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[sirap]

It doesnt matter how good he think he is, he is someone who is trained by the force, and should be pretty strong, atleast the 3 most powerful force user in galaxy right now, it doesnt make sense for him to go down to people who have never use a saber before.

Being strong in the force doesn't mean shit. Even when the Jedi were at their height, all it took to wipe them out were a couple of clone troopers with blasters. Granted, they were taken off guard, but it should prove how even the strongest force users can die from a simple blaster to the back.

Remember, Anakin was considered the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy, and by the time he became Darth Vade, most of his body was replaced with machinery. That cut off a large amount of his potential, effectively weakening his access to the force. And yet Mr. Roboto still managed to hunt down and wipe out the remaining Jedi.

 

[injurai]

The lengths people are going to bill Kylo as some unbeatable elite jedi warrior vs. some helpless girl power Rey fumbling through her discovery of the force is ridiculous. First off, we don't know shit to the level of training he received from Luke before shit hit the fan. Second, his character was shown to have flaws and doubts well before the fight with Rey. Third, mother fucker was wounded from Chewey and Finn. But I guess since Finn is a dude, him striking hits is not a stretch? Rey clearly has crazy force potential, they god damn say it right in the movie. Kylo fears this before the even square off in a duel. Combine all of these things, and how is it not going to end up similar to what we saw? Luke is not the end all be all of Jedi's. Hell, he wasn't even born when the proper Jedi training was a thing.

Yup. They went out of there way to show just how powerful Chewie's blaster is. Finn also wore out Kylo first, while Kylo was already fumbling himself. Kylo is incredibly divided in his convictions of the force. Rey only knows one force, even if she is weaker in it. She was focused, and it was a moment of growth and self-belief for her. She was in the right place mentally, and had all the hand to hand experience she needed to feel confident.

 

[diaspora]

That's what I'm thinking. Ren calling Finn a traitor was for me the most emotional aspect of that final fight. He just screamed it at Finn despite Finn being a nobody. Not to mention that huge rage fit when he found out Finn helped BB8 escaped.

That really surprised me. I was expecting it to be a Rey/Ren rivalry due to the Skywalker blood stuff but I'm starting to
wonder if there'll be a Finn/Ren showdown instead.

Someone desperately trying to cling to the tenants of the First Order as an authoritative figure and someone as a grunt desperately trying to get away. Finn and Ren's animosity is probably one of the few interwsting things in the film.

Edit: people need to let go of Rey winning the fight. She won because of a story making her OP with force magic. It's hilariously dumb, but it is what it is.

 

[Mariolee]

Settle a debate for me GAF....

At the end against Kylo Ren, when Rey closes her eyes and taps into the force, when she comes out all raw against him, she was going a little bit darkside there, wasn't she? She knows a bit how to access the Force, clearly. But it doesn't mean she knows any of the dangers about how she channels it. She was going hard on Ren. I think they wanted to put her in a position where she thinks that's what she's supposed to do, and that will make Luke all the more hesitant about moving forward with her training.

I got that feeling too. The rage she felt was definitely visible and I was wondering if Kylo was going to comment on it and go, "Yes, feed into the Dark Side."

I LOVED that Kylo was stating that he was getting "seduced by the Light Side" since we're so used to hearing "seduced to the Dark Side". It's so fun to see the other perspective.

 

[Brawndo Addict]

The fight was not about who can swing a sword the best, it was about their internal motivations and struggles, their will. Rey finally decides to move forward in her life and leave 'Jakku' behind, meanwhile Ren's final commitment to the dark side by killing Han doesn't provide him the solace he was searching for, if anything it has made him even more conflicted and tormented. Ren is trying to convince himself as much as he is Rey when talking to her during the fight.

This is like complaining that Obi Wan didn't put up a better fight against Vader in the original, you're missing the larger point.

 

[RedRum]

1. Ewoks TV movie
2. Spaceballs
3. Holiday Special
4. TROOPS
5. Force Awakens 88 second trailer
6. Empire Strikes Back
7. Victory Celebration in ROTJ

 

[Chitown B]

He was also one of the main characters in Felicity.

yep that is included in "every JJ tv show"

 

[CrichtonKicks]

Yoda said that in Return of the Jedi - which takes place 4 years after Empire. That changes everything.

