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[Woorloog]

Seriously, though, lightsabers are underpowered AF. They don't even cut as well as a dull regular sword, otherwise Kylo would be dead as can be.

I think actually cutting things with a lightsaber requires a bit more than just a light touch.
And the swings Rey used were kind of weak, like when Luke struck Vader in ESB. Not much more strength needed, but a bit more.

Plus Kylo's robe could be some kind armor weave, perhaps lightly lightsaber resistant.

EDIT Igniting a sword next to something is a different thing, of course.

 

[Moff]

I think Ben overthrowing Snoke in a later movie is absolutely on the table. It was an early idea for this movie, even.

By overthrow I don't mean "throw over a railing" like a good guy would, I mean "fucking murder the bossman to become an even worse bossman" like a bad guy would.

you mean like murdering him in his sleep

again

 

[TAJ]

I think actually cutting things with a lightsaber requires a bit more than just a light touch.
And the swings Rey used were kind of weak, like when Luke struck Vader in ESB.

Plus Kylo's robe could be some kind armor weave, perhaps lightly lightsaber resistant.

His face got hit first and was closer. If it went through bodies like a hot knife through butter then it would have killed him before it even touched his outfit.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

you mean like murdering him in his sleep

again

 

[Tricky I Shadow]

It's stretched out for a little longer than it feels like it should be (and I like to think this is mostly because of the musical score) but it's a relatively effective moment since Luke pretty much looms in the background of the story as soon as the first sentence of the opening crawl. It becomes blatantly clear that the movie just isn't going to possibly fit in Luke in any significant capacity but after over 30 years of not having seen him in any cinematic capacity... there he is. The movie's premise was rooted in finding him, and at the end of it they manage that. What follows is clearly going to be a pretty huge deal.

Ah, so the movie builds it up a lot from the very start. Good to know!

 

[ryan299]

Campea and Harloff admit they were "dead wrong" about the Plageuis art:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKbFWAJTcGQ

It's about 13 minutes in.

Good on them for owning up to it.

 

[Vampirolol]

I don't care about "plot holes" in fantasy/adventure movies, but the Starkiller was a little... I mean where did they get the money to build something this huge and instantly destroy the Republic. Yes, probably corruption or something but still...

Loved Kylo Ren. Holy shit. DAT fanboy butthurt.

 

[TAJ]

That concept art I was sold on barely looks like him, either. Much closer, yeah, but whoever said he looks like Voldemort wins first place.

 

[Robiin]

The biggest laugh in the theater when I saw it was the lighter thumbs up by BB-8. I liked him from the start, but that made me love him as a new robot sidekick.

The more I think about the movie the more I like it. Especially after reading some of your guys' thoughts making me remember more and noticing little things. I went home a little sad because my first reaction was kind of middling.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Yo, Campea didn't just throw himself on his sword, he headbutted the motherfucker and slid down the blade like Ninja Scroll. Propers to him.

Harloff half-assed his mea culpa, though.

 

[Woorloog]

I don't care about "plot holes" in fantasy/adventure movies, but the Starkiller was a little... I mean where did they get the money to build something this huge and instantly destroy the Republic. Yes, probably corruption or something but still...

Loved Kylo Ren. Holy shit. DAT fanboy butthurt.

We don't know how large territory the First Order rules. If it is sufficiently large and perhaps rich in resources, they could have a very strong economy.
Plus at least old EU had von-neumann machines, used for construction of the Death Star 2 at least, i figure the new canon could have such as well. Those would reduce construction costs quite a bit.
(OTOH, big can be produced quickly in SW universe at times, like the Death Star 2. Why DS1 took 19 years is a mystery that's based up Lucas' stupid idea of stuffing the Death Star into EP3.)
And finally, i think construction the weapon has a long time, perhaps a couple of decades. And perhaps it didn't have mobility, ie it had only a couple of shots due to using up the Star's energy.


As for its destruction, i think it is simple.
Plot-wise, it filled its function of destabilizing or destroying the Republic, and having it around would mean the First Order has a ridiculously strong advantage... Requiring perhaps deus ex machinas to save the Resistance and Republic remnants, the good guys.

 

[Vampirolol]

Oh almost forgot: the WORST thing was Z the Ant, that cg lady that looked like a prequel homage. A pub full of interesting looking characters and we have to listen to the most boring and predictable oracle they could have thought?

I loved Kylo Ren btw, did I already say that? Oh and Poe. And Finn. And Rey. Can't believe how good the chemistry between characters was!


@Woorlog: thanks! That's intetesting.

