[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens - It's True. All of it.

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After sleep, I change my opinion about this movie, it isn't mediocre like I said, it's bad.

But the good point that somebody already had said is that the next movies have a lot of potential. In the new movies they can do new things and actually the movie can have some new plot, and this is exciting because Abrams is not a bad director doing new things, but is a terrible director doing remakes.

I think most people agree with you that this is a really bad movie and Abrams is a hack, so you can feel secure in that at least

/s

Not that I'm not excited for VIII
 
Look it's fine to have your own opinion and such but multiple people in this thread have tried to explain to you what's going on in the movie to the point where it feels like you just got your head stuck in the sand and you're screaming NOOOOO at the top of your lungs.

1. Ren kills his dad, he's emotionally conflicted in that scene almost to the point of crying like a baby. Then he kills him, basically going over the point of no return, all the way into the darkness. This definitely will affect him for a while (not just 10 seconds).
2. He gets hit by a fucking bowcaster bolt to the stomach after Chewie rages.
3. Then he gets hurt in the Finn encounter.
4. He then fights Rey, who is at that point unhurt, finding out that she's got potential in controlling/using the force and is angry because he killed Han and hurt Chewie/Finn.

There's multiple scenes in the movie seeing that this guy is clearly not "stable".
What do you think just committing patricide and getting fucked up by a bowcaster round getting hurt in a lightsaber fight does to a person that's not "entirely stable"

IT MAKES 'EM EVEN MORE UNSTABLE, hence: mentally compromised.

I'm sorry but you're just wrong....

Don't forget how easily Chewie got his shot in. He could've easily deflected that shot, or even froze it like he did earlier. He's still in shock after killing his dad.
 
This Ren vs Rey discussion has been going on forever.

....Boy is it nice to have something new to discuss rather than how bad the prequels are.

Anakin was clearly not mentally compromised during his duel with Obi-wan in Episode III. It's clear as day that he was nothing but stable.
 
Ren is the new Anakin. It's clear what they were going for. He'll probably beat the shit out of Rey in 8 and either lose to Finn/Rey in 9 or turn back to the light side.

Ren will almost certainly get more vicious and brutal as the movies go on. They'll probably save the Force Choke for some climatic moment to show how he's become like Darth Vader.
 
I can't wait for him to tell you guys to go see the movie again.

To be fair, I did the same thing to him, but only because I figured a read as surface-level (and wrong) as his could only come from having not really paid attention on a single viewing.

But then he said he's seen it twice, so that's my bad.
 
Ren is the new Anakin. It's clear what they were going for. He'll probably beat the shit out of Rey in 8 and either lose to Finn/Rey in 9 or turn back to the light side.

Ren will almost certainly get more vicious and brutal as the movies go on. They'll probably save the Force Choke for some climatic moment to show how he's become like Darth Vader.

It's interesting that they've started with the fall, tease a rise, then destroy that entirely.
 
This Ren vs Rey discussion has been going on forever.

....Boy is it nice to have something new to discuss rather than how bad the prequels are.

Honestly, I think it's because the prequels were so bad that we got this movie.

I swear, some of the writing in here is because JJ Abram's watched the Plinkett Reviews 20 times and made sure everything mentioned in those reviews was in here. It's very difficult for me to believe that this is the same dude that made Into Darkness.
 
Okay i liked the movie but it was exactly as bobby said a

A greatest hits, 3 members of the 77 line up of the band is back with new members, classic hits re-recorded by this line up with some new tracks as a bonus.

If i could sum it up in one sentence pinching Bobbys idea it would be:

Now Thats What I Call Star Wars

(thats for the brit fans here, not sure if you get it in the rest of the world but we have a ongoing hits collection called 'now thats what i call music' since the 80's and there are many spin ofs such as now thats what i call punk, now thats what i call christmas etc)


I was satisfied, but a lot of questions unanswered which is fine, because i'll make them up in my head.