Jedi is 6 months after Empire. Not 4 years. And yeah Luke was obviously doing some kind of training (he was able to make a lightsaber after all) but in that six months he couldn't find the time to head back to the only living Jedi that he knew of so he obviously wasn't training *too* hard.

 

[Magwik]

Somebody's going to lose a hand.

Well I mean they both already lost a Han(d) ... I'll show myself out

 

[Frog-fu]

The movie makes it clear that Kylo Ren's relationship with the force is unstable...at best. Maybe he hasn't been neutered but his inability to defeat Rey is actually tied to this instability.

No, it doesn't.

The movie made it clear Ren has a bad temperament.

His Force abilities are some of the most impressive we've seen in the entire series.

This seems like an odd statement to make, honestly. WHY are lightsabers completely different from fighting with a staff when we're discussing fictional superpowered people in a universe that very obviously doesn't adhere to basic rules of physics?

Why make it more complicated than it has to be? She's good at fighting, especially with weapons. She knows how to swing a stick at someone effectively. How is that not enough for the purposes of this particular story?

What's odd about it? Staffs are completely different weapons, and every time a character has picked up a new weapon in Star Wars, there was a learning curve.

The Jedi trained their younglings for years in lightsaber training. Luke had to learn how to swing a sword and man the gun on the Falcon. Finn had to learn how to properly shoot in a TIE fighter and later in the Falcon.

Rey is the only one that picks up the lightsaber and is instantly good at it. I would say she did the same thing with the blaster Han gave her but I can't say with certainy that she never shot a blaster before.

Point is, Star Wars isn't a Marvel or any other popcorn flick where the characters just pick up stuff and are amazing at it from the jump. Certainly not with anything related to Jedi. So why defend it?

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Saw it for a second time. Binary Sunset playing when Rey force-grabs Luke's lightsaber.

Not Binary Sunset, actually.

 

[F!ReW!Re]

Holy shit dude, LoL. RoTS first?

You clearly mean WTF: Empire last?????????

 

[lastplayed]

But it been should many times that people cant stand up to jedi in a saber fight.

Pfft, tell that to all the scrubs who tried to kill me with vibroblades in KOTOR.

 

[Jest Chillin]

Kylo could have created the saber after he fell to the Dark Side and began training under Snoke. For all we know the model was particular to the Sith and before that he wielded a regular one. That doesn't really matter. We know for a fact that Ren has much more experience in swordplay and the Force than Rey.

It's most likely that he created it after influence from Snoke but that doesn't mean Luke trained him in Saber use at all. Ren claiming that Luke's old saber should be his, suggests that Luke never gave him one to begin with. It's a pretty classic "I should have gotten that, not you" type of statement that's typical of traitorous students that were too eager for power.

We know that Ren has used his Saber more. Sure. We know he's been trained to some extent, sure. That doesn't mean that he's an expert with a saber and doesn't mean that the strength of his Force use is in the same areas that Rey's are.

Just because he has been trained doesn't mean that he's particularly strong at everything he knows how to do. For example Obi Wan is shown to be a great duelist while Anakin is better at ultilizing his Force abilities while he duels. Yoda is supposed to be stronger and more knowledgable than Mace... but Mace beats Palapatine in his duel while Yoda fights to a stalemate that he realized he would lose if he continued.

 

[JeffZero]

As someone who has spent some time in martial arts and knows people who fence - yes being good with a weapon (or a great athlete or smart in general) gives you the ability to use another weapon to a certain degree but NOTHING compared to someone who has trained with that weapon. Going from never having picked up a sword to beating a jedi of some sort who has used it for years definitely defies logic.

A resounding "eh."

I've won district Way of the Sword shindigs with tai chi style. I work really, really hard at what I do and I'm proud of what I've accomplished. It is a neverending journey of self-improvement.

This, however, is Star Wars. And if Star Wars wants to dictate to me that the mysticism of the Force is giving Rey a field advantage, I really just do not mind.