 

[greatgeek]

Ep 8 Speculation:
-Rey/Luke and Kylo/Snoke parallel light/dark side training arcs (Snoke supposedly comments on Kylos's training being unfinished?); duel at the end, of course
-Finn, Poe, and the new girl are our POVs into the FO v Resistance arc, which revolves around Del Toro Thrawn

 

[storafötter]

I feel much the same way.

Thought the first 45-50 minutes of the movie were perfection, but after that it's a real mixed bag.

Glad I am not the only one.

Another thing is a lot of the things didnt make sense in the movie like the 15-20 minutes charge for the beam and all the stuff that happened. Would it hurt for them to say half an hour or an hour. Also the forced love aspect between the new jedi girl and previous stormtrooper.

I have a real problem with a lot of you and this complaint. After TPM we all shouted this does not feel like a Star Wars movie, it lost all the charm and what made it Star Wars. We now get one that tries to give you those feeling you had with a new hope, and everyone is complaining about it?

If there was 0 ties to the past would you all be complaining that they didn't give any nods to the past?

I don't understand what you guys wanted.We all wanted to be taken back to the place in our heart that made us feel like we

Honestly I had nothing against the fact that the prequels tried something new. The problem was more with horrible, confusing political but boring stories with such bland characters. I wish we got some badass Darth Maul guy in this sequel but I guess cant have everything. Being a lot older than I was when I first saw Star Wars I would rather see new things than following too safe to previous formulas. I dont mind a few nods back (they were frequent) but so cliche and predictable. Looses my interest at this age. Then again I am hard to please and these films are not exacly amazing piece of cinema upon rewatching.

From what I understood, the mask was there because Kylo Ren wanted to be like Darth Vader, like it is his fetish. He didn't need to wear it, he just thought it was cool. i also don't think it was there to conceal his identity, so he has no qualms about taking it off.

That is a good theory. I kinda feel like when Han told him to take it off was kinda like a push for him to continue to show his face. Since he realized he can never be Darth. I felt that his point of "change" came more from willingly killing his father to get closer to his darker side :O! Nowww he doesnt have to hiide his identity by pretending to be someone else!.

Honestly its really cringeworthy when I think about it but oh well. It is okay I just not too crazy about the actors performance and looks. He looked to me like a generic Disney character casting. I guess he can get better in the sequel.

 

[Kaneda Shotaro]

So does Finn end up going with Rey in the Falcon to Luke or no?

And when is the first mention of Kylo's lineage? When Snoke mentions Han being his dad or when Kylo is talking to the Vader helmet?

You know what else is funny? After all the months of leaks and all the people that have worked on the film, not one spoiler said it was CONFIRMED who Kylo's parents are, just hints and theories that led to it. What I mean is, it's openly spoken about in 4 scenes but all these months we didn't know that it was such an "open" story element.

 

[NotLiquid]

BB-8 is perfect as a "team mascot" kind of sidekick partially because unlike R2 he's not anchored by an awkward foil.

 

[Jarmel]

I think Ben overthrowing Snoke in a later movie is absolutely on the table. It was an early idea for this movie, even.

By overthrow I don't mean "throw over a railing" like a good guy would, I mean "fucking murder the bossman to become an even worse bossman" like a bad guy would.

Would be a nice twist.

 

[Woorloog]

The biggest laugh in the theater when I saw it was the lighter thumbs up by BB-8. I liked him from the start, but that made me love him as a new robot sidekick.

Wasn't there a moment's hesitation from BB before he actually used the torch? Like he was wondering "I know the gesture but how the fuck am i going to acknowledge it? Let's see my database, what reminds a thumbs up... Oh. Well."

 

[Akihidas]

I'm thinking Kylo is gonna be the 'Skywalker' of this generation since he's blood relation to Anakin. I agree with whomever said Rey being hinted at as the daughter of Luke is just a red herring.

I'd love to see a switching in sides somewhere down the line whereby Kylo turns to the light and known as Ben and Rey perhaps gets lost to the dark side.

 

[munchie64]

Glad I am not the only one.

Another thing is a lot of the things didnt make sense in the movie like the 15-20 minutes charge for the beam and all the stuff that happened. Would it hurt for them to say half an hour or an hour. Also the forced love aspect between the new jedi girl and previous stormtrooper.

I thought the love story was handled quite well actually. It was funny and helped us conect with Fin. Could be the best romance in the series depending on where they go with it.

 

[TAJ]

Was that trailer thing that made it seem clear that Rey didn't believe Jedi existed what we thought it was, or was it an editing trick?

