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[TheSeks]

And why was the release limited?

Because it was an indie film like most other indies that "nobody gives a shit about."

OH NOES THIS FOREIGN FILM DIDN'T GET PICKED UP IN WIDE RELEASE! PEOPLE DON'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT IT!

It's niche, just like foreign "art-house" films that don't get wide releases. That doesn't mean people don't "give a shit" about anime. It just means the target is niche.

If you had something like Akira that got really blown up and had a wide-release that still bombed? You'd have a better argument for "nobody gives a shit."

 

[cashman]

Yeah, I mean, shit. There's a list of season highlights, even if it's in jest, those are the shows that stand out. There's a list of all anime for the current season, what day they air, where to watch them, and an anichart with a quick summary and genre breakdown of each show. There's even some rules established with what is and isn't acceptable.

By comparison, what the fuck is this shit?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1141385
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1132949
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1131533
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1117117
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1104914
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1132190

Did you even click on any of those links?

 

[Klossen]

Because it was an indie film like most other indies that "nobody gives a shit about."

OH NOES THIS FOREIGN FILM DIDN'T GET PICKED UP IN WIDE RELEASE! PEOPLE DON'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT IT!

It's niche, just like foreign "art-house" films that don't get wide releases. That doesn't mean people don't "give a shit" about anime. It just means the target is niche.

If you had something like Akira that got really blown up and had a wide-release that still bombed? You'd have a better argument for "nobody gives a shit."

Kaguya isn't art-house indie. It's a big production.

 

[Mass_Pincup]

Kaguya isn't art-house indie. It's a big production.

I don't really consider a movie with a $50M budget as a big production.

 

[dity]

Watching Resurrection 'F' in theaters with other DBZ fans was the only time I felt like anime was mainstream. It was a great experience.

I gotta say, I went on opening day and it was insane. But it was also nothing like going to a convention at the same time.

 

[User 73706]

"Creepy is just a buzzword used when people don't want to bother putting any actual thought into arguments against underage girls being thrown into compromising positions in skimpy outfits"

 

[patapuf]

I don't really consider with a $50M as a big production.

For animation? What does an average disney movie cost?

 

[partyphone]

I think some people associate too much with anime which means it becomes part of their identity. Its not just that you enjoy anime, it is part of what defines you. Then, any negative comments about it or its public perception is a direct attack on you.

this is a big part of it, yeah. we see the same thing in the gaming side when sexism and racism get criticised. or they screech censorship when shitty fan service gets replaced.

Are we having the "All animes are child porn" argument again?

*sigh*

nope! I mean there might be a derail post here and there but this thread is about mainstream acceptance of anime. and being shrill and overly defensive like this does nothing to demonstrate that anime fans are good ambassadors of anime.

 

[Russ T]

At least in Game of Thrones they don't turn nudity/sexuality into a pointless comedy scene - they don't objectify the women in it.

The rest of your post is whatever opinions and not having a solid knowledge-base on which to pull as far as anime goes.

But this is blatantly false... They objectify the fuck out of women on that show...

 

[MHWilliams]

In this instance, seems more like if you create something that successfully appeals to people's childhood nostalgia, it pays off. I'm pretty sure that I, as one with no nostalgia and little exposure to Dragonball, would not find this movie easy to understand.

It had to start somewhere, right? Why was the original show a hit?

I don't have an issue with Dragon Ball Z and I don't see that as a problem, but I do take issue with the claim that anime that people can easily relate to and understand beget success. There are fantastic anime like this that have not found it. Now you're distilling the point to "action," which, yes, that's the appeal to the common denominator which needs it to keep their attention.

I heavily doubt fans who get into DBZ will then seek out the more thoughtful shows like a Ping Pong, Space Brothers, or Death Parade.

Because the gulf between DBZ and those shows is amazingly wide? I'd probably ease someone into other popular shonen shows, take a turn through Ushio and Tora or Full Metal Alchemist to test their taste for something slightly darker, and then work out from there. You can get from DBZ to Death Parade, it's just going to take time and you easing a person into it.

Anime is a medium, not genre. You seem like you want to go from A to Z, while ignoring all the other letters.

