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[MHWilliams]

The Episode III novel was really really good. Definitely underrated.

That was by Stover. He wrote far and away the best EU book ever in Traitor. So good.

I can't agree to be honest. I'm quite the opposite. I think it was one of the best shots of all time.

Han just died, his son is Kylo Ren, Leia a widow, Chewie a single and Rey just getting started.

Then Rey finds a Luke/Obi Wan/Yoda like savage in a distant ass off place with beautiful scenery and the helicopter goes spinning around them from a perfect angle for max dramatic impact?

Perfection.gif

Their talking about the helicopter-shot spinning camera pan at the end, not the entire scene.

My friend had a fun close reading after leaving the theater of when Poe first meets Finn in the Tie Fighter.

During the exchange when Poe asks Finn's name and all Finn can provide is his code-name, my friend read into it as though there was some sort of racist undertone there, where the black guy who has no apparent skill or real identity is given one by a white man who assigns him whatever name comes to mind, to which Finn passively accepts.

I can see that reading, but remember to let you friend know that Finn wasn't supposed to be black. Just the unfortunate implications because Lucasfilm cast a black actor.

 

[Par Score]

So who was the guy at the very beginning of the movie who gave the map piece to Poe? He knew Ren was Solo's son and I got the feeling he might've been someone from the OT but I didn't recognize him. Wedge, maybe?

Yeah, this bothered me too. It's almost like the film expects you to know him, or why he might have this absolutely crucial piece of info, but I have no idea who he is.

Snoke is Darth Plagueis, I bet

Oh shit, I dig that.

 

[Sephzilla]

My friend had a fun close reading after leaving the theater of when Poe first meets Finn in the Tie Fighter.

During the exchange when Poe asks Finn's name and all Finn can provide is his code-name, my friend read into it as though there was some sort of racist undertone there, where the black guy who has no apparent skill or real identity is given one by a white man who assigns him whatever name comes to mind, to which Finn passively accepts.

That's obviously looking too deeply into it

 

[Dabookerman]

So is there any confirmation on what happened to the Kanjiklub guys?

 

[Muppet345]

My friend had a fun close reading after leaving the theater of when Poe first meets Finn in the Tie Fighter.

During the exchange when Poe asks Finn's name and all Finn can provide is his code-name, my friend read into it as though there was some sort of racist undertone there, where the black guy who has no apparent skill or real identity is given one by a white man who assigns him whatever name comes to mind, to which Finn passively accepts.

Oscar Isaac isn't white, but yeah I thought about that too, briefly.

 

[ZeroMaverick]

I remembered that "boom", thank you!

Amazing tiny detail with so many implications

 

[A Link to the Past]

What if Mara Jade is in VIII

 

[MrPressStart]

1- Luke didn't really have to show up, I thought he wouldn't at all towards the end and they'd save it for the later half of Ep VIII. It's alright that he was there, no big deal either way.

2- Only two characters in this movie outright looked like CG, and they both look horrible. Lupita Nugyon's character looks like it's from Antz, absolutely didn't need to be CG. Should have just be a small person. Hopefully she's dead. Snookie looks ridiculous. Hopefully he's only a giant as a holographic projection and they decide to have someone with makeup in the next movies. Can't Andy Serkis just put on a costume? They basically already ruined what should be a character on par with the emperor, but he just looks like a bad CGed Voldermort. Both of these characters had no point in being CG at all, it just made them worst. Felt straight out of the prequels.



3- R2 turning on after everything happened felt a bit silly, I think they could have him turn on when BB8 first nudges him, because even with the map to Luke's location they would still have had to go and save Rey and Han would have still wanted to get an opportunity to save his son before they blow up the Death Star 3.0. Minor detail, but I don't get why they chose to do it this way, it just makes it feel a bit too forced like "oh we are running out of time let's wrap it up".

4- Finn and Co. stumbling on Captain Phasma on a planet-size spaceship was a bit silly. Don't see why they didn't just have her in the shield room with some other Storm Troopers, have them forced to surrender. I have a weird feeling she's written as a character that will never get killed, and will probably even join the resistance at some point.

