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[Darius]

That's one way to lose business.

lol, but the outrage culture has "absolutely nothing" to do with this decision. The audacity to call the KOEI community manager a liar is really something else. Such arrogance and "know-it-all" behaviour many have shown is just ridiculous. While I don´t exclude an eventual US or EU release, concerns at KOEI-Tecmo are very likely seeing how even the damsel in distress archetype was victim of attacks, in this game we are talking about almost naked characters doing suggestive poses and that would be a very big target for attacks and bad press.

 

[dity]

Because I don't want to live in that world. TRUTHFULLY. That sounds horrifying. I want everyone to be able to make jokes about whatever they want even if it offends ME. Making a joke about something and truly hating something are two very different things. Context is key.

And you're making a couple assumptions about me. That's ok, but I will tell you that those assumptions are incorrect. I'm not letting people walk all over me. If something upsets me or offends me, I have no qualms telling them. My point is that they shouldn't have to change their behavior and I would be horrified if the rest of the world stopped telling jokes about certain things just because it offended me at one point.

It sounds horrifying to live in a world where people don't take the piss out of people who are different or dead simply because they're different or dead?

Telling someone if something upsets you or offends you is basically a trigger warning from your end. You're essentially saying "I don't like this," and if they keep doing this why put up with it? They don't care about your feelings. Why are these people your friends? Because telling people something hurts you and then just letting them keep doing it is letting them walk all over you, even if you deny it. It sounds like stockholm syndrome in a way.

 

[Finalantagonist]

Damn dude, no lie, that's kinda fucked up re: jokes about your dad. Sorry you had to deal with that, even if you think they were helpful.

Anyways, the way I ultimately see it is like this:

In an imaginary world, I run a blog where I post short fiction stories. Most of them are lighthearted adventure stories, but one of them is really fucked up and dark, so I throw a warning for..let's say violence and abuse, and then the story is posted like normal. No editing, no self-censoring, just a warning.

That's all it is, and I don't HAVE to do it. I'm sure there are a million things people could pick at my other (imaginary) stories about and say "ugh your character are a salad, I almost choked on a salad once!!!", but knowing that violence and abuse are much more likely to be trigger someone somewhere, I just put the little warning on there out of courtesy.

Idk why I wrote so much, and I don't think it'll change you, but I hope you can at least understand why people care about it.

Edit: also the racist shit is a whole 'nother discussion lol

You don't have to apologize! It's fine. I truly love that it's possible to do that in this day and age. Those jokes upset me at the time but I made a conscious decision to change how I let things effect me (truthfully, I made that decision not just because of the jokes my friends made about my dad but because of other shit I got made fun of growing up) and I think that's a good way to handle it since I like the benefits it gave me immediately and later on. I also see the virtue in offensive things. For instance, I moved to the States as a kid and I love America and American history is full of people who offended the status quo. I think it's what makes this country so awesome and why I now call it home.

 

[Lime]

Cool, so now we have another made-up case that has to be debunked in future conversations about topics of representation and inclusion in video games. All for the purpose of conjuring up a story to drum up sales from one specific retailer.

I'm real tired of people using 'free speech' and 'honesty' to excuse asshat behaviour. Being considerate for other people is not trampling your human rights, it's basic human decency.

Everyone is so bent on their rights that they forget freedoms come with responsibilities. Yeah, you do have the right to be a jerk but sooner or later it's going to have concequences. It's going to affect how other people relate to you and it's going to affect other people's feelings. Thoughtless words can cut deep. For a suicidal person it can be the final straw. You can't shift the blame on the listener. It's not a question of people choosing to be offended, it's about feelings that can be devastating and something one can't help. Telling others to 'grow a thicker skin' so that you can keep on saying whatever is just BS.

Perfect concise post. I attribute it to a lack of empathy.

 

[Tecnniqe]

Nobody is burning anything here.

Nah but I'm talking about the whole thing in general that the tweet was all about.
I just don't get the whole thing as I could not care less what's in a a game, if it's offending or whatever I'll just opt to not purchase the product.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Conservative, puritanical, sex-negative feminist women!

Damn them!

It's really disgusting how sex-negative has been warped to mean anti-rape.

