use such hideous footage for the flashback? That was so goddamned jarring.
I think the dude still needs to be emotionally unstable to hit SSJ2. He was pretty ticked off when with Kibito.
NeonZ
Member
Many people assume that he's using SSJ2 whenever he transforms into SSJ starting from the Kibito scene, even if there's no visual indication (unlike for everyone else). That scene is the only one where his aura is actually drawn in a SSJ2 style in the Buu Saga. There's even a chapter where you get Vegeta and Goku in SSJ2 in one page and in another Gohan, in a page right after that, doesn't have the SSJ2 aura.
There's also another issue with that - the design of Gohan's SSJ form itself is different when he uses in the tournament (when Videl is getting beaten up) compared to how it looked before (when he was training or fighting bandits in town). Some people argue that the design change is actually the SSJ2 design, but he doesn't have a SSJ2 aura, nor anyone mentions him going "beyond SSJ" the first time he looks like that during the tournament. Like I said, the situation is kind of confusing, which is why you get people disagreeing about which form he was using after the Kibito scene.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
What was the deal about Mystic/Unleashed Gohan not needing to go Super Saiyan? Had he just not trained in so long that the power increase became substantial again?
Old Kai said transforming is just for show in Gohan's case after getting his potential unlocked (again), but I don't think Toriyama much cares for that rule anymore.
Black Samurai
Banned
Gohan is definitely SSJ2 when he fights Dabura. Gokua and Vegeta even remark that they underestimated Dabura, and that Gohan is weaker than he was against Cell
http://kissmanga.com/Manga/Dragon-Ball/Chapter-455?id=249714
NeonZ
Member
You shouldn't post links to a manga scan site here... Like I said above many people argue that he should be using SSJ2 there, but he's not visually drawn like that, unlike Goku and Vegeta - and there's even a chapter with all three transformed and Gohan still lacks the SSJ2 aura. However, the manga never gives any direct explanation for him not using SSJ2 there, just the references about how he should be stronger and he isn't tapping into his anger, which is why many people believe that he is a SSJ2. The whole scenario is kind of inconsistent.
Supreme Kai said that transformations are just for show. Later he also makes a comment about how SSJ overstresses the user's body.
That was always kind of odd considering Goku's and Gohan's training for the Cell games. Anyway, currently the official position is that SSJ2 and 3 are flawed power ups, but the original SSJ is relevant.
In the show itself, there's even Whis, who says that by becoming stronger they should be able to draw forth a much greater power as SSJs, which probably will lead to SSJGSS.
Supreme Kai said that transformations are just for show. Later he also makes a comment about how SSJ overstresses the user's body.
That was always kind of odd considering Goku's and Gohan's training for the Cell games. Anyway, currently the official position is that SSJ2 and 3 are flawed power ups, but the original SSJ is relevant.
In the show itself, there's even Whis, who says that by becoming stronger they should be able to draw forth a much greater power as SSJs, which probably will lead to SSJGSS.
Oh for sure, you're right it'd explain why Xenoverse included extra scenarios and characters from it.
We don't really know if where it stands on canon though. I don't imagine Toriyama's involvement with the story has any real say on official continuity of the franchise. Or to spin it another way: His involvement with the series can be so scattered and loose, it's probably not worth shacking the brain over what is and isn't official in his context.
Like, I cannot at all imagine that
Super Saiyan Blue
NeonZ
Member
Toriyama actually wrote the initial script for the movie. However, I think it's kind of notable that in Toriyama's original script itself, and even in the final movie, there's no name for the new form. It's just "Super Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God". I wouldn't be surprised if he originally intended them to still have blond hair there and blue came from Toei or Bandai wanting a new form to market.
BladeoftheImmortal
Member
Loved piccolo's scene with pan.he's the best. Wish he gets a powerup.
As far as I'm concerned, GT is grunge 90s/00s continuity and Super is not-baggy-clothing continuity.
I can't really grasp how you can came to this conclusion.
Super Saiyan Blue makes perfect sense. The Saiyan god in the flashback had the trademark ssj hair, and Goku was weaker than he should have been, as stated by Beerus. Hell Goku even lost. That obviously foreshadowed that the form wasn't complete.
As for Super, he wrote BoG and RoF as a direct continuation, he never wrote anything for GT. So yeah you're wrong.
Just like Jaco's inclusion. He wrote that too, now he's "canon" .
FreeMufasa
Junior Member
Random but does anyone else like how it seems Tien never forgives vegeta for the Saiyan arc. Maybe I'm not remembering correctly but I remember a few points where he challenges the dude or just shows utter disdain for him.
LordOfChaos
Member
It kind of makes the most sense to be honest. "You blew up planets for the S&G? Ah, it's cool, you came back with a halo that one time" from other characters makes less sense.
I still like Vegeta...But the in-universe forgiveness is an extreme.
KidA Seven
Member
Tien recognizes that Dragon Ball was better with him and the other humans relevant. Now where's my Yajirobe?
NeonZ
Member
Those scenes were mainly in the Cell Saga. Tenshinhan goes all "Vegeta, you're still on Earth?!" when meeting him when everyone gathers due to Freeza's arrival. Later on, after SSJ Vegeta's battle, he also shows some dislike at him increasing his power so much. He also makes a negative remark at the Saiyan armor made by Bulma, IIRC. Although not directly, there's also his comment about how he'd probably never meet them again at the end, showing how he felt rather distant from the others.
