[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens - It's True. All of it.

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Sectorseven said:
Yeah, I guess. Although it would look pretty fucking bad if one of our general's spouses was smuggling contraband.
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Ex-spouse. Pretty heavily implied that Ben turning to the dark side caused a rift between Han and Leia.

He even tells Maz, in reference to Leia, "she doesn't want to hear anything from me" or something along those lines.

Then when they are reunited the awkwardness and them talking about what was different confirmed it all.

After they split, it makes sense that Han would revert back to his old ways if not for any other reason than comfort.
 
Nephtes said:
I really hope Rey is neither Ren's sister nor Luke's kid...

That's just lazy and too easy...
They can come up with something more shocking and better.
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Dude, this entire saga is about family. Top to bottom, end to end.

If Rey isn't Luke's daughter then that is a pointless twist with no value after all this build up. You don't have to be shocking for shocking's sake.
 
I dunno if I really care that much to stick around in the spoiler thread talking about plot points in the movie because most of it is so obvious in intent that there really isn't much analysis required, but I will say that I loved the characterization of Kylo Ren. It's the one clever thing in the entire movie which is otherwise just ANH for the current generation with more diversity and gender equality. Taking a Darth Vader stand in character and making him a try-hard young punk who WANTS to be a Darth Vader stand in instead worked great. The casting was amazing too. He reminded me so much of a young Snape from Harry Potter. He would have been a great Anakin in the PT.

I don't think him losing at the end was particularly weird either, because they did a good job of showing that he wasn't really a great Sith warrior like Vader was throughout the film. Every time anything went wrong, he would lose his cool and just rage out and everyone around him would be rolling their eyes. He has no real respect from the First Order, and they just tolerate him because of his force affinity and because he's Snorke's disciple. So it comes as no surprise that when push comes to shove and he has to actually fight another force user, he just chokes hard.
 
Blader said:
There were two moments in the film where it hit me, holy shit, this is episode VII.

The first was after the opening crawl finished and it dawned on me that this was the seventh one of these things I've read.

The second was Rey pulling the lightsaber to her and switching it on. I don't know if it's because I wasn't expecting something like that to happen so soon, or because it was watching Luke's daughter about to fight Han and Leia's son, but that was a "wow, Episode VII is real and is actually happening right now" kind of moment.
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This is what seems to be missing in so many responses here -- if Rey is Luke's daughter, the idea that the children of these great friends and family are literally trying to kill one another ... I mean, that's holy shit level drama, and everyone is like, "meh ..."
 
Good movie.

I was hoping that Finn or Rey would turn to the dark side and take Kylo's place. I thought that would be a cool approach to the film.

Also, Capt. Phasma said that Finn's mind was wiped right? If so, would it be possible that he's playing us and is attempting to infiltrate the Rebel Alliance? Basically like Quaid in Total Recall.

Also, Capt. Phasma was barely in the film. She looked so cool. I hope she didn't die in the trash compactor lol.

Finally, Finn is going to be a Jedi right? Kylo notices the disturbance at the beginning of the film.
 
Something I thought about last night was how, while Kylo Ren is the direct Darth Vader analog, Rey actually possesses the traits of Anakin Skywalker. She was quite adept at fixing things, a skill we know Anakin had from the prequels. And she was also a natural at flying, a skill that both Anakin and Luke shared.

These aren't the strongest facts supporting her lineage to Anakin and Luke, but they certainly hint at the connection.
 
kirblar said:
I just realized this through this discussion - the Stormtrooper creation process described in the film is a total parallel to the OG Jedi training methods.

Take a kid from their home. Indoctrinate them. Have an army of soldiers, some of whom turn out wrong.

This is where Rey comes in - in the span between the movies Luke likely goes back to the old school methods (Rey's been taken from home to train with him) and it falls apart yet again when Kylo goes bad. Rey has the memories supressed for her safety. (Rey is essentially Olivia from Fringe, actually.)

The lesson to Luke and the others: stop training the damn kids. Maybe they'll learn this time?
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This was my guess. Rey and Finn are two paths to a single thought.