 

[Heyt]

Why is the notion of that people campainging against a kind of game existing being to blame for the non-commercialization of such a game in fear of a backlash considered so radical? Some people are even determined to not make business with the people who just pointed it out. Insane.

 

[Par Score]

The games industry has been implicitly pandering to Gator types since the 80s, I guess it shouldn't be surprising to see that pandering become explicit now they have a name and forums and shit.

Disappointing, sure, but not surprising.

Enjoy your new fans Play-Asia, you deserve each other.

Why is the notion of that people campainging against a kind of game existing being to blame for the non-commercialization of such a game in fear of a backlash considered so radical? Some people are even determined to not make business with the people who just pointed it out. Insane.

Who was campaigning against the existence of this game, or any game?

Criticism of media is not the same as calling for it not to exist.

 

[plufim]

Why is the notion of that people campainging against a kind of game existing being to blame for the non-commercialization of such a game in fear of a backlash considered so radical? Some people are even determined to not make business with the people who just pointed it out. Insane.

For me it's about the fact that PA is pandering to gamergate. The scum of the earth.

 

[Finalantagonist]

It sounds horrifying to live in a world where people don't take the piss out of people who are different or dead simply because they're different or dead?

Telling someone if something upsets you or offends you is basically a trigger warning from your end. You're essentially saying "I don't like this," and if they keep doing this why put up with it? They don't care about your feelings. Why are these people your friends? Because telling people something hurts you and then just letting them keep doing it is letting them walk all over you, even if you deny it. It sounds like stockholm syndrome in a way.

NOW we agree completely. That's not how I understood a "trigger warning". The word "warning" and what people here have said and elsewhere of the term led me to believe it's "pro-active". Like a warning you put before you say something because someone MIGHT be offended by it. If person A says something to person B and person B says "I don't like that" and person A continues, person B can and should separate themselves from that person (but person A is still allowed to say it knowing they might drive person B away from talking to/respecting them). You don't have to read or be around people who say things that offend you and you absolutely should walk away. My point is more that person A is still welcome to say the things they said. Person B just doesn't have to listen to it and can ignore that person. There might be people who agree with Person A or just value their point tho.

In the context of the original post, the point might be "If you don't like what Play-Asia's Twitter guy said, you don't have to listen.".

 

[DICKS AHOY]

Now whether Play Asia are clever marketers, believe what they are saying or whatever is going on i have no clue.

Given they apparently surged in like 3k followers in the past few hours I think it's pretty obvious they knew exactly what they were doing here.

I think it comes down to whether anyone in Play-Asia beyond the community manager cares about this, and the more I read the more I get the impression their userbase really was niche enough for them to not give a fuck about doing this.

KT should just go digital-only for DOAX3 to side-step this whole thing if it really is just 'outside influences' bothering them rather than sales.

 

[Finalantagonist]

Nobody is burning anything here.

That's not true. I just lit a cigarette.

 

[plufim]

Being triggered isn't just being offended. It is reliving trauma.

 

[Anne]

I think the actual answer is this:

1) Yes, they were afraid the backlash wouldn't be worth it. It has been obvious they are embarrassed of what DOA has become since DOA5 tried to rebrand the series, failed miserably, and they made hot bank on appealing to the audience that wants ass & titties. They're a company, this makes money, they're going to pursue this where it makes sense to do so, and it doesn't make sense to do so in America because it is culturally different.

2) They wouldn't care about the first one if it was going to do well. It's not. It'd sell fucking terribly and probably will sell fucking terribly when it comes out. The PS4 audience isn't the otaku audience here and the Vita audience isn't big enough to care about. You know what the main driver behind this decision is? It's not DOAX3 itself, it's probably Toukiden, which they openly admit greatly disappointed them. They have assumed before that the Vita and PS4 audiences overlap in the west, and this is very much a Vita audience game, and that assumption has burned them.

They're concerned about 1, but they wouldn't care if it would sell well. They have outright said as much. They would bring it over if there was demand, there is no demand, so they're not bringing it over.

