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Dragon Ball Super |OT| 28 Episodes Later

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dity said:
The one that has only had 2 power ups as a result of tragic deaths? Just 2. That's not many for a series like DBZ, y'know.
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Emotional power ups have been a constant thing. Lets not kid ourselves. Its essentially the same thing, someone is killed, hurt or in mortal danger power up time. Happened in the saiyan saga, namak saga, android/cell saga, Buu saga and even in BoG with Vegeta going nuts over Bulma.

Oh and the fact that its an element of the character Gohan is at his strongest when he loses his shit.
 
How I would like the Return of Freezer Saga to pan out:

Kuririn jumps into action to save Goku with a Senzu bean
Just in the moment he is about to throw the bean, Freezer teleports in his way
Kuririn accidently lands a mild punch right in Freezer's face
and with this also landing an one shot kill
*close up of Freezer's head exploding*

Everbody is like "WTF Kuririn?!"

Kuririn *blushes*
"Well, I guess that intense policeman training made me quite strong" *laughs awkwardly*

Goku (being half-dead) rushes to him
"Tell me everything about your training!"

"Oh, it was very intense. 100 Push-ups, 100 Sit-ups, 100 Squats, running 6 Miles, and that everyday for like 3 years!"

*Goku faints*

Blackscreen

♫ Chii sana sono ryoute ni kakaekirenai yume ♫
 
Ok guys while I agree that it would make sense for 18 to go the the front lines, even over Krillin, Krillin isn't sexist or a misogynist. I can't tell if people are series or not with those claims but either that's a stupid thing to say. Now if you want to throw shade at Toriyama, be my guest buy LMAO if you're throwing the blame onto Krillin.

Chaotic-Strike said:
She cares for her child?

You know like how people complain about what Goku should do.
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LOL there's a middle ground between the vigilante lifestyle of a costumed hero and a doting housewife. Like a martial arts instructor, or a fitness coach or whatever. Plus its clear Videl gave that all up before Pan was even born or likely conceived. The worst part of course is that the transition of Videl the fighter to Videl the housewife doesn't really feel natural at all.
 
Zee-Row said:
Kind of off topic but why does Dragonball Z look like complete shit on Hulu? The colors look washed out to hell and the screen has this forced zoomed in look that makes it fill the entire widescreen. I don't remember the DVDs looking this bad.
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Probably based on the orange brick sets, which cropped the original version to be faux widescreen.
 
Crocodile said:
Ok guys while I agree that it would make sense for 18 to go the the front lines, even over Krillin, Krillin isn't sexist or a misogynist. I can't tell if people are series or not with those claims but either that's a stupid thing to say. Now if you want to throw shade at Toriyama, be my guest buy LMAO if you're throwing the blame onto Krillin.



LOL there's a middle ground between the vigilante lifestyle of a costumed hero and a doting housewife. Like a martial arts instructor, or a fitness coach or whatever. Plus its clear Videl gave that all up before Pan was even born or likely conceived. The worst part of course is that the transition of Videl the fighter to Videl the housewife doesn't really feel natural at all.
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Well technically AT isn't writing Super himself only the outline, so I guess if anyone deserves blame for Krillin's comment it's Toei's writers.

As for Videl, the last we see of her in the manga is on the lookout after Goku beats Buu then there's the 5 year time skip, and she's already settled down with Gohan and looks nothing like a fighter anymore.

If anything is clear, it's that having a Child changed her priorities, which seem reasonable enough to me considering what her husband is prone to do.
 
Krillin's there because he's the more prominent character. If 18 wasn't married to Krillin, she'd probably be about as relevant now as 17.
 
CryptiK said:
Emotional power ups have been a constant thing. Lets not kid ourselves. Its essentially the same thing, someone is killed, hurt or in mortal danger power up time. Happened in the saiyan saga, namak saga, android/cell saga, Buu saga and even in BoG with Vegeta going nuts over Bulma.

Oh and the fact that its an element of the character Gohan is at his strongest when he loses his shit.
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Its not essentially the same thing considering you want to watch a character die for it to happen. It's like, sadistic and shit. Makes me wonder about you.
 
I wonder why we never saw "mastered" versions of SSJ2 and SSJ3. Kinda like how Goku and Gohan mastered SSJ1 where they could use it without such a drain on their power supply.
 
Ultra Numb said:
I wonder why we never saw "mastered" versions of SSJ2 and SSJ3. Kinda like how Goku and Gohan mastered SSJ1 where they could use it without such a drain on their power supply.
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In the Buu Saga, Toriyama seemed to be pretty much ignoring even the mastered version of SSJ1, with the old Kai saying that transformations are just to show off and too heavy on the body.