Finn is taken from his family, trained to be a Stormtrooper. He loses his family and his name. He revolts and escapes, not wanting to be involved in the fight until he's forced to take up the lightsaber, ultimately being struck down.

Rey is taken from her family, trained to be a Jedi. She loses her family and when the greater Skywalker drama hits the Jedi Temple, she potentially loses her name. She revolts and escapes, not wanting to be involved in the fight until she's forced to take up the lightsaber, ultimately rising above her foe.

I honestly believe Finn will turn out force-sensitive, but his path to the same end will be far harder than Rey's.

Of course, this is Star Wars, so we might all be thinking too hard.
 
captainpat said:
What the hell man. "My apprentice turned evil and is slaughtering a ton of innocent people.....Welp, time to go on a self-imposed exile."
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TangoAlphaLima said:
It makes some amount of sense. Luke feels guilty. This wasn't just a pupil he lost to the dark side, but his own nephew. And obviously Luke would realize the parallel to his father. Luke is the last remaining Jedi, he doesn't have Obi-Wan or Yoda to guide him, he's got to do this on his own, and it's a great burden.
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Also if you look at it it's very similar to Obi-wan going on his exile after making Vader.
 
duckroll said:
Taking a Darth Vader stand in character and making him a try-hard young punk who WANTS to be a Darth Vader stand in instead worked great. The casting was amazing too. He reminded me so much of a young Snape from Harry Potter. He would have been a great Anakin in the PT.
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Yeah I really really liked that part
 
Par Score said:
Dude, this entire saga is about family. Top to bottom, end to end.

If Rey isn't Luke's daughter then that is a pointless twist with no value after all this build up. You don't have to be shocking for shocking's sake.
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It's about family but not every character has to be related to the Skywalkers. Han (other than by Marriage), Lando, Obi-Wan, etc weren't.
 
And lol at anyone who thinks JJ's Trek films are better than, or even remotely as good as, TFA.

It's clear Trek was the ugly chick JJ could bone before he got with the hot chick. He's never going back.
 
Nitpick, but they should have cut to credits on the second closeup of Rey offering the saber to Luke instead of going to the weird helicopter shot. It was the only shot in damn near the whole movie that didn't "feel" Star Warsy.
 
duckroll said:
I dunno if I really care that much to stick around in the spoiler thread talking about plot points in the movie because most of it is so obvious in intent that there really isn't much analysis required, but I will say that I loved the characterization of Kylo Ren. It's the one clever thing in the entire movie which is otherwise just ANH for the current generation with more diversity and gender equality. Taking a Darth Vader stand in character and making him a try-hard young punk who WANTS to be a Darth Vader stand in instead worked great. The casting was amazing too. He reminded me so much of a young Snape from Harry Potter. He would have been a great Anakin in the PT.

I don't think him losing at the end was particularly weird either, because they did a good job of showing that he wasn't really a great Sith warrior like Vader was throughout the film. Every time anything went wrong, he would lose his cool and just rage out and everyone around him would be rolling their eyes. He has no real respect from the First Order, and they just tolerate him because of his force affinity and because he's Snorke's disciple. So it comes as no surprise that when push comes to shove and he has to actually fight another force user, he just chokes hard.
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Kylo Ren does feel like the successful version of the kind of character Lucas tried and largely failed at with Anakin.

Count Dookkake said:
And lol at anyone who thinks JJ's Trek films are better than, or even remotely as good as, TFA.

It's clear Trek was the ugly chick JJ could bone before he got with the hot chick. He's never going back.
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I liked both of JJ's Trek films (and even liked Into Darkness more than the first), but this is definitely JJ's best work to date, by far.
 
Kaibutsu said:
Also if you look at it it's very similar to Obi-wan going on his exile after making Vader.
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An interesting point. But Obi-Wan did face off against Vader, and in fact thought he had defeated him. Plus, Obi-Wan's exile was seemingly more to protect and watch over Luke than it was to hide out of guilt.
 
