[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens - It's True. All of it.

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foxtrot3d said:
I'm just the opposite I don't believe Rey had any arc in the movie but at least Finn had one, albeit a sudden and weak one. He's a loser who was barely a functioning Stormtrooper and wanted nothing but to leave all that crap behind but decide in the end to help and become a hero. The Han Solo arc if you will.

What's worse for Rey is that the film is hell bent on capturing some classic SW imagery while with her character, especially on Jakku, but doesn't understand how those images run directly against her character. For instance:

Let's look at this classic image from ANH:

SW_binary_sunset.png


I don't think I need to tell you what this image is supposed to make the audience feel, it encompasses Luke's internal struggle with wanting nothing more than to leave his backwater home and his familial obligations. All he wants to do is leave home and experience some adventures but he feels trapped on Tattooine.

Now, let's look at a similar scene in TFA:

rey-1_6d8068e2.jpeg


Star-Wars-7-Trailer-3-Rey-Views-Ship-in-Distance-on-Jakku.jpg


So, in this scene a few things happen and Rey does a few things that later make no sense as we learn a few things about her character. You see we're told by her that she is waiting for someone on Jakku, in fact that's all she can talk about and all she wants is to get back there in the film to keep waiting. However, that entire sequence portrays the exact opposite and instead invokes feelings similar to Luke of a character who wants nothing more than to leave Jakku. We see her put on a classic Rebel Fighter helmet as if she wishes to secretly join the Resistance and get mixed up in space adventures (you know like Luke) and the camera focus on her as she watches a ship transport leave. Again, such an image invokes the idea that she would want nothing more than to leave the planet, however, we know now that she wants to do just the opposite.

Thus, wouldn't it make more sense in that scene if she was intently watching a starship arrive on Jakku, hopelessly believing that this is the ship the person or people she is waiting for have returned? You know that classic feeling as a kid when you were waiting for someone to arrive and thus every car was that car or no, no, its definitely this car driving slowly.
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As with a lot of this movie, it's an exact parallel to a New Hope. Luke wants to leave Tattooine, but his obligations to his family keep him grounded. I have no doubt Rey HATES Jakku and wants to leave, but her strong belief that her family will come and take her away from there is what's grounding her.

It isn't until she goes on this big adventure that she finally realizes that her family is not coming for her and she needs to start guiding her own future.
 
Fine Ham Abounds said:
Finn will get his chance. It was a setup with the payoff obviously being later. I guarantee Finn will somehow be the thing that keeps Rey from turning to the dark side, and that he will have a reckoning with Kylo Ren before he turns back to the light at the end.
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There's totally going to be some sort of showdown between him and Ren before this trilogy is concluded.
 
I would like to be first to say that I think either Poe or Finn, or both... are gay.

I'm sure this will not be a popular opinion, but I honestly think Disney/Kennedy et al are going there.

Anyone with me?
 
RobbieNick said:
As with a lot of this movie, it's an exact parallel to a New Hope. Luke wants to leave Tattooine, but his obligations to his family keep him grounded. I have no doubt Rey HATES Jakku and wants to leave, but her strong belief that her family will come and take her away from there is what's grounding her.

It isn't until she goes on this big adventure that she finally realizes that her family is not coming for her and she needs to start guiding her own future.
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My pet theory is that she secretly hopes that Luke is her father, that's why she seeks him out in the end. It would be kind of a shame if her obsession with reuniting with her parents was just dropped in the second film.
 
OricWindstar said:
I don't that makes him a bitch, I think that just shows that he's scared. He runs off to Snoke, who is basically his new father figure, not to say "fix this for me", but rather just seeks guidance. He wants to handle it himself, he tells Snoke he'll do it. He's not used to being violated in that way and, as he is in a particularly vulnerable state with his pull between light and dark, it makes sense he's shaken by someone summing up his life in one sentence.

I feel like the whole point of Kylo is that he wants to be perceived as a Vader type, but behind the mask he's a scared kid not sure if he can commit to the path he's chosen. And that to me is really interesting, especially going forward.

I do agree, I wish they had revealed her lineage and been done with it. I still find her to be a good lead as, while her backstop may remain a mystery, her arc as a character is not and it ends with a defining choice on her part. She's chosen to embrace her calling and leave behind her past of waiting.
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That's why he comes off as a whiny and boring, Vader knew he was bad, if Rey told Vader he's afraid of his light side he'd tell her "Maybe, but I've done some bad shit, so fuck that", he wouldn't have gone to the emperor so he could stroke his whimsy ego and tell him he's a big boy.