Which brings me to what I think is happening now, 3) they're just making excuses. This clears them of any anger, it clears them from having to make a print run from a game that stores won't want to buy, that will distract from their DLC money makers of DOA5 and Core Fighters, and will be an annoying albatross around their neck when they decide to bring out DOA6. They're also not ignorant of how the eSports scene views DOA and how they outright ban costumes and can't get the game to EVO because it's just Anime Titties: The Fighter to most people. The DOA5 in-game ticker mentions every weekly tournament in someone's boys and girls club rumpus room, so they're fully aware that this strategy is not doing them favors in America. The guy at Koei Tecmo said what would quickly solve his problem, realized this does way more harm than good, and quickly deleted it.

They're trying to cover their own asses, Play-Asia took advantage of it, and now it has become a shitstorm.

To add to this, DOAX3 is the type of game that exists to exploit an otaku fueled fanbase. Look at the premium pricing of the game and the insane special editions. It's pretty clear they are trying to cash in on the incredibly niche and hardcore base as much as possible. It's not an uncommon thing that happens with expensive anime Blu Rays and all that nonsense.

So there's a couple other things happening here. Can they rely on that same type of fanbase to exist in the west? Probably not. Can they even get a retailer to stock these crazy hundred dollar plus special editions of a very niche gravure game? Probably not. DOAX2 sold poorly and was critically panned so hard that it basically tainted the series. The PSP attempt went over even worse. It's a very hard sell to try and push this product into the west at this point.

And even if they were to push it into the west, how are they going to do that without interfering with their Asian market? Sell it at a premium here too? That's suicide at retail. Sell it at a lower cost? That's suicide by reverse importing. On top of the already dodgy proposal based on how the western market has reacted before, it probably doesn't look like it's worth mentioning right now. Most anybody in the western market who wants this game is probably likely enough to import it at that premium price anyways, so why bother?

Instead of PR guys saying "releasing this in the west jeopardizes our exploitative market strategy and profits for no gain" it's probably better for them to have no comment or just say anything to deflect from that. Somebody did that with something that sounds plausible to a lot of people (we don't want the bad press), it stirred some stuff, and they doubled down. They even push the high priced import copies while the retailers understand this and double down with/for them.

If there is money to be made off localizing it in the west after the Asian market is bled out, then it might see a limited release and they can say "Hey, you guys really wanted this and we loved you enough to decide to bring it over." That's a really general explanation, I'm sure somebody who knows more about this stuff can fill in gaps and present it better.

 

[Atwa]

Play Asia twitter followers are skyrocketing. Up 3000 just since this.

 

[SomedayTheFire]

Pathetic thread.

I'm real tired of people using 'free speech' and 'honesty' to excuse asshat behaviour. Being considerate for other people is not trampling your human rights, it's basic human decency.

Everyone is so bent on their rights that they forget freedoms come with responsibilities. Yeah, you do have the right to be a jerk but sooner or later it's going to have concequences. It's going to affect how other people relate to you and it's going to affect other people's feelings. Thoughtless words can cut deep. For a suicidal person it can be the final straw. You can't shift the blame on the listener. It's not a question of people choosing to be offended, it's about feelings that can be devastating and something one can't help. Telling others to 'grow a thicker skin' so that you can keep on saying whatever is just BS.

This however is a great post.

 

[plufim]

Play Asia twitter followers are skyrocketing. Up 4000 just since this.

That's gamergate.

But won't help their sales.

 

[Raggie]

Why is the notion of that people campainging against a kind of game existing being to blame for the non-commercialization of such a game in fear of a backlash considered so radical? Some people are even determined to not make business with the people who just pointed it out. Insane.

There is no campaign.

 

[dity]

NOW we agree completely. That's not how I understood a "trigger warning". The word "warning" and what people here have said and elsewhere of the term lead me to believe it's "pro-active". Like a warning you put before you say something because someone MIGHT be offended by it. If person A says something to person B and person B says "I don't like that" and person A continues, person A can and should separate themselves from that person. You don't have to read or be around people who say things that offend you and you absolutely should walk away. My point is more that person A is still welcome to say the things they said. Person B just doesn't have to listen to it and can ignore that person. There might be people who agree with Person A or just value their point tho.

In the context of the original post, the point might be "If you don't like what Play-Asia's Twitter guy said, you don't have to listen.".