My guess on how the story was going to unfold was Han finding out Ren is still alive after having lost him years earlier in battle and that he became a baddie (not Luke having trained him, rather the order having captured him because of his likely force sensitivity), Rey being Ren's sister, her and Han getting uncle Luke to help bring Ren back to the light side, and Luke killing Ren in front of Han instead of trying to save him and then leaving on his own, ending the movie on a darker tone. The next ones being about getting to the bottom of what's going on and Rey trying to catch up with Luke to reason with him. I thought they would have Luke try to suppress any remaining force users (and how it's futile because the force will always attempt to "awaken", "both the dark and the light"), believing only his family members remain as potential force users, but not being able to kill Leia/Rey because they're not evil yet, and this being in play in the next movies. Then he realizes it's pointless because the force will always be there and he passes on whatever to Rey.

So I surprised to actually see Han die and Luke not show up earlier

And yeah I hope Lando will return, would make sense any way.

I do think that R2 turning on was because at this point Luke wants to be found. I think that Hans death and kylo and Rey with the saber is saying she is searching him out like he did Vader.

 

[_woLf]

Man, it hurt seeing Han go. It was obvious it was coming from the setup but I will always maintain hope that he's somehow alive >_>

 

[Bog]

I bet in the next bluray release of ESB they're gonna edit Luke's lightsaber falling into Maz's outstretched hand.

 

[Angel_DvA]

I know some people will hate me but I'll do it:

Kylo Ren > Darth Vader.

 

[Sephzilla]

I know some people will hate me but I'll do it:

Kylo Ren > Darth Vader.

Darth Vader > Kylo Ren > Anakin Skywalker

 

[UCBooties]

No. It was Hosnian Prime, the current capital of the Republic. That was one of the defects of the movie, that it probably didn't explain enough what had happened with the Republic.

This is true and gets at some of what bothered me about the film.

On a character front and action front I really enjoyed the movie. I do have problems on the world-building front though. J.J. Abrams doesn't seem to get space, and that can make things weird when it comes to figuring out how scenes fit together.

Was the planet that Han, Chewie, Finn, and Rey were on in the same system as Hosnian Prime? It must have been if they could see the destruction from the surface. But there was a sun in that system and it was daylight when Starkiller base fired. Can Starkiller base move after it sucks up a sun to power itself? If so, how do Finn and the Resistance know where to find it?

It's similar to being able to see the destruction of Vulcan from a completely different planet that Spock was stranded on in the '09 Trek reboot, or the Enterprise falling from Lunar orbit into Earth's atmosphere in a matter of minutes in Into Darkness. It's shorthand that seems to try to simplify things for the audience but just means that the scenes don't actually make sense.

Also, Abrams seems to make the Galaxy a very small place, which is disappointing. The Republic, First Order, and Resistance all seem to have like, one planet each. I know that's not accurate butt it seems ridiculous when the Resistance throws everything they have into a last ditch assault on Starkiller Base and it's like, 1 squadron of x-wings. The Original Trilogy always made it seem like the Galaxy was huge and full or mystery and surprises, this movie made it seem like everyone and everything important were within five feet of each other.

I still enjoyed the movie and hope to see it again in theaters. I just hope that as other people take the helm from Abrams they will open the world out a bit and make it seem like a fuller, more believable place.

 

[ZeroMaverick]

Man, it hurt seeing Han go. It was obvious it was coming from the setup but I will always maintain hope that he's somehow alive >_>

Yeah, they spent soooo much time on Han, I kept wondering, when is this movie going to start? Why's all this smuggler stuff getting so much screen time? Then I slowly put it all together.

 

[Maintenance]

Darth Vader > Kylo Ren > Anakin Skywalker

You stole my comment.

Spoiler

Yes, I agree with what you said.

 

[Syf]

I know some people will hate me but I'll do it:

Kylo Ren > Darth Vader.

