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[John Kowalski]

BeBop

good heavens

hand in your nerd card sir

 

[Principate]

The other thing that Marvel has going for them is their loosely continuous Marvel universe. Fans of Thor, Ironman can instantly attach w/ the Avengers, and loose threads from other places tie into others. Every installation adds to the next one.

What are you going to do w/ manga? There are very rich worlds out there, but they are, in general, all-contained. It makes even the most successful or potent stories less valuable, because there's no prior notoriety it can associate itself with.

TBF most of the major manga properties have a pretty massive, so you could probably do similar things within the same universe, but they're obviously not as fleshed out generally with their own origin stories etc

 

[Slayven]

These people are going to be pissed if anime ever supposedly goes 'mainstream' anyway. What happened to Marvel? It's a movie franchise now, where those guys you sorta knew from the comics, the saturday morning cartoons and such are being used as a backbone for $100m+ productions. That's what we're going to see if things go 'mainstream,' and what part of the art (to which many people have a distaste for), the intended geographic (Japan, which means content will have to be modified to fit western tastes), the story do you expect will remain?

Some of these fans have lofty expectations for a medium that in general struggles to make a profit, is still looking for a proper way of monetizing their ventures, and is frequently villified in the country where it's primarily produced.

The comics are not being used to prop up the movies.

 

[Sianos]

In anime, every time I've seen sexist/objectifying shit happen, it is always out of context. It's always just dropped in there. It's always a harmless, normal scene, then boom panty shot or boom cleavage shot, with embarrassed protagonist, yadda. Seen it in infinitely more anime than I've seen in Western TV.

This is a succinct expression of what I feel is wrong with a lot of sexual content in media in general, not just anime. There is so much expression of sexuality in these unrelated scenes for no reason other than to randomly titilate, yet an absolute failure when it comes to making genuine points about sexuality.

Anime can use sexual content to prove a valid point - for instance, in EVA there is one of those typical scenes where a male character falls on top of an undressed female character. But her lack of reaction from the female character in contrast with the extreme discomfort of the male character and the context, framing, and music of the scene make it very clear that this archetype of the submissive waifu that is so overplayed is actually very unhealthy. There are other examples of Anno subverting expectations of sexual scenes to demonstrate problems with the portrayal of women and the negative effects that unchecked societal archetypes have. Characters are designed to piss of a certain set of misogynists in order to elicit introspection, from the swapping of gender archetypes for Shinji/Asuka and Misato/Kaji to scenes clearly displaying and rejecting misogynist philosophy to the ending episodes clearly spelling out the psychological points to those who didn't grasp them. And yet, there are still random tit and ass shots that don't serve a purpose and kind of undermine the message whilst not really being justifiable under the Trojan Horse philosophy.

 

[NaDannMaGoGo]

I watched anime in the 90's and in the early 2000s when it blew up. There was plenty of adolescent trash released back then, but we tended to get only the better productions and the ones that appealed to adult sensibilities, for better or worse. I think as anime got bigger and the floodgates got opened, we got more of the everyday shlock that is mass produced for Japanese otaku, just piles and piles of garbage harem and moe shows, and we got fans who were more in tune with Japanese culture (relatively speaking) who set out to like anything that was popular in Japan solely because it was popular in Japan. Those people cheered on all the garbage of the last 10-15 years and probably prevented the medium from breaking through when we had a critical mass of artistically respectable productions that were gaining mainstream awareness back then.

Like others, I lost interest in it because of the fetishization of little girls (even when it is not sexual, there is a fixation on them as central characters that seems problematic to me, psychologically, for an adult to be into so much), the tropey-ness of the medium that makes TV sitcoms look incredibly varied by comparison, and just the overall lack of agency and respect for women. And unlike most any other medium there is just no real reflection on actual human life and relationships.

