Tom Nook Sawyer
Member
I really couldn't give less of a shit what the "point" of the movie is if the movie itself isn't very good
[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens - It's True. All of it.
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
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I really couldn't give less of a shit what the "point" of the movie is if the movie itself isn't very good
riskybusinesstomcruise
Member
Even the way Ren deflects blaster shots reveals his nature and level of skill with a lightsaber. Where as other force users deflect shots with what are essentially flicks of the wrist (ie. efficient) Ren uses full almost wild swings to repel the blaster fire.
ValeYard
Member
Did anyone else think the reflection of the lightsabers in Ren's eyes in the final fight change color: from blue vs red in one shot to green vs red in the next in a call back to RotJ?
Whatever happened in that fight due to Ren being injured, it seemed like an historical moment that the Force has been leading towards. Hope they can pay this off and explain why Luke hung out on an island instead of helping his old buddy Han.
Whatever happened in that fight due to Ren being injured, it seemed like an historical moment that the Force has been leading towards. Hope they can pay this off and explain why Luke hung out on an island instead of helping his old buddy Han.
Finally, some one gets it.
They made a point of showing that off in the movie before the fight scene. Kylo was just shot in the stomach by a blaster. He is hardly in fighting shape, and was chasing the pair out of frustration and anger. Rey, despite lacking some training, was likely able to overpower him because of this.
He was toying with her in that scene.
Same. It's probably why I've been in this thread for the better part of the last hour and change. I felt a really strong connection to the character and a few of the critique posts inspired me to stick around and say otherwise.
I misinterpreted the tone in a couple of your posts, then. That's all.
Calcium
Banned
Ren had two injuries and was emotionally unstable. Rey got tossed around, but she didn't have a scratch on her. She had the upper hand in the fight. Kylo could sense how strong she was in the Force and knew she had the potential to kill him.
I will go see it again, but I doubt my interpretation of the battle will change.
I do agree. Star Wars has the potential for serious reinvention. The series isn't very known for "invention" despite the OT being inventive. Maybe in the future.
Tom Nook Sawyer
Member
That's my...new hope
riverboatgambler
Banned
I'll just say I completely disagree with this. Lets not kid ourselves, the fans would have seen this regardless, the pull of the originals is still stronger than the horror of the prequels. Artists shouldn't be concerned about what fans what, they should be committed to great work. Fans love work that has already been created, they shouldn't be anywhere near the creative process.
Just saw it a few minutes ago, something that bothered me was the weak villain in Ren and the lack of screen time for Luke, who has now become a bitch-made version of Uncle Ben.
The Solo death didnt come as a big surprise because I think I remember reading a rumor on it which subconsciously prepared me for it although it was not confirmed. I liked Reys character alot, although she is clearly overpowered, and from the trailers I thought Finn was the Jedi since he wielded the saber but I guess all he is is a goofy runaway storm trooper. Add to all this the movie seemed to be going through the motions at the end there when it lost all its steam in the 3rd act when it ended in that pathetic scene with Luke.
Overall I liked the movie but I need a redeemed Luke in the sequel and a real villain
The Solo death didnt come as a big surprise because I think I remember reading a rumor on it which subconsciously prepared me for it although it was not confirmed. I liked Reys character alot, although she is clearly overpowered, and from the trailers I thought Finn was the Jedi since he wielded the saber but I guess all he is is a goofy runaway storm trooper. Add to all this the movie seemed to be going through the motions at the end there when it lost all its steam in the 3rd act when it ended in that pathetic scene with Luke.
Overall I liked the movie but I need a redeemed Luke in the sequel and a real villain
I kinda thought the look Luke gave Rey at the end of the movie was kinda weird too. Maybe it was because he was meditating or something, but he didn't show any emotion that would've indicated happiness. He almost looked... disturbed, or disinterested? Super-weathered maybe? I'll have to see again for sure when I go see it again.
Just the silence, and the long pause, and her trying to hand him the lightsaber... Something didn't feel right to me. Like we didn't know the whole picture.
Just the silence, and the long pause, and her trying to hand him the lightsaber... Something didn't feel right to me. Like we didn't know the whole picture.
but they kinda do?
Go see it again and then argue with me.