For animation? What does an average disney movie cost?

Inside Out: $175 Million
Big Hero 6: $165 million
Frozen: $150 million

The Princess and the Frog was Disney's last hand-drawn film. It cost $105 million in 2009.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

For animation? What does an average disney movie cost?

$50M was the cost for crap like 2013's 'Planes'. Cars was $120M. Big name things like Toy Story 3 are $200 million.

 

[Mass_Pincup]

For animation? What does an average disney movie cost?

At least twice as much.

Frozen was $150M, Inside Out was $175M, Home from Dreamworks was $135M.

 

[sneakydomo]

this is a big part of it, yeah. we see the same thing in the gaming side when sexism and racism get criticised. or they screech censorship when shitty fan service gets replaced.



nope! I mean there might be a derail post here and there but this thread is about mainstream acceptance of anime. and being shrill and overly defensive like this does nothing to demonstrate that anime fans are good ambassadors of anime.

Funny how some people don't just casually accept being called pedophiles by strangers who probably couldn't name a currently airing anime without looking it up.

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

I mean, I'm sorry you have an issue with Dragon Ball Z, but hey... people actually watched it in domestic movie theatres. You see that as a problem. I see that as an opportunity. Which do you think will grow the fandom?

I don't have a problem with people watching Dragon Ball Z movies, but I don't see that increasing the fandom when the motivation for most moviegoers is likely "Hey, I recognize that thing I liked watching on TV as a child." I don't see that causing them to go watch When Marnie Was There, or even an action film such as Sword of the Stranger.

 

[Russ T]

nope! I mean there might be a derail post here and there but this thread is about mainstream acceptance of anime. and being shrill and overly defensive like this does nothing to demonstrate that anime fans are good ambassadors of anime.

I'm sure you're not unfamiliar with something you love being the butt of the joke in every single group you're a part of, to the point where, when you might have just laughed it off to start, you eventually just get tired and frustrated as you have to explain things over and over and over and over and over and over and over.

 

[PdotMichael]

Funny how some people don't just casually accept being called pedophiles by strangers who probably couldn't name a currently airing anime without looking it up.

Are you sure they don't know any currently airing anime? They are using stastics like 80-90%, only people who are experts in that specific topic using stasitcs.

 

[MHWilliams]

I don't have a problem with people watching Dragon Ball Z movies, but I don't see that increasing the fandom when the motivation for most moviegoers is likely "Hey, I recognize that thing I liked watching on TV as a child." I don't see that causing them to go watch When Marnie Was There, or even an action film such as Sword of the Stranger.

Sword I'd sell to Naruto or Kenshin fans. Or those who fondly remember Ninja Scroll.

 

[RM8]

I have seen several anime fans complaining that the medium is focusing too much on fanservice. If even we, people who are not into anime, can see this as well, then it's absolutely a problem. Maybe there's plenty of good stuff out there, but like with good iOS games, it actually takes effort to find them, and in the end I don't care about anime (or series, or pretty much any narrative TV show). I save time and I keep myself far, far from creepy cringe worthy crap.

It's a shame because I like stuff like Ghibli, but that seems to exist in a completely different universe. And I like some anime aesthetics in games (like old Fire Emblem art).

 

[FluxWaveZ]

Because the gulf between DBZ and those shows is amazingly wide? I'd probably ease someone into other popular shonen shows, take a turn through Ushio and Tora or Full Metal Alchemist to test their taste for something slightly darker, and then work out from there. You can get from DBZ to Death Parade, it's just going to take time and you easing a person into it.

Anime is a medium, not genre. You seem like you want to go from A to Z, while ignoring all the other letters.

Well, did the casual Wii audience proceed to more traditional, "core" video games or did they remain at step 1? Because this seems to be the similar argument, and I do not agree that the vast majority of people will ever go from A to Z. Instead, they'll stay stuck at A, and want more of A. I don't think progression from one to the next works like that at all; it's all based around one's fundamental tastes.

It might expose them to shows they haven't seen before, I'll give it that, but it won't make them like it more than they would have without watching DBZ.

