[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens - It's True. All of it.
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
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Eh, it's not nitpicking so much as that's just JJ's directorial style. He's a very fast-paced, impatient director so his films always have... not much "plot holes" but they cut corners when it comes to the little things so that he can nail the big set pieces, the big emotional beats. Hence why the two Star Trek films got "nitpicked" to death... it's not so much that the films are outright awful so much as they just play it really fast and loose with the plot and sometimes things get a little incoherent because of it.
I didn't miss it. I forgot it. I saw it last night, then I went to sleep. Big difference!
OricWindstar
Member
I'm totally down for a gay couple in Star Wars and agree with that kids can handle it, but Finn to me seems pretty straight. His "Do you have a boyfriend?" line pretty much seals that one for me.Children reflect their parents. If the parents are weird about it, so are the kids.
Otherwise, there's like a moment of "But I thought only a man and woman can fall in love."
then it's like: "Oh...ok! Can I have icecream now?"
As a thought experiment, imagine Finn and Poe as being opposite gendered and having the same interactions they have in this movie. Would you be surprised to see them together in the end?
Please have mercy GAF
broncobuster
Banned
Han will return in Han Solo: A Star Wars Story, in theaters 2018. Learn the untold story of Han Solo before he is unquestionably murdered in The Force Awakens.
Tesseract
Banned
but she knows how to fight, i don't see the issue
bububu power levels
The point of that duel was that Kylo's emotional turmoil and his rage/pain at being wounded by Chewie meant he lost the battle of wills with Rey. Rey was calm, she had an Obi-Wan esque meditation moment and then bitchslapped him.
Under different circumstances Kylo might have won but in his weakened state and up against Rey's 'pure' connection to the Force, he lost. Kylo was not able to channel his rage effectively whereas Rey was able to focus and feel the Force.
The One and Done
Member
This was better than ANH IMO. For me it's Empire>TFA>ROTJ>ANH>Haden Christensen
The Elite
BOSS
Yup.
Dude's a Vader fanboy that is only a shell of his idol.
I find that a lot more interesting. I think the sequel will have to do a lot to make him look strong though. He needs to strike back with a vengeance.
I'm not quite sure I get the reasoning as to why she's owning him in the fight though... Kylo knows how to fight too and use the force.
OricWindstar
Member
Yeah, that bummed me out. Kylo Ren's shuttle was the only significantly interesting new ship.
But it was really badass.
Robot Pants
Member
Sheev has a nice ring to it. Maybe they should consider that
I can't imagine he would use a lightsaber as his main weapon and not know how to use it well.
Just saw it. On my phone so no big impressions due to typing issues.
Felt the plot itself was a bit thin and redundant, but the characters made up for it. I'm still not really sure why the First Order even wanted or cared about Luke enough to hunt him down. I also felt there could have been some more world building. How big is the new Republic? Why is the rebellion now the resistance? What are they resisting if the empire is gone and a new Republic established?
Loved Ren as a more unhinged and unstable dark side user. Nice contrast to the past ones we've seen. Definitely want to know more about Rey and Finn. Poe is so damn dreamy and I was getting gay vibes from him too, but I highly doubt they're going there.
Nice to see Ford not dial it in, and I was actually really impressed with what we saw from Fisher. Is she even in the next one? I hope so.
I did think the score was fairly forgettable unfortunately. I can't remember one new theme from it actually. Definitely one of Williams weaker scores imo.
Felt the plot itself was a bit thin and redundant, but the characters made up for it. I'm still not really sure why the First Order even wanted or cared about Luke enough to hunt him down. I also felt there could have been some more world building. How big is the new Republic? Why is the rebellion now the resistance? What are they resisting if the empire is gone and a new Republic established?
Loved Ren as a more unhinged and unstable dark side user. Nice contrast to the past ones we've seen. Definitely want to know more about Rey and Finn. Poe is so damn dreamy and I was getting gay vibes from him too, but I highly doubt they're going there.
Nice to see Ford not dial it in, and I was actually really impressed with what we saw from Fisher. Is she even in the next one? I hope so.
I did think the score was fairly forgettable unfortunately. I can't remember one new theme from it actually. Definitely one of Williams weaker scores imo.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
I'm hoping he plays more of a role than the guy with heart that helps the hero occasionally. I really hope they have better writing/story in store for us.
My personal wish would be to see him feeling useless in the war because he isn't as strong as her and someone else (not sure who) trains him in the ways of the force or some shit but the person training him is evil and Finn becomes...not evil but not good. Just wants to be powerful. And his sense of right/wrong gets warped blahblah while Ray is all light side super jedi training with luke.
In reality though he's going to keep playing second fiddle and look like a punk 9 times out of 10.