Now i just hope to see JJ's 10 deleted scenes on the bluray

I hope we get something like

Kanja klub extended
Captain phasma makes a getaway or is she in a garbage chute somewhere?
A longer Maz Kanatas castle scene
That knight(mares) of Renscene (that cool looking rain shot that was in the trailer of the knights of ren, was kind of wasted in TFA , a blink and you missed it shot, i'd like to get a extended look)
More Dameron
Luke training Jedis as mentioned in the movie
More of Kylo Ben goes beserk moments
Alternate ending
Alternate opening which i believe was story boarded differently right?

Oh that damn opening shot i dont know if it was just my cinema but it was so dark i couldnt see the spaceship at first maybe a vague outline, that was something that i didnt like.
 
It's not even about the fight with Rey or the outcome or any of that. It's just about Ren's character and his internal struggle; it's about Driver's acting. It's not about what he does in the abstract (kills Han), it's how he does it, why he does it, and how he feels after he does it. Driver oozes internal conflict in both his face and voice, I can't type it out.

As a visual note though, his hands are shaking when giving Han his light-saber. I got the sense he was doubting himself over what to do until the very last minute.
 
Do we reckon the Seven Samurais of Ren shot in the rain is in the past or the future? I didn't even consider the latter until my friend brought it up and I see no reason why it couldn't be.
 
The path to the dark side is Fear -> Anger -> Hate -> Dark Side. I get the sense that Ren struggles to get past fear and anger. There's not enough hate.
 
Ren will be seen building his strength and ultimately slaughtering people like Hux in the first half of VIII, and then we will see him in full dark mode foe the second half of it and the first half of IX. Then he'll have his light side breakthrough and fight alongside the heroes for the remainder.

Then my tired insistence that he is a co-lead in the following trilogy comes into play.
 
Captain phasma makes a getaway or is she in a garbage chute somewhere?

Well that garbage chute would be residing in the center of a sun, so I would hope she escaped.

Do we reckon the Seven Samurais of Ren shot in the rain is in the past or the future? I didn't even consider the latter until my friend brought it up and I see no reason why it couldn't be.

That's interesting. I hadn't thought of that.
 
To be fair, I did the same thing to him, but only because I figured a read as surface-level (and wrong) as his could only come from having not really paid attention on a single viewing.

But then he said he's seen it twice, so that's my bad.

The fact that hes mentally unstable doesn't fix any of the problems with that scene though. He's still up against two characters with no accounted track record of lightsaber dueling whatsoever.
 
It's not even about the fight with Rey or the outcome or any of that. It's just about Ren's character and his internal struggle; it's about Driver's acting. It's not about what he does in the abstract (kills Han), it's how he does, why he does, and how he feels after he does it. Driver oozes internal conflict in both his face and voice.

Dude is a damn fine actor. Shit, there wasn't a weak link. Maz in particular was a fucking spectacular mo-cap/vocal performance. I really want a KOTR style film with her and Yoda in it now.
 
Nah man. I'm really not. He's mentally compromised all movie, because he's mentally compromised period.

It becomes worse during that fight after catching multiple injuries incurred via his sloppiness as exhibited by his tantrum throwing throughout the movie when he doesn't get his way when he wants it. The fight isn't contextless, although you keep trying to present it as such. His behavior in that fight is set up by the entire movie, and it's paid off during that fight, and not in the way you're trying to present. He loses control multiple times, he's confused, he's desperate, he's literally (and I do mean literally) slippin.

I tend to agree with you although you might just be arguing semantics at this point. What does it really mean to be mentally compromised? Clearly Ren's brain is functioning 100% during the fight. Can a bad mindset be enough to classify him as mentally compromised?

Regardless I would argue that his mental state definitely effects his performance. It's difficult to do your best if you're conflicted about what you're doing. I mean sports psychology is a real thing. Sports teams don't spend millions of dollars on voodoo. At the end of the day a lightsaber fight is just a fencing match.
 
I don't think that was the problem with the prequels though. The problem was they were god awful. Of course there has to be a thematic through line but seeing something original would have been more exciting. We can always go back and watch A New Hope - why do we need to see that remade with modern filmmaking techniques?

The idea was for the film to be a call back to what started it all. I don't agree that it's a remake, at least not to the extent that many are implying but it hitting the plot points across the board of the OT was definitely intended to elicit a "here we go again!" in a positive manner for the viewers. TFA does just enough to get there while also being different enough to be a solid base for things to expand in new and different ways. Remember that the goal of this movie is primarily to jump start a new period of Star Wars across all media. There's plenty of room for new and different across of the new stuff they've got planned.
 