 

[patapuf]

Inside Out: $175 Million
Big Hero 6: $165 million
Frozen: $150 million

The Princess and the Frog was Disney's last hand-drawn film. It cost $105 million in 2009.

Ok, i severly underestimated those budgets.

 

[Negator]

Did you even click on any of those links?

I read all of them, and pretty much all of them are huge joke threads and/or have pretty much no information or way way less information than the anime thread did. How all these joke OPs get a free pass is beyond me.

 

[partyphone]

I'm sure you're not unfamiliar with something you love being the butt of the joke in every single group you're a part of, to the point where, when you might have just laughed it off to start, you eventually just get tired and frustrated as you have to explain things over and over and over and over and over and over and over.

I actually don't know what you're even talking about, sorry.

 

[Kinyou]

Their reason for feeling like outcasts is imagined. As stated, it's alone not for liking Anime. Also, I publicly enjoy Kill la Kill, and have never felt like an outcast. But I'm also capable of recognizing the problematic parts of media I consume and not feel the need to defend it. When I say I like the show, and the response is "it's kind of creepy" my response is "haha, yeah, it kind of is" rather than "nuh-uh, it's just cultural differences blahblahblah". It's just like how I love hip-hop but will call out artists who I take issue with in their portrayal of women.

And what's your response when someone basically says "This is for pedophiles" ?

 

[sneakydomo]

Are you sure they don't know any currently airing anime? They are using stastics like 80-90%, only people who are experts in that specific topic using stasitcs.

I feel rather confident, it's a pretty weak season and all. Ok some might have heard of One Punch Man.

 

[Mass_Pincup]

Are you sure they don't know any currently airing anime? They are using stastics like 80-90%, only people who are experts in that specific topic using stasitcs.

That's the thing that irks me, it's seems like all they did is going to google looking for panty shoots fan service and all that stuff just to say that it's what anime is and what the anime community wants the most. No research whatsoever.

No Japanese film is going to pour as much money into its production as major Hollywood films will. The money simply isn't there. So by that standard no anime film is a big production, not even Spirited Away.

Yeah of course, some Ghibli movies have had a big success but they're not big production in the grand scheme of things.

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

I don't really consider a movie with a $50M budget as a big production.

No Japanese film is going to pour as much money into its production as major Hollywood films will. The money simply isn't there. So by that standard no anime film is a big production, not even Spirited Away.

 

[partyphone]

Funny how some people don't just casually accept being called pedophiles by strangers who probably couldn't name a currently airing anime without looking it up.

herein lies the problem! the anime community gets accused of liking creepy bullshit and people with loli avatars get all offended about it. do you not understand how that comes across?

and don't get me wrong, if you like creepy shit you go ahead and like creepy shit. but it is not going to get any mainstream acceptance.

 

[Cornbread78]

And what's your response when someone basically says "This is for pedophiles" ?

Get ejimicated?

 

[muteki]

Anime can't even break into the mainstream on Neogaf. If that can't happen, it doesn't stand a chance in the real world.

 

[partyphone]

you people are amazing and I love you

 

[MHWilliams]

Well, did the casual Wii audience proceed to more traditional, "core" video games or did they remain at step 1? Because this seems to be the similar argument, and I do not agree that the vast majority of people will ever go from A to Z. Instead, they'll stay stuck at A, and want more of A.

My argument isn't that it'll just happen, which seemed to be people's hope for the Wii.

It's something I actively do. I'm a games journalist. I'm a moderator at Millarworld. I've worked for the Guest department of Otakon for 12 years. I have things I enjoy and I do my best to bring others into those mediums. It's a process. That's how I show my love and enjoyment of the mediums. Give people a line of solid content from A to Z. Help them out.

It has worked. It continues to work.

It might expose them to shows they haven't seen before, I'll give it that, but it won't make them like it more than they would have without watching DBZ.

I disagree. People like anchoring new experiences in what they know. It's why we have "From the X that brought you Y" before promotional materials. I think Daredevil on Netflix would've had a completely different reception if it wasn't the next step in Marvel's ongoing thing.