 

[munchie64]

Biggest Laughs for me were BB8's thumbs up, C3PO's intro and the Stormtroopers walking away from Kylo's shit fit.

 

[lastplayed]

Was that trailer thing that made it seem clear that Rey didn't believe Jedi existed what we thought it was, or was it an editing trick?

Yeah, she thought it was all a tale. She even thought Han was a myth.

 

[pringles]

The biggest laugh in the theater when I saw it was the lighter thumbs up by BB-8. I liked him from the start, but that made me love him as a new robot sidekick.

BB-8 was just the best. Stole the show.

. Also the forced love aspect between the new jedi girl and previous stormtrooper.

What forced love? Their chemistry was off the hook from the first moment they meet and they leave on a note where she calls him 'friend'. Thought it felt natural and avoided major clichées.

 

[Woorloog]

I thought the love story was handled quite well actually. It was funny and helped us conect with Fin. Could be the best romance in the series depending on where they go with it.

I don't think it was even a romance really. Han and Leia were the romance of the film.

I think Finn probably wasn't really sure how his devotion could be read. I mean, he's been raised for one thing, i don't think he is socially quite... normal.
He is fast thinker, quick to adapt for sure.

His concern for Rey felt more like devotion and willingness to sacrifice himself for her. Rey had saved her (as Poe had, in a way but wasn't around) so he would be utterly loyal to her.

It is like his lessons in the First Order worked... just not toward the First Order but other humans!

EDIT That said, i expect they will develop a romance. Seems like a natural fit.

 

[antonz]

Just have to say the Han/Kylo scene works so well the way there are two viewpoints at play with the words being spoken. You have emotional father Han interpreting what's being said in the way a father trying to redeem his son would. Meanwhile Kylo the entire time is really talking about his struggle to live upto Snokes expectations to deal with Han as that conflict rages

 

[Blue Ninja]

Just got back. I fucking loved it. It goes a bit too far with the 'A New Hope'-homage sometimes, but damn if it wasn't an enjoyable ride from start to finish.

First off, so many cool visuals in the film. The cinematography was beautiful. I watched it in 3D, there was one moment where I felt like I could reach out and literally boop a Star Destroyer on the nose.

Characters were great too. The oldies were all there, obviously, and I saw Han's fate coming from the moment they revealed who Kylo Ren was. Did not expect that twist, though, so that was pretty nice. Luke only being in for

Finn was great. So very likeable. Not very believable that he's been trained since birth to be a stormtrooper, but once you get past that he's a really cool character. Gonna be interesting to see what role he grows into.

Rey was very intriguing as a character, once she started realizing her potential it was really cool to see her boss those Stormtroopers around.

I was most surprised by Kylo Ren. At first he seemed like he was just a Darth Vader copy, but then it's revealed he's just a kid who wants to be like his grandfather. Driver really brings home the conflict in him, too.

BB-8 is fucking adorable. That lighter thumbs-up nearly had me in tears.

My main gripe? The First Order? Where did these guys come from? In the 30 years since the Rebellion won a decisive victory against the Empire and established a new Republic, these guys somehow snooped in, forged an army of Space Nazis by abducting kids, built a goddamn planet capable of absorbing stars and destroying planets half a galaxy away.

Snoke felt like a typical dime-a-dozen villain, and it just feels like he came out of fucking nowhere. His first appearance was really cool, but once it became clear it was a hologram he lost a lot of his cool-factor. Guy's probably frail and tiny. He just looks so ancient and evil that I want to find out where he came from, because he looks like he predates Palpatine by a thousand years.

That said, though, this was a fantastic experience and a movie that I can't wait to watch again. It takes the prequels and tosses them down a deep chasm. Much of my judgment is probably still clouded by the post-Star Wars bliss, but I have a feeling it'll easily be regarded a lot higher than those three.

 

[we.are.the.armada]

I'm sorry if this was revealed but did we get to know why Solo's son turned to the dark side?

maybe he fell in love like anakin did

also, rey is totally a skywalker, iirc they chose two actors based upon how they look very much like skywalkers - some dude that looks like luke (was this guy in the film btw?) and rey who looks like schmee/amidala

 

[Woorloog]

My main gripe? The First Order? Where did these guys come from? In the 30 years since the Rebellion won a decisive victory against the Empire and established a new Republic, these guys somehow snooped in, forged an army of Space Nazis by abducting kids, built a goddamn planet capable of absorbing stars and destroying planets half a galaxy away.

A very major victory. Not a decisive one exactly. The Empire got defeated eventually after the Battle of Endor BUT it wasn't destroyed. The New Republic got kind of sick of war and apparently let the remnants reform into the First Order.