 

[golem]

I'll have to disagree I really don't think it those. The in-universe reason is that she's powerful in the force. Ok.
I guess you don't need training or anything to beat someone with years of it. These films have shown different.

How do you know she has no training?

 

[majik13]

That's what I'm thinking. Ren calling Finn a traitor was for me the most emotional aspect of that final fight. He just screamed it at Finn despite Finn being a nobody. Not to mention that huge rage fit when he found out Finn helped BB8 escaped.

That really surprised me. I was expecting it to be a Rey/Ren rivalry due to the Skywalker blood stuff but I'm starting to
wonder if there'll be a Finn/Ren showdown instead.

Maybe, but Im sure he is really pissed at Rey for fucking his shit up and face, more so now.

Unless he becomes frightened of her.

 

[SparkleMotion]

Kylo Ren is not a typical villain character. We, as an audience, are not supposed to fear him like we did Vader. We see his flaws. We don't need him to dominate so we can go "wow, what a fearful villain". We're supposed to see him as being weak in many areas.

 

[Shaanyboi]

I got that feeling too. The rage she felt was definitely visible and I was wondering if Kylo was going to comment on it and go, "Yes, feed into the Dark Side."

I LOVED that Kylo was stating that he was getting "seduced by the Light Side" since we're so used to hearing "seduced to the Dark Side". It's so fun to see the other perspective.

Yeah I loved that too. Same with his statement to Han about needing to end the thing that's paining him.

 

[Acerac]

Jedi is 6 months after Empire. Not 4 years. And yeah Luke was obviously doing some kind of training (he was able to make a lightsaber after all) but in that six months he couldn't find the time to head back to the only living Jedi that he knew of so he obviously wasn't training *too* hard.

If he couldn't visit him how does that imply that he wasn't busy? Especially given the leap he's shown to make by the time he shows up in Jedi?

 

[3N16MA]

She knows how to fight using a staff, she seems to be at the very least decent at combat, she is tough and intelligent.

I would guess that she would do alright picking up a lightsaber for the first time. Better than most would be my guess. Combine that with the force and she can do some damage.

She beat a dude who was badly injured and unhinged. It's not like she had her way with him.

I don't see the problem.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

What's odd about it? Staffs are completely different weapons,

That's exactly what's odd about it - the idea that a big stick is COMPLETELY different from a medium sized one, especially for the purposes of the mystical fantasy film about superheroes who call on a mystical energy field to do things like pause people in mid-motion and pull memories out of your head by shaking an open palm in front of your face.

ESPECIALLY when one half of that duel is a freaked out, emotionally distraught dipshit with a giant slash on one arm and a shotgun blast in his left kidney.

 

[Pixels]

1. Jar Jar
2. Anikin
3. Palpatine
4. Who cares!

 

[injurai]

1. Jar Jar
2. Anikin
3. Palpatine
4. Who cares!

Sheeeev

 

[maquiladora]

1. Revenge of The Sith
2. The Force Awakens
3. A New Hope
4. The Phantom Menace
5. Return of The Jedi
6. Attack of The Clones
7. Empire Strikes Back

 

[snaffles]

None of those reasons have much weight to me.
I have a simpler explanation, the film wanted her to win and so she did.

It's almost like the movie was scripted.

 

[Papercuts]

Kylo Ren is not a typical villain character. We, as an audience, are not supposed to fear him like we did Vader. We see his flaws. We don't need him to dominate so we can go "wow, what a fearful villain". We're supposed to see him as being weak in many areas.

I have no issue with Kylo being a flawed villain, it's more that it came at the expense of Rey's development as she's a Mary Sue through and through.

 

[diaspora]

Rey's power with the force is like Anakin's in Phantom Menace. He's magically amazing, why? Because fuck it, that's why.

 

[Timbuktu]

Kylo Ren is not a typical villain character. We, as an audience, are not supposed to fear him like we did Vader. We see his flaws. We don't need him to dominate so we can go "wow, what a fearful villain". We're supposed to see him as being weak in many areas.

I guess it's the role reversal from the OT that Hux seems competent throughout and quite together even when the planet was caving in on itself. He's the reason why the First Order is effective, whereas Ren is just to satisfy Snokr's interests.

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

How do you know she has no training?