Dreams-Visions said:
After listening to quite a bit of the soundtrack, I think I found the problem:

It wasn't mixed it to be loud enough in the film! Sometimes volume is what is needed as much as anything. There are a lot of solid tracks here.
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My imax screen was absolutely bombastic with the score. I said it earlier in the thread but it felt like sensory overload.
 
Count Dookkake said:
And lol at anyone who thinks JJ's Trek films are better than, or even remotely as good as, TFA.

It's clear Trek was the ugly chick JJ could bone before he got with the hot chick. He's never going back.
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Pretty much. He was exercising his game. His heart was in this one alright. Most complete movie he has ever made. And probably will make.
Unless he comes back for episode 9 (and they get rid of Trevorrow), he's probably never going to make a sci-fi film this good.
 
Randdalf said:
That's always been the case with Star Wars though. I watched A New Hope the other day, after spending quite a while listening to the soundtrack and a lot of the tracks are very quiet in the background. One in particular that stuck out was the Jawa's theme, which you can barely hear during the film.
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Think so? By contrast, I find the score for the final battle in ANH to be quite strong and present.

NealMcCauley said:
My imax screen was absolutely bombastic with the score. I said it earlier in the thread but it felt like sensory overload.
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Damn I should have seen it at your theater. Mine could have turned it up about 10 decibels.

-Plasma Reus- said:
Pretty much. He was exercising his game. His heart was in this one alright. Most complete movie he has ever made. And probably will make.
Unless he comes back for episode 9 (and they get rid of Trevorrow), he's probably never going to make a sci-fi film this good.
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Agreed.
 
I hope we see Kylo grow from a punk kid in TFA into a real badass in later films the same way we saw Luke grow from a punk kid in ANH to a Jedi master in ROTJ.
 
duckroll said:
... I loved the characterization of Kylo Ren. It's the one clever thing in the entire movie which is otherwise just ANH for the current generation with more diversity and gender equality. Taking a Darth Vader stand in character and making him a try-hard young punk who WANTS to be a Darth Vader stand in instead worked great. The casting was amazing too. He reminded me so much of a young Snape from Harry Potter. He would have been a great Anakin in the PT.

I don't think him losing at the end was particularly weird either, because they did a good job of showing that he wasn't really a great Sith warrior like Vader was throughout the film. Every time anything went wrong, he would lose his cool and just rage out and everyone around him would be rolling their eyes. He has no real respect from the First Order, and they just tolerate him because of his force affinity and because he's Snorke's disciple. So it comes as no surprise that when push comes to shove and he has to actually fight another force user, he just chokes hard.
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/love

could not have said it better myself. he wants to be evil (dark side) because hey, that's how you get chicks.. err.. power... everything about him were tiny moments of fear/greatness/presence surrounded by a huge helping of insecurity and conflict.. or like you said, try-hard. With all of this being said, at his basis, there is ultimately that character.. power hungry, glory seeking, wanting to BE darth vader. Hopefully Johnson and Co. do something with that. I still say that killing Han sparked a change in the character.. while he was certainly no Sith Lord in the followup fight.. that blatant insecurity and conflict seemed to all but vanish.
 
"That Lightsaber. It belongs to me!"

"Come and get it."

I know that's totally cliche, but that exchange made me smile so big. I love how brave Finn is and how he dives headfirst into crazy plans without really knowing exactly what he's going to do next. I also love how much he cares for Rey... he gets pissed when Kylo hurts her, and more so when he calls him a traitor.

I REALLY loved this movie. Going for second viewing in 5 hours!
 
140.85 said:
Groaned? Not sure what they were expecting. What else would they do if they need to stop the weapon? Just wing it? Gotta find a weak point. Han even jokes about there usually being a way to blow these things up.
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Similar reaction in our theater. Over all, I enjoyed the movie. But it crossed the line of "homage/tribute" and went to full on direct copy mode of too many scenes / concepts from ANH. My biggest criticism is, well, I find its lack of originality disturbing.
;p

Also, something seemed off with the scale of the battle in Kanata or whatever the place was called. The TIE fighters and Xwings whizzing around seemed to small, lacked inertia, and for some reason created absolutely no wind with their high speed fly-bys in close proximity to people on the ground. It really stood out to me as a bizarre effect to miss.
 
