Dragon Ball Super |OT| 28 Episodes Later

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flintstryker said:
Seriously why do you people like Gotenks?
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We don't.

Gonks is a failure at everything.

Adult Gotenks might be cool. Dragon Ball Heroes to the rescue again!

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Sad to see Gotenks have such little impact. It was clear that his blow to Tagoma was pretty strong. He is likely the strongest warrior on Earth by a fair margin.

And damn.. Piccolo is weak. Piccolo and Gohan's power levels probably shouldn't even be that far apart.
 
shadowsdarknes said:
Sad to see Gotenks have such little impact. It was clear that his blow to Tagoma was pretty strong. He is likely the strongest warrior on Earth by a fair margin.

And damn.. Piccolo is weak. Piccolo and Gohan's power levels probably shouldn't even be that far apart.
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Can't really compete with Super Saiyan which at this point is just a free 50x base power boost. Goten and Trunks achieved it with seemingly no effort.
 
shadowsdarknes said:
Sad to see Gotenks have such little impact. It was clear that his blow to Tagoma was pretty strong. He is likely the strongest warrior on Earth by a fair margin.

And damn.. Piccolo is weak. Piccolo and Gohan's power levels probably shouldn't even be that far apart.
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Yeah yeah, more power level discussion but... it seems Gohan is stronger than Piccolo in base form? So not sure why you think their power levels are that far apart when you factor in SSJ.
 
Piccolo should be way stronger than base super saiyans ( probably around the level of goku at cell games) but i guess toriyama forgot. Gohan not using mystic either Kappaccino.
 
When are you guys going to learn that Dragon Ball is all about Goku and maybe also Vegeta?

Give up, people. Gohan won't be relevant again. Piccolo will never get a massive power boost and the rest of the characters will remain the losers Toriyama made them to be since DBZ.
 
Ishida said:
When are you guys going to learn that Dragon Ball is all about Goku and maybe also Vegeta?

Give up, people. Gohan won't be relevant again. Piccolo will never get a massive power boost and the rest of the characters will remain the losers Toriyama made them to be since DBZ.
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Your supposition is based in evident truths but I remain vigilant in my desire.
 
Ishida said:
When are you guys going to learn that Dragon Ball is all about Goku and maybe also Vegeta?

Give up, people. Gohan won't be relevant again. Piccolo will never get a massive power boost and the rest of the characters will remain the losers Toriyama made them to be since DBZ.
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Piccolo will abaorb all the Black Water Mist and get a power up!
 
The problem is the way Piccolo is being treated right now. He got slapped around way too easily. Like I said, Super is too inconsistent.
 
SolVanderlyn said:
Your supposition is based in evident truths but I remain vigilant in my desire.
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I mean, I'm sorry. I would absolutely LOVE for Piccolo, Gohan, Trunks, Goten, and hell, even the HUMANS to kick some ass.

But that's not the path Toriyama has chosen for this franchise. Goku and Vegeta will keep powering up and up and up. The rest will become punching bags for the enemies.
 
Just saw the episode myself.
Frieza had a fucking attack hearing Gohan spare Ginyu like that. That was more funny than serious.
 
Welfare said:
Just saw the episode myself.
Frieza had a fucking attack hearing Gohan spare Ginyu like that. That was more funny than serious.
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Frieza was more menacing here than in the movie. After he starts torturing Gohan he tells him to cry and beg for his life and then he tells him it doesn't matter because he's going to kill him anyway.
Fucking brutal.
 
Kagari said:
Frieza was more menacing here than in the movie. After he starts torturing Gohan he tells him to cry and beg for his life and then he tells him it doesn't matter because he's going to kill him anyway.
Fucking brutal.
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I liked it. This guy was a tyrant and we really didn't see that side much. Him torturing someone with his power like that was a cool moment for Frieza.

Gohan needs to go into that place Goku and Vegeta are in and just go SSJB and hold it. This should be THE moment Gohan realizes that he needs to train.
 
Welfare said:
I liked it. This guy was a tyrant and we really didn't see that side much. Him torturing someone with his power like that was a cool moment for Frieza.

Gohan needs to go into that place Goku and Vegeta are in and just go SSJB and hold it. This should be THE moment Gohan realizes that he needs to train.
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I liked it because Frieza actually did something threatening unlike the entirety of RoF lol.
 
What was with all of the inconsistent power levels and de-powered people this episode?

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At times I felt like I was watching GT.
 