Because she didn't?'
I guess you can theorized that she had some training with Luke before she drop her off on jakku but I don't think nearly to beat Kylo Ren.

It's almost like the movie was scripted.

Obviously but if I wanted to "believe" in this world I would like to have its own internal logic for why things happen.
Not because a film maker said so.

 

[injurai]

Oh speaking about Sheev. Did anyone notice Rey's fighting style was reminiscent of Sheev's in RotS?

That sort of high armed piercing attack. You know the gif.

 

[JeffZero]

4. Y-Wing is fat and slow
3. B-Wing is kind of weird IMO sorry-dorry
2. X-Wing is as cool
1. A-Wing is the bestest best

 

[Mariolee]

I also liked the touch that this Star Wars movie had a plot point directly related to an actual star (using the sun to charge the Starkiller Base).

 

[RedRum]

You clearly mean WTF: Empire last?????????

My rage didn't even get that far down the list yet.

 

[Brawndo Addict]

I also liked the touch that this Star Wars movie had a plot point directly related to an actual star (using the sun to charge the Starkiller Base).

Reminded me of the Starforge in Kotor.

 

[sirap]

No, it doesn't.

The movie made it clear Ren has a bad temperament.

His Force abilities are some of the most impressive we've seen in the entire series.



What's odd about it? Staffs are completely different weapons, and every time a character has picked up a new weapon in Star Wars, there was a learning curve.

The Jedi trained their younglings for years in lightsaber training. Luke had to learn how to swing a sword and man the gun on the Falcon. Finn had to learn how to properly shoot in a TIE fighter and later in the Falcon.

Rey is the only one that picks up the lightsaber and is instantly good at it. I would say she did the same thing with the blaster Han gave her but I can't say with certainy that she never shot a blaster before.

Point is, Star Wars isn't a Marvel or any other popcorn flick where the characters just pick up stuff and are amazing at it from the jump. Certainly not with anything related to Jedi. So why defend it?

That's not true. Kylo's force abilities were rudimentary at best if you compared him to the likes of Mace Windu, Yoda, or even Starkiller (who was canon before disney bought the rights)

Also, I don't understand why you're ignoring Kylo's injuries? Dude got shot by an extremely powerful bowcaster. At best, that means having a fractured ribs. I've had that, and you can't do shit with that kind of injury. He was severely handicapped, and coupled with the guilt of killing his own father, not really in the best state of mind. Rey's experience with a staff makes it competency with a lightsaber plausible. Also, it's shown that she can receive visions from just touching Luke's lightsaber. Maybe there's something more to her abilities.

 

[EdReedFan20]

Jedi Steps? I doubt it. It sounded exactly like what was used in the film, and I can pick out exactly the part that was used in the Shondaland spot. I think that's all there is of The Jedi Steps. Unfortunately.

Actually listening to it again, you're right. I think the teaser version was a cut down version. It's all there, but there is more in between that was not in the teaser. That's not dissimilar to a teaser/trailer having a piece of dialogue that is actually longer in the actual movie. For instance, in the Attack of the Clones (ugh) trailer, Palpatine says, "I will not let this Republic be split in two. My negotiations will not fail." Whereas in the movie he says instead " I will not let this Republic, which has stood for a thousand years, be split in two. My negotiations will not fail."

Personally (I suppose this is because I've heard the teaser version of the cue many times by now), I currently prefer the presentation of the cue as presented in the teaser. I'm sure, after I listen to the soundtrack more and get used to it, my preference could shift.

Also, since I know you had an interest. The logo was weird. I'm surprised they kept it short. I'm even more surprised it was silent. The thing is, because there is no music bleeding into the movie from the logo (as there never is in a Star Wars movie), they could easily insert a fuller logo if they ever feel like making one.

 

[Pixels]

Rey has to have repressed memories. She has to have been trained already.

 

[AlphaStriker]

I got that feeling too. The rage she felt was definitely visible and I was wondering if Kylo was going to comment on it and go, "Yes, feed into the Dark Side."

I LOVED that Kylo was stating that he was getting "seduced by the Light Side" since we're so used to hearing "seduced to the Dark Side". It's so fun to see the other perspective.

