[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens - It's True. All of it.

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Razgriz-Specter said:
Thinking more about it. Yup New Republic getting one-shotted just about ruins the movie for me as well as episode 8 and 9.

One of the stupidest things I have ever seen in a movie.


On the other hand fuck R2, BB8 is the best droid of the series.
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It was Abrams way of saying the prequels are dead, forget they exist. Love that we never have to see about those characters ever again. Think about it, Jar Jar was there.
 
SporeCrawler said:
I liked the prequels to be honest in particular revenge of the jedi (ewan mcgregor as obiwan for example). people give it way too much undeserved shit.
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The issue with the prequels were never the actors.

If you give a great actor a mediocre script and have him talk against a green wall, the end result simply suffers.
 
MGrant said:
I liked some of the camera work (in the opening 30 minutes or so the editing and cinematography are spot-on), but I did think the shots were a bit close overall in the middle and at the end. I wanted a few more contemplative, painterly shots like those that were influenced by George Lucas's love of Kurosawa and Westerns. Would have preferred it if the last shot with Luke and Rey had been a wide, static shot, instead of a helicopter flyaround. Found myself really missing shots like these:
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100% agree. Jakku was way better than the rest, and the final fight was really lacking in terms of cinematography I thought. Man, the first part of that Luke/Vader duel on Bespin, so damn good. Also, that real snow > fake snow.
 
Shuggananas said:
A light saber is just a sword, finn used it too
She's good at piloting shit like anakin was
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It's been said many many times before, a lightsabre is not just a sword.
The fact that the blade has no weight (and hence generates no momentum to use, a major factor in swordfighting) and can cut through almost anything instantly makes it far different from any other sword. This is the entire reason only force users are capable of handling the lightsabre effectively as the force sort of tells them where the lightsabre is as they can "feel" it which is also what helps them accurately deflect shots from blasters.

On a side note, this would also mean that lightsabre battles should have little to no weight to them which is why whenever people praise that the lightsabre battle in this movie had "weight" it doesn't make much sense to me. The prequels did one thing very right despite the acrobatics, i.e. they made the lightsabres appear lightweight like they are.
 
Wow, it's certainly remarkable how jaded people are these days.

I thought the movie was phenomenal and so did everyone I went with (about 15 people).

I love Rey. She's a very likable protagonist in my opinion. She's skilled with her staff and it'll be interesting to learn how she was trained with it (if by survival or formally).

Finn is an alright character. He brings a lot of the humor but his personality is kind of everywhere. Is he brave or is he not? Is he funny or is he serious? Can he fight or his he weak? I still like him though because his character has room to grow (lol at sanitations).

Poe is an awesome character. It's great to have a main character who kicks ass in an X-wing and makes you care about what's going on in the air.

BB-8 is the truth. Enough said.

Kylo Ren is the exact opposite of what I expected him to be and I'm okay with that. People are complaining that he's a cry baby who throws too many tantrums but it's great to see an antagonist at this stage of his character progression. Obviously there's a reason he acted like that, and his confrontation with Han has probably remedied that. I think he's going to become a very different character later on.

Phasma wasn't very impressive in this movie, that I will agree with. Let's hope she redeems herself later on.

Starkiller LOL.

All in all, I loved the movie.
 
Fliesen said:
The issue with the prequels were never the actors.

If you give a great actor a mediocre script and have him talk against a green wall, the end result simply suffers.
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i actually think that the whole story regarding anakins turn from light to dark (involving sidious, obi wan) was really great and the grander story about sidious being behind both the separatists and the senate really was one of the best plot of any movie in the 2000s. I really liked it how they kind of portrait palpatine as a benevolent politician in episode 1, someone who is not a great threat and how he progressively empowered himself step by step through episode 2 and was finally seen as a real threat by the jedi when it was way too late. the love subplot between padme and anakin was kind of weak though.
Occam said:
You liked them so much you even forgot the name of the one you supposedly enjoyed most. :P
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lol....:P.
 
Rey is the best female protagonist we've had in years.

Katniss was great but she was ruined in Mockingjay.
Tris was even worse.

The fact that she's such an anti-princess - her clothes being beige and brown, rather "un-feminine" covering most of her physical appearance.

compared to this:
9122ed4f569f6d10b34dfff4feeb3c5b.jpg
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Also, BB8 is fantastic. It's amazing how simply giving a droid the ability to also TILT its head gives it so much more emotional range.
 
OricWindstar said:
Totally agree. Put that sinking feeling in my stomach, just knowing what was probably about to happen.
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I loved how that was shot. As the last bit of light was being drained from the sun and it turned completely dark, so did Kylo... Huh, it just hit me -
"The light drained from the SON" - As to symbolize Kylo's complete devotion to the Dark side, right before killing Han.
Beautiful and tragic.
 