Kylo even said she was powerful with the Force. It's what kept her alive this long. But her tapping in at the end, coupled with her anger of seeing Han and (presumably at the time) Finn both getting killed, she's using that rage against Kylo. I said last night, she was channeling the force at the end but in the wrong way, and that's what gave her the upper hand.
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
My only real complaint is that Kylo Ren never feels imposing or scary like Vader. Nobody in the First Order really feels truly powerful and commanding. Hopefully that changes.
I'm thirsty for answers and history now. Really excited for more.
I'm thirsty for answers and history now. Really excited for more.
Tesseract
Banned
Vader used a saber so he does too. He doesn't even know how to build one correctly.
Ghostmaster
Member
I think that people are underestimating the fear that Kylo feels towards Rey ever since he realizes that she is force sensitive.
His face is one of both terror and surprise once she resists his mind reading. Perhaps he is afraid that the Supreme Leader really wants to replace him with her or maybe he realized that she was at the academy when he slaughtered the others.
I guess that him seeing her able to stand up to him coupled with his injuries was enough to completely destabilize him.
Maybe Ben is also used to fighting in more of a combined unit style with the rest of Knights of Ren. It's also implied by Snoke with his 'training' remark that he may not be as experienced or disciplined as the rest despite his power.
Thinking about this makes me really want that 8 vs. 1 or 2 handicap fight between the Knights and Rey & co if it ever happens.
Thinking about this makes me really want that 8 vs. 1 or 2 handicap fight between the Knights and Rey & co if it ever happens.
TheOctodad
Member
Kind of like how he takes charge all the time and handles his emotions so well?
He's a fake it trying to make it guy.
Well yeah, you said it, parents have a part to play. Not every parents are comfortable with this, unfortunately.
Coming off a second viewing it's so painfully obvious this is the case in the film that it baffles me people still question it so adamantly.
Kylo rates himself higher than others around him do. Even Nux thinks he's a fucking potato and it works. It makes Ren much more interesting that he's a work in progress and he's vulnerable.
With all the talk about how Lucas' vision for VII was different than Disney's, I'm wondering if Arndt's script would have been focused on Han, Leia and Luke rather than Finn and Rey. I could imagine it playing out way differently where the story is told from Han's point of view, wandering the galaxy and smuggling while trying to come to terms with his son's fate, and then these young adventurers cross paths and become entangled with him.
Think about it.
Think about it.
so then he's just a garbage villain, which is a far bigger problem than just some dumb power level stuff
Wouldn't/shouldn't that even the ground though? I don't have an issue with Rey holding her own... I have trouble believing she could completely own Kylo.
Kylo's experience/force minus injuries should have balanced out Rey's inexperience and force awakening.
I read somewhere that his saber is unstable because of a broken crystal and that's why he needs that cross guard.
TheOctodad
Member
He's not supposed to. Even the storm troopers don't respect Kylo.
-tetsuo-
Unlimited Capacity
It isn't that. It is that she won yet again in the movie, in yet another field. Master pilot, master mechanic now master swordfighter and force user. It just stacks up and it became more and more bothersome as the movie went on. That was just the final straw. It has nothing to do with Kylo losing. Like I said earlier, her character basically ruined the movie for me. Also like I said earlier, the closing the eyes with the force being uttered right before she turned it around.... good god it doesn't get much worse than that.
Daniel D Lewis couldn't rescue Anakin with that script/dialogue/Lucas.
It doesn't matter how experienced you are with a melee weapon - the guided reflexes that Jedi/Sith/Force users possess is unrivaled by anyone not attuned to the Force. The subtext of the film made it clear that the Force was not Finn's future. The fight between him and Kylo should have been over in two seconds.
I can accept the argument that Rey was able to fare better given that she's apparently an incredibly powerful Force user, but she was still untrained.
And even if you throw out the "Kylo was injured" rationalization, it still doesn't explain why the Force completely fails him when he tried to summon the blue lightsaber - which instead magically ends up in the hands of Rey.
Yeah I can see that. I'm sure with an extra 30 minutes of connecting tissue between some points that flesh everything out but I do think it works visually and logically with some of the cut corners. For example Po escaping and linking back up with the rebels. That could have been shown and there might be some complaints about how jarring it was to suddenly seem flying an x wing shooting stormtroopers up. But it doesn't really need to be shown. It is completely logical he could have escaped on his own. It's a corner cut that I don't really think detracts from the movie.
It is implied visually and literally that Rey is pulling the lightsaber from him. Because it flies into her hand.
An aside, but I've been trying to find out what the track March of the Resistance resembled in John William's previous Star Wars scores.
Then I realized I was looking in the wrong place. It's more reminiscent of a work like Belly of the Steel Beast from The Last Crusade if anything.
Outside of John Williams, maybe Shostakovich.