I believe JJ Abrams stated that the Nazis who escaped to Argentina etc. were an inspiration. "What if the leaders didn't just vanish but resurrected their former empire?" Or something like that.

 

[WadeitOut]

maybe he fell in love like anakin did

also, rey is totally a skywalker, iirc they chose two actors based upon how they look very much like skywalkers - some dude that looks like luke (was this guy in the film btw?) and rey who looks like schmee/amidala

This is completely false. The casting call for both Rey and Finn specified there was no ethnicity/race requirement.

 

[storafötter]

Biggest Laughs for me were BB8's thumbs up, C3PO's intro and the Stormtroopers walking away from Kylo's shit fit.

Yeah I genuinely laughed too at those parts. The film manage to be goofy and entertaining a lot of times.

 

[antonz]

Just got back. I fucking loved it. It goes a bit too far with the 'A New Hope'-homage sometimes, but damn if it wasn't an enjoyable ride from start to finish.

First off, so many cool visuals in the film. The cinematography was beautiful. I watched it in 3D, there was one moment where I felt like I could reach out and literally boop a Star Destroyer on the nose.

Characters were great too. The oldies were all there, obviously, and I saw Han's fate coming from the moment they revealed who Kylo Ren was. Did not expect that twist, though, so that was pretty nice. Luke only being in for

Finn was great. So very likeable. Not very believable that he's been trained since birth to be a stormtrooper, but once you get past that he's a really cool character. Gonna be interesting to see what role he grows into.

Rey was very intriguing as a character, once she started realizing her potential it was really cool to see her boss those Stormtroopers around.

I was most surprised by Kylo Ren. At first he seemed like he was just a Darth Vader copy, but then it's revealed he's just a kid who wants to be like his grandfather. Driver really brings home the conflict in him, too.

BB-8 is fucking adorable. That lighter thumbs-up nearly had me in tears.

My main gripe? The First Order? Where did these guys come from? In the 30 years since the Rebellion won a decisive victory against the Empire and established a new Republic, these guys somehow snooped in, forged an army of Space Nazis by abducting kids, built a goddamn planet capable of absorbing stars and destroying planets half a galaxy away.

Snoke felt like a typical dime-a-dozen villain, and it just feels like he came out of fucking nowhere. His first appearance was really cool, but once it became clear it was a hologram he lost a lot of his cool-factor. Guy's probably frail and tiny. He just looks so ancient and evil that I want to find out where he came from, because he looks like he predates Palpatine by a thousand years.

That said, though, this was a fantastic experience and a movie that I can't wait to watch again. It takes the prequels and tosses them down a deep chasm. Much of my judgment is probably still clouded by the post-Star Wars bliss, but I have a feeling it'll easily be regarded a lot higher than those three.

Key elements of the Empire when it comes time to surrender to the Rebellion/Republic say to hell with that and flee to the Unknown Regions where Palpatine and the Empire had been doing stuff prior. So they basically reestablish themselves as a Hidden Empire.

Seems Mon Mothma really wanted to return to the old ways of the republic fully where systems were in control of their own defenses and there was no true republic Military.

 

[munchie64]

I don't think it was even a romance really. Han and Leia were the romance of the film.

I think Finn probably wasn't really sure how his devotion could be read. I mean, he's been raised for one thing, i don't think he is socially quite... normal.
He is fast thinker, quick to adapt for sure.

His concern for Rey felt more like devotion and willingness to sacrifice himself for her. Rey had saved her (as Poe had, in a way but wasn't around) so he would be utterly loyal to her.

It is like his lessons in the First Order worked... just not toward the First Order but other humans!

EDIT That said, i expect they will develop a romance. Seems like a natural fit.

You're right. Just wasn't sure how else to describe it.

"You got a boyfriend? A cute boyfriend"

 

[TAJ]

Nice to hear the 3D is decent but I'm seeing it in 2D and saving the 3D version for home. My personal 3D setup owns the shit out of the 3D in theaters around here.

 

[Blue Ninja]

A very major victory. Not a decisive one exactly. The Empire got defeated eventually after the Battle of Endor BUT it wasn't destroyed. The New Republic got kind of sick of war and apparently let the remnants reform into the First Order.

I believe JJ Abrams stated that the Nazis who escaped to Argentina etc. were an inspiration. "What if the leaders didn't just vanish but resurrected their former empire?" Or something like that.

Key elements of the Empire when it comes time to surrender to the Rebellion/Republic say to hell with that and flee to the Unknown Regions where Palpatine and the Empire had been doing stuff prior. So they basically reestablish themselves as a Hidden Empire.

