[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens - It's True. All of it.

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FeD.nL said:
Regarding Rey being a Kenobi and the imagery involved this is what I noticed so far on my viewings:


  • Brit accent
  • First words spoken is some alien language that scares away someone and saves a droid
  • Gives Luke his father's lightsaber
  • When climbing down the troopers there are talking about a BT-17, when Obi-Wan goes to pull down the switch on the Death Star the troopers there are takling about a BT-16
  • Mind trick
  • Sir Alec Guinness can clearly be heard saying 'Rey'. Followed by a whispering voice saying 'these are your first steps' closely mirroring Sir Alec's line 'this is your first step into a larger world'
  • Gets BB-8 to 'play' the message. Han says to BB-8 'show me what you have' BB-8 turns to Rey who says 'go ahead' and BB-8 proceeds to play the message. Once again mirroring Obi-Wan who gets the full message played from R2
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Hmmm very interesting. I thought it was Luke stalking about it being her first steps. I'll have to listen closely on my next viewing. That and to confirm that Luke was standing over a grave.

I wonder when Kenobi would have had his family though.

takriel said:
How can she be Obi-Wan's if she's like 20 years old in the movie?
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*grand daughter
 
I don't think JJ gives a shit about what powers were in the previous movies or how powerful an untrained Jedi is supposed to be or even how planet destroying laser beams would appear to nearby planets. And that's exactly why this film works where the prequels failed.

I think that's the beauty of what hes done with this just like with Star Trek, he took the emotional beats and the universe, spun the story a bit and gave it back to you. He didn't waste time trying to explain everything, or make every encounter play out as a spreadsheet could predict because the originals didn't do that either (the prequels meanwhile went to exhaustive lengths telling you who was more powerful than who and even had obi wan telling the audience why he was going to beat anakin before he did it).

It doesn't make for a thrilling 10/10 film but it was a safe choice that will restore a lot of faith for the coming onslaught of star wars movies.
 
FeD.nL said:
Regarding Rey being a Kenobi and the imagery involved this is what I noticed so far on my viewings:


  • Brit accent
  • First words spoken is some alien language that scares away someone and saves a droid
  • Gives Luke his father's lightsaber
  • When climbing down the troopers there are talking about a BT-17, when Obi-Wan goes to pull down the switch on the Death Star the troopers there are takling about a BT-16
  • Mind trick
  • Sir Alec Guinness can clearly be heard saying 'Rey'. Followed by a whispering voice saying 'these are your first steps' closely mirroring Sir Alec's line 'this is your first step into a larger world'
  • Gets BB-8 to 'play' the message. Han says to BB-8 'show me what you have' BB-8 turns to Rey who says 'go ahead' and BB-8 proceeds to play the message. Once again mirroring Obi-Wan who gets the full message played from R2
Click to expand...
Would be absolutely amazing.
Would also give more stuff for that speculated Obi-Wan movie to work with.
 
darkinstinct said:
That quote doesn't make a lot of sense. It says the light sabre ends up in the hand of a girl. Meaning in the book Ren doesn't even recognize who he is fighting against until what, a couple of minutes into the fight? In the movie he clearly knows he is fighting Finn and Rey.

It is you can mean many things. Oh it is you that I felt when we had that force awakening earlier this day. Oh it is you that I tortured earlier on my star destroyer. Oh it is you who gave my stormtroopers a workout on Jakku. It is you ... who I met when I trained with Luke seems like a stretch to me.
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the "it is you" is not the point, it's that ren knows more about her than she does herself.
there's a Memory wipe/replacement Thing going on, Revan style.
 
I think you guys are setting yourselves up for disappointment with this Rey is related to obi wan thing.
But we'll see.
BlastProcessing said:
There is a sort of trade-off here. The movie is already pushing it in length. By having a simple plot (and one that existing fans can super easily follow to boot) you buy yourself a lot more time for characterisation.