A big problem with these discussions is that, IMO, anime fans can't typically give accurate advice to non-otaku. Numerous times on GAF Ive been directed to an example of a strong female role that is laughable in reality, full of upskirts and shit, but she is a "bad girl" and assertive (or ADORABLY CLUMSY) and by otaku standards that is feminist. Women are barely more than squeaking objects in most anime, even "mature" ones that engage in no overt sexualization. It's like they are pulled out of some Victorian era drama, holding a parasol and gasping as an overly earnest anime hero declares their love. Is this reflective of Japanese society? I don't know. I know that otaku in Japan are notorious for not interacting well with normies, so maybe I should assume the general culture reflected in anime is just fucking wrong and toxic. It just seems like a MRA had some influence in how female characters should act in almost every anime I've seen.

I've had too many anime fans tell me a shitty show is good, because they love anime so much that they couldn't see that it was just another serving of their favorite tropes with slightly different window dressing. This a problem with enthusiasts of anything, where they overblow small details and differences in their own mind when in reality it is all much more similar than they can see.

The humor is usually god awful. It's sort of like memes, fans are laughing because it is a running gag in the medium, but isn't really funny. Is my sense of humor just simply different, not better than, someone who finds it hilarious to bodily fall over or get a nosebleed when a girl says something unintentionally sexual? No, I think I just have a better sense of humor.

Now someone with a little girl avatar can go ahead and tell me I pulled all of this out of my ass, and demand a list of the last 10 anime I watched.

---

Then don't watch anime.

Who cares about your anecdotes and how is that even relevant to the topic of the thread?

So you watched a couple of animes and that makes you an expert on the whole media? Why don't you just say that from what you've seen that's what happens? Why do you feel the need to generalize the whole genre? There's plenty of strong female characters in anime and you sense of humor is no better then anyone else's. I'm getting tired of this superiority complex you guys are showing in this thread.

Why the fuck does a quite well thought out and seriously unoffensive post warrant such stupid replies?

It's that shit that's not doing the anime community any favors.

As far as I'm concerned LaserBuddha is spot on with his sentiment in regards to many anime online communities, albeit not so much AnimeGAF, which he/she never claimed. You just have to take a look at the likes of the /r/anime subreddit which is shock full of people who'd upvote loli content all day every day and wouldn't bat an eye recommending it to people. Fuck, the moderators restricted the subreddit so that their threads will no longer reach the frontpage because of how much embarrassing shit got there. That's not to say everyone's bad over there and I myself have had a few really good discussions and got some great recommendations, but if I were to generalize that subreddit, I'd tell everyone new to anime to stay the fuck out of there. For all the Evangelion and Hyouka recommendations you'll find 10 School Days or Clannad suggestions.

 

[gamechanger87]

This is a succinct expression of what I feel is wrong with a lot of sexual content in media in general, not just anime. There is so much expression of sexuality in these unrelated scenes for no reason other than to randomly titilate, yet an absolute failure when it comes to making genuine points about sexuality.

Anime can use sexual content to prove a valid point - for instance, in EVA there is one of those typical scenes where a male character falls on top of an undressed female character. But her lack of reaction from the female character in contrast with the extreme discomfort of the male character and the context, framing, and music of the scene make it very clear that this archetype of the submissive waifu that is so overplayed is actually very unhealthy. There are other examples of Anno subverting expectations of sexual scenes to demonstrate problems with the portrayal of women and the negative effects that unchecked societal archetypes have. Characters are designed to piss of a certain set of misogynists in order to elicit introspection, from the swapping of gender archetypes for Shinji/Asuka and Misato/Kaji to scenes clearly displaying and rejecting misogynist philosophy to the ending episodes clearly spelling out the psychological points to those who didn't grasp them. And yet, there are still random tit and ass shots that don't serve a purpose and kind of undermine the message whilst not really being justifiable under the Trojan Horse philosophy.

Has this Trojan Horse philosophy ever been stated as a plan or is this something that is created by the consumers and creators after the fact to cover up the actual goal which seems fairly obvious?

I'm seriously asking because it feels a little like something that is created after the fact rather than the artists stated goal from the start.

 

[firehawk12]

Has this Trojan Horse philosophy ever been stated as a plan or is this something that is created by the consumers and creators after the fact to cover up the actual goal which seems fairly obvious?

