[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens - It's True. All of it.

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JigglesBunny said:
Guy is toasted. Plus, he isn't a Jedi, he doesn't have the force in him, so I wouldn't expect his ghostly visage in Episode VIII either.
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I doubt it too, but I could see Han being really pissed about getting ghostjacked though. Like Bob Newhart. "Why am I still here? Can't you people leave me alone?"
 
On Star Wars News they had one of the creators of Snoke quoted as saying he is around 7 foot tall if I recall
 
ANuclearError said:
I can see Snoke being small rather than large.

I hope with Snoke we see someone who is "screw lightsabers", and is purely a force user. That's something I think has been missing from the films.
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Serkis said he's about Chewbacca size, seven foot. So very big but probably with non-human proportions.
 
Fliesen said:
what? wasn't it her own line when she watched 'her parents' take off from Jakoo?
like 'no, come back!" or something?
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I honestly don't remember the lines, I will pay attention when I watch it the second time.
I just remember sad children so when I think about it now my guess is it was the younglings. but again, don't remember the lines.
 
Fliesen said:
Noone is a carbon copy of anyone, really. Poe is far too nice to be Leia. He's a much more positive person. Imagine Leia piloting the TIE fighter - she wouldn't have been as nice towards Finn, serving some sarcastic quips :P
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Yeah, of course. I don't think they seem identical, nor should they. But if we're talking about their archetypical positions in the trio: Rey is Luke, Finn is Han, and Poe is Leia.

Finn is the one who is only in this to save his own skin -- until he suddenly realizes he's not. Poe is an influential member of the rebellion right from the start.

I mean, if we're going to point out how they don't perfectly align with the originals -- not that they SHOULD, to be clear -- then the most obvious one is that Rey is already more interesting than Luke.
 
Ok, Rey may be a Skywalker or she may not, but either way it felt wrong to have a Star Wars movie without a acknowledging a "Skywalker" in it (and I don't mean just at the end). I'm sure GL had always said that Star Wars was about the Skywalkers.

Also, Luke not being in it felt totally out of character for him. Consider ESB, he had a premonition about Leia and Han and went to their rescue; are you telling me that he had no premonitions about Han, or that he did and decided to do nothing about it (the way Yoda and Obi-Wan always wanted) ?

Leia didn't seem really cut up about Han's death either. Fair enough I didn't expect her to run around like a headless chicken, but still...
 
There are some interesting implications if Plagueis is indeed involved. If he created the Skywalker bloodline as some kind of poison or as a tool against the Jedi--it would have huge implications.

Its possible as well that he found a way to become a force ghost, and has taken all this time to manifest himself physically.

Absolute nonsense random speculation of course.
 
Not Spaceghost said:
I would have liked it if the first time he removes his mask to rey, we had only seen the back of his head and then he slips it back on, with the first time we actually see his full face is during the scene with han solo.
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but why? it's not like we would have known his face.
There's nothing special about his face that would have made it a big reveal. If they had hyped up the guy and given us a dramatic unmasking, everyone would be like. "yo. cool, it's a human dude. who dat?"

also, uhm ... we all knew how Adam Driver looks

doing a dramatic reveal is only cool if we:
*don't know who's behind the mask (Vader, in a sense, Scooby Doo, mostly.)
or
*don't know how the person behind the mask changed compared to when we've last seen them (Luke)
 
timewyrm said:
Ok, Rey may be a Skywalker or she may not, but either way it felt wrong to have a Star Wars movie without a acknowledging a "Skywalker" in it (and I don't mean just at the end). I'm sure GL had always said that Star Wars was about the Skywalkers.

Also, Luke not being in it felt totally out of character for him. Consider ESB, he had a premonition about Leia and Han and went to their rescue; are you telling me that he had no premonitions about Han, or that he did and decided to do nothing about it (the way Yoda and Obi-Wan always wanted) ?

Leia didn't seem really cut up about Han's death either. Fair enough I didn't expect her to run around like a headless chicken, but still...
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Kylo Ren is a Skywalker though...
 
LegendofLex said:
- I think we got a lot more insight into Kylo's fall than most people realize at first glance. I think Finn and Rey are supposed to be obvious foils to Kylo, and Anakin's fall a prototype for Kylo's fall.

Anakin has a great destiny thrust upon him by the Jedi, who believe him to be the Chosen One and are trying to train him to achieve their expected outcome of the prophecy. Though he eagerly accepts Jedi training, we see that his priorities do not necessarily align with the Jedi: he wants to come back to free his mother (and earlier he expresses the expectation that Qui-Gon would free all the slaves). Once Anakin decides his alignment with the Jedi constrains his own personal agenda - both his desire to save the people he loves and his belief that justice can brought to the galaxy by "someone wise" who will enforce peace - he turns on them.

Likewise, Kylo is conscripted into Luke's Jedi school, also presumably not by choice, and probably not with a clear agreement on the agenda that underlies his training (to keep him on the path of good, which would naturally be against his impulses if Han & Leia were worried there was too much of Vader in him). This makes him very susceptible to being seduced by outside influences that purport to give him greater agency: like Snoke. Since he has no real control over the direction his life is going based on the circumstances of his training, he's able to be persuaded to turn against his teacher, as well as the far-from-perfect family that sent him there, to take control of his own destiny.