That side of his character hasn't been referenced in any of his modern appearances though.
He also wasn't on Namek where we basically found out Frieza made Vegeta his fuckboi.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Yeah he challenges him early on in the "Future Trunks arc", but Piccolo I think stops him, saying they have other enemies (Mecha Freeza and King Cold) to deal with.
Makes sense IMO since Tien never went to Namek and thus never saw Vegeta "change".
EDIT: Beaten like a low-level Freeza soldier
Oh, really? That's interesting. In hindsight, it explains why Goku's SSJ form suddenly had blue hair in spite of that twist in Battle of Gods...
...Except for this, where we have fans treating authors like they are the one and only true Prophet, subjecting themselves to endless lust for the newest info.
This is totally okay and acceptable now because Toriyama wrote it. Canon. Don't diss.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
...Except for this, where we have fans treating authors like they are the one and only true Prophet, subjecting themselves to endless lust for the newest info.
This is totally okay and acceptable now because Toriyama wrote it. Canon. Don't diss.
I fail to see the problem with this image
Chaotic-Strike
Banned
It's because Gohan lost his "mystic" power up and now goes Super Saiyan but at least in this unlike GT you can hand wave it as Gohan stop training and lost the form.
In contrast to GT, where it says in the Perfect Files that he was training yet doesn't give any explanation why he goes SSJ now.
NeonZ
Member
It's not only the Perfect Files, in GT itself, Piccolo mentions that Gohan had gotten stronger in his good bye episode, IIRC.
Still, I think the new movie was just ignoring the implication that SSJ would be useless for Gohan post ultimate. He mentions that he's uncertain about turning into a SSJ, and that quote was often used in the marketing, but there's nothing said about the ultimate power up. I got the impression that it was more about "Gohan is so lazy and incompetent he never explored the full extent of his new power" rather than "Gohan was so lazy he completely lost his new power". I guess Super might clear things up one way or another.
Tenshinhan doesn't forgive Vegeta at that point cause Ten is an asshole
Yamsha has shared some beers and bbqs with vegeta and even prolly gave him bro advice on bulma, and he has little trouble with the saiyan prince; Ten never shows up for Bulma's bbqs and at best shows up for her birthday
Yamsha has shared some beers and bbqs with vegeta and even prolly gave him bro advice on bulma, and he has little trouble with the saiyan prince; Ten never shows up for Bulma's bbqs and at best shows up for her birthday
Gohan entirely gave up fighting. He couldn't even find his dogi. The super saiyan was the "last straw".
Mystic Gohan was not a transformation, it was unlocking his latent potential.
Months on focusing on his career, family, and friends, made him lose that potential. While he could in theory re-access it, his natural instinct is to go Super Saiyan to get more power.
Also, he turned Super Saiyan because of anger. I assume that's more of a reflex thing too.
We already saw him juggle between the two powers in Super, he had ultimate form when attacking Beerus, and Super Saiyan when participating in the ritual.
In battle of Gods, they made Gohan SSJ, and after fans' outcry, they fixed it and gave him mystic form.
Same thing happened in RoF except they kept him as a SSJ, so it's intentional, not a case of "they forgot".
Mystic Gohan was not a transformation, it was unlocking his latent potential.
Months on focusing on his career, family, and friends, made him lose that potential. While he could in theory re-access it, his natural instinct is to go Super Saiyan to get more power.
Also, he turned Super Saiyan because of anger. I assume that's more of a reflex thing too.
We already saw him juggle between the two powers in Super, he had ultimate form when attacking Beerus, and Super Saiyan when participating in the ritual.
In battle of Gods, they made Gohan SSJ, and after fans' outcry, they fixed it and gave him mystic form.
Same thing happened in RoF except they kept him as a SSJ, so it's intentional, not a case of "they forgot".
I saw people had issues with the latest episode but I thought it was a better version of the movie. I liked it. The added humor worked for me and the manner in which it expanded the narrative and characterization of people like Takoma was great. I will laugh my ass off if those rumors posted earlier in the thread turn out true.
There was a Ginyu Frog in this episode too.......
Yeah, I liked the latest episode. Gave a little bit of extra detail, was good, did enjoy.
FRIEZA FRIEZA FRIEZAAA
FRIEZA FRIEZA FRIEZAAA
Gohan is a Saiyan beyond Mystic. He's a Super Saiyan Mystic Gohan.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Yamcha forgives because he's a weakling.
Tien has no reason to show up to Bulma's parties. Did he ever talk to her at all?
ArchedThunder
Banned
So now the only good subers left for Super got a cease and desist from Toei...
I have an idea Toei, do a simulcast and people won't bother with fansubs!
I have an idea Toei, do a simulcast and people won't bother with fansubs!
NeonZ
Member
We saw him turning SSJ during a ritual where even Videl got golden hair, I don't think that's quite the same as turning SSJ by himself.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Gohan went SSJ in that scene so Freeza could talk about Super Saiyans
He was super saiyan before the ritual began, and after the ritual failed, Videl's hair turned back to black, his didn't. Was also the case in Battle of Gods where Videl didn't get golden hair.
So you're right saying it's not quite the same. It's literally the same.
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