I'm seriously asking because it feels a little like something that is created after the fact rather than the artists stated goal from the start.

With Eva in particularly, they invented a new character in the reboot movies just for the sake of having more merch to sell. I mean, at some point people there is a business that these people are ultimately forced to worry about.

 

[Megalosaro]

I think UC Gundam could make an excellent live action movie series if done right... but it wouldn't be. Hollywood loves fetishizing war, which would go against the entire point of UC.

 

[Sianos]

Has this Trojan Horse philosophy ever been stated as a plan or is this something that is created by the consumers and creators after the fact to cover up the actual goal which seems fairly obvious?

I'm seriously asking because it feels a little like something that is created after the fact rather than the artists stated goal from the start.

Anno's mentor and close friend is also the man behind the [EDIT] "You see, whether you can draw like this or not, being able to think up this kind of design, it depends on whether or not you can say to yourself, ‘Oh, yeah, girls like this exist in real life. If you don’t spend time watching real people, you can’t do this, because you’ve never seen it. Some people spend their lives interested only in themselves. Almost all Japanese animation is produced with hardly any basis taken from observing real people, you know. It’s produced by humans who can’t stand looking at other humans. And that’s why the industry is full of otaku!" [DOUBLE EDIT] lmao it wasn't even Anno in the gif, I clearly shouldn't cite from memory gif and Anno predicts the death of anime is coming soon.

Here's a good analysis on the matter.

 

[captainpat]

So is their any benefit to anime and manga become in the west mainstream other than some more properties get movie adaption? Cause that's how it is with comics.

 

[firehawk12]

So is their any benefit to anime and manga become in the west mainstream other than some more properties get movie adaption? Cause that's how it is with comics.

I mean the whole point of the article is that fans feel marginalized for their hobby, so I suppose that would stop.

 

[Negator]

If the price for more mainstream anime is more jank like Attack on Titan and Sword Art Online, maybe I'm just fine with how anime currently is.

 

[NaDannMaGoGo]

With Eva in particularly, they invented a new character in the reboot movies just for the sake of having more merch to sell. I mean, at some point people there is a business that these people are ultimately forced to worry about.

Yeh but that has little to do with the original Evangelion where I'd fully agree with NSQuote. That particular scene surely could hardly be considered titillation, disregarding what the director himself says or thinks about that.

And if you know Anno I would be just the more apparent.

The rebuild series is another matter, though, and I wonder if 4.0 can redeem any, if not all of the flaws. The latter should be downright impossible but oh well, either way I#m curious to see what he cooks up.

So is their any benefit to anime and manga become in the west mainstream other than some more properties get movie adaption? Cause that's how it is with comics.

Theoretically you'd get additional investors and, if there's a sort of boom, fewer studios would need to appeal to the Otaku market? With much higher budgets the working conditions that are, for the most part, deplorable might improve, too!

But then it's a lot of Otaku trash that also appeals to the west so eh, I wouldn't get my hopes up. Higher budgets being trickled down to the average animators work condition improvements may be rather hopeful, too.

 

[Puruzi]

Anno is also the man behind the "anime was a mistake; it's nothing but trash" gif and predicts the death of anime is coming soon.

Here's a good analysis on the matter.

It's not what he said in the gif

 

[firehawk12]

Yeh but that has little to do with the original Evangelion where I'd fully agree with NSQuote. That particular scene surely could hardly be considered titillation, disregarding what the director himself says or thinks about that.

And if you know Anno I would be just the more apparent.

The rebuild series is another matter, though, and I wonder if 4.0 can redeem any, if not all of the flaws. The latter should be downright impossible but oh well, either way I#m curious to see what he cooks up.

I feel like the Rebuild movies are pure cynicism. Even the homoeroticism of 3.33 is played up just to appeal to the people who are into the Shinji x Kaworu relationship.

Spoiler

I will say, gay piano playing is still pretty awesome though.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

If the price for more mainstream anime is more jank like Attack on Titan and Sword Art Online, maybe I'm just fine with how anime currently is.