Do we reckon the Seven Samurais of Ren shot in the rain is in the past or the future? I didn't even consider the latter until my friend brought it up and I see no reason why it couldn't be.
Hmm. I thought it was a flashback but maybe it was some kind of premonition. The force can do that I suppose. Sidious forseen some shit.
 
I still can't believe they fucked up so bad by having Ren unmask before the bridge scene. Just sort of ruined Ren unmasking due to his father requesting it. They could have had the entire movie build up to what Ren looks like under the mask and they blew their load too early.
 
Ren is the new Anakin. It's clear what they were going for. He'll probably beat the shit out of Rey in 8 and either lose to Finn/Rey in 9 or turn back to the light side.

Ren will almost certainly get more vicious and brutal as the movies go on. They'll probably save the Force Choke for some climatic moment to show how he's become like Darth Vader.

I don't know. I wouldn't be THAT surprised if IX is redeemed Ben VS fallen Rey.
 
I think most people agree with you that this is a really bad movie and Abrams is a hack, so you can feel secure in that at least

/s

Not that I'm not excited for VIII
I just realized the new movies are being made by others directors, but also not very excited about the others. Man this isn't looking any good.
 
All the talks of Rey being Luke's daughter. That's what they planned all along. Keep us speculating until VIII hits.

I though wonder which context Luke's quote from one of the trailers fits in.
(The Force is strong in my family. My father has it. I have it. My sister has it. You have that power, too.)
Seems to imply he's talking to a child of his, but with the reveal of Ren/Ben being his nephew it could also be Luke talking to him. Some kind of teasing the relation between Luke and the main adversary of TFA.
 
I kinda hope we also see him physically changing (next to having facial scarring).
Seeing as he's gone off the deep end (patricide) and giving in to his anger/rage/insecurities, I hope the dark side consumes him and he actually will look different because of it (just don't give him "evil eyes" like they gave Anakin in the PT).
 
Anakin was clearly not mentally compromised during his duel with Obi-wan in Episode III. It's clear as day that he was nothing but stable.
Let me stop you here before you make the grave mistake of assuming the prequels are not only logical and internally consistent, but consistent with the rest of the Star Wars series as well.
 
It's not even about the fight with Rey or the outcome or any of that. It's just about Ren's character and his internal struggle; it's about Driver's acting. It's not about what he does in the abstract (kills Han), it's how he does, why he does, and how he feels after he does it. Driver oozes internal conflict in both his face and voice.

One thing I was conflicted about on this movie is the choice to use Driver as the actor at all. Visually, my image of Kylo Ren was just shattered when he took off his mask. He just...looks like such a child. Not literally, but, he's so young, his face looks so normal and kinda innocent. Even his voice is soft and maybe even a bit whiny. Guy just looked like he's straight out of highschool.

At first I was like "He does not look menacing at all" But again, it's like JJ Abrams watched the Plinkett reviews, and now I see it as a parallel to how they revealed Vader to be a sickly old man. Given how his character arc is about how he isn't the heartless badass he desperately wants to be, now I think that this was a very good choice, because his general character conflict is visually represented just by that one scene where he took off the mask. He wants to be Vader 2.0 and he's just...not. That's good film-making.

But it's really easy to believe it's the same dude who made Star Trek 09. Because it's essentially the same flick.

You know, this really doesn't inspire good feelings about Episode 8 then.
 
I still can't believe they fucked up so bad by having Ren unmask before the bridge scene. Just sort of ruined Ren unmasking due to his father requesting it. They could have had the entire movie build up to what Ren looks like under the mask and they blew their load too early.

Pay-off would've sucked. 'Oh look, he has no scars whatsoever and is just a guy.'

I mean if he took the mask off and he was scarred to shit and Han went 'Ben...' and touched his face and then Ben killed him, maybe. But I'm positive the audience would've laughed if they did the reveal and it was just a guy.
 
