SolicitorPirate
Member
Is it? Breitbart regularly strokes up gamergate and points them towards targets to harass. And this isn't even considering all the shit they pulled against BLM, feminists and the LGBT community.
The Game Awards jury lists only 2 women out of 32 jurors (sites selected jurors)
- Thread starter Lime
- Start date
Is it? Breitbart regularly strokes up gamergate and points them towards targets to harass. And this isn't even considering all the shit they pulled against BLM, feminists and the LGBT community.
Sephiroth_VII
Member
So... This adds up to ~84% males, and ~16% females. I would say that the VGA's got the ratio pretty much right.
Seriously, how can the journalists complain when their own staff roster looks like this??
Sure, many don't like those 2 outlets for various reasons...but I don't think it's grounds to be outraged about it all? You don't have to partake in the whole thing? If you don't like IGN or whatever game press outlet...you just avoid it?
What was your dream? If you don't mind me asking.
stufte
Member
The eSports journalist isn't Breitbart. He even said that the awards show should have had more women on the judging panel.
Besides, this isn't a BLM, feminist or LGBT awards show, it's an awards show for video games.This guy is an eSports journalist, so it makes sense that he would be invited to advise on esports.
For those saying that this is making an issue out of a non-issue: when we have ongoing violence and hate being espoused against women in the industry, I think this is more than a minor issue.
Do these awards "matter"? Not in the sense that I care who wins. But they certainly do matter in how visibly the industry continues to make gender inequality seem "normal." Is it any wonder that people can feel safe in speaking hatred and violence against women?
Do these awards "matter"? Not in the sense that I care who wins. But they certainly do matter in how visibly the industry continues to make gender inequality seem "normal." Is it any wonder that people can feel safe in speaking hatred and violence against women?
You know the saying, can't spell...
as for Breitbart, it is something else.
We're talking about an outlet making shit to smear a public person for no reason other than them being a minority.
the only reason they even are on GG's side is because they see it as a recruiting tool for their political agenda and a quick way to make money.
It would be less out of place to have someone from fox&friend in that panel.
I guess this goes well with the shitshow it was last year where they couldn't even condemn a hate group by name.
This industry is really cowardly at times.
SolicitorPirate
Member
The issue, and I can not believe this needs explaining in 2015, is that game criticism is inherently subjective. Games are no longer purely mechanical affairs and haven't been for years.
Ones experiences and perspectives shape how we react to and interpret media. To take an easy example, can you honestly tell me a group of inner city black youths would likely form the same opinions of Battlefield Hardline as a group of middle class white college accountants?
By having critical voices be largely coalesced around young, white guys, we over value anything that appeals to that demographic while devaluing or even ignoring anything that doesn't.
BlastProcessing
Member
The classic mountain vs. molehill analogy is used as a way to dismiss problems. Just because a problem isn't the largest one out there doesn't mean it can't be acknowledged. Calling out Geoff about this doesn't mean that he is a monster who should be punished. They are simply asking the person who is in the best situation to change things to consider it.
Saying that Geoff should absolutely not be held accountable, in any way, for the makeup of the jury of his own award show is the precise type of "group warfare" absolutism that you are fighting against.
Social inequality is rarely about ill intent. It's the imperceived actions that keep the ball rolling. The world isn't full of super villains, it's mostly people trying to do their best. It's all far more complicated than judging intent. Which again, only simplifies issues into "groups".
So why the perpetual mental gymnastics from people defending outlets that do not even live up to their own chosen political standards? I cannot count how many times I have read people defend Gawker because it was being attacked by "a right wing hate mob." And yet the moment Gawker lays some writers off, you have a woman writing a lengthy blog post about how bad of a place it is to work for women.
These companies control who they hire and who they let go, not Geoff Keighley or some eSports commentator. The whole thing is a vapid marketing vehicle to begin with.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
I don't think it's that farfetched to say that having someone not affiliated with a Gamergate trumpet would be a better choice for the spot as I highly doubt he's the only one qualified for this.
But in all honesty, the goal for this is to get names with recognition and that's what they went for.
VendettaRed07
Member
SolicitorPirate
Member
And the victims of gamergate were largely members of the games industry, which is the industry these awards claim to be a part of. No amount of mental gymnastics is going to be able to separate Breitbart's role in gamergate from the game awards.