If you put these characters in a novel, wizbang plot you are going to have to divert time (and audience attention) away from the new characters. I think if the next two movies have such simple action it would be fair to criticize, but here I think they had the correct priorities.
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I think having a simple plot is find I just don't think it needed to be one I've seen before.
And I think they totally had the right priorities. This movie is going to make tons of money and the fans are loving but for me I just don't like it.
 
darkinstinct said:
That quote doesn't make a lot of sense. It says the light sabre ends up in the hand of a girl. Meaning in the book Ren doesn't even recognize who he is fighting against until what, a couple of minutes into the fight? In the movie he clearly knows he is fighting Finn and Rey.

It is you can mean many things. Oh it is you that I felt when we had that force awakening earlier this day. Oh it is you that I tortured earlier on my star destroyer. Oh it is you who gave my stormtroopers a workout on Jakku. It is you ... who I met when I trained with Luke seems like a stretch to me.
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Jyw3TRU.png
 
Jest Chillin said:
She isn't? Do we know that for sure? This movie leaves a LOT more up to interpretation than anything in the PT. There are long shots where there is zero dialogue and simply the actor expression and tone of the shot are all that tells what's happening. Just because they didn't outright say that Rey isn't as powerful as Anakin doesn't mean that she isn't.

Moreso than that, Star Wars has a long legacy of Chosen One legends and at this point, Rey is clearly in the lead in terms of likelihood of fulfilling that role for this trilogy.
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She probably is powerful, but not anywhere near Anakin.

I've read a shit ton of EU material, and it's been made clear that each subsequent Skywalker becomes less powerful than his/her predecessor. Anakin had unlimited potential, but his injuries severely cut down on his potential. It's why Palpatine wanted Luke as a replacement, he views Vader as a disappointment. Luke, being the next Skywalker in their "line" also had massive potential, but came in as a Jedi with little training and at a very late age. He eventually becomes insanely powerful in the extended universe, achieving feats even Yoda couldn't even dream of.
 
This topic moves so damn fast...

Dusktildawn48 said:
So is daisy ridley related to kiera knightley? (She's not...I don't think)
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Rey is the grand daughter of Padme's double! It's been brought up many times before but I wonder if it's just a coincidence that they cast someone who resembles Knightley and Portman a bit.
 
Just got back. Overall, I enjoyed it. As much as I expected it, Han's death hit me right in the feels, and the overall feel of the film was closer to the OG trilogy, which I appreciate. Captain Phasma was criminally underused (hey, let's create a badass female leader and she doesn't do shit!) and the retread of yet another superweapon is annoying even if the concept was cool, but other than that, it was a return to form for the franchise.

That said, two major questions come out of this.

1. Who is Snoke? People are saying he's a Reincarnated Darth Plaguis or Palpatine, possibly a forerunner to the Sith. There's still a lot of questions, hopefully ones that will be answered.

2. Luke is Rey's father, that's made pretty obvious in the flashbacks. Ben turns on him, kills the rest of his disciples, and to protect her he dumps her off on a desert planet the same way Obi-Wan did to him. But the question becomes...who's the mother. Are we getting Mara Jade in the sequel trilogy after all?

Probably not. But it's fun to dream!

EDIT: Having read Fed.NL's theory, I retract my statement.
 
Bobby Roberts said:
I do wonder if it's really Guinness saying "Rey," and not James Arnold Taylor, who IS credited with doing additional voicework.

Which would make the decision to have Obi-Wan say "Rey" even more conspicuous, I think.



Doesn't HAVE to be Satine. There's a 20 year gap on Tatooine between III & IV.
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You think Obi-wan double dipped?

I guess that's possible but I'd kind of ruin his love for Satine. The guys making the movie probably don't give a shit about secondary characters from The Clone Wars, though.
 
Bobby Roberts said:
I do wonder if it's really Guinness saying "Rey," and not James Arnold Taylor, who IS credited with doing additional voicework.

Which would make the decision to have Obi-Wan say "Rey" even more conspicuous, I think.
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Or it was Mark Hamill doing the voice, which is almost certainly the case. He is more likely to nail Guinesses' voice. Plus he's done Guinness impressions multiple times at press events and in interviews, so we know he can do them well. Throw in some post work.
 
BarringGaffner said:
I thought this was pretty obvious? I'm surprised how many think he is actually huge.