Fliesen said:
Rey is the best female protagonist we've had in years.

Katniss was great but she was ruined in Mockingjay.
Tris was even worse.

The fact that she's such an anti-princess - her clothes being beige and brown, rather "un-feminine" covering most of her physical appearance.

compared to this:


Also, BB8 is fantastic. It's amazing how simply giving a droid the ability to also TILT its head gives it so much more emotional range.
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She basically felt like Lady Luke though, and I don't know if that really gives her much identity.
 
SporeCrawler said:
i actually think that the whole story regarding anakins turn from light to dark (involving sidious, obi wan) was really great and the grander story about sidious being behind both the separatists and the senate really was one of the best plot of any movie in the 2000s. I really liked it how they kind of portrait palpatine as a benevolent politician in episode 1, someone who is not a great threat and how he progressively empowered himself step by step through episode 2 and was finally seen as a real threat by the jedi when it was way too late. the love subplot between padme and anakin was kind of weak though.

lol....:P.
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Oh my. I think the prequels failed hard at portraying Anakin and his supposed transformation. He is basically tricked into becoming evil. WTF?
There are too many lulz-worthy parts in the prequels (dialogues and cinematography aside) to list them now, so I wont.
Ok, just one. Right after giving birth to twins in a world of medical wonder, Padme dies "because she was sad".
 
Just saw it. Liked it. Definitely better than the prequels.

Still a lot of "wait what" about ten minutes after I left the theatre, but whatever
 
nOoblet16 said:
It's been said many many times before, a lightsabre is not just a sword.
The fact that the blade has no weight (and hence generates no momentum to use, a major factor in swordfighting) and can cut through almost anything instantly makes it far different from any other sword. This is the entire reason only force users are capable of handling the lightsabre effectively as the force sort of tells them where the lightsabre is as they can "feel" it which is also what helps them accurately deflect shots from blasters.

On a side note, this would also mean that lightsabre battles should have little to no weight to them which is why whenever people praise that the lightsabre battle in this movie had "weight" it doesn't make much sense to me. The prequels did one thing very right despite the acrobatics, i.e. they made the lightsabres appear lightweight like they are.
Click to expand...

When two sabres collide it's one's strength versus the other's
There has to be weight in light sabre battles
 
Hyrule Warrior said:
She basically felt like Lady Luke though, and I don't know if that really gives her much identity.
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Felt nothing like look to me.

Luke was a whiney little boy in ANH and Rey is quite the opposite. She seems a lot more mature and knows what she wants.
Plus, Rey had to make it on her own. She's been strengthened by survival.
 
giancarlo123x said:
I hope Rey eventually ends up using a Saber similar to mauls. Suits her better like the staff.
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i just hope finn also becomes a jedi. he looks so badass with that saber.
Occam said:
Oh my. I think the prequels failed hard at portraying Anakin and his supposed transformation. He is basically tricked into becoming evil. WTF?
There are too many lulz-worthy parts in the prequels (dialogues and cinematography aside) to list them now, so I wont.
Ok, just one. Right after giving birth to twins in a world of medical wonder, Padme dies "because she was sad".
Click to expand...

I think Anakin basically was consumed by the power he got. He completely abandoned control and let the rage guide him. When he battled Obiwan it was not important for him that obi wan was trying to kill palpatine. in my opinion anakin wanted to beat his former master who he thought was the most powerful jedi aside of him.

Thats the kind of thing they really did depict well. First he was just a boy with a lot of fear (understandibly) later he developed into a short tempered albeit incredibly powerful jedi (which people often thought is whiney). its those suttle things that made his transform believable to me.
 
Fliesen said:
Rey is the best female protagonist we've had in years.

Katniss was great but she was ruined in Mockingjay.
Tris was even worse.

The fact that she's such an anti-princess - her clothes being beige and brown, rather "un-feminine" covering most of her physical appearance.

compared to this:


Also, BB8 is fantastic. It's amazing how simply giving a droid the ability to also TILT its head gives it so much more emotional range.
Click to expand...

eh i dunno about that. just this year alone we had furiosa and the lady from mission impossible.

liked her quite a bit though but i don't think she can step up to those two. maybe by the end of the trilogy.
 
Having just seen the film I found it quite entertaining. It leans much more heavily on A New Hope than I was expecting, right down to bringing in all the old characters. The irony is the new characters are, for the most part, more interesting than the old characters in this film which makes going through the motions of seeing them again kind of a bore.

Star Wars has always been about the circular nature of mythology and so having a similar story isn't an issue, but when plot points and entire sequences are beat to beat with the original it doesn't seem very imaginative. Its also interesting how hurried the storytelling feels compared to the original, which says something about the nature of film editing today. JJ leans on rapid fire editing and breakneck pacing - the film just doesn't have the quieter, more subtle moments the original did.