Ren wasn't mentally compromised. He killed Han. He made his choice. He was going to kill Finn and Rey. He had Rey on the run and at his mercy at the edge. He tried recruiting her, she didn't go for it, got her Force power up and kick his ass.
That is what happened.
I don't know where you lot get the impression from that this dude was going full on burnt Anakin in RoTS.
CrowdChant
Member
Reading some of the posts in this thread makes me realize that some of you would not have been happy with this movie under any circumstances. Some of the criticism and nitpicking is insane. No, the movie wasn't perfect but Jesus Christ.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I don't have to quote your whole post to address the only pertinent parts. So I don't.
As has been pointed out, this guy on a good day has sit downs with the burnt, deformed helmet of his dead grandfather, stolen off his funeral pyre.
You're arguing he's not unhinged, and the example I just cited is before he kills his father with tears in his eyes, gets shot by what might as well be his uncle, and gets cut up by a guy who actually WAS seduced by the light and managed to make it work for him, without Force affinity.
Your argument is kinda fucked.
He's raw as fuck. It would be pretty funny if he turned out to be Luke's weakest apprentice. All signs point to him being reckless (too much of Solo in him perhaps?) Force sensitive children are trained since a young age to master their emotions, and maybe it just wasn't possible for Ben.
The pressure of living up to the Skywalker name, as well as having your uncle being THE Jedi master must have drove him right into Snoke's hands.
You don't kill your father and not feel anything. I've watched that scene twice. Kylo was distracted enough to get shot by Chewie. His reflexes and attunement to the force was good enough for him to stop Poe's blaster shot in the beginning. Clearly, killing his dad affected him.
Just got back from seeing it. It's fun, real fun, and I'm not particularly disappointed in any legitimate way.
I'd love to read through thoughts more extensively in this thread, but I'm very tired so I have to be brief.
I agree with those who say that Ren was clearly compromised both emotionally and physically to such an extent that you could clearly see it during the final encounter.
But...I also agree that Rey's ascendance into ass-kicking Jedi Knight was too convenient, too rushed, despite the contextualization and circumstance that would allow for such a rapid growth in ability. It's so Abrams, and just like his Kirk rising to Captain status in such a short time frame, Rey's rise feels about the same, with all the pomp of destiny but minus Kirk's "failing your way to the top" silliness.
I will give them some credit though, Rey is never shown 1. manipulating objects with the force, i.e. force push. 2. She's a good pilot, but thankfully isn't forced to participate in the tunnel run on nu-Mega-Death Star. That would've been too much. Really, it's just her immediate understanding and ability to succesfully Jedi mind trick someone that kinda bothered me. Everything else about her can be justified in a way that I can probably easily accept, but we'll see in the morning.
Anyway, I liked The Force Awakens. Finn was great, especially.
I'd love to read through thoughts more extensively in this thread, but I'm very tired so I have to be brief.
I agree with those who say that Ren was clearly compromised both emotionally and physically to such an extent that you could clearly see it during the final encounter.
But...I also agree that Rey's ascendance into ass-kicking Jedi Knight was too convenient, too rushed, despite the contextualization and circumstance that would allow for such a rapid growth in ability. It's so Abrams, and just like his Kirk rising to Captain status in such a short time frame, Rey's rise feels about the same, with all the pomp of destiny but minus Kirk's "failing your way to the top" silliness.
I will give them some credit though, Rey is never shown 1. manipulating objects with the force, i.e. force push. 2. She's a good pilot, but thankfully isn't forced to participate in the tunnel run on nu-Mega-Death Star. That would've been too much. Really, it's just her immediate understanding and ability to succesfully Jedi mind trick someone that kinda bothered me. Everything else about her can be justified in a way that I can probably easily accept, but we'll see in the morning.
Anyway, I liked The Force Awakens. Finn was great, especially.
I preferred the scene where after discovering that Rey had escaped, he maintained his resolve, waited for the two stormtroopers to arrive and calmly said "Search and find her... or else."
Dude was clearly beating it and someone interrupted his happy time session. It gets lonely on those mountains.
You're a person who respects what Star Wars really meant back in the day, which was more than what Force Awakens celebrates. I get you.
Calcium
Banned
To me it was just the shock of seeing his daughter all grown up standing before him. Who knows though, he could have been using the Force to see the events that led to her finding him.