Another knitpick is how quickly characters become bonded in some movies, such as this one.

"NOOOO! REEEEEEEEEEEEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I JUST MET YOU FIVE MINUTES AGO I CAN'T BARE TO LET THEM TAKE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!" etc

eot said:
The lightsaber force pull is just one overt reference to the OT in a movie riddled with them. Someone else was arguing she's a Kenobi because you what, she does a whole lot of stuff that Obi-Wan does in ANH, like mind trick a storm trooper. I don't think anyone is denying the possibility that she might be Luke's daughter, but that doesn't mean it's a given. If anything it's too obvious.
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Force persuasion is a commonly used tactic across the movies, EU, etc. It's not just an Obi Wan thing.

Pulling a lightsaber from the snow has so real significance WITHIN the movie, from the perspective of the characters. It's PURELY the film telling the audience something.
 
Sectorseven said:
Why does Han still have to be a smuggler? His (ex?)wife is a general for the resistance. Can't he run a legitimate shipping company?
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After Ben left, Han and Leia both said they "went back to what they loved." They both tried to escape into their past and relive their former selves, attempting to forget about and eliminate the pain about their lost son.
 
Ren will be a badass Sith Lord in IX, but Rey will succeed in redeeming him and they'll be the heroes of X through XII. With Ren a bit more front-and-center than Rey, even.
 
Cybit said:
I think they could have added one more fun moment of fan service in the Han / Kylo scene.

Han goes up to Kylo, they do their scene, and right as Kylo is about to stab Han, Han's expression changes (as he realizes what is about to happen), he pulls out his blaster and shoots Kylo in the gut first before then getting ran through and falling off the bridge. They already establish that Kylo's a super tough SOB (see; bowcaster shot he takes from Chewie, multiple lightsaber strikes) - would have been a fun "Han shot first" fanservice moment.
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Geez. Do you even understand why people hate the edit of Greedo shooting first? Because it was out of character for Han, he doesn't fight in defense but kills for convenience. Now with a much older mature Han, you are suggesting an edit that would again put Han out of character shooting his own son. We have come full circle.


El Topo said:
I just hope they don't pull some kind of "Snoke is actually a parasite living in that giant creature" shit. I don't even know why I would expect them to pull something like that, it's jus a thought in the back of my head.
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Snoke is not a giant FYI, that was a hologram in the film. My theater let out a huge sigh of relief.
 
You know. I think if my father is Han Solo, and if my parents named me Ben (sorry to all the Bens out there!), I would turn to the dark side too.
 
The movie was a bit too much like episode 4-5-6 for me. which they were probably going for.It really felt at times like a re-imagining of the original trilogy. Nothing surprised me, a bit disappointing. I was still entertained. 7/10 for me.
 
Frustrated_me said:
So what did Yoda and Obi-Wan say in Rey's flashback?
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LookAtMeGo said:
I wish I had a clip of that scene.
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Found it:

*Vader breathing*
*Scream* (Sounds a little bit like Leia)
Yoda: "An energy field (with echo)... It surrounds us and binds us."
*Luke screaming "no" from Empire is blended in with Yoda's last line*
Ben: "Remember (with echo)... The force will be with you, always."
*Scream* (Inuman - sounds like a Tusken Raider)
*Scream* (Female, unknown)
Young Rey: "Come back!"
Unkar Plutt: (Restraining Rey) "Quiet, girl."
*Scream* (Female, unkown)
Unknown male: "Rey?" (Does sound like Alec Guinness)
Unknown male: (Whispering) "These are your first steps."
 
Briarios said:
This is what seems to be missing in so many responses here -- if Rey is Luke's daughter, the idea that the children of these great friends and family are literally trying to kill one another ... I mean, that's holy shit level drama, and everyone is like, "meh ..."
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A fair number of people probably read the books and already experienced this epic family-style conflict once. Not saying the movie won't do it better, but if you're going to wipe the EU, I'd like it to actually head new places. She really doesn't need to be a Skywalker.
 