The plot has issues like every JJ Abrams reboot and you do get the sense they keep things moving quickly to prevent you from thinking about things too much. The final battle sequence is a little absurd considering what we know about these characters. Rey and Ben have more of a rivalry than the master - student relationship of Vader and Luke. Thats clever storytelling, but it also means the main Villain just isn't threatening in this film, since hes essentially posing as Darth Vader and not doing it very well.
 
iShouldGoPro said:
Felt nothing like look to me.

Luke was a whiney little boy in ANH and Rey is quite the opposite. She seems a lot more mature and knows what she wants.
Plus, Rey had to make it on her own. She's been strengthened by survival.
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Luke just seemed whiny because of the way he was portrayed in those opening scenes. He felt obligated and was brought up to respect his Uncle it seemed, but he still knew his shit. Rey was similar in that, even though she took care of herself mostly, she still felt bound and obligated by staying on Jakku waiting for someone, because she felt it was her place to do so. Just like Luke felt it was his place to help his Uncle.
 
FeD.nL said:
Yeah loved it as well! Didn't see someone mention it on GAF yet.
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It was talked about before; thing is with time zones, you'll notice threads repeat themselves.

I paid special attention in my second viewing after someone mentioned it; definitely Obi-Wan saying "Rey" as she snaps out of the vision.

I do wonder if they've left it open deliberatel; she could be a Skywalker or a Kenobi. In fact, they left a lot open, probably to allow 8 to go where it needs to go, and doesn't have too much already locked down.

Rey and Luie could have spent years together on the island, or they returned to the Resistance straight away.

Finn could have woken up straight away, and has risen within the ranks of the resistance. Alternatively, he may still be recovering in 8.

The Republic could have either been wiped out, OR Starkiller just took out the closest system and was then targeting more, as well as the Resistance base.

They weren't kidding when they said Johnson had a lot of freedom.
 
One thing that blows my mind is that both Rey and Finn (well, their actors) are my age. Pretty amazing that they're the main stars of goddamn Star Wars movies.

It makes me both happy and sad. :lol
 
Vanillalite said:
I actually thought it was very unlike the old movies. To an extent that it was almost it's own thing even if a couple of the story beats were similarish.

It didn't really feel like IV-VI or I-III.

Maybe I'm cray though.
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I feel the same way, but that's how a I've felt any new Star Wars movie feels (well since the prequels, as I was born after Jedi came out). It's not until the next movie comes out that I've fully accepted that the last feels like a Star Wars film.

I can look at the OT too, through my now adult eyes, and see that each of those films feel distinct from each other. When people say it feels like the OT, I'm not sure quite what that means. It's a personal thing though and it's really hard to define.

And this is not a bad thing by the way.
 
Tookay said:
I thought it was an enjoyable movie, but not a particularly great one. I feel like it was far clunkier than some of Abrams' past efforts and Kasdan seemed to have an uneven touch.

Generally, the plot is okay. I like the ideas in it, even if they were well-worn. Creed showed that you can repeat story structures and still make an effective, moving film.

But the execution is really off in places. I feel like I can nail it down to several factors:

1) Characters: In general, I liked most of them. Finn was fun and likable, Kylo was interesting, etc. I appreciated the humor throughout.

But, more fundamentally, I think the character backgrounds and motivations were revealed at strange times or in too perfunctory of a manner. Revealing Kylo's heritage in an off-hand way and revealing his face before meeting Han felt like miscues that would have been better timed elsewhere. Other aspects like Han and Leia's interactions felt good, but were marred by strange dialogue (like the constant referencing of "Snoke" by his name, when the Emperor was never referred to in that way). Other newly introduced characters like Maz and Phasma felt completely pointless (largely because they were intended to be utilized differently).

And there is a slight issue with Rey. It feels like the storytellers withheld vital information about her character (because there's clearly something more about her past and her knowledge of the Force), and that kept me from truly connecting with her. I think that was a bad move from a character empathy standpoint.

2) Direction: Other things, like JJ's direction and cinematography drove me nuts. Oftentimes, you're thrown into scenes without even a simple establishing shot to geographically lay out the space the characters are interacting in. Sometimes we're being thrown into battles and there is no spatial awareness of the physical distance between those firing at each other or what they're aiming at. It generally makes the laser shooting and aerial combat sort of boring (particularly Poe's raid on Starkiller), because we don't know who's gaining the upperhand, what the goal is, or what the stakes are. I'd argue the only effective action scenes in the movie are the Falcon chase and the lightsaber fights at the end because they have maintain spatial awareness throughout.

(Also on the cinematography note, the constant usage of close-ups made some scenes look cheap and felt like a waste of the real-world locations they filmed at. Why go to film on-location, if you're going to film the location out-of-focus behind giant talking heads?)