That's why Kylo is annoying, he's not a big boy, he's a child, he acts like one and the movie didn't give us any reason as to why Snoke has any real influence over him, in general his character isn't properly developed, he just comes off as an insecure brat with a lot of power and shitty attitude, and that's mile away from the confident Vader that just wrecked shit up, he was evil, he was mad, he let his emotions get to him, but he knew why, and so did we.
 
I just saw the movie and I would say the motivations for the characters wasn't bad but the arcs just didn't seem that good.

Finn being a Stormtrooper assigned to sanitation before doing his first field duties seems like something out of a Mel Brooks film. I would have almost wanted him to have plenty of field experience and be a great Stormtrooper, but something about Jakku made him be a 'good guy' and doing the 'right thing.'

Rey's arc I thought was fine -- I don't mind that she knows how to pilot the Millennium Falcon AND starts having Force sensitivity during the film. But introducing the prospect of her being tempted by the Dark Side was a bit much too. I liked that she had a strong reaction to Luke Skywalker's lightsaber. I'm hoping Episode 8 will have more of her having vivid flashbacks/memories and she learns to channel that.

Kylo Ren's scene with Han Solo I thought was extremely touching and I actually cried. I didn't mind his lightsaber tantrums because it fits with his character -- he's a raw, scared angry young man who has more power than he knows what to do with it. I'm hoping in Episode 8 he does become full on Vader and there's a lightsaber duel with General Leia (unless Carrie Fisher isn't up to doing any lightsaber duels). His duel with Rey was great and emotional and I actually clapped when Rey Force grabbed the saber.

Episode 8 has a lot to build on and I actually would want to see a "Special Edition" with the cut footage from Episode 7.
 
Just came back from a second viewing. For me it holds up as well as the first. Even the scene with Solo's death was just as tense as it was the first time. I just really really enjoy this movie.

Interesting thing I forgot from the first showing was that when Kylo Ren is trying to get info out of Rey, he mentions the ocean and the island that Rey ends up finding Luke on.
 
If there is going to be any romance in the trilogy, chances are high it's between Rey and Finn. It's perfectly possible there isn't any though.
 
civilstrife said:
I would like to be first to say that I think either Poe or Finn, or both... are gay.

I'm sure this will not be a popular opinion, but I honestly think Disney/Kennedy et al are going there.

Anyone with me?
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Few people already brought that up a actually.

Finn is clearly smitten with Rey.

I could see Poe being gay though.
 
civilstrife said:
I would like to be first to say that I think either Poe or Finn, or both... are gay.

I'm sure this will not be a popular opinion, but I honestly think Disney/Kennedy et al are going there.

Anyone with me?
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Finn was crushing on Rey hard dude. What are you talking about?

Why can't two guys have a bromance without being gay?
 
Sesuadra said:
About Snoke, our Supreme Leader

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqpy8YYQ2-I sounds really close to the Snoke Theme
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_zb3HWTwAY
is snoke a reborn Darth Plagueis?

some of you probably already talked about it and i missed it ^^"..
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I Kinda hope he is, and that he impregnated Anakin's mom using the force.
That way we'll have an explanation as to why Kylo is so into Vader and why he looks up to Snoke even while his name sounds like something you cuddle with when you got to sleep.
 
Kieli said:
I thought it was, unfortunately, a very classic (and very boring) Disney story beat.

We have 10 minutes left before the Helicarr - I mean Death Star - blows the planet up. Quick, let's have our superher - I mean Jedi/scoundrels + chewbaccas - take out the critical engine component at just the last minute!

Hooray! The world is saved again!
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Yeah...that's a little how I felt. The Starkiller was so huge and so impressive, but gets blown up by 10 xwings...kind of disappointing.
 
Meowster said:
Ben isn't weak. He's pathetic as a person and a total wannabe but the dude has some mad powers, the freezing time stuff was unreal. He was also way more emotionally and physically damaged than any other person was in the middle of a saber fight. He's gonna wreck them up once he learns to handle his instability (or learns to better tap into it).
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This, you can see Ren breaking down as the movie goes on and he becomes more unstable which I can imagine isn't good for any force powers, light or dark. Notice his voice gets weaker with his mask off as the movie goes on. By the time the final lightsaber battle occurs he's killed his one father (which causes more conflict in his head) and gets shot in the stomach by Chewie. He's clearly not 100% physically or mentally. He's also kind of a poser Darth Vader and is frustrated that he's not as powerful as Vader. I like that he's a flawed villain.
 
Carbonox said:
Just came back from a second viewing. For me it holds up as well as the first. Even the scene with Solo's death was just as tense as it was the first time. I just really really enjoy this movie.