Seems Mon Mothma really wanted to return to the old ways of the republic fully where systems were in control of their own defenses and there was no true republic Military.

Hmm, interesting. I hope we get some good EU stuff to flesh that out further in the interim between EP 7 and 8 now.

Snoke's my biggest 'huh', though. I'm really interested to see where he came from, and why he has such a silly name. If they can sell me on that, I'll probably start liking the character more.

 

[Woorloog]

You're right. Just wasn't sure how else to describe it.

"You got a boyfriend? A cute boyfriend"

Forget what i said about Finn not being socially normal. Or he is really, really fast at adapting. Or the life in the First Order isn't that special, just military trappings but otherwise not that unlike normal life.

I mean, otherwise i have hard time imagining a Stormtrooper semi-randomly asking that.

Thinking about this, Rey was probably more confused about the question, having lived a scavenger life alone for so long.

Hmm, interesting. I hope we get some good EU stuff to flesh that out further in the interim between EP 7 and 8 now.

Snoke's my biggest 'huh', though. I'm really interested to see where he came from, and why he has such a silly name. If they can sell me on that, I'll probably start liking the character more.

There's the Aftermath trilogy in the works (one book released) that details what happened right after the ROTJ. Personally i didn't bother with it, i can't stand fiction written in present tense.
The time between the two trilogies is kind of empty at the moment though. I reckon they focus on the films first and then fill in the gaps, or start filling in the gaps as things are established.


As for Snoke... i thought i'd keep the name funny and odd. But ultimately, it somehow fits and works. Unlike Sheev.

 

[komplanen]

Ep. VIII having a jedi vs sith training montage like Rocky IV would be amazing. Ren trains with logs and rocks, Bent rains with supplements and high tech 1st Order gear.

 

[NotLiquid]

I fully expect Episode VIII to go into more of The First Order's specific ideals. Hell it most likely will even try to rationalize whatever they're trying to do to some extents.

 

[Woorloog]

Ep. VIII having a jedi vs sith training montage like Rocky IV would be amazing. Ren trains with logs and rocks, Bent rains with supplements and high tech 1st Order gear.

I noted to my brother once that if the Star Wars trilogy had been moved five years later or so, the Empire Strikes Back would've had 80's training montage for Luke's Jedi training...

 

[mandiller]

If the New republic was established, why is there a Resistance?

 

[Tookay]

If the New republic was established, why is there a Resistance?

Because the New Republic doesn't have a standing military and/or doesn't want to fight, so Leia leads a Resistance to fight the First Order.

 

[Woorloog]

If the New republic was established, why is there a Resistance?

Read above and few pages back. It's been discussed.

Basically the New Republic didn't bother with military so Leia was like: "i'll start my own".

 

[antonz]

If the New republic was established, why is there a Resistance?

Apparently the Republic sees itself as able to live in peaceful coexistence with an Empire splinter group. Some elements disagree about that.

The Republic before Palpatines emergency powers etc. left system defense to the systems themselves. Which seems to be what Mon Mothma etc. reinstituted as she ended the Emergency Power changes to the Chancellorship.

 

[NotLiquid]

If the New republic was established, why is there a Resistance?

Might be wrong here but the thing about The New Republic seemed to be they wanted no part in the conflict hence why The Resistance fends against The First Order by themselves. They get wiped.

 

[WadeitOut]

If the New republic was established, why is there a Resistance?

This has been answered so many times now.

 

[we.are.the.armada]

This is completely false. The casting call for both Rey and Finn specified there was no ethnicity/race requirement.

good to know, regardless they have rey and that robert boulter dude because they look like skywalkers

 

[Tookay]

This has been answered so many times now.

Cool down. We have lots of people entering this thread for the first time who have avoided the spoilers we've absorbed for the last year.

 

[Woorloog]

This has been answered so many times now.

You know, that people keep asking it, makes me think it should have been explained in the film.

With the original Star Wars, things were simple. An evil empire, good rebels. It is simple setting, quickly established.

But for those who have watched the original Star Wars films, TFA doesn't have such clarity. The evil empire was defeated in the ROTJ, wasn't it? So who are these wannabe empire guys?

A film can leave questions but they should not be about the background. That's the wrong direction.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

Quick question, do any of the X-wing pilots(besides Poe) get any decent screentime or survive.
or are they all just throwaways?

 

[phazedplasma]

I feel like 8 will be about Luke and Rey tracking down Kylo and showing him how Vader turned to the light in the end.