(3) There are narrative issues from a conceptual standpoint (without going into the obvious stuff, like the Starkiller). I think the whole "Luke is missing" angle just doesn't work. We're not given a good reason for it, nor is there any urgency to the mission to find him, especially when the characters are sidetracked by other things throughout the film. Simply put, we don't understand why all of the sudden Luke is needed right this second, given that the good guys seem to be blowing through hundreds of stormtroopers and besting dark siders without him. It doesn't help when the whole "mystery" of the movie is solved because R2 just randomly decides to "wake up" at the end and present the portion of the map where Luke is hiding.

Additionally: they blew it in terms of the lack of exposition. I appreciate leaving some things vague and allowing the audience to fill in the gaps, but there was nothing to chew on. We know about as much about Snoke, the First Order, the Knights of Ren, the Resistance, and the New Republic at the film's conclusion as we did in its introduction. That isn't effective world-building; it's declining to world-build. Maybe the prequels went too far with exposition, but explaining the basic state of the universe in a seven film series isn't asking too much, especially thirty years after the last chronological film.

4) Editing: This movie is missing a good 20 minutes and it shows. Characters come and go without you even getting a chance to say goodbye (Maz, Phasma). We go to places sometimes without even setting that place up (I'm thinking of the first reveal of Starkiller Base in particular). Other moments have no chance to breathe (like Maz's scenes), but others go on awkwardly long (like Rey and Kylo's interrogation scene, where it's just boring shots of people grimacing at each other for a minute). Some of the "visual jokes" are also mistimed or improperly conveyed, like Han's hyperdrive into the Starkiller panet, which should be a "funny" and "exciting" moment, but just comes off whatever.

5) John Williams: He didn't put in his best work here. I'm struggling to think of a single new motif that I found memorable. Arguably, his weak score hurt the movie's emotional beats and intended "hell yeah" moments more than anything else I listed above.
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Good write-up. Dialogue is better (nothing especially great), but overall the plotting is just as clunky as the prequels to be honest. They just never cracked a solid script.
 
really wish the soundtrack throughout the movie was as good as it was during the final scene. that was the best of williams' original music in this film (and the only piece i remember)

been going back to that track quite a bit already.
 
Rey pretty much subverted every trope which caused my wife, who didn't care enough about Star Wars to like or dislike it before to love the new movie and want to watch the OT.


Also, do we really know if the entire New Republic was wiped out? I thought that was just where the New Republic fleet was docked. Shouldn't the capital be Coruscant and the most important worlds be the core worlds like Corellia?
 
So we know what the Starkiller base destroyed first? Was that Coruscant or something?
I thought that was just a star system, not THE center-of-Republic system...
 
I have to admit, I was pleasantly surprised how much I liked all of the new characters and their interaction. Makes me optimistic about the next movies.

Hyrule Warrior said:
She basically felt like Lady Luke though, and I don't know if that really gives her much identity.
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I thought they did a good job about it, actually. Where Luke wanted to see the galaxy, she wants to stay on Jakku, desperate for her family to return, for those that left or abandoned her to come back. She refuses an offer to work with Han and when presented with the truth, that no one is going to come for her, she runs away. She's reminiscent of Luke, but different.

I thought there were quite a few moments that really helped distinguish her. When offered the option to sell BB-8 for what I assume is quite a bit she briefly considers it, then decides against it. When told that Finn is a thief, she charges straight at him. We see in her small cabin how desperate she is for whoever left her there, marking each day.
 
Mikeside said:
I really hope she's a Kenobi.

Then we can have a Kenobi save a Skywalker like Obi Wan couldn't
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It would be cool, Obi Wan having a child between ROTS and ANH, and then this child having Rey
But Rey seems pretty fucking strong when it comes to force and piloting, also the saber calling to her.. I feel more like she's gonna be Skywalker
 
Lach said:
I loved it. Didn't notice many real plot holes. Most can be explained by the audience not knowing everything which is totally ok.

The movie felt a bit too packed though. Felt more like two movies cut into one. Never really got a chance to breathe.

I really really liked Kylo.
Oh and Billie Lourd actually had a line! <3

[edit] I don't know why but I absolutely loved the line about Kylo being seduced by the light side....
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Upon further reflection I agree with this. The first act was well-paced, but once Han showed up it never stopped.
 
SG-17 said:
Also, do we really know if the entire New Republic was wiped out? I thought that was just where the New Republic fleet was docked. Shouldn't the capital be Coruscant and the most important worlds be the core worlds like Corellia?
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I don't think that was Coruscant or Corellia. Didn't look like it from space plus there were those other planets or moons or whatever in that system. I think it was a demonstration like Alderaan was.
 
Can't read through the whole thread right now, but... is there a consensus on why this shot, which appeared in the final trailer, did not make it into the movie?

ForceAwakens1.gif
 
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