I still can't believe they fucked up so bad by having Ren unmask before the bridge scene. Just sort of ruined Ren unmasking due to his father requesting it. They could have had the entire movie build up to what Ren looks like under the mask and they blew their load too early.

Agreed.
 
Hmm. I thought it was a flashback but maybe it was some kind of premonition. The force can do that I suppose. Sidious forseen some shit.
Well the flashback ends on Rey at the snowy forest on Star Killer so it is possible. I couldn't make out the dialogue though, I did hear something about the first child though.
 
The swordsmanship complaints are absurd. Luke more than held his own against Vader in their first matchup and Vader had absurd levels of training.

Vader is clearly toying with Luke; he fights Luke one handed and dominates him for the majority of the fight. He disarms Luke once, pushes him into the carbonite chamber, force gangbangs him with debris, flings him out a window, and ultimately cuts his hand off. All while dominating the fight. Luke gets in one lucky graze while Vader is bulldogging him, then Vader goes all out and dismembers him pretty much immediately. I'd hardly say Luke holds his own in that match up.
 
The pacing in this movie absolutely destroys Return of the Jedi. Sitting in the theater, I was never thinking to myself, why is this scene in the movie... everything just flows. It moves as quick as any movie I've seen, save for Mad Max which hit the ground running like it was the 3rd act.

I'm willing to put this as behind Episodes 4 and 5... temporarily and this will probably change after further viewings when it will eventually settle somewhere.
 
Maybe I missed something in the last 38 years of Star Wars movies, but isn't the whole point of the Dark Side that you give into negative emotions? Even taking the stance that Ren was "fully" turned to the Dark Side after killing Han, it still solidifies the fact that he was mentally compromised. That's what the Dark Side is.

The last time we saw a dark force user faced with a bittersweet family reunion, he threw the fuckin' emperor down a giant pit.
 
A truely fallen Rey would actually make her interesting.

I think they were going that direction when she lashed out at Ben at the end. Seemed clear that she's using her anger to overcome him.

My prediction is that she'll fall to the dark side and Ben will pull her back to the light but die in the process.
 
Pay-off would've sucked. 'Oh look, he has no scars whatsoever and is just a guy.'

I mean if he took the mask off and he was scarred to shit and Han went 'Ben...' and touched his face and then Ben killed him, maybe. But I'm positive the audience would've laughed if they did the reveal and it was just a guy.

This entire film you see him being a monster and underneath it, he's just a normal kid. Would have been absolutely amazing in conjunction with Han calling him Ben.
 
Just saw the movie and I was pretty impressed I must say, alltough...

SPOILER:

It pretty much felt like a ANH 2.0 or better...a movie you would get if you fuse 4,5, and 6 together.

We have...Han Solo as the new Ben Kenobi, Rey who doesn't know she's a jedi, awesome pilot 2.0, a new desert planet (Jukka = Tatooine), a new djungle planet, a new Ice planet (Starkiller base = Hoth), a new deathstar (3.0 *cough*), a new vader (lol), the falcon, the bring-down-the-shield-moment and blow something up so someone can fly inside the deathstar and blow it up, y- and x-wings attacking a whole planet and blowing it up, a rebel base on a djungle planet, a rebel control-room with dimmed lights, a new droid, a new bar with a new band singing there, shall I continue?

Other than that 9/10
 
Let me stop you here before you make the grave mistake of assuming the prequels are not only logical and internally consistent, but consistent with the rest of the Star Wars series as well.
I was poking fun at the guy who thinks Ren was mentally stable during the Finn/Rey fight.
 
After sleep, I change my opinion about this movie, it isn't mediocre like I said, it's bad.

But the good point that somebody already had said is that the next movies have a lot of potential. In the new movies they can do new things and actually the movie can have some new plot, and this is exciting because Abrams is not a bad director doing new things, but is a terrible director doing remakes.


I've got something to tell you that you don't want to hear: you're not going to enjoy the next movie, the one after that and potentially any subsequent film.

Why?

Because Episode VII represents what Disney thinks a Star Wars film should be -- scenes of high-intensity action strung together by somber moments with expensive CGI, excellent sound design and a bombastic score. Themes of at least the mainline Star Wars films will never get more complicated than the fairytale-esque presentation on display in Episodes IV-VII.