From watching the movie? It seems everyone understood he was mentally compromised expect for you.
riskybusinesstomcruise
Member
Doesn't he deflect bolts in a similar way in earlier parts of the movie as well? I also don't see using something like that as an intimidation technique being particularly effective either. What would he be trying to gain/portray using those movements?
Calcium
Banned
Should the 5-6 other people arguing with you see it again too?
He probably sensed that Han died or something.
Brawndo Addict
Banned
No that's the complete opposite point the film was making. Killing Han was supposed to be this tremendously vindicating moment for him where he would transform into a full-fledged dark sider and have perfect clarity/solace in what he was doing. Except the complete opposite happened for him, which is why he has such great potential for future films because he's not just this pure evil villain. He doesn't snicker or laugh at Han for trusting him after stabbing him, there's no quip or insult. He's even more confused and distraught, just see his reaction after Han reaches out with love to caress his cheek. He does not look or express a sense of steadfast devotion. This 'final' act was not the liberating switch he hoped it would be.
That leads to him begging with Rey, although now that I think about it, pleading is much better. He was pleading with her, and it's all in the acting so I can't do much more than point it out. But it's a great parallel to his own decisions/journey, he's basically asking her to follow his own path, to affirm that he's made the right choice, he's asking her because he himself is unsure, he's trying to convince himself more than he's trying to convince her.
There was a scene of her by Finn's side on the bed where she clearly makes a decision, gets up and turns away. Maybe that's what you're looking for? Not a ton, but still...
riverboatgambler
Banned
I don't know why Kylo's mental state is even relevant. Rey showed considerable skill with a lightsaber, as did Finn. Certainly not how you would expect a first timer to be fighting.
Calcium
Banned
Leia sensed it when it happened, I imagine Luke would have too.
Oh christ, that's exactly what it was.Just got back from seeing it. It's fun, real fun, and I'm not particularly disappointed in any legitimate way.
I'd love to read through thoughts more extensively in this thread, but I'm very tired so I have to be brief.
I agree with those who say that Ren was clearly compromised both emotionally and physically to such an extent that you could clearly see it during the final encounter.
But...I also agree that Rey's ascendance into ass-kicking Jedi Knight was too convenient, too rushed, despite the contextualization and circumstance that would allow for such a rapid growth in ability. It's so Abrams, and just like his Kirk rising to Captain status in such a short time frame, Rey's rise feels about the same, with all the pomp of destiny but minus Kirk's "failing your way to the top" silliness.
I will give them some credit though, Rey is never shown 1. manipulating objects with the force, i.e. force push. 2. She's a good pilot, but thankfully isn't forced to participate in the tunnel run on nu-Mega-Death Star. That would've been too much. Really, it's just her immediate understanding and ability to succesfully Jedi mind trick someone that kinda bothered me. Everything else about her can be justified in a way that I can probably easily accept, but we'll see in the morning.
Anyway, I liked The Force Awakens. Finn was great, especially.
Jest Chillin
Member
It's not about whether or not they would have seen this as much as this movie needed to re-establish Star Wars in a positive light and the best way to do that with anything that has a rabid and vocal fanbase is by pleasing that rabid and vocal fanbase.
And talking about not kidding ourselves.. Star Wars is at it's best when it's not trying to play to the artistic expression angle. A huge reason why the PT was such a turn off was because Lucas was trying to live up to the reputation of an epic and dramatic universe. Meanwhile when he just made a solid hero's journey retread he created a cultural phenomenon.
He was pretty high up there too! Probably thought nobody would find him.
Could very well be this too!
Sorcerer
Member
Luke seems like he is contemplating weather he should take the saber and return to civilization or continue to be a monk. We can assume his guilt his eating him up inside.
LookAtMeGo
Member
I was gona say. Bobby needs to get with the times if he's not talking to burnt mutilated heads stolen off of deceased relatives funeral pyres. I thought he was cool.
You're ignoring context.
I haven't claimed Ren is a specimen of mental health. I said he wasn't mentally compromised in that duel with Rey - because he wasn't.
That has nothing to do with the weird shit he does with Vader's helmets or his delusions of grandeur.
In that fight, the only thing that held him back were his physical wounds. The choreography backs me up. If you want to project mental anguish, be my guest, but there is no evidence of that. As far as I'm concerned, the film showed that Ren made his choice in committing to the Dark Side by killing Han and he wasn't in pieces over it when fighting Rey.