Well a trigger warning can also be pre-emptive, it's just if we're talking about real life and active conversation telling someone something upsets you and then having them warn you if it needs to come up again in the future is probably the only way it's going to go down. On the internet, it's basically the same as a game's ESRB rating. No one flips a shit about video game ratings - and a trigger warning on the 'net is exactly that.

 

[Palculator]

I would argue it is. DOAX3, if previous games in the series are any indication, is garbage for idiots, bad as games and as cultural items depicting women. They're terrible, and people defending them likely aren't any better.

lol

Well, you're proving the point some of us are making.

What the fuck? Is this serious post?

Which is quite funny, because I know plenty of women that enjoy DOAX. Even more so than guys. Which I have heard reinforced a lot as well.

...really? You actually believe this?

lol, wow...and then there was this

I'm relieved it was probably a joke, because it wasn't serious enough to actually defend, it seems.

 

[Finalantagonist]

Being triggered isn't just being offended. It is reliving trauma.

That's an unfortunate byproduct of trauma, yes. I relive the trauma of my dad dying every time Father's Day roles around. Doesn't mean we should do away with Father's Day just cause it "triggers" me. Same thing with jokes and opinions/statements.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

To add to this, DOAX3 is the type of game that exists to exploit an otaku fueled fanbase. Look at the premium pricing of the game and the insane special editions. It's pretty clear they are trying to cash in on the incredibly niche and hardcore base as much as possible. It's not an uncommon thing that happens with expensive anime Blu Rays and all that nonsense.

So there's a couple other things happening here. Can they rely on that same type of fanbase to exist in the west? Probably not. Can they even get a retailer to stock these crazy hundred dollar plus special editions of a very niche gravure game? Probably not. DOAX2 sold poorly and was critically panned so hard that it basically tainted the series. The PSP attempt went over even worse. It's a very hard sell to try and push this product into the west at this point.

And even if they were to push it into the west, how are they going to do that without interfering with their Asian market? Sell it at a premium here too? That's suicide at retail. Sell it at a lower cost? That's suicide by reverse importing. On top of the already dodgy proposal based on how the western market has reacted before, it probably doesn't look like it's worth mentioning right now. Most anybody in the western market who wants this game is probably likely enough to import it at that premium price anyways, so why bother?

Instead of PR guys saying "releasing this in the west jeopardizes our exploitative market strategy and profits for no gain" it's probably better for them to have no comment or just say anything to deflect from that. Somebody did that with something that sounds plausible to a lot of people (we don't want the bad press), it stirred some stuff, and they doubled down.

If there is money to be made off localizing it in the west after the Asian market is bled out, then it might see a limited release and they can say "Hey, you guys really wanted this and we loved you enough to decide to bring it over." That's a really general explanation, I'm sure somebody who knows more about this stuff can fill in gaps and present it better.

The reverse-importation thing is a great point, I had forgotten all about that.

Selling the game cheaper in the west is the only way to sell it and then reverse-importation becomes a major concern from the people who they're trying to exploit in the asian markets.

Maybe their best bet is to wait five months for people in asian markets to spend their load, then release it on PSN in America, "for the fans."

 

[Anne]

The reverse-importation thing is a great point, I had forgotten all about that.

Selling the game cheaper in the west is the only way to sell it and then reverse-importation becomes a major concern from the people who they're trying to exploit in the asian markets.

Maybe their best bet is to wait five months for people in asian markets to spend their load, then release it on PSN in America, "for the fans."

Basically. Again, they can spin this as "The SJWs don't want you to have this, but you can still get it (for a premium)" instead of saying "Fuck you, give us more money."

Edit: I expect this thread to be closed down very soon, I just find it incredible it took 26 pages for somebody to explain this when it's a pretty standard explanation for this type of thing.

edit edit: Also the fact a lot of the thread was derailed by the off topic conversation of a troll is pretty dumb.

 

[twobear]

there's no way that isn't a reference to this is spinal tap right

 

[Raggie]

That's an unfortunate byproduct of trauma, yes. I relive the trauma of my dad dying every time Father's Day roles around. Doesn't mean we should do away with Father's Day just cause it "triggers" me. Same thing with jokes and opinions/statements.

Maybe you should start farting at people then. You have the right after all. If someone gets offended they should grow a thicker skin and get over it. It's not like you can live without ever offending anyone, so why worry about it?