Count Dookkake said:
And lol at anyone who thinks JJ's Trek films are better than, or even remotely as good as, TFA.

It's clear Trek was the ugly chick JJ could bone before he got with the hot chick. He's never going back.
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I don't follow. JJ just failed at understanding Star Trek, or either franchise in general. So far, he's stuck to making references to older, better movies

09 was a brilliant reboot but Into Darkness was too much of the same.
 
duckroll said:
You know. I think if my father is Han Solo, and if my parents named me Ben (sorry to all the Bens out there!), I would turn to the dark side too.
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yes, it's why Annie eventually turned.

"Padme.. I just.. can't... stop "dreaming" of you.."

"Oh Annie, you little boy.. you're such a card Annie."
 
Count Dookkake said:
And lol at anyone who thinks JJ's Trek films are better than, or even remotely as good as, TFA.
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Look, I'm not big on using critics to settle a dispute like this, but come on, Count, they most certainly are of similar quality (Star Trek Into Darkness, excluded).

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_trek_11/

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_episode_vii_the_force_awakens/

They're practically identical! I love both franchises, but not equally, as I love Star Wars more. But my initial reaction is that Star Trek (2009) is just a little bit better than TFA. But again, it's really too early to make that call. I need to rewatch TFA a few more times and let it completely sink in.
 
Frustrated_me said:
Found it:

*Vader breathing*
*Scream* (Sounds a little bit like Leia)
Yoda: "An energy field (with echo)... It surrounds us and binds us."
*Luke screaming "no" from Empire is blended in with Yoda's last line*
Ben: "Remember (with echo)... The force will be with you, always."
*Scream* (Inuman - sounds like a Tusken Raider)
*Scream* (Female, unknown)
Young Rey: "Come back!"
Unkar Plutt: (Restraining Rey) "Quiet, girl."
*Scream* (Female, unkown)
Unknown male: "Rey?" (Does sound like Alec Guinness)
Unknown male: (Whispering) "These are your first steps."
Click to expand...
Hmmmm...
 
The only disconnect I felt was in the bar scene when Finn chooses to leave. Then everything is destroyed and all of a sudden Finn is back.

They didn't show anything about what went on with him after he left, and having him just magically appear again like nothing happened was really odd. His entire choice of leaving while at the bar could have easily been scrapped and nothing would have been lost from the film.
 
Jobbs said:
Another knitpick is how quickly characters become bonded in some movies, such as this one.

"NOOOO! REEEEEEEEEEEEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I JUST MET YOU FIVE MINUTES AGO I CAN'T BARE TO LET THEM TAKE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!" etc
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You're missing the forest for the trees, he wasn't bonded with Rey - it was literally the first time he could make the choice to do the right thing. And, he threw himself into it fully. That's his character. It wasn't about her or their relationship, it was about Finn getting to be Finn for the first time.
 
Why exactly did R2 come out of his low powered state to reveal the other part of the map later in the film? Why not activate when BB-8 tried to interact with him earlier?

Maybe I missed something.
 
So they completely reworked this scene then.

pwpocvv09bwpvjc1xuzx.gif


Shame as I really liked this sequence.
 
people are saying JJ "shit on" the PT.. what's this being based on?

3N16MA said:
Why exactly did R2 come out of his low powered state to reveal the other part of the map later in the film? Why not activate when BB-8 tried to interact with him earlier?

Maybe I missed something.
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The thought is because Rey was there. Whether she's Luke's daughter, Ben's twin, a padawan, or just a force sensitive person.. whatever the reason, that's why most believe he turned on.
 
I remember seeing the discussion bot not being able to read it before it got swallowed up by other conversations, so I'll ask again: do we know for sure that Luke is on the planet of the original Jedi temple?
 
3N16MA said:
Why exactly did R2 come out of his low powered state to reveal the other part of the map later in the film? Why not activate when BB-8 tried to interact with him earlier?

Maybe I missed something.
Click to expand...

The only reasons I can imagine is R2 was processing Luke's location in low powered mode. Otherwise it makes no sense.
 
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