Sephiroth_VII
Member
How is representing the current distribution of men and women in the industry "defending gender inequality"?
Isn't it better that we show straight up how unbalanced the industry is, then discuss how to fix that? To me, the suggestion that we should artificially make a "fair" jury is not just completely ridiculous, it's also harmful. It's hiding the problem, not solving it. If you really think this is a problem, encourage the VGA staff to confront the issue during the show, talk about it for ~5 minutes, and encourage any female viewers watching to come join the industry.
That might actually do something.
Because ensuring that women and minorities are heard more in institutions such as these help to address the prevailing issue.
No I meant that it was a weird attempt to show that comparisons of quotas for this jury and quotas in other areas aren't the same.
Geoff just trying to give the community a decent and entertaining awards event. I'm sure hes got more important things to worry about -- like actually making the event worthwhile and not a huge money sink.
The dude is gambling a lot of his own money on these events.
Then again any publicity is good publicity, I guess?
The dude is gambling a lot of his own money on these events.
Then again any publicity is good publicity, I guess?
-=::[Eagle-Vision]::=-
Banned
What's wrong with the group being superficially homogeneous? Do they all hold the same beliefs and think alike?
AyaisMUsikWhore
Member
But it would have been better to see the better half of the people that they are encouraging to join also BE apart of the panel that IS encouraging those to join.
What's encouraging about watching a bunch of white men who could have just asked some of the many popular female journalist to join the panel, just go straight to ignoring them but instead discuss the issue amongst each other and then say "come"? What example did that just set there? What's encouraging about that?
Make no mistake that women are very aware of the terrible things that are being said about women in the industry and if we can't even discuss it in an open forum amongst other men, then what's the point? Telling us what's good for us rather than allowing us the agency to speak on these issues and thus calling forth women who are battling with the idea of joining this industry because of it, is the better idea?
I don't think so.
Again, I just don't understand the mindset that quotas must be set for these sorts of things. I would not care at all if the panel were all/mainly women. Would there be outcry if that happened? Of course not. It doesn't actually matter. GOTY awards are just opinions. We all know Fallout 4 will most likely get it. I don't really like the game. My choices would be vastly different. How having certain gender mixes will have a good/bad outcome? All we now is IGN is there and they'll just say 720p IS FINE
0.1.1.2.3.5.8.13.21.34.55
Banned
Well the musical performance is 33.333333333333333etc% female... So, there's that.
Sephiroth_VII
Member
Can you really not see that demanding that every member of any assembly of experts should be chosen primarily based on gender and ethnicity, rather than merit, is detrimental to whatever industry that assembly is supposed to evaluate?
I mean, I've said this before, but we can't really stop at women, can we? Why is no one outraged at the lack of Muslims, Indians, Asians, Africans, etc, on the jury? It just ends up getting ridiculously complicated.
Let's face it; the only reason the lack of women is being brought up here, whilst ignoring the lack of equal representation for other ethnicities, is because feminism is the big thing on the internet right now. Instead of doing this pointless astroturfing, we should be trying to figure out why there are so few women in the industry, and whether it's even something we can solve. If it is solveable, the next step is to figure out how to go about it, not artificially creating an image of equality.
Atomic Playboy
Member
-=::[Eagle-Vision]::=-;185988596 said:
Not necessarily, but statistically they're more likely to think similar thoughts than a group that is more diverse. And isn't it better if your jury is at least superficially representative of your audience? Gaming is not 95% men.
Let's be fair, is there any chance for this to happen like at all?
Would we care if the panel was only aboriginal ladies in their mid 50's?
Who cares it's never happening.
They can talk all they want how they want to be more inviting and open but this clearly show they don't give a shit at all.
If we were talking about a jury of experts about something, yeah of course choose the bests of the bests (even more so if there's lives at stake).
But we're talking about an award ceremony here.
SolicitorPirate
Member
And this is just about gender alone. Let's not forget gaming sure as hell isn't 90% white either.
Atomic Playboy
Member
So do you think if this awards show had approached IGN or Gamespot and said "hey, can you send over a woman video game reviewer to serve on our jury," the response would have been "oh, our women are desperately unqualified for that, but we've got plenty of men whose opinions should be respected"? Why is it assumed that a woman in the industry wouldn't have "merit" but a man automatically does?