 

[Mr. Pointy]

Maybe their best bet is to wait five months for people in asian markets to spend their load, then release it on PSN in America, "for the fans."

I expect the PS4 version of DOAX3, and maybe a later PC port, to get a digital release in the West in about 6-12 months.

 

[Honey Bunny]

Probably correct. Though I still don't believe they've completely ruled out a western release.

 

[Finalantagonist]

Well a trigger warning can also be pre-emptive, it's just if we're talking about real life and active conversation telling someone something upsets you and then having them warn you if it needs to come up again in the future is probably the only way it's going to go down. On the internet, it's basically the same as a game's ESRB rating. No one flips a shit about video game ratings - and a trigger warning on the 'net is exactly that.

If that's how you define a "trigger warning", then I think you and I have agreeing views. If, however, you decide that your point is more important that potentially offending some people, I think that's great too. In some cases it's unfortunate (like if you think PTSD patients should just "get over it" or something), but in some cases it isn't (like if you think there should be "no taxation without representation" on all tea that comes into your harbor, even if a ruling monarchy finds it "offensive").

(Both things in parentheses are extreme examples, I know )

 

[Finalantagonist]

Maybe you should start farting at people then. You have the right after all. If someone gets offended they should grow a thicker skin and get over it. It's not like you can live without ever offending anyone, so why worry about it?

Pretty sure it's obvious we're discussing offensive SPEECH here, not actions. There are laws against offending actions, not speech. Just like hitting someone for having a difference of opinion from you as opposed to simply arguing with them are two very different things. Your point doesn't really suit the narrative.

 

[RealityCheque]

I'm scared of bewbs.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Play Asia twitter followers are skyrocketing. Up 3000 just since this.

There's a sucker born every minute

 

[Oersted]

That's an unfortunate byproduct of trauma, yes. I relive the trauma of my dad dying every time Father's Day roles around. Doesn't mean we should do away with Father's Day just cause it "triggers" me. Same thing with jokes and opinions/statements.

How often will you set up this strawman?

 

[Finalantagonist]

I'm scared of bewbs.

 

[Finalantagonist]

How often will you set up this strawman?

I think it's a fair point.

 

[Akibared]

I'm relieved it was probably a joke, because it wasn't serious enough to actually defend, it seems.

I hope so.

 

[Sesuadra]

glad I ordered the JP version from amiami.

nippon-yasan for me

god I hate play-asia. such a shitty sitze/company.

 

[ElNarez]

I'm relieved it was probably a joke, because it wasn't serious enough to actually defend, it seems.

As well as it being a joke, it's also what I believe 100%. "Garbage game doesn't make it to the West because it's garbage" isn't a story, whereas "Garbage game doesn't make it to the West because of an evil conspiracy finding its roots in decades of culture war" is, and that's what the trash peddlers of Gamergate are pushing.

 

[inoperativ]

Time for Play-Asia to fire their social media guy.

And swiftly.

 

[AmaterasuOni]

SJWs are trying to ruin everything. Games, movies, music, literature, art. Fucking fascists.

Not that I would play DOA, but the devs have every right to create what ever they feel like and release it where ever they want to. It's up to the consumers to buy it or not to buy it. These fascist SJWs are now banning the fun from everyone who wanted to play it. Modern nazism. Herd mentality at its finest, goddamn sheep.

"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." - Evelyn Beatrice Hall

 

[Oersted]

I think it's a fair point.

You are missing the point again, after several posters explaining it to you again and again.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

SJWs are trying to ruin everything. Games, movies, music, literature, art. Fucking fascists.

Not that I would play DOA, but the devs have every right to create what ever they feel like and release it where ever they want to. It's up to the consumers to buy it or not to buy it. These fascist SJWs are now banning the fun from everyone who wanted to play it. Modern nazism. Herd mentality at its finest, goddamn sheep.

"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." - Evelyn Beatrice Hall

This is a fantastic post to read in conjunction with the knowledge that you didn't read beyond the title.

 

[Finalantagonist]

You are missing the point again, after several posters explaining it to you again and again.

I think I've responded to the opposing points well. I just have stated I don't agree and why.

 

[Nanashrew]

SJWs are trying to ruin everything. Games, movies, music, literature, art. Fucking fascists.