Anyone else read I, Jedi and think that maybe something similar that happened to Luke's academy in that book is what happened inbetween VI and VII? But instead of a Sith ghost perhaps Snoke was present near the Jedi training [temples] and was turning Kylo Ren?
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Only if Corran Horn can appear and save the day.
 
John Harker said:
First Order who are under Kylo's #1 mission is to locate and eliminate Luke Skywalker. Unlike Hux who is sent to wipe out the Resistence, it makes total sense Kylo's forces would have weapons and be trained to combat Jedi weapons... Since they are trained to kill Skywalker.

Hux is the secular commander and Kylo the spiritual... One trained for mass war, the other to eliminate the Light. One with a star killer and the other with light saber batons I suppose haha.
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This is a good point, it makes more sense in that context.

The fight itself still felt weird / unnecessary to me, but I think that resolves the 'where the hell did that come from' part of it.
 
One thing that interested me was the competition between Ren and Hux. Almost like they were trying to up one another in front of daddy Snoke.
 
  • Ren betrayed the Republic and the Jedi
  • Finn betrayed the Stormtroopers and the First Order
  • Ren fights to seek approval from First Order leadership
  • Finn acts in defiance of it from every step of the way.

If Ren's final confrontation isn't with Finn, I'm going to laugh.
 
Rey Kenobi is ok but it's bonkers if Obi-Wan had a kid. Like total nonsense. Dude was a Real-Ass Jedi, those guys don't have passionate flings with Mos Eisley floozies. Especially in light of Ben watching his dear friend Anakin fall to ruin specifically because of an emotional attachment, it's crazy to imagine Ben just had a fling somewhere along the line.
 
sirap said:
Here's an interesting fact about Mara Jade, Luke's lover and wife from the EU. She grew up in Coruscant, where people have English accents.

In fact, Obi Wan Kenobi is often described as someone who speaks with a "distinct Coruscanti accent", ie. British.
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With one trillion inhabitants on Coruscant chances are that half the galaxy has a brit accent.
 
Buba Big Guns said:
I dont understand the Rey vs Ren complaints. Ren seemed like a weak ass dude, still a noob with the force, while Rey was clearly a beast with it. We don't know shit about her past yet, but it's pretty heavily hinted that she had some sort of training.

Complain about Ren vs Flinn instead...even then Flinn got his face cut and almost died. I think that fight just proves Ren isn't really very strong.

Probably supposed to be that way since this movie is a great setup to Ep 8 and 9 where these character will obviously get much stronger.
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I had no issues with the fights. Ren was hurt and had just murdered his dad. Though that should maybe have pushed him over the edge. We'll see. He's going to get trained in the second movie, just as Rey is going to get trained by Luke. (right?)
 
John Harker said:
First Order who are under Kylo's #1 mission is to locate and eliminate Luke Skywalker. Unlike Hux who is sent to wipe out the Resistence, it makes total sense Kylo's forces would have weapons and be trained to combat Jedi weapons... Since they are trained to kill Skywalker.

Hux is the secular commander and Kylo the spiritual... One trained for mass war, the other to eliminate the Light. One with a star killer and the other with light saber batons I suppose haha.
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That actually makes a lot of sense. Certainly no prize worthy at least.
 
diaspora said:
You can lead into future films without the villain being a chump. It doesn't excuse mediocrity.
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Ren is only a chump if you're comparing him to Vader/Palpatine. He's inexperienced and clearly doesn't have his shit together. That's a much better villain than just having Hitler #12987892734 as the antagonist.
 
golem said:
Its not super obvious in the movie, but the general tone is everyone else knows more about her than she does.

Anyways here is a quote from the book
2XpXeaF.png
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Maybe it was actually Rey who killed all of Lukes Academy. She lied and blamed it all on Kylo. Thats why hes so pissed. argh!

Thats why Luke is a bit taken back and disgusted by her.
 