What would be really interesting if this trilogy showed the redemption of Kylo Ren returning to the light side while Rey falls to the dark side. That would be pretty gutsy haha

 

[Frog-fu]

Jedi is 6 months after Empire. Not 4 years. And yeah Luke was obviously doing some kind of training (he was able to make a lightsaber after all) but in that six months he couldn't find the time to head back to the only living Jedi that he knew of so he obviously wasn't training *too* hard.

My mistake. Jedi is 4 years after ANH. Jedi is 1 year after Empire.

My point still stands. Luke had time and training. As did Kylo Ren.

Rey had neither.

 

[Jarmel]

Someone desperately trying to cling to the tenants of the First Order as an authoritative figure and someone as a grunt desperately trying to get away. Finn and Ren's animosity is probably one of the few interwsting things in the film.

There's a ton of visual shots connecting the two which was surprising like Kylo looking at Finn after the Jakku massacre or Kylo staring at Finn after he murders Han.

Hopefully they expand on this in 8.

 

[CrichtonKicks]

If he couldn't visit him how does that imply that he wasn't busy? Especially given the leap he's shown to make by the time he shows up in Jedi?

Oh, he was no doubt busy- probably planning that insanely convoluted rescue for Han.

But what kind of training was he getting without Yoda to justify his leap in abilities that he didn't get without Yoda in the 5 years between ANH and Empire?

The answer is just that it's cool to have Luke show in Jedi with neat new powers. He gets to be a badass now and that's awesome. And that's perfectly fine because this is Pulp Space Opera.

My mistake. Jedi is 4 years after ANH. Jedi is 1 year after Empire.

My point still stands. Luke had time and training. As did Kylo Ren.

Rey had neither.

Let me get this straight- you are ok with assuming Luke got new extra training between Empire and Jedi despite the fact that we knew it didn't come from the only living Jedi Master? So we just invent his training out of thin air and make an assumption? But we can't make an equal assumption that Rey might have had some kind of training too? Because there is equal evidence for both.

 

[Fixed2BeBroken]

1. Revenge of The Sith
2. The Force Awakens
3. A New Hope
4. The Phantom Menace
5. Return of The Jedi
6. Attack of The Clones
7. Empire Strikes Back

 

[golem]

Because she didn't?'
I guess you can theorized that she had some training with Luke before she drop her off on jakku but I don't think nearly to beat Kylo Ren.

The point is we dont know. We dont even know when Luke, or whomever, dropped her off. It could have been the day before for all we know. Like I said previously we just dont have enough information at this time to say one way or another. To assume it is just movie handwaving isnt giving the writers much credit, although it is certainly a possibility.

 

[diaspora]

My mistake. Jedi is 4 years after ANH. Jedi is 1 year after Empire.

My point still stands. Luke had time and training. As did Kylo Ren.

Rey had neither.

She won for the same reason Anakin won the podrace when he was like less than 10 against seasoned veterans. She's OP, and Ren's weak given his inability to commit to the dark. It is what it is.

 

[Heroman]

Here is Pre Vizsla a skill fighter who was the leader of death watch

He couldnt hold has own with any of the jedi he came across, ranging form masters to padawan, if he could hold his what makes you thing rey can.

 

[Rogan]

Watched it yesterday.

Classic story telling, I really loved this movie. I never got the Star Wars love and thought that episode 4,5 and 6 where mediocre.

 

[odiin]

Daniel Craig being the Jedi mind-tricked stormtrooper is blowing my mind right now.

I know I'm late. I just saw the movie, gimme a break.

He wasn't mind tricked, he just let her go. His character is a secret agent working undercover for her majesty's secret resistance. His master is General Leia, but he just refers to her as "M".

 

[JeffZero]

And that's perfectly fine because this is Pulp Space Opera.

Crichton gets it.

My stance exactly.

 

[BarringGaffner]

Because she didn't?'
I guess you can theorized that she had some training with Luke before she drop her off on jakku but I don't think nearly to beat Kylo Ren.

You underestimate the power of the Force.

I don't understand why you guys are so desperate to make Kylo Ren the strongest villain ever. It's so much more interesting that even with all that training he was weak.