 

[Klossen]

herein lies the problem! the anime community gets accused of liking creepy bullshit and people with loli avatars get all offended about it. do you not understand how that comes across?

and don't get me wrong, if you like creepy shit you go ahead and like creepy shit. but it is not going to get any mainstream acceptance.

Why do people still respond to this guy?

 

[SliceSabre]

herein lies the problem! the anime community gets accused of liking creepy bullshit and people with loli avatars get all offended about it. do you not understand how that comes across?

and don't get me wrong, if you like creepy shit you go ahead and like creepy shit. but it is not going to get any mainstream acceptance.

It is almost amusing how you continue to insult people and make assumptions. I've come to believe you are a troll poster by your behavior in these threads and the way you derail discussions.

 

[Russ T]

I actually don't know what you're even talking about, sorry.

In nearly every online community* I've been a part of, anime has been the butt of the joke. Just this morning, I logged into a chatroom and said hello and was greeted by someone making fun of anime, at my expense!, because I'm vocal about my love for anime.

People make these jokes because of the shitty things that are part of the medium we call anime. Fanservice, creepy loli shit, etc. I'm also vocal about hating that element of the medium, but it doesn't matter. It's still a joke that I like it in the first place because it's creepy and gross. It's all bad because High School of the Dead exists. Doesn't matter that a lot of my favorite stuff has none or very little of it. It's still a joke.

In most cases, I just try to laugh it off, because, you know, people aren't trying to be malicious when they say these things. But the constant onslaught is bound to wear anybody down, right? And then a thread like this occurs where people are being completely serious, not joking, and utterly dismissive of the entire medium. Understandable, but still frustrating.

So while I understand where you're coming from when you accuse people of being "shrill and overly defensive", and how that's a repulsive behavior, I really do understand... Maybe you should try to understand where anime fans are coming from when they get "shrill and overly defensive" in the first place?

*God I don't even want to think about trying to talk about anime in most of my real-life social groups.

 

[AnathemicOne]

herein lies the problem! the anime community gets accused of liking creepy bullshit and people with loli avatars get all offended about it. do you not understand how that comes across?

and don't get me wrong, if you like creepy shit you go ahead and like creepy shit. but it is not going to get any mainstream acceptance.

Bruh I have the creepiest loli avatar. So moe. Need a bigger brush for much broader stroke?

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

Just for your info, this is typically the sort of thing I was referring to:

I see this in almost every anime I watch, even ones with very little romance or interest in sexual topics/themes. There are these moments that just make you go 'wait a minute, what?' which aren't questioned at all.

When Seven Deadly Sins started airing, the general reaction to it in AnimeGAF was "I don't want to watch this stuff." I don't think it's typical of shounen action manga adaptations.

Sword I'd sell to Naruto or Kenshin fans. Or those who fondly remember Ninja Scroll.

Ninja Scroll? Sword of the Stranger isn't that bad.

 

[sneakydomo]

herein lies the problem! the anime community gets accused of liking creepy bullshit and people with loli avatars get all offended about it. do you not understand how that comes across?

and don't get me wrong, if you like creepy shit you go ahead and like creepy shit. but it is not going to get any mainstream acceptance.

Is that your argument? How much anime have you watched? Why should I take anything you say seriously?

 

[NoblesseOblige]

And what's your response when someone basically says "This is for pedophiles" ?

I don't know since nobody has said it to me about the Anime I watched. I can tell you what it wouldn't be though. It wouldn't be to try and defend the medium and say it's just due to cultural differences or Japan having lower age of consent laws.

 

[MHWilliams]

Ninja Scroll? Sword of the Stranger isn't that bad.

Nah, but Ninja Scroll is a huge gateway for many. It's weird how many people watch Ninja Scroll as kids. Since it wasn't for kids.

 

[pants]

Funny how some people don't just casually accept being called pedophiles by strangers who probably couldn't name a currently airing anime without looking it up.

I stopped bothering a long time ago, these people simply arent interested in knowing anime encompasses much, much more than that not so popular weird ecchi shit they once side eyed while googling other random shit.

 

[sneakydomo]

I stopped bothering a long time ago, these people simply arent interested in knowing anime encompasses much, much more than that not so popular weird ecchi shit they once side eyed while googling other random shit.