Sephiroth_VII
Member
You think it's empowering and encouraging that someone is put on a panel not because of their skills, but because of their gender? I would find it insulting, but maybe that's just me.
Of course not. However, like I argued earlier in the thread, it is very likely that there are more experienced male reviewers, because there ARE more male reviewers. Which is why, currently, in this industry, the member of staff with the highest level of "merit" as a reviewer is likely to be a male, yes.
Of course they could have sent a woman if asked, but going back to my reply above, is that really empowering for the woman chosen in place of the man?
BreezyLimbo
Banned
I mean, wouldn't that be sexist to do that? Just like if a man was chosen just because of his gender, then a women being chosen just because of her gender would be the same thing.
What kind of specific skillset do you need to be part of the Game Awards jury?
autoduelist
Member
No, it's not equally bad. It's worse.
You'd prefer a world in which this group was mandated by law to represent the current diversity percentages? Do we use worldwide statistics or local statistics for your ideal? While we're putting in gender quotas, we should also add ethnicity/race quotas as well, right? Religion? Eye color? Disabilities? Income level? At what point do we stop enforcing diversity once we begin? When it suits you?
Or, on the other hand, we can allow free societies filled with free individuals to freely choose who panels some relatively meaningless competition. They might not always choose a group that meets your [or mine] preferred criteria, but at least we're not enforcing diversity for the sake of diversity. A free society should see the dangers of such force clearly without it needing to even be explained.
The world isn't always going to look like you want it to. Forcing others to obey your mandate is not the solution. There are many other avenues to pursue. Using force to mandate something as meaningless as a judging panel is the realm of bureaucrats and fascists.
SolicitorPirate
Member
Are you honestly suggesting female journalists are so comically incompetent the only way for their views to heard is by quota?
You need to chug Mountain Dew.
D
Deleted member 126221
Unconfirmed Member
The insulting part is you assuming having more women means they'd likely be less skilled, IMO.
Vault Dweller 111
Member
Every person in the gaming media that I follow be it podcast, show, article, etc. is a guy. I couldn't name one female in the gaming industry media. Maybe that speaks to a bigger issue. But when it comes to the judges for this award show, the number does not surprise me even a little bit.
Unless you think Geoff was purposely being sexist when picking the judges (which I don't) I just can't feign outrage over this.
prag16
Banned
You totally lost me. No need to explain further. This topic is going nowhere, and is being removed from my subscription list.
Have finally found the God the Doritos Pope is bowing to?
The bold speaks more about you than anything really.
-=::[Eagle-Vision]::=-
Banned
This may have been brought before in the thread but, can we get some opinions from actual female critics on this subject? All I see is a lot of proxy outrage.
The audience who actually cares enough to watch shows like this is.
The audience who actually cares enough to watch shows like this is.
AyaisMUsikWhore
Member
You are saying this as if there aren't women who are more than qualified in the industry to state their opinion which is bs. Another thing that is also grating is this quantity over everything that's also argued. Just because a male journalist had 100+ articles to his resume doesn't mean 95% of them were of actual quality. And just because a women has 75, doesn't mean hers are automatically less qualified and crap.
Women who play games and have reviewed them are qualified to state their opinion, especially in an industry where half the journalist do not make games but critique them. This sounds like women are less capable of "understanding" video games than men when that's just not the case. They exist and it's insulting that with everything they do, they still are jumped over because they are at a serious disadvantage due to exposure.
Royal Rainbow
Member
-=::[Eagle-Vision]::=-;185989805 said:
So you're saying all women gamers are casuals?
D
Deleted member 126221
Unconfirmed Member
Your loss. There are plenty of interesting women writing about games. Not nearly enough, but if you view gaming medias as 100% male, that's sad. Broaden your horizons.
Vault Dweller 111
Member
Yep. I'm a sexist pig who actively avoids all females in the industry.
-=::[Eagle-Vision]::=-;185989805 said:
You gotta wonder why though...
If you meant to say that you not knowing any females in the industry is because there aren't any, it is more telling on you and your interests than it does the industry.
-=::[Eagle-Vision]::=-
Banned
No, but most don't care as much about the industry itself.
My guess is different priorities in life.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
In all actuality, I'd be surprised if Keighley had much direct involvement with the selection process.
Source? Or just Tales from your Cheeks
-=::[Eagle-Vision]::=-;185990219 said:
Source? Or just Tales from your Cheeks