Interesting thing I forgot from the first showing was that when Kylo Ren is trying to get info out of Rey, he mentions the ocean and the island that Rey ends up finding Luke on.
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oh dang you're right. forgot about that
 
Except I'm missing something, but how exactly did Rey defeat Kylo Ren in that fight. This was supposed to be her first time using a lightsaber. Did she tap into the force or something?
 
Thought the film was really good.

I enjoyed the new characters and I'm on the side that really liked Adam Driver's Kylo.

I didn't like how Kylo was chumped by Ray after she had used the Force for like, an hour max, though.

I'm open to the theory that explained her Force powers being suppressed by Luke at a young age to protect her from the Knights and Andy Serkis. Whatever the case, I really want to see her get wrecked in the sequel somehow. Bringing her down a peg or two would make building her back up for the 3rd movie that much cooler.

And I really want Finn to be Force sensitive as well.
 
-tetsuo- said:
I don't think anyone was surprised at that happening lol. He stopped a blaster bolt mid air and force pulled a full grown man to himself earlier in the film. I don't think a lightsaber is much of a deal. She and he were both pulling at the same time and if you had been paying attention to anything Rey had been doing the entire movie, you knew she was gong to win.
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If they're both pulling it in the same direction at the same time, why didn't it immediately get tugged out of the snow?

SixMachine said:
I think it would be extremely strange if he was struggling to pull the lightsaber. He has the ability to stop a blaster shot and bind people. Force pull is one of the lowest skills on the heirarchy compared to something like force blaster defense. I think Rey interrupting his force pull makes much more sense.
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That's now how Force Abilities work. They're not tiered like that and being strong at using The Force one way doesn't mean you'll be that strong at using it other ways. The mental state of the Force user at the time also affects their abilities.

Jarmel said:
That's what midichlorian counts are for! Jokes aside, prior to this film, a person needed serious training to be competent with the Force. Anakin was literally Force Jesus and he still got beat by people with loads more experience than him. Obi-Wan was presumably nowhere near as powerful as Anakin and he still cut the dude in half and left him burning. Prior to Rey, the Force was space magic that you had to largely earn. Yes there were elements that a person could do subconsciously that made them a better pilot or mechanic but it also wasn't so simple that you could literally pick up in a day.
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Being strong in The Force doesn't mean you'll be the better fighter. Obi-Wan was consistently shown to be a better duelist than he was a Force User (Qui Gon is both stronger in The Force and far more experienced than Obi, yet is defeated by Darth Maul while Obi is able to cut Darth Maul in half). Anakin is shown as utilizing his Force abilities in combat to much better effect than Obi-Wan does (this is mostly shown in TCW but is also illustrated in their battle in RotS). Yoda is the strongest and (I believe) oldest Jedi in The Council yet he loses his duel with Palpatine while Mace, effectively Yoda's Second in Command, won.

The Force supplements abilities but the profeciency that each Force user has is not equal to their total Force potential or even their training. Not every strong Force user has Force Visions, for example. Some Force users are more adept at supplementing their Saber attacks, others use it to supplement acrobatics more effectively, some manipulate their surroundings more effectively... etc..

The Force is not unlike Athleticism. Some people are naturally more athletic than others. This can be refined or in some cases made up for with experience and training but even experience and training doesn't automatically result in being better at a given task. Likewise the opposite can be true, where sheer potential can be enormous but lack of training, focus, or emotional turmoil can result in a more experienced and better trained Force user winning.
 
tkato said:
That's why he comes off as a whiny and boring, Vader knew he was bad, if Rey told Vader he's afraid of his light side he'd tell her "Maybe, but I've done some bad shit, so fuck that", he wouldn't have gone to the emperor so he could stroke his whimsy ego and tell him he's a big boy.

That's why Kylo is annoying, he's not a big boy, he's a child, he acts like one and the movie didn't give us any reason as to why Snoke has any real influence over him, it's something, in general his character isn't properly developed, he just comes off as an insecure brat with a lot of power and shitty attitude, and that's mile away from the confident Vader that just wrecked shit up, he was evil, he was mad, he let his emotions get to him, but he knew why, and so did we.
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He isn't Vader, but that's a good thing. I think you're also forgetting we had no idea why Vader was so evil in the first movie. He works really well, as he's perfect evil foil to our "aw-shucks" hero of Luke, but we don't really have any motivation for him in ANH outside of him working for the Empire. Kylo is much deeper than Vader was initially, not to say one is better than the other.