Nowadays, it's because SSJ2 and 3 have been pretty much reduced to variations of SSJ1, like those bulky Cell Saga forms, and the way to truly become strong is to train and fight in base and SSJ1 minimizing all the waste of energy. That had been mentioned by Toriyama in interviews, but it was actually highlighted in this last episode of Super. Even showing an aura while fighting was apparently doing it wrong according to Whis, since it was just a waste of energy. They had to concentrate all their ki inside their bodies, without letting anything leak.
 
So Vegeta is the top dog again, finally surpassing that low class warrior Kakarot.
The show is redeemed for me now.
I hope he stays at the top until the end.
 
Ingeniero said:
I hope he stays at the top until the end.
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Inb4 Vegeta is used as a prop to show how strong the next big antagonist is.

NeonZ said:
In the Buu Saga, Toriyama seemed to be pretty much ignoring even the mastered version of SSJ1, with the old Kai saying that transformations are just to show off and too heavy on the body.

Nowadays, it's because SSJ2 and 3 have been pretty much reduced to variations of SSJ1, like those bulky Cell Saga forms, and the way to truly become strong is to train and fight in base and SSJ1 minimizing all the waste of energy. That had been mentioned by Toriyama in interviews, but it was actually highlighted in this last episode of Super. Even showing an aura while fighting was apparently doing it wrong according to Whis, since it was just a waste of energy. They had to concentrate all their ki inside their bodies, without letting anything leak.
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So its kinda like Gohan's Elder-Kai form? In that state he has no drain on his energy and he can access everything without transforming further.
 
Pretty good episode buts it's a shame we didn't get to see any of friezas training in the 4 month time span. I thought it would have been interesting to see how he exactly obtained golden form and why is goten/trunks still left out of the fight. Sure they're kids but they'd be a lot more useful in the fight than turn or roshi.
 
Drilbit777 said:
Pretty good episode buts it's a shame we didn't get to see any of friezas training in the 4 month time span. I thought it would have been interesting to see how he exactly obtained golden form and why is goten/trunks still left out of the fight. Sure they're kids but they'd be a lot more useful in the fight than turn or roshi.
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Ive been saying this since the movies details first leaked. How is it more dangerous for them yet krillen,tien and roshi are there..bulma was there!! I think the excuse was like they would do something stupid like challenge frieza or something...SO. fuse up im sure would've done better than gohan
fG2Qs0hh.jpg



BELIEVE!!
 
Kagari said:
I want to see the adventures of 17, the park ranger.
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Told in DBGT.

Terrible story arc. Great idea, wasted potential all around.

Speaking of Xenoverse, we need another straight up fighting game. Extreme Butoden was a bit lackluster outside of its stellar OST.

I'm tired of these floaty air game games. Give us a real fighting game a la Budokai 3 again.
 
NeonZ said:
In the Buu Saga, Toriyama seemed to be pretty much ignoring even the mastered version of SSJ1, with the old Kai saying that transformations are just to show off and too heavy on the body.

Nowadays, it's because SSJ2 and 3 have been pretty much reduced to variations of SSJ1, like those bulky Cell Saga forms, and the way to truly become strong is to train and fight in base and SSJ1 minimizing all the waste of energy. That had been mentioned by Toriyama in interviews, but it was actually highlighted in this last episode of Super. Even showing an aura while fighting was apparently doing it wrong according to Whis, since it was just a waste of energy. They had to concentrate all their ki inside their bodies, without letting anything leak.
Click to expand...

Then what was the point of Goku turning SSJ against Freeza? Goku was getting his ass kicked by him until he transformed, and his strength and speed increased dramatically.

Could've Gohan defeated Cell without transforming into SSJ2? Seems like Gohan was just afraid to fight in SSJ form, and it wasn't until SSJ2 was when he started to fight.
 
The show diverges quite a bit from the movie in that the timeline seems far more cramped. The movie made it look like the new SSB form was old news for both Goku and Vegeta, while I think Super is building up for a transformation during the actual battle (total deja vu for Freeza).
 
Jason's Ultimatum said:
Then what was the point of Goku turning SSJ against Freeza? Goku was getting his ass kicked by him until he transformed, and his strength and speed increased dramatically.

Could've Gohan defeated Cell without transforming into SSJ2? Seems like Gohan was just afraid to fight in SSJ form, and it wasn't until SSJ2 was when he started to fight.
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Nowadays? SSJ is the one transformation that was considered truly useful, it just needed more training to be refined, so everything still stays the same there regarding Goku vs Freeza. And, about Cell, I'd guess the current point of view is that it was a mix of SSJ2 and Gohan's anger boost, rather than just the SSJ2 transformation by itself. We haven't gotten an official comment about that, so it's just speculation, but, really, if that one occasion is removed, SSJ2 doesn't have anything really pointing out that it was ever much stronger than SSJ1.