Finn goes through a similar character arc, but in the opposite direction. He's conscripted into the First Order from birth, and eventually comes to realize that what he's fighting for isn't right. He makes the choice to leave - the first time he's ever able to exercise a real sense of self. He is symbolically named by Poe at the same time to show that he is no longer just a number, but a complete human being.

And Rey faces the exact opposite circumstances that Kylo does. She isn't forced into Jedi training; she's left to her own devices and makes a conscious decision on her own to take up the lightsaber and let the Force guide her. Thus, she's put in a position of total agency about her affiliation with the Force. In the end, her journey to Luke represents her acceptance of the Force and the path of the Jedi - a path that she chose for herself.
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Great post.
 
JigglesBunny said:
I know people like to cry out and say "but-but, Han must be alive!"

He took a saber to the guts.
Then fell at least like, a couple hundred feet.
Then everything blew the fuck up.

This wasn't some Glen from The Walking Dead scenario where it was shot ambiguously to give you a suggestion that maybe he made it out.

Guy is toasted. Plus, he isn't a Jedi, he doesn't have the force in him, so I wouldn't expect his ghostly visage in Episode VIII either.
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Thanks for TWD spoiler asshole.
 
Einchy said:
I'm wondering if he really is that size, too. At first I felt a bit iffy about it but it grew on me, it made him feel like an ancient evil. Something that was unlike anything else in the Galaxy.
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I'm pretty sure they have said Snoke is roughly 7 feet tall. The size of the hologram was just for effect.
 
brucewaynegretzky said:
Gonna call it now: I think Kylo joins the resistance before episode IX and his conflict plays a major role in IX while the rest of the gang distrusts his loyalty.
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I could see Kylo getting cast aside at some point and being a anti-hero that helps the heroes in some way.

I don't think anyone will ever fully trust him though.
 
Ganzlinger said:
Why Harrison Ford wanted Han dead? Wasn't following the news.
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He originally thought Han should die in ROTJ as he thought Han's story was complete and it would be a strong ending for him. He was unhappy with how Han just sort of hung around during the movie instead.

At his age I doubt he wants to do three blockbusters like this, so he got to do the swansong he wanted to do back then in this film.
 
Ganzlinger said:
Why Harrison Ford wanted Han dead? Wasn't following the news.
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This is OLD news, Harrison Ford wanted Han Solo dead after ANH and wanted him to die in Empire. He then really wanted Lucas to kill him in ROTJ but he refused. Basically, Ford was done with Star Wars after it broke him out and he could do other stuff.
 
JigglesBunny said:
I know people like to cry out and say "but-but, Han must be alive!"

He took a saber to the guts.
Then fell at least like, a couple hundred feet.
Then everything blew the fuck up.

This wasn't some Glen from The Walking Dead scenario where it was shot ambiguously to give you a suggestion that maybe he made it out.

Guy is toasted. Plus, he isn't a Jedi, he doesn't have the force in him, so I wouldn't expect his ghostly visage in Episode VIII either.
Click to expand...
Really? This is the Star Wars spoiler thread, you had to bring in spoilers from Walking Dead?
 
Croatoan said:
Thanks for TWD spoiler asshole.
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I don't think that actually spoiled The Walking Dead for you at all. Not the way it was worded.

Also, even IF Han managed to somehow, McClane style, grab a ledge on the 300th floor of that shaft - the entire planet TURNED INTO A SUN 10 minutes later.
 
Fliesen said:
but why? it's not like we would have known his face.
There's nothing special about his face that would have made it a big reveal. If they had hyped up the guy and given us a dramatic unmasking, everyone would be like. "yo. cool, it's a human dude. who dat?"

also, uhm ... we all knew how Adam Driver looks

doing a dramatic reveal is only cool if we:
*don't know who's behind the mask (Vader, in a sense, Scooby Doo, mostly.)
or
*don't know how the person behind the mask changed compared to when we've last seen them (Luke)
Click to expand...
I had no clue who played Kylo Ren, and didn't think it was known. Obviously I didn't read up too much on the movie going into it. I was surprised to see the big bad was just some kid.

ALSO didn't know ahead of time that Han wanted to be killed off. So it was nice to go into that a little blind too, even though it was heavily foreshadowed and clear by the time it was about to happen.
 
Bd5NHZ1IcAA7-2y.jpg


Han's just a little airborne!
 
For a guy that was probably paid tons of money to reprise Han, Harrison didn't mail it in.

SW was never had Oscar caliber acting, but Ford came off very genuine.
 
Ganzlinger said:
Why Harrison Ford wanted Han dead? Wasn't following the news.
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http://www.thewrap.com/harrison-for...should-have-died-in-return-of-the-jedi-video/

In an interview on “Conan,” Ford discussed why he felt his now iconic space pirate should have died at the end of “Return of the Jedi.”