The only other time I can think of would be Jakku and he just freezes the bolt there. He could be using long exaggerated movements to show how effortlessly this is for him.
Dude, you're talking to a guy who thinks that if you're conflicted about patricide, but then do it that means you must feel okay about it completely.
And despite the numerous scenes depicting him as unstable, he thinks he's stable.
He's obviously set on looking at the film from the worst possible angle, be it rational or not.
Dreams-Visions
Member
He was just trying to do what his master told him to do: bring her to him.
After sleep, I change my opinion about this movie, it isn't mediocre like I said, it's bad.
But the good point that somebody already had said is that the next movies have a lot of potential. In the new movies they can do new things and actually the movie can have some new plot, and this is exciting because Abrams is not a bad director doing new things, but is a terrible director doing remakes.
But the good point that somebody already had said is that the next movies have a lot of potential. In the new movies they can do new things and actually the movie can have some new plot, and this is exciting because Abrams is not a bad director doing new things, but is a terrible director doing remakes.
I agree. After killing Han, Ren sinks into the Dark Side properly.
Look it's fine to have your own opinion and such but multiple people in this thread have tried to explain to you what's going on in the movie to the point where it feels like you just got your head stuck in the sand and you're screaming NOOOOO at the top of your lungs.
1. Ren kills his dad, he's emotionally conflicted in that scene almost to the point of crying like a baby. Then he kills him, basically going over the point of no return, all the way into the darkness. This definitely will affect him for a while (not just 10 seconds).
2. He gets hit by a fucking bowcaster bolt to the stomach after Chewie rages.
3. Then he gets hurt in the Finn encounter.
4. He then fights Rey, who is at that point unhurt, finding out that she's got potential in controlling/using the force and is angry because he killed Han and hurt Chewie/Finn.
There's multiple scenes in the movie seeing that this guy is clearly not "stable".
What do you think just committing patricide and getting fucked up by a bowcaster round getting hurt in a lightsaber fight does to a person that's not "entirely stable"
IT MAKES 'EM EVEN MORE UNSTABLE, hence: mentally compromised.
I'm sorry but you're just wrong....
riverboatgambler
Banned
I don't think that was the problem with the prequels though. The problem was they were god awful. Of course there has to be a thematic through line but seeing something original would have been more exciting. We can always go back and watch A New Hope - why do we need to see that remade with modern filmmaking techniques?
I wonder if he goes Free Willy most of the time.
I took that as more of a goodbye and shipping bait scene.
Guys, it's pretty clear that Ren has never fought anyone in a proper lightsabre fight. He'll kill people who've never used the weapon, but an actual fight? Throw in the fact he's batshit crazy AND has a hole in his chest, AND is going against someone who's remembering her Jedi training...
Dude is lucky he's still alive tbh.
ETA - And even if he does give into the Dark Side, dude fucking yells 'TRAITOR' at Finn with a terrifying amount of emotion. He's not in control of shit. Compare him to Vader or Dooku or Maul, who showed no emotion in their first fights and were in complete control of their mental states.
Dude is lucky he's still alive tbh.
ETA - And even if he does give into the Dark Side, dude fucking yells 'TRAITOR' at Finn with a terrifying amount of emotion. He's not in control of shit. Compare him to Vader or Dooku or Maul, who showed no emotion in their first fights and were in complete control of their mental states.
Stick with this analogy IMO. I like it, and don't really disagree with it. >_>
riskybusinesstomcruise
Member
We'll have to agree to disagree I suppose. Everything else about him points to him being reckless and unrefined IMO.
Threads moving at light speed, so I'm probably late, but Jeremy Jahn's spoiler review is a great watch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWbbzZa0vJ4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWbbzZa0vJ4
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Nah man. I'm really not. He's mentally compromised all movie, because he's mentally compromised period.
It becomes worse during that fight after catching multiple injuries incurred via his sloppiness as exhibited by his tantrum throwing throughout the movie when he doesn't get his way when he wants it. The fight isn't contextless, although you keep trying to present it as such. His behavior in that fight is set up by the entire movie, and it's paid off during that fight, and not in the way you're trying to present. He loses control multiple times, he's confused, he's desperate, he's literally (and I do mean literally) slippin.
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