Kagari said:
For one, Piccolo is supposed to be above SSJ1 level but can't do anything to Tagoma/Ginyu.
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SSJ1 level is meaningless since it multiplies base power. If you have a base power level of 10 trillion it will multiply that by 50.

EDIT: I know Gohan has lost a lot of his power but he was at one point above SSJ3 Goku and SSJ3 Gotenks. I doubt he could lose enough of that to be weaker than the likes of Piccolo I don't care how long he's been out of action.
 
Kagari said:
For one, Piccolo is supposed to be above SSJ1 level but can't do anything to Tagoma/Ginyu.
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Piccolo was only ever above SSJ1 after he fused.

Then the Saiyans went into the time chamber and a massive gap was opened between them. As far as I remember Piccolo also uses the chamber after that, but we never really get a good understanding of his gains.

Add in the 7 years of training between Cell and Buu, and Piccolo is likely nowhere near any of the SSJ1s, bar the kids.
 
shadowsdarknes said:
Sad to see Gotenks have such little impact. It was clear that his blow to Tagoma was pretty strong. He is likely the strongest warrior on Earth by a fair margin.
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Roshi's dialogue suggested that it was mostly due to it being a "dirty" move.

G.ZZZ said:
Piccolo should be way stronger than base super saiyans ( probably around the level of goku at cell games) but i guess toriyama forgot. Gohan not using mystic either Kappaccino.
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Gohan has the Elder Kaioshin power up, which was never stated to have been lost aside from fan assumptions. Piccolo being unable to make Tagoma flinch while Gohan sent him flying pretty much confirms that base Gohan = Ultimate Gohan. He's weaker due to lack of training, but you'd think that if the power up had actually vanished completely something would have been mentioned.

Edit: Also, the dialogue in this episode says that he didn't transform into SSJ before because it's very heavy for his body.
 
Gohan wasn't kidding when he said he wasn't sure if could still turn Super Saiyan, holy crap is he out of shape, his beanstalk body taking a toll.

Dammnit Gohan now you got Piccolo sacrificing himself yet again for you.
 
The SSJ line always seemed weird to me because he hadn't needed to use it because of the Elder Kai unlock situation so having not used it for some time then of course he'd say that. Some fans just went overboard with it I think.
 
So I think I finally understand what Mystic or Ultimate Gohan is after all this time. It's just the maximum amount of power his body can sustain? Is that right? Obviously that would increase if he trained.
 
VanquishUK said:
What is this based on though?
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As said above, Gohan and Piccolo. Maybe I missed a line being said somewhere but they both had inconsistent power levels.

I understand how some of you are trying to equate Gohan's lowered power level to someone not working out in a gym or not training for a sport and becoming worse at either.

However, was this ever confirmed with power levels? I would assume if you reached a certain echelon of Saiyan power that it works differently than working out, that you can tap back into it regardless of how long you haven't been training. It hasn't even been that long of a gap of time from Gohan facing Buu to Gohan facing revived Frieza's thug, for Gohan to go from 'bodybuilder' status to 'can't lift 100lbs' status. At least for Yamcha it makes sense, he just about completely quit after the Cell saga. Also, I would assume Piccolo would still have been training for that 7 years and even the time beyond Majin Buu. Did he simply reach a power cap?
 
Episode was good but why bother bringing Ginyu back for only one episode? If they needed a reason for Togama to be weaker they shouldn't have made him so strong in the first place.

Gotenks was wasted potential but still funny, and I loved the legible sequence Frieza had when he heard Gohan, before going full tyrant on him.

I thought Gohan was going to deflect the final blast and become angry again, unlocking his full potential again. But I guess not. The Piccolo moment would be more powerful if we didn't already know he'll be fixed up with a senzu next episode.

I'd like to imagine this being the catalyst for Gohan training again but after reading the manga looks like he's still one and done.


Edit: Surely this line was a sub error right? No way it's real.

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flintstryker said:
Another thing I noticed about this ep is that it seems like at the slightest scratch people are using senzu beans these days
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It is getting to the point where these guys (Krillin, Tien, and Roshi) should be going the way of Cell Jrs from singular punches, so senzus are needed.
 
Saying Piccolo is supposed to be stronger than SSJ1 is a meaningless reference point because SSJ forms aren't at fixed power levels.

It's kinda hard to determine where Piccolo is in relation to everyone else because the last time we really see him in a fight is back during the Cell Games, where he fares okay against the Cell Jrs but still not as well as Vegeta or Trunks.
 
Errybody's a jobber in this episode.

I'm sure Freizas jobbing will be saved for next episode and Piccolo and Gohan will be fine as always.