“I thought the best utility of the character would be for him to sacrifice himself to a high ideal,” Ford said. “And give a little bottom, a little gravitas to the enterprise. Not that there wasn’t some already, but I just wanted in on that part of it
Click to expand...
 
LegendofLex said:
I think we got a lot more insight into Kylo's fall than most people realize at first glance. I think Finn and Rey are supposed to be obvious foils to Kylo, and Anakin's fall a prototype for Kylo's fall.

Anakin has a great destiny thrust upon him by the Jedi, who believe him to be the Chosen One and are trying to train him to achieve their expected outcome of the prophecy. Though he eagerly accepts Jedi training, we see that his priorities do not necessarily align with the Jedi: he wants to come back to free his mother (and earlier he expresses the expectation that Qui-Gon would free all the slaves). Once Anakin decides his alignment with the Jedi constrains his own personal agenda - both his desire to save the people he loves and his belief that justice can brought to the galaxy by "someone wise" who will enforce peace - he turns on them.

Likewise, Kylo is conscripted into Luke's Jedi school, also presumably not by choice, and probably not with a clear agreement on the agenda that underlies his training (to keep him on the path of good, which would naturally be against his impulses if Han & Leia were worried there was too much of Vader in him). This makes him very susceptible to being seduced by outside influences that purport to give him greater agency: like Snoke. Since he has no real control over the direction his life is going based on the circumstances of his training, he's able to be persuaded to turn against his teacher, as well as the far-from-perfect family that sent him there, to take control of his own destiny.

Finn goes through a similar character arc, but in the opposite direction. He's conscripted into the First Order from birth, and eventually comes to realize that what he's fighting for isn't right. He makes the choice to leave - the first time he's ever able to exercise a real sense of self. He is symbolically named by Poe at the same time to show that he is no longer just a number, but a complete human being.

And Rey faces the exact opposite circumstances that Kylo does. She isn't forced into Jedi training; she's left to her own devices and makes a conscious decision on her own to take up the lightsaber and let the Force guide her. Thus, she's put in a position of total agency about her affiliation with the Force. In the end, her journey to Luke represents her acceptance of the Force and the path of the Jedi - a path that she chose for herself.
Click to expand...

This is good, makes sense and works well. Looking forward to Kylo getting his Darth on, I think he will grow into a terrifying villain in VIII and IX. Epic battles ahead.
 
emb said:
I had no clue who played Kylo Ren, and didn't think it was known. Obviously I didn't read up too much on the movie going into it. I was surprised to see the big bad was just some kid.
Click to expand...

He might have been the villain of this movie but he's not the big bad. Snoke is, and he's manipulating Ren for his own ends.
 
emb said:
I had no clue who played Kylo Ren, and didn't think it was known. Obviously I didn't read up too much on the movie going into it. I was surprised to see the big bad was just some kid.
Click to expand...

But he's not the big bad. The evil cloaked guy on a throne he was reporting to throughout the film was the big bad.
 
timewyrm said:
Also, Luke not being in it felt totally out of character for him. Consider ESB, he had a premonition about Leia and Han and went to their rescue; are you telling me that he had no premonitions about Han, or that he did and decided to do nothing about it (the way Yoda and Obi-Wan always wanted) ?
Click to expand...

This is 30 years later and we know very little about what happened to Luke. I don't know how you can judge this is "out-of-character" based on the infos we have.
 
Ganzlinger said:
Why Harrison Ford wanted Han dead? Wasn't following the news.
Click to expand...
He was never a guarantee for any movie. They didn't even plan on him coming back for TESB and in TESB they didn't know if he'd sign for Jedi so they froze him in carbonite.

He hated how shallow the character was. To this day he never liked Han.
 
timewyrm said:
Ok, Rey may be a Skywalker or she may not, but either way it felt wrong to have a Star Wars movie without a acknowledging a "Skywalker" in it (and I don't mean just at the end). I'm sure GL had always said that Star Wars was about the Skywalkers.

Also, Luke not being in it felt totally out of character for him. Consider ESB, he had a premonition about Leia and Han and went to their rescue; are you telling me that he had no premonitions about Han, or that he did and decided to do nothing about it (the way Yoda and Obi-Wan always wanted) ?

Leia didn't seem really cut up about Han's death either. Fair enough I didn't expect her to run around like a headless chicken, but still...
Click to expand...



Yeah, this really bugged me. For being one of the most legendary SW characters ever, the aftermath of his death felt very understated. IDK, just an extended shot of Leia grieving or something to really reinforce how sad this was would have made his death feel a little more real and final I think.
 
Anton Sugar said:
That's quite a statement to make, especially since TFA places so knowingly into our nostalgia.

It had a Jurassic World level of callbacks. Maybe even more.
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It's wildly better than the OT because it builds expertly on the established characters, not because of friggin callbacks.

The OT is brilliant. TFA is better because it takes what was established and updates and expands upon it.

It's also better because it completely redefines gender norms for an entire generation. It cannot be overstated how important this movie is, the impact it will have on how women and girls are perceived and perceive themselves for generations.
 
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