Maybe this is just me, but I like having villains who don't have their shit figured out. I want to watch the villains grow with the heroes, so for me Kylo is perfect in his imperfection. A, for me, a brat just whines until he gets his way. Kylo takes very clear steps to get want he wants. He seeks guidance, sure, but Kylo isn't waiting around for people to do things for him.
 
jrush64 said:
Except I'm missing something, but how exactly did Rey defeat Kylo Ren in that fight. This was supposed to be her first time using a lightsaber. Did she tap into the force or something?
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First time using a lightsaber doesn't mean first time using a melee weapon.
 
Apdiddy said:
Finn being a Stormtrooper assigned to sanitation before doing his first field duties seems like something out of a Mel Brooks film. I would have almost wanted him to have plenty of field experience and be a great Stormtrooper, but something about Jakku made him be a 'good guy' and doing the 'right thing.'
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I believe Phasma mentions that it was one of his first times out on the field and he just couldn't bring himself to gun down innocents.

MMarston said:
First time using a lightsaber doesn't mean first time using a melee weapon.
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Yup. She was pretty good with that staff.
 
RobbieNick said:
As with a lot of this movie, it's an exact parallel to a New Hope. Luke wants to leave Tattooine, but his obligations to his family keep him grounded. I have no doubt Rey HATES Jakku and wants to leave, but her strong belief that her family will come and take her away from there is what's grounding her.

It isn't until she goes on this big adventure that she finally realizes that her family is not coming for her and she needs to start guiding her own future.
Click to expand...

I think you're missing the point. The Tattoine sunset scene works BECAUSE we have been Luke the entire movie up that point and we actually see and hear his struggles, the scene is the culmination of all those internal struggles as he wishes for a better life. Now, with Rey we don't know anything about her with the time we are with her on Jakku. We don't know that she's been abandoned, we don't know what she is doing on Jakku, we don't know why she has to salvage parts for food. Thus, when we get to that scene we can only draw upon the knowledge of what we have seen up until that point and perhaps our prior SW knowledge in order to interpret her feelings.

As a result, as an audience member, we all believed that she wanted to leave the planet at that point. Her life sucks, she barely makes enough money to feed herself, and Jakku seems like Tattoine 2.0. Thus, when we are later told she wants nothing more than to go back there and keep waiting it runs in direct opposition to what we were shown earlier. It's not like Luke saying, "I can't leave I gotta help Uncle Ben with the harvest," while we know internally he wants nothing more to leave. With Rey it was never setup properly that she wants to leave and thus her revelation that she actually is all about waiting on the planet feels weird.
 
jrush64 said:
Except I'm missing something, but how exactly did Rey defeat Kylo Ren in that fight. This was supposed to be her first time using a lightsaber. Did she tap into the force or something?
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did you miss the scene where she closes her eyes and let the force flow through her?
Kylo says "I can teach you to use the force" and she remembers Maz words and concentrates on the force and kicks his ass

tkato said:
I Kinda hope he is, and that he impregnated Anakin's mom using the force.
That way we'll have an explanation as to why Kylo is so into Vader and why he looks up to Snoke even while his name sounds like something you cuddle with when you got to sleep.
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:D like the song is as close to a 1:1 copy as it can get, right?
and damn no one reacts to the songs!
 
jrush64 said:
Except I'm missing something, but how exactly did Rey defeat Kylo Ren in that fight. This was supposed to be her first time using a lightsaber. Did she tap into the force or something?
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Breh she literally closed her eyes and said "the force" before turning it around on him.
 
jrush64 said:
Except I'm missing something, but how exactly did Rey defeat Kylo Ren in that fight. This was supposed to be her first time using a lightsaber. Did she tap into the force or something?
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Kylo Ren had a hole in his stomach, a slash on his shoulder and he was unhinged after murdering his father. He had a bad day and Rey tapped into her new powers and was able to best him.

Safs Safs Safs said:
My mom is still complaining about Han dying. She keeps saying "kill Leia or R2D2"

how would they have gotten killed lol
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Whoa, what is her problem with R2-D2?
 
Carbonox said:
Just came back from a second viewing. For me it holds up as well as the first. Even the scene with Solo's death was just as tense as it was the first time. I just really really enjoy this movie.

Interesting thing I forgot from the first showing was that when Kylo Ren is trying to get info out of Rey, he mentions the ocean and the island that Rey ends up finding Luke on.
Click to expand...

Kinda makes you wonder if Rey was a Jedi already but got her memories erased, she couldn't have had memories of that island if she hadn't been there before, would explain her fast mastery of the force and saber abilities.
 
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