Has the potential to be, not there yet though. Let's see how he grows in the next two. I do find him more interesting so far.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Kylo Ren is a much more interesting villain than Darth Vader

Though to be fair, IV Vader is such a nothing villain compared to V Vader. Kylo starts out as a much better villain, and thus has three movies to be good instead of only two for Vader.

 

[LookAtMeGo]

I know some people will hate me but I'll do it:

Kylo Ren > Darth Vader.

Im digging his looks but he has a ways to go to reach Vaders level of badassdom.

 

[Briarios]

I hope they bring Phasma back for VIII, because her character did all of nothing this time around.

The actor's pre-release interviews pretty much were along the lines of: I do nothing in this movie, but there is big stuff I can't talk about in the next.

So, yes, she'll be back with a more significant role.

 

[DownGrader]

So is there any confirmation on what happened to the Kanjiklub guys?

Oh snap, we definitely need a new story line for Kanjiklub and whoever the other clan was. They disappeared as quickly and suddenly as they came.

 

[Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!]

Things I don't want in VIII and beyond:

- Phasma continuing to be a wuss. I was seriously shocked they managed to coerce her into deactivating the shields, and even more shocked she didn't end up getting into some kind of fight with them.

- Some BS where the First Order was actually fighting a bigger evil all along and everyone teams up. (How StarCraft II turned out and the WarCraft movie is ending up, plus some stuff from the old EU, makes me really nervous about this.)

- Another goddamn massive planet-destroying space station with a trench and/or vulnerable core of any kind.

- To only see X-Wings and TIEs in aerial and space battles.

- Unexpected "shock twist reveals." This movie had plenty of tension without relying on them, and that's probably the best thing it took away from IV.

I have it on good authority that ep 9 will be the First Order and the Resistance teaming up to fight the Yuuzahn Vong.

 

[Discotheque]

Just saw it. Not much to complain about. So im gonna complain about how disappointing the music was. Weakest score in the series by far. Now i wished michael giacchino would have been the composer.

considering how ehh the music in jurassic world was for the most part, no way.

it definitely was the weakest score in the series though. but still williams put in damn good work with that track that played during the final scene. have it on repeat now.

 

[Sephzilla]

I'd agree that Kylo is better than Episode 4 Vader (who isn't even the main villain of that movie). Kylo has nothing on Episode 5 or 6 Vader though.

 

[jett]

Thanks for this. People mentioned it before, but I wasn't able to recall it from the movie. It's been so long since I saw it I guess.

Follow up question on Plagueis: was that story about his healing powers purely a lie to manipulate Anakin, or some truth to it?

Didn't he say something about making people immortal? I figured it was a reference to force ghosts, so not a lie, but not entirely appropriate to what Anakin wanted.

 

[Einchy]

I know some people will hate me but I'll do it:

Kylo Ren > Darth Vader.

He was much more threatening and interesting than what Darth Vader was in A New Hope. I think Darth Vader really became "Darth Vader" as we now know him in Empire.

So, Kylo Ren > New Hope's Darth Vader.

 

[fugimax]

Watching folks in this thread complain about Han's downfall and a "beaten" Luke ... I don't get it.

Han had his time for many years with Leia. Luke started a Jedi Academy (maybe had a daughter?) But like all good things..

Your childhood heroes facing the reality of life and becoming re-entangled by a menace we thought was defeated is exciting. It gets you emotionally invested and it also speaks to the broader narrative.

Also, Luke is totally going to die. I hope you are all ready. Probably Leia too. Chewie may survive since he is a familiar face for continuity. (Or he'll die trying to protect Leia).

It needs to be the next generation that is left standing at the end of all of this.

 

[MrBadger]

I know some people will hate me but I'll do it:

Kylo Ren > Darth Vader.

That might be a little premature. Kylo Ren was good, but we don't know much about him yet.

 

[Musolf815]

Twist: Finn is Luke's son.

Think about it.