I'm confused as to how anyone could be fine with the current state of affairs. Sure, you get some good shows on occasion that don't fall into "let's make X sexy" and that's good, but why would you want an environment where many shows are still made that do this. Look at Gundam Build Fighters, pretty tame, eh? Yeah, it was. Then Tri comes out and oh boy the female lead!

Give me more Attack on Titan and less Kill la Kill. World and medium is better off that way.

 

[KirbYuuYuu]

Gundam Build Fighters TRY was a mistake.

This is why people shouldn't clamor for a Sunrise sequel

 

[Sianos]

It's not what he said in the gif

I didn't fact check the gif when I should have because it's so common, but it turns out the initial full text before the fake captioning was even more damning.

"You see, whether you can draw like this or not, being able to think up this kind of design, it depends on whether or not you can say to yourself, ‘Oh, yeah, girls like this exist in real life. If you don’t spend time watching real people, you can’t do this, because you’ve never seen it. Some people spend their lives interested only in themselves. Almost all Japanese animation is produced with hardly any basis taken from observing real people, you know. It’s produced by humans who can’t stand looking at other humans. And that’s why the industry is full of otaku!"

[EDIT] lmao oops, the quote wasn't even by Anno, I didn't even bother to check that. I just assumed it was since it's fit in with his philosophy and all, but that is SLOPPY WORK from me

 

[Negator]

Give me more Attack on Titan and less Kill la Kill. World and medium is better off that way.

I'm totally fine with Kill la Kill, at least it was jank that was fun to watch. With Attack on Titan I hated everyone and didn't even care if anyone died.

 

[radios shipping overview]

It's the money.

Most geek culture is owned and run by Western megacorps, while anime IPs are held by Japanese companies that don't always see eye-to-eye with Western licensees. The rise of huge geek culture events as all-media gatherings has coincided with geek culture starting to make tons of money for the big media conglomerates, and with Western-made games themselves becoming extremely successful on a worldwide scale. Anime is not effectively monetized in the US. If you have control and ownership over something you're selling, you're going to put it front and center ahead of somebody else's property.

 

[NaDannMaGoGo]

I feel like the Rebuild movies are pure cynicism. Even the homoeroticism of 3.33 is played up just to appeal to the people who are into the Shinji x Kaworu relationship.

Spoiler

I will say, gay piano playing is still pretty awesome though.

I've linked this article before, it's gives an interesting perspective on 3.0 especially.

http://wrongeverytime.com/2014/02/10/once-more-with-fury-rebuilding-evangelion/

That doesn't make any of the prebuild movies any better necessarily but still, I enjoyed looking at it from another point of view.

 

[Mauricio_Magus]

Gundam Build Fighters TRY was a mistake.

This is why people shouldn't clamor for a Sunrise sequel

after how AMAZING GBF was... Try was the fucking worst.

 

[Klossen]

Anno is also the man behind the [EDIT] "You see, whether you can draw like this or not, being able to think up this kind of design, it depends on whether or not you can say to yourself, ‘Oh, yeah, girls like this exist in real life. If you don’t spend time watching real people, you can’t do this, because you’ve never seen it. Some people spend their lives interested only in themselves. Almost all Japanese animation is produced with hardly any basis taken from observing real people, you know. It’s produced by humans who can’t stand looking at other humans. And that’s why the industry is full of otaku!" gif and predicts the death of anime is coming soon.

Here's a good analysis on the matter.

Do you even know the difference between Anno and Miyazaki? You're not only mis-quoting but also taking said quotes out of context. If you think Anno hates anime, then you're sorely mistaken. If you think Miyazaki hates anime, then you are sorely mistaken.

Oh, but what's the point? This thread is already a graveyard and it's not the ones uninformed who get sent to ban land.

 

[Sianos]

I feel like the Rebuild movies are pure cynicism. Even the homoeroticism of 3.33 is played up just to appeal to the people who are into the Shinji x Kaworu relationship.

Spoiler

I will say, gay piano playing is still pretty awesome though.