And I say this as someone who loves Episode VII.
 
Should the 5-6 other people arguing with you see it again too?

Apparently so considering a number of you are making factually incorrect statements.

No that's the complete opposite point the film was making. Killing Han was supposed to be this tremendously vindicating moment for him where he would transform into a full-fledged dark sider and have perfect clarity/solace in what he was doing. Except the complete opposite happened for him, which is why he has such great potential for future films because he's not just this pure evil villain. He doesn't snicker or laugh at Han for trusting him after stabbing him, there's no quip or insult. He's even more confused and distraught, just see his reaction after Han reaches out with love to caress his cheek. He does not look or express a sense of steadfast devotion. This 'final' act was not the liberating switch he hoped it would be.

That leads to him begging with Rey, although now that I think about it, pleading is much better. He was pleading with her, and it's all in the acting so I can't do much more than point it out. But it's a great parallel to his own decisions/journey, he's basically asking her to follow his own path, to affirm that he's made the right choice, he's asking her because he himself is unsure, he's trying to convince himself more than he's trying to convince her.

I think it's rather shallow you think Ren would have to react like a cartoon villain to signify he made his choice and was sticking to it. The dude his killed his father. No doubt he will reflect on that later, but it wasn't clouding his mind or interfering with his ability to fight, which is the entire point of the argument: that he was mentally compromised in that duel, of which there is no evidence.

Begging, pleading - both are just horribly inaccurate mischaracterisations of that exchange. Ren offered to teach her the ways of the Force as he understood them - because he had the upperhand. Maybe he was trying to deceive her to carry out Snoke's orders, or maybe he was genuine, but whatever it was, you're projecting shit that just isn't there. There isn't a frame of self doubt in Ren until Rey starts to overpower him.

Look it's fine to have your own opinion and such but multiple people in this thread have tried to explain to you what's going on in the movie to the point where it feels like you just got your head stuck in the sand and you're screaming NOOOOO at the top of your lungs.

1. Ren kills his dad, he's emotionally conflicted in that scene almost to the point of crying like a baby. Then he kills him, basically going over the point of no return, all the way into the darkness. This definitely will affect him for a while (not just 10 seconds).
2. He gets hit by a fucking bowcaster bolt to the stomach after Chewie rages.
3. Then he gets hurt in the Finn encounter.
4. He then fights Rey, who is at that point unhurt, finding out that she's got potential in controlling/using the force and is angry because he killed Han and hurt Chewie/Finn.

There's multiple scenes in the movie seeing that this guy is clearly not "stable".
What do you think just committing patricide and getting fucked up by a bowcaster round getting hurt in a lightsaber fight does to a person that's not "entirely stable"

IT MAKES 'EM EVEN MORE UNSTABLE, hence: mentally compromised.

I'm sorry but you're just wrong....

Neither you nor anyone else had provided any evidence of any kind that Ren was suffering of some kind of mental anguish that compromised his ability to fight.

You keep telling me that I am wrong whilst making baseless claims and factually incorrect statements.

Pain from wounds and anger doesn't mean he is unhinged. It doesn't mean he can't fight without maintaing his form - which he obviously did.

I'm not wrong about this.

But whatever, I have to go to work so I'll revisit this topic later.
 
Lol bottom of the page, no thank you.
Hmm. I thought it was a flashback but maybe it was some kind of premonition. The force can do that I suppose. Sidious forseen some shit.
Well the flashback ends on Rey at the snowy forest on Star Killer so it is possible. I couldn't make out the dialogue though, I did hear something about the first child though.
 
Oh! Oh! Oh! I know I just said that there's really nothing I'm legitimately disappointed with in this movie, but I just realized, CAPTAIN PHASMA.

You'll excuse me for forgetting about her because, honestly, the movie did too.

What a bummer.
 
I still can't believe they fucked up so bad by having Ren unmask before the bridge scene. Just sort of ruined Ren unmasking due to his father requesting it. They could have had the entire movie build up to what Ren looks like under the mask and they blew their load too early.
It would have been a huge anticlimax. He looks like a kid. Better for him to have unmasked in front of his main rival.
 
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