That sappy "sad" music that played each time Goku fake-died to Beerus is pretty much confirmation that nothing bad will happen at this point :/
 
MrRemyJe said:
As said above, Gohan and Piccolo. Maybe I missed a line being said somewhere but they both had inconsistent power levels.

I understand how some of you are trying to equate Gohan's lowered power level to someone not working out in a gym or not training for a sport and becoming worse at either.

However, was this ever confirmed with power levels? I would assume if you reached a certain echelon of Saiyan power that it works differently than working out, that you can tap back into it regardless of how long you haven't been training. It hasn't even been that long of a gap of time from Gohan facing Buu to Gohan facing revived Frieza's thug, for Gohan to go from 'bodybuilder' status to 'can't lift 100lbs' status. At least for Yamcha it makes sense, he just about completely quit after the Cell saga. Also, I would assume Piccolo would still have been training for that 7 years and even the time beyond Majin Buu. Did he simply reach a power cap?
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Frieza returns 5 years after Buu.

What do you mean "certain echelon of power"? We already knew since the Buu saga that you can get a lot weaker after not training, this isn't the 1st time this has happened to Gohan. If you're talking about Super Saiyan levels then we've already seen a similar kind of thing with Goku, his dead body being more reslient allowed him to use SSJ3 easier, when he was alive he could barely keep up the form before it drained him. Training and the state of your body matters when it comes to using super saiyan transformations. If Goku had stopped training like Gohan he probably wouldn't have been able to use SSJ3 for more than a few seconds if at all with how much that form drains you.

Really it's technically been 12 years since Gohan stopped training in earnest(bar the brief period before the tournament and the 1 day of Z-sword training), the Mystic powerup didn't do anything to his body, it took 5 more years for him to finally reach beanstalk status.
 
Nintendoga said:
Edit: Surely this line was a sub error right? No way it's real.

tsyjXPoh.jpg
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He literally says he can't draw out his full power due to lack of training right before that.

I do hope they will start taking him more seriously in future arcs once the predetermined stuff is out of the way.
 
VanquishUK said:
So I think I finally understand what Mystic or Ultimate Gohan is after all this time. It's just the maximum amount of power his body can sustain? Is that right? Obviously that would increase if he trained.
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I agree with this.

If you think back to the Namek Saga, Gohan also had a 'potential' unlock upgrade back then too and while his strength increased it wasn't some game-changing upgrade. I think in both cases only a certain amount of potential can be realised and that amount is based on the strength of Gohan or whoever at the time. I think Elder Kai could of went further with Gohan's potential but the body wouldn't of been able to handle it - similar to the after effects of Kaioken. If the power-level is raised too far beyond what the body has trained/suited for, there will be strain.

Basically, if Gohan had kept training after beating Cell... when he got his Mystic Upgrade [assuming he didn't just beat Fat Buu already] he would of been so much stronger because his body would of been massively stronger. This fits in with Vegeta's comment of Gohan having the most dormant potential of all of them - clearly Mystic Gohan in the Buu Saga isn't his peak.
 
Nintendoga said:
Edit: Surely this line was a sub error right? No way it's real.

tsyjXPoh.jpg
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The original line is worded differently, but pretty much the same. "The problem is this brings my current body to its limits." The scene is meant to show that going SSJ is extremely hard for Gohan at this point.

StaticJam said:
Might just be because he got fucked up pretty good before hand?
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That was answering Ginyu's question about why he hadn't transformed from the start. So, I don't think it has anything to do with his battle wounds.

I don't see why this line is that odd though. They wanted Gohan going SSJ again, but wanted some excuse about why he wasn't using it since the Buu Saga power up, now we got it.
 
The Silver said:
Frieza returns 5 years after Buu.

What do you mean "certain echelon of power"? We already knew since the Buu saga that you can get a lot weaker after not training, this isn't the 1st time this has happened to Gohan. If you're talking about Super Saiyan levels then we've already seen a similar kind of thing with Goku, his dead body being more reslient allowed him to use SSJ3 easier, when he was alive he could barely keep up the form before it drained him. Training and the state of your body matters when it comes to using super saiyan transformations. If Goku had stopped training like Gohan he probably wouldn't have been able to use SSJ3 for more than a few seconds if at all with how much that form drains you.

Really it's technically been 12 years since Gohan stopped training in earnest(bar the brief period before the tournament and the 1 day of Z-sword training), the Mystic powerup didn't do anything to his body, it took 5 more years for him to finally reach beanstalk status.
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The fuck? Are Goten and Trunks drinking from the fountain of youth?
 
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