I read an interesting analysis that the three movies are supposed to be giving each "group" of fans what they want, then subverting it. 1.11 is just an HD remake for those who didn't grasp the deeper points, 2.22 caters to the lowest common denominator with fan service both sexually and in action, and 3.33 tears it all apart demonstrating what is wrong with all that, turns up the despair, and lays on the homoeroticism thick while demonstrating that no one has really learned their lesson.

I hope 3.0+1.0 is just as dark as the original End of Evangelion.

 

[The Silver]

If the price for more mainstream anime is more jank like Attack on Titan and Sword Art Online, maybe I'm just fine with how anime currently is.

SAO is completely in line with your typical shitty otaku "wish fulfillment escape from reality" anime, it got popular cause its really damn good at it.

 

[Paltheos]

The rebuild series is another matter, though, and I wonder if 4.0 can redeem any, if not all of the flaws. The latter should be downright impossible but oh well, either way I#m curious to see what he cooks up.

While I was watching 3.0, I kept believing that 4.0 can do it. If you look at 3.0 as setup, it's plausible. I'm really banking on Shinji-Asuka character work and the resolution of the plot thread from the end of 2.0 that 3.0 touched on without really digging into. Man, 3.0 did not feel very productive though =/ I'm still hopeful although my brain's telling me I shouldn't be.

 

[Sulik2]

Its because of fanservice. You'll never find mainstream acceptance while anime basically exclusively caters to that market.

 

[Kinyou]

SAO is completely in line with your typical shitty otaku "wish fulfillment escape from reality" anime, it got popular cause its really damn good at it.

But isn't it also pretty mainstream? At least I got the impression that it's quite huge in Japan.

 

[firehawk12]

I've linked this article before, it's gives an interesting perspective on 3.0 especially.

http://wrongeverytime.com/2014/02/10...ng-evangelion/

That doesn't make any of the prebuild movies any better necessarily but still, I enjoyed looking at it from another point of view.

I will say that this is a very highly optimistic reading of the Rebuild project. Particularly of 2.0. I don't necessarily disagree with their reading of 3.0/3.33, particularly since I'm mostly positive (or at least not negative) on the third movie. But it's hard not to see the yaoi subtext and all the new "situations" that Anno inspires with the interactions between the two male characters of the show. I mean the fact that they are trying to reach for a "lance" together is enough to make a psychoanalyst blush.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

I'm totally fine with Kill la Kill, at least it was jank that was fun to watch. With Attack on Titan I hated everyone and didn't even care if anyone died.

It's very hard for me to accept people were OK with the visuals in Kill la Kill. Is it because people are so used to seeing it that it's no big deal? You'd probably get arrested at the border of Canada for carrying it. :/

 

[Sianos]

Do you even know the difference between Anno and Miyazaki? You're not only mis-quoting but also taking said quotes out of context. If you think Anno hates anime, then you're sorely mistaken. If you think Miyazaki hates anime, then you are sorely mistaken.

Oh, but what's the point? This thread is already a graveyard and it's not the ones uninformed who get sent to ban land.

He doesn't hate anime, but he clearly disapproves of certain archetypes that have permeated the medium.

I do notice that you fixate on my (admittedly unacceptably poor) citation errors as oppose to actually addressing my points.

 

[Tohsaka]

It's very hard for me to accept people were OK with the visuals in Kill la Kill. Is it because people are so used to seeing it that it's no big deal? You'd probably get arrested at the border of Canada for carrying it. :/

It aired on Adult Swim, do you really think people weren't okay with it? The two main females are 17/18, it's not like they were 12 or anything.

 

[firehawk12]

But isn't it also pretty mainstream? At least I got the impression that it's quite huge in Japan.

So there are basically four tiers of anime.

1. Ghibli (which probably doesn't exist anymore, particularly since Marnie bombed)
2. One Piece and other shounen. Precure. Sazae-san. Basically stuff for kids or for families.
3. Sword Art Online, Attack on Titan, Yamato 2199, K-On. The stuff that's popular for nerds, but no one cares outside of the fanbase.
4. Everything else.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

It aired on Adult Swim, do you really think people weren't okay with it? The two main females are 17/18, it's not like they were 12 or anything.