Brakke said:
Rey Kenobi is ok but it's bonkers if Obi-Wan had a kid. Like total nonsense. Dude was a Real-Ass Jedi, those guys don't have passionate flings with Mos Eisley floozies. Especially in light of Ben watching his dear friend Anakin fall to ruin specifically because of an emotional attachment, it's crazy to imagine Ben just had a fling somewhere along the line.
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It's crazy to think he didn't have a fling at some point during his hermitry
 
Buba Big Guns said:
Ren is only a chump if you're comparing him to Vader/Palpatine. He's inexperienced and clearly doesn't have his shit together. That's a much better villain than just having Hitler #12987892734 as the antagonist.
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Vader, Palpatine, Maul, Dooku, weakened Greivous. Weakest antagonist across any of the films.
 
Brakke said:
Rey Kenobi is ok but it's bonkers if Obi-Wan had a kid. Like total nonsense. Dude was a Real-Ass Jedi, those guys don't have passionate flings with Mos Eisley floozies. Especially in light of Ben watching his dear friend Anakin fall to ruin specifically because of an emotional attachment, it's crazy to imagine Ben just had a fling somewhere along the line.
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I don't think they are establishing her as a Kenobi, but rather drawing parallels / references to them. At least, that's what I'm hoping. That would all be too on the nose, otherwise, in addition to making no sense.

Enough with the family drama reveals, just let her be a badass.
 
GhaleonEB said:
I don't think they are establishing her as a Kenobi, but rather drawing parallels / references to them. At least, that's what I'm hoping. That would all be too on the nose, otherwise, in addition to making no sense.

Enough with the family drama reveals, just let her be a badass.
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They already laid the foundations. The family reveal is going to happen
 
Anyone else feel the final attack on the weapon planet felt kind of empty? Didn't feel the stakes at all. Thought they did a sub-par job of getting across why it was so important to destroy it...nevermind not spending more time on letting the impact of 4-5 planets getting eradicated sink in. Felt rushed.
 
MMarston said:
This better not be separate twins all over again
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I don't buy the twin theory since there's no way Leia and Han would just ship Rey off to some desert by herself for, like, 15 years.

It was clear that they loved Ben Solo and were completely crushed by his turn to the Dark Side.
 
sirap said:
She probably is powerful, but not anywhere near Anakin.

I've read a shit ton of EU material, and it's been made clear that each subsequent Skywalker becomes less powerful than his/her predecessor. Anakin had unlimited potential, but his injuries severely cut down on his potential. It's why Palpatine wanted Luke as a replacement, he views Vader as a disappointment. Luke, being the next Skywalker in their "line" also had massive potential, but came in as a Jedi with little training and at a very late age. He eventually becomes insanely powerful in the extended universe, achieving feats even Yoda couldn't even dream of.
Click to expand...

I've read a bit of the EU as well and while that's great, the thing to keep in mind is that the old EU is dead and gone.

We don't know that Rey is actually a Skywalker and we don't know that Skywalker's getting progressively weaker by generation is something that still holds true.

There's also just issues in general with all of that stuff. Lucas' has said Anakin is definitively the chosen one of legend but the PT and TCW have conflicting versions of what the prophecy was supposed to mean (and Lucas was heavily involved in both of those things). Then you have Luke actually being the one to bring about the definition of balance that was believed to be the meaning of the prophecy in the PT. So then TCW reeks of Lucas just changing his mind. And all of that is just Lucas' take on things. Start bringing in the EU as written by a bunch of different authors and the whole thing is a mess.
 
I think if Obi-Wan had a kid that child would have been taken into consideration as a candidate to defeat Darth Vader in the OT. Ben specifically said that Luke was their last hope and Yoda corrected him saying that there was another (Leia). So it could be possible that Rey is his granddaughter, but it would be sloppy.
 
My feeling about Rey, during the movie, was that during all her alone time she'd been training herself with "feeling the force" without actually using it, without knowing what it really was. There was a line that went something like, "You've felt it, you've known, haven't you?" She's had a significant amount of hermit spiritual training without the practical application of it.
 
Alucard said:
Anyone else feel the final attack on the weapon planet felt kind of empty? Didn't feel the stakes at all. Thought they did a sub-par job of getting across why it was so important to destroy it...nevermind spending more time on letting the impact of 4-5 planets getting eradicated sink in.
Click to expand...

It was awful. No real sense of tension or anything.
 
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