I had a dream a few weeks ago where I was watching the movie, and someone asked Finn what his last name was. It was Vader, so you'd think in my dream world that'd mean he's Luke's son. But nope, he then reveals that his real first name is Bruce, after his father, Batman.

 

[Not]

I'm gonna love telling everyone I know that "oscar isaac isn't white" for the next few years

I walked out of the movie realizing that it hit all the same story beats as ANH, from plans in a robot on a desert planet to the old mentor dying in a death star, but I realized Abrams and Kasdan must've done that on purpose for a reason. I'm sure they realize that, and I trust they know what they're doing.

 

[JeffZero]

Vong knockoffs are X-XII, and Snoke is their emissary. Believe the hype.

 

[Mr. RHC]

Their talking about the helicopter-shot spinning camera pan at the end, not the entire scene.

Indeed, I was trying to convey why the build up to that particular scene helped increase the pathos of it all an increase my enjoyment of it.

I need to see it again just for the helicopter shot alone.

 

[takriel]

Just saw it. Not much to complain about. So im gonna complain about how disappointing the music was. Weakest score in the series by far. Now i wished michael giacchino would have been the composer.

The Scavenger and Rey's Theme as well as the last track are good though.

 

[Makoto]

You're like the first person besides me that I've seen who thinks that Maz is great lol

I also thought Maz was fantastic. The one character in this movie that defied expectations for me.

 

[JTripper]

I know some people will hate me but I'll do it:

Kylo Ren > Darth Vader.

To me Vader was always more of a pop culture icon than a deep character.

In terms of characterization, Kylo Ren already has more going for him in this film alone.

 

[Anton Sugar]

- Phasma continuing to be a wuss. I was seriously shocked they managed to coerce her into deactivating the shields, and even more shocked she didn't end up getting into some kind of fight with them.

In hindsight, I'm sad we didn't actually get that initial "come to my office" encounter between Phasma and trooper Finn. Would have been a great opportunity to establish her character and the beginnings of a vendetta.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

Luke wouldn't have had a daughter since he was a jedi. Unless he wanted to break the rules of the Jedi Order. He started an academy and searched for the first temple so it's pretty clear he wouldn't have taken a spouse if so that would rewrite the PT.

 

[Jobbs]

I'm gonna love telling everyone I know that "oscar isaac isn't white" for the next few years

I walked out of the movie realizing that it hit all the same story beats as ANH, from plans in a robot on a desert planet to the old mentor dying in a death star, but I realized Abrams and Kasdan must've done that on purpose for a reason. I'm sure they realize that, and I trust they know what they're doing.

I think they went extra hard on trying to recapture the feel of the OT after how poorly regarded the PT was. Disney ain't fucking around. This was their big shot and it wasn't time to take any risks.

 

[CD'S BAR]

Don't know how you guys can like Kylo over OT Vader. What made Vader cool is he was all-in with being evil and almost zombie-like in his obedience. He wasn't a whiny kid. Same gripes with Kylo that I have with PT Anakin. I found his conflicted moments pretty cringey/melodramatic.

 

[OldRoutes]

I mean Phasma was supposed to be a dude and was a late change to female after complaints of too many guys in the movie.

Where did you read that?

 

[Hagi]

I can see that reading, but remember to let you friend know that Finn wasn't supposed to be black. Just the unfortunate implications because Lucasfilm cast a black actor.

What's actually interesting is that Poe was originally supposed to be black.

 

[antonz]

Didn't he say something about making people immortal? I figured it was a reference to force ghosts, so not a lie, but not entirely appropriate to what Anakin wanted.

That and once Palpatine had his hooks in Anakin for good he admits that Plagueis did not share the secret to the power with him and that Anakin and He would find the answer.

 

[Sephzilla]

Luke wouldn't have had a daughter since he was a jedi. Unless he wanted to break the rules of the Jedi Order. He started an academy and searched for the first temple so it's pretty clear he wouldn't have taken a spouse if so that would rewrite the PT.