Adult Swim airs a lot of stuff. This has been my point the entire time: why defend this stuff? What purpose does it serve?

17/18 then Mako then band girl then there's boys. Gamagoori is in his 20s.

 

[The Silver]

But isn't it also pretty mainstream? At least I got the impression that it's quite huge in Japan.

it's popular among anime fans, it certainly isn't "mainstream". Mainstream are juggernauts like One Piece and Dragonball.

 

[RMI]

It's very hard for me to accept people were OK with the visuals in Kill la Kill. Is it because people are so used to seeing it that it's no big deal? You'd probably get arrested at the border of Canada for carrying it. :/

I didn't mind it. My wife said it was "perverted" but that didn't stop her from watching most of the series when she was home sick one day. I thought it was a fun show. Definitely more enjoyable throughout than Gurren Lagan (which IMO was a great series but had a very slow start).

 

[Negator]

The only part that really freaked me out in KLK was the part with Satsuki and her mom. That was pretty ridiculous.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

I didn't mind it. My wife said it was "perverted" but that didn't stop her from watching most of the series when she was home sick one day. I thought it was a fun show. Definitely more enjoyable throughout than Gurren Lagan (which IMO was a great series but had a very slow start).

Imagine if Kill la Kill was live action... would you still watch it?

 

[firehawk12]

The only part that really freaked me out in KLK was the part with Satsuki and her mom. That was pretty ridiculous.

Anime uses lesbians now the same way that American TV used them in the 90s.

But at least it's equal opportunity given that every season has at least one yaoi show.

 

[Cornbread78]

Just because somebody asked earlier in the thread about something tastful in regards to this type of anime, I cannot search for it right now, but I heard this one fits the bill:


Wandering Son

Synopsis:
Effeminate fifth grader Shuuichi Nitori is considered by most to be one of the prettiest girls in school, but much to her dismay, she is actually biologically male. Fortunately, Shuuichi has a childhood friend who has similar feelings of discomfort related to gender identity: the lanky tomboy Yoshino Takatsuki, who, though biologically female, does not identify as a girl. These two friends share a similar secret and find solace in one another; however, their lives become even more complicated when they must tread the unfamiliar waters of a new school, attempt to make new friends, and struggle to maintain old ones. Faced with nearly insurmountable odds, they must learn to deal with the harsh realities of growing up, transexuality, relationships, and acceptance.

Lauded as a decidedly serious take on gender identity and LGBT struggles, Takako Shimura's Hourou Musuko is about Shuuichi and Yoshino's attempts to discover their true selves as they enter puberty, make friends, fall in love, and face some very real and difficult choices.

http://myanimelist.net/anime/8426/Hourou_Musuko

 

[Tohsaka]

Imagine if Kill la Kill was live action... would you still watch it?

I don't think it would really work as a live-action, not just because of the fanservice, either. The over-the-top action scenes and stuff wouldn't work nearly as well in another format..

 

[NaDannMaGoGo]

I will say that this is a very highly optimistic reading of the Rebuild project. Particularly of 2.0. I don't necessarily disagree with their reading of 3.0/3.33, particularly since I'm mostly positive (or at least not negative) on the third movie. But it's hard not to see the yaoi subtext and all the new "situations" that Anno inspires with the interactions between the two male characters of the show. I mean the fact that they are trying to reach for a "lance" together is enough to make a psychoanalyst blush.

The author of this article usually tries to look for positives and enjoys concepts much more than execution thereof, too much for my taste. Still, he often makes interesting cases and I like reading his perspectives on a bunch of shows. He's got lots on the Monogatari series as well.

If I’m being a little too harsh here, I apologize – but Evangelion 3.33 certainly doesn’t. The film is that direct – rambling and disjointed and strange, it barely qualifies as a narrative at all. And I don’t think it’s really trying to. That ranting paragraph up there? That’s what Evangelion 3.33 is.

3.33 is a lecture. 3.33 is a conversation.

This idea is really interesting. How much this hits true will be a bit clearer with 4.4.