Not that I would play DOA, but the devs have every right to create what ever they feel like and release it where ever they want to. It's up to the consumers to buy it or not to buy it. These fascist SJWs are now banning the fun from everyone who wanted to play it. Modern nazism. Herd mentality at its finest, goddamn sheep.

"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." - Evelyn Beatrice Hall

Before going to bed, I want to explain one more time that no one had to do with anything that happened from keeping it from getting localized.

No articles or negative opinions of the game anywhere, not even the DOAX3 GAF thread that Nirolak looked through. In fact, many didn't even know of its existence. What the person managing the social media accounts did was manufacture controversy and making a boogieman that people know of and marketing at Play-Asia is using that. They passed blame on people who had no idea of that game's existence.

Who's the blind sheep here?

 

[Lime]

This is a fantastic post to read in conjunction with the knowledge that you didn't read beyond the title.

Dude has to be sarcastic, all it needed was a Stephen Frye image macro.

I think I've responded to the opposing points well. I just have stated I don't agree and why.

No, you don't understand the point. You set up examples that have nothing to do with what is being argued.

Besides, the whole trigger discussion is off-topic.

 

[Sai-kun]

SJWs are trying to ruin everything. Games, movies, music, literature, art. Fucking fascists.

Not that I would play DOA, but the devs have every right to create what ever they feel like and release it where ever they want to. It's up to the consumers to buy it or not to buy it. These fascist SJWs are now banning the fun from everyone who wanted to play it. Modern nazism. Herd mentality at its finest, goddamn sheep.

"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." - Evelyn Beatrice Hall

Poe's law, Poe's law!!! Help! I need an adult 😭

 

[Noray]

SJWs are trying to ruin everything. Games, movies, music, literature, art. Fucking fascists.

Not that I would play DOA, but the devs have every right to create what ever they feel like and release it where ever they want to. It's up to the consumers to buy it or not to buy it. These fascist SJWs are now banning the fun from everyone who wanted to play it. Modern nazism. Herd mentality at its finest, goddamn sheep.

"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." - Evelyn Beatrice Hall

You have no idea what fascism means, but please, keep fighting the SJW boogiemen. Calling it nazism is fucking gross. This is extraordinary drivel. If this post is meant to be parody, perfect example of Poe's Law

There was no campaign against this game. They're just drumming up some controversy. So tacky.

Open and shut case. http://jeff.zone/post/133896303626/what-do-you-think-of-the-whole-doax3-stuff-is-we

 

[Heyt]

As well as it being a joke, it's also what I believe 100%. "Garbage game doesn't make it to the West because it's garbage" isn't a story, whereas "Garbage game doesn't make it to the West because of an evil conspiracy finding its roots in decades of culture war" is, and that's what the trash peddlers of Gamergate are pushing.

Well, didn't the others games come over and were still quite trash? According the original comment by tecmo-koei's community manager the reason is the current state of the debate about women in gaming, wich makes sense knowing that cyberactivism on the gaming space has skyrocketed since 2011 more or less and has a huge presence in the gaming press and social media. I mean, look at this thread. People are deciding to avoid play-asia just for bringing up a very clear connection.

I also don't think play-asia is pandering to gamergate with the terms they're using. The SJW label existed and was used before last year. Gamergate just uses it.

 

[Palculator]

As well as it being a joke, it's also what I believe 100%.

You're just admitting it's a ridiculous belief.

 

[Oersted]

I think I've responded to the opposing points well. I just have stated I don't agree and why.

You miss the point on you missing the point. Quite an achievement. It is not about we should do away with Father's Day or forbidding words. Its about warning. To use a very example, you can still spoiler, but people appreciate when you will them beforehand you will spoiler. Simple social skills.

 

[Finalantagonist]

No, you don't understand the point. You set up examples that have nothing to do with what is being argued.

Besides, the whole trigger discussion is off-topic.

I understand the point. And I've responded. I just don't agree with the point.

And you're right about being off-topic from the original topic. It evolved (devolved?) into that. I still think Play-Asia's twitter guy is allowed to tweet what they want and KT has a fair point if they really did receive that kind of backlash and I think it's certainly possible they did. It just evolved into a bigger discussion.