Going back to the Buu Saga, it was never denied that SSJ was useful, but it was said to be too straining for the body, unlike what was shown in the Cell Saga, and that it was the wrong way to achieve power. It was all hyping up Gohan's Ultimate state, which turned out pointless in the end anyway, which is why what was said there doesn't really match what happened before or after very well.
 
It's kinda funny because most people talked about how BOG seemed too long in Super, but now most of the complaints are about RoF not taking more time to tell its story. Hopefully, it at least means we get new material sooner.
 
NeonZ said:
Nowadays? SSJ is the one transformation that was considered truly useful, it just needed more training to be refined, so everything still stays the same there regarding Goku vs Freeza. And, about Cell, I'd guess the current point of view is that it was a mix of SSJ2 and Gohan's anger boost, rather than just the SSJ2 transformation by itself. We haven't gotten an official comment about that, so it's just speculation, but, really, if that one occasion is removed, SSJ2 doesn't have anything really pointing out that it was ever much stronger than SSJ1.
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Yes, if you remove the one occasion where we see SSJ2 for an extended period of time and it's demonstrably much stronger than SSJ1, then there's nothing pointing to it being any stronger. :P

Cromat said:
The show diverges quite a bit from the movie in that the timeline seems far more cramped. The movie made it look like the new SSB form was old news for both Goku and Vegeta, while I think Super is building up for a transformation during the actual battle (total deja vu for Freeza).
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Doesn't the SSJB moment in this ep happen before the four month timeskip though?
 
Super Saiyan Blue, while less dumb than Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, is still a really dumb name.
 
Blader said:
Yes, if you remove the one occasion where we see SSJ2 for an extended period of time and it's demonstrably much stronger than SSJ1, then there's nothing pointing to it being any stronger. :P
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SSJ2 is used all the time in the Buu Saga by Goku and Vegeta though, starting from the Yakon battle.
 
Basically the SSJ transformations were a crutch to get power multipliers without making their actual base form that much stronger.

While Whis's training makes the SSJ God form and Base more efficient without wasting power like SSJ2 and 3.
 
Krillin going instead of 18 makes sense. If you're gonna need to protect your kid, do you want the parent that's a jobber or the powerful to protect them just in case?

Krillin would keel over immediately if 18 lost and poor Marin. =(
 
We also also I knew that 2 and 3 were powered up forms of 1. That is exactly the nature of these from the start. The new spin just makes the whole Super Saiyan thing more clear. You can't reach any of the other forms without going 1 first.

None of that changes the fact that 2 and 3 are more powerful than 1. Maybe I'm reading into this wrong but I don't see how that's a debate.
 
Jason's Ultimatum said:
Yeah, that's strange. I mean, you powered up. Didn't seem to drain gohan's energy. The little shit was beatened and had a broken arm, yet still was able to defeat cell.
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We may not see SSJ2 drain out energy like 3 does, but it still uses up a lot of power just to transform in the first place. It's why the old Kai gave Gohan the mystic power up in the first place.

So I guess the logic (lol) here is that raising your base level + conditioning your body to use SSJ1 without draining energy > SSJ2 + the energy loss from transforming.
 
Blader said:
We may not see SSJ2 drain out energy like 3 does, but it still uses up a lot of power just to transform in the first place. It's why the old Kai gave Gohan the mystic power up in the first place.

So I guess the logic (lol) here is that raising your base level + conditioning your body to use SSJ1 without draining energy > SSJ2 + the energy loss from transforming.
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The whole SSJ2 is a massive energy drain is a retcon. I could be wrong but for the longest SS2 had no drawbacks. SS3 was stated to be a massive energy drainer from the start, but didn't take away from the fact that SS3 > SS2 > SS1.
 
Stuart444 said:
One of my few wishes for DB is to see 17 again :(
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That might be at the top of my list at this point.

What's our favorite park ranger been doing all this time? Chilling with mountain tribes? Ayahuasca?

And you'd think he might, you know, give his sister a call or something.
 
It was my understanding that SS2 was fine to use and the problem was SS3, since it drained too much energy, to the point that Goku was only able to attain and somewhat master it while dead. I don't remember what exactly the Old Kai mentioned about the SS transformation. I really hope they go as far as SS2 and then SSB. I liked SS3 when I was a kid but I like the idea of it being an unnatural evolution of the Super Saiyan.
 
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