Or well, maybe not. After all, expecting an Evangelion movie to clear things up is asking a bit much.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

I don't think it would really work as a live-action, not just because of the fanservice, either. The over-the-top action scenes and stuff wouldn't work nearly as well in another format..

Let's say shot for shot and they had the budget. Would you watch it? I don't think it would get past the proposal with the kind of images they have (and the band leader's age with her final form).

You would have to say yes to watching it. If you say no then you have to ask what the difference is.

 

[The Technomancer]

This is a succinct expression of what I feel is wrong with a lot of sexual content in media in general, not just anime. There is so much expression of sexuality in these unrelated scenes for no reason other than to randomly titilate, yet an absolute failure when it comes to making genuine points about sexuality.

Anime can use sexual content to prove a valid point - for instance, in EVA there is one of those typical scenes where a male character falls on top of an undressed female character. But her lack of reaction from the female character in contrast with the extreme discomfort of the male character and the context, framing, and music of the scene make it very clear that this archetype of the submissive waifu that is so overplayed is actually very unhealthy. There are other examples of Anno subverting expectations of sexual scenes to demonstrate problems with the portrayal of women and the negative effects that unchecked societal archetypes have. Characters are designed to piss of a certain set of misogynists in order to elicit introspection, from the swapping of gender archetypes for Shinji/Asuka and Misato/Kaji to scenes clearly displaying and rejecting misogynist philosophy to the ending episodes clearly spelling out the psychological points to those who didn't grasp them. And yet, there are still random tit and ass shots that don't serve a purpose and kind of undermine the message whilst not really being justifiable under the Trojan Horse philosophy.

Well said

 

[Sianos]

Miyazaki also expressing his discontentment with the permeation of unpleasant tropes through his form of artistic expression due to cultural attitudes is even more indicative that the problems throughout media types are present in anime as well to a significant degree, since it can't just be played off as Anno being depressed.

The aggressively neutral language in that last sentence wasn't just wankery, but my way of trying to show that my analysis isn't just based in an intrinsic hatred of anime, since I identify those same problems in other forms of media as well. Also, I really wanted to avoid coming across as saying "Miyazaki thinks anime sucks intrinsically due to the medium".

I could picture an upset Anno declaring "anime is trash" (which is why I wrongly attributed the false quote to him), but I also know that his work demonstrates that the medium has value as a platform for artistic expression.

 

[firehawk12]

This idea is really interesting. How much this hits true will be a bit clearer with 4.4.

Or well, maybe not. After all, expecting an Evangelion movie to clear things up is asking a bit much.

The best parts of Eva for me have always been about externalizing the internal. It's why I vastly prefer the TV ending to Eva to the tedious movie that features big mecha fights and
giant Rei blobs.

Kaworu's interactions with Shinji are directly in line with that, especially since Shinji's identity and history has been erased at the start of 3.33.

 

[Coffee Dog]

Let's say shot for shot and they had the budget. Would you watch it? I don't think it would get past the proposal with the kind of images they have (and the band leader's age with her final form).

You would have to say yes to watching it. If you say no then you have to ask what the difference is.

People were talking about the quality of globally popular anime and you brought up kill la kill out of nowhere. What is the purpose of reiterating the same surface level "anime is for pedophiles lol" discussion that has stunted this thread from the start?

Aside from the obvious morality masturbation, of course.

 

[Tohsaka]

Let's say shot for shot and they had the budget. Would you watch it? I don't think it would get past the proposal with the kind of images they have (and the band leader's age with her final form).

You would have to say yes to watching it. If you say no then you have to ask what the difference is.

I wouldn't watch it, because I personally don't care for live-action adaptions of anime regardless of the subject matter.

 

[KirbYuuYuu]

Let's say shot for shot and they had the budget. Would you watch it? I don't think it would get past the proposal with the kind of images they have (and the band leader's age with her final form).

You would have to say yes to watching it. If you say no then you have to ask what the difference is.

His point would ultimately still stand since it can't work.

 

[Black-Box]

KLK should not be compared to animes like High School of the Dead.