You're probably right.

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

Nah, but Ninja Scroll is a huge gateway for many. It's weird how many people watch Ninja Scroll as kids. Since it wasn't for kids.

It's funny that Ninja Scroll was brought up, because to the extent anime has a perception problem here in the US, I think it goes back more to the days when ultra-violent, ultra-sexual movies and OVAs such as it were brought over into video stores in the 1990s and anime got characterized for many people as that tenticle rape thing. The currently airing "moe" stuff which seems to get the bulk of attention in this thread has not been as influential in shaping general cultural views of anime.

 

[DiGiKerot]

It's a shame because I like stuff like Ghibli, but that seems to exist in a completely different universe. And I like some anime aesthetics in games (like old Fire Emblem art).

As far as theatrical anime goes, there's generally at least two or three movies a year which could, in a really reductive sense, be considered Ghibli-esque, in some sense of the term - Production IG in particular have been pretty reliable about this with things like Giovannis Island or Miss Hokusai or Letter to Momo the last few of years, and that's not even mentioning the Hosoda stuff coming out of Chizu. It's only going to become more common now that Ghibli have left this huge gulf in the market.

Even when these things do get released outside Japan, though, no-one really sees them because they get noooooooo coverage outside of the specialist anime press.

 

[Turin Turambar]

I don't really consider a movie with a $50M budget as a big production.

Except in Hollywood, that's a very big production in every country.

 

[MHWilliams]

It's funny that Ninja Scroll was brought up, because to the extent anime has a perception problem here in the US, I think it goes back more to the days when ultra-violent, ultra-sexual movies and OVAs such as it were brought over into video stores in the 1990s and anime got characterized for many people as that tenticle rape thing. The currently airing "moe" stuff which seems to get the bulk of attention in this thread has not been as influential in shaping general cultural views of anime.

Right? Remember the days when it was Urusei Yatsura, Dominion Tank Police, Bubblegum Crisis, Ninja Scroll, Urotsukidoji, and that's it?

Halcyon days. Kids these days don't know how good they have it.

 

[……forgetit]

Is that your argument? How much anime have you watched? Why should I take anything you say seriously?

"Why don't more people like anime?"

"Well I don't watch it for this and this and this"

"That's bullshit, why should I take what you say seriously, when you haven't watched anime?"

 

[Binabik15]

This thread reminds me, where is that gif from where a dark haired guy just punches the crap out of his opponent?



Personally I know many people who dabble(d) a bit in anime and manga, just like many other forms of entertainment, but also some of the examples of going off the the deep end. The types even the smelly wargamer nerds make fun of (yeah, pecking order is a real thing it seems).

Personally, I only read DB as a kid, but the Robin Hood and freaking Heidi cartoons I couldn't watch as a kid are anime as well, which is always surprising people when I tell them. I should make my nephews watch Robin Hood, I think the few epsiodes I could see were actually good entertainment for kids and not straight up thrash like most of the new 3d series for kids, yes? I mean to watch Akira and GitS, but never come to it. Maybe I should start with a few shows to get a feeling for it? Crunchyroll is a legit streaming site is what theis thread has taught me, but is there a site to download episodes? I prefer watching series during train rides and learn while at home, not the other way round. Gundam Iron whatever Orphans for a start? OR just something where blood sprays and people get shot or cut in half...without fanservice or annoying little girls with whiney voices, even if nobody is trying to fondle them.

 

[John Kowalski]

I like it better this way.

 

[Nairume]

Is that your argument? How much anime have you watched? Why should I take anything you say seriously?

So are we now at the point to where litmus tests are required to do any sort of commentary on the state of anime and its fandom?

 

[XiaNaphryz]

Right? Remember the days when it was Urusei Yatsura, Dominion Tank Police, Bubblegum Crisis, Ninja Scroll, Urotsukidoji, and that's it?

Halcyon days. Kids these days don't know how good they have it.

You forgot Macross, Tenchi Muyo, Lodoss War, and Ranma.

If you couldn't borrow or rent legit tapes or laserdiscs, you had to rely on finding VHS fansubs...sometimes renting them from little specialty shops.