Luke never knew the rules of the Jedi Order and he's pretty much the exact opposite of what an Old Republic era Jedi was (Luke's ability to love/care and his attachment to his friends/family is exactly what helped him fight off the dark side and turn Vader). There's no reason why he'd stick to the old ways of the Jedi.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Don't know how you guys can like Kylo over OT Vader. What made Vader cool is he was all-in with being evil and almost zombie-like in his obedience. He wasn't a whiny kid. Same gripes with Kylo that I have with PT Anakin.

What about Kylo is whiny?

 

[CronoShot]

Just got back from the movie. I really did enjoy it, but boy howdy is it ever a retread of IV.

- Rebellion Resistance gets valuable information
- Empire First Order attacks just as Rebellion Resistance gets the information
- Information is put onto a droid and sent onto a desert planet
- Main character finds the droid
- Main character escapes desert planet and the Empire First Order on the Millennium Falcon
- Significant portion of the movie is trying to get the information to the Rebellion Resistance
- Evil force wielding villain has a significant history with one of the main characters, an old man
- Said villain kills the old man
- Empire First Order has a giant weapon that can destroy planets
- Last fight of the movie involves trying to destroy said weapon

Again, I did enjoy the movie a lot. I loved the final confrontation between Rey and Kylo at the end.

When it was unique, I thought it was brilliant. Even when it wasn't it was still good. But I think JJ might have played this one a bit too safe. I'm really looking forward to what's coming next though.

 

[Angel_DvA]

What about Kylo is whiny?

Yeah I don't get it either...

 

[TM94]

I know some people will hate me but I'll do it:

Kylo Ren > Darth Vader.

Get the fuck outta here, I know you're riding the euphoria from seeing the film.

But seriously.

 

[Messypandas]

In hindsight, I'm sad we didn't actually get that initial "come to my office" encounter between Phasma and trooper Finn. Would have been a great opportunity to establish her character and the beginnings of a vendetta.

They so easily could have had that moment early on where Finn takes his helmet off have Phasma come into shot and shock the shit out of him with the baton stick for it. Then later on, at the Maz bombing she comes out and sees him. Boom, vendetta.

 

[Frustrated_me]

1. The pacing in the film was absolutely nuts, like in a really good way. Nothing felt bloated, every scene felt it had a real purpose. One example of the fast pacing (and clever directing) is when Finn and Rey are running away on Jakku trying to find a ship to fly off, and Rey say's something along the lines of "No, that ship is garbage" (you don't actually see the ship she's referring to). Then a second later when all of their ship options are destroyed they turn to the garbage ship and it's revealed to be the MF.

2. BB8 was everywhere in this film and they did a pretty damn good job with it. The design is great and works really well, I never had to question "but how will it do/go/jump there?".

3. Rey is such an amazing character, I loved the scene when she's eating and lying her back on a AT-AT, hard days work paying off. We're immediately shown how much of a survivor she really is, scavenging whatever she can get her hands on for food.

4. The flashback scene was bonkers. I loved how Yoda, Obi-Wan, Vader and Luke were all somehow connected with Rey through the lightsaber, as sudden as that connection was.

5. Kylo Ren is such an interesting character, I fully expect him to be fully fleshed bad guy for the next film. Like Vader levels bad. His will and ambitions to fully emerge himself into the dark side reminds me of a very young Anakin wanting to become a jedi. How ironic is that.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

Luke never knew the rules of the Jedi Order and he's pretty much the exact opposite of what an Old Republic era Jedi was (Luke's ability to love and care about his friends/family is exactly what helped him fight off the dark side and turn Vader). There's no reason why he'd stick to the old ways of the Jedi.

So he starts an academy and tries to find temples. :/

 

[watershed]

Just saw it. Not much to complain about. So im gonna complain about how disappointing the music was. Weakest score in the series by far. Now i wished michael giacchino would have been the composer.

Although I agree the score has some issues, I thought it still worked really well and I don't want anyone other than John Williams scoring Star Wars films, anthology films aside.