Then I realized I was looking in the wrong place. It's more reminiscent of a work like Belly of the Steel Beast from The Last Crusade if anything.
Outside of John Williams, maybe Shostakovich.
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
Reposting this from earlier, I really think Maz shouldn't have existed other than just being the cantina's owner, and things should have been reworked to have Leia give Rey the saber. I think it could have worked really well by having Leia arrive during the battle:
1- Stop at the cantina to refill. Maz doesn't exist.
2- Same scenes as in the movie more or less, and the Order and the Resistance arrive (including Leia who was told Han is there) and the big fight happens.
3- Clear shot when we see Leia when the ship's doors open, her holding a blaster, with the visible light saber hanging from her belt. Comes out blasting with others. Eventually loses the blaster and uses the light saber to deflect some lasers and rescue Han in a tight spot, this is how they reunite, add some funny dialogue from Han.
- This is a good way to reunite both characters in the middle of a battle, makes it easy to include some funny dialogue between both while having an action scene, and reminds us that Leia has been pretty bad ass since day one which people tend to forget. Also teases us a little about future revelations considering she has her brother's saber and even uses it.
4- Leia gets another blaster and puts the saber back on her belt, Han and Leia both fight it out, and eventually get in trouble but saved by Rey.
- Shows that both characters are more vulnerable than we might have thought and how it's no longer really their time even if they still have it in them, Leia might have the saber but she prefers to use a blaster (not a jedi), creates a connection between Rey and Leia where Leia gets to see that there might be something familiar about Rey, that she reminds her of herself.
5- The good guys win, the order pulls out.
6- Hours later in an improvised resistance camp on site, Leia meets Rey and Rey is curious about who she is. "The laser sword, that's a Jedi weapon right?" "It was... once" "Luke's? It was Luke's? ... and someone else?" "How do you know this?" "I feel it".
- Leia now knows for sure Rey is force sensitive, that there is more to her.
7- Rey touches the saber and has her vision. Freaks out. Han barges in, Leia asks who is this girl?
- This justifies why Han would take the saber to Rey later, he too now knows there is something about Rey.
8- During the night, Rey is called out, almost trance like, as if Luke is calling to her. She walks out of the location they are staying at, going into the forest. We are led to think she is going to meet Luke, maybe speak to him through the force. We see a robed figure. It's Ren.
- This teases the audience about Luke, we think finally this is it, we'll see Luke. It creates an emotional response in the audience similar to what Rey herself is feeling. It also creates a parallel to Vader who pulled the same kind of trick before, speaking to Luke remotely, emphasizing Ren's dark side.
7- Ren force-freezes her, captures her. Flies away aboard his own ship.
- Like Vader, Ren can pilot his own ship, and he's ready to get down and dirty on his own instead of relying on the storm troopers when they can't do their jobs.
8- Leia gives the saber to Han, saying she feels Rey is meant to have it.
That to me would have worked much better than what we got. Still loved the movie though, just little nitpicks. Maz was the biggest mistake IMO.
1- Stop at the cantina to refill. Maz doesn't exist.
2- Same scenes as in the movie more or less, and the Order and the Resistance arrive (including Leia who was told Han is there) and the big fight happens.
3- Clear shot when we see Leia when the ship's doors open, her holding a blaster, with the visible light saber hanging from her belt. Comes out blasting with others. Eventually loses the blaster and uses the light saber to deflect some lasers and rescue Han in a tight spot, this is how they reunite, add some funny dialogue from Han.
- This is a good way to reunite both characters in the middle of a battle, makes it easy to include some funny dialogue between both while having an action scene, and reminds us that Leia has been pretty bad ass since day one which people tend to forget. Also teases us a little about future revelations considering she has her brother's saber and even uses it.
4- Leia gets another blaster and puts the saber back on her belt, Han and Leia both fight it out, and eventually get in trouble but saved by Rey.
- Shows that both characters are more vulnerable than we might have thought and how it's no longer really their time even if they still have it in them, Leia might have the saber but she prefers to use a blaster (not a jedi), creates a connection between Rey and Leia where Leia gets to see that there might be something familiar about Rey, that she reminds her of herself.
5- The good guys win, the order pulls out.
6- Hours later in an improvised resistance camp on site, Leia meets Rey and Rey is curious about who she is. "The laser sword, that's a Jedi weapon right?" "It was... once" "Luke's? It was Luke's? ... and someone else?" "How do you know this?" "I feel it".
- Leia now knows for sure Rey is force sensitive, that there is more to her.
7- Rey touches the saber and has her vision. Freaks out. Han barges in, Leia asks who is this girl?
- This justifies why Han would take the saber to Rey later, he too now knows there is something about Rey.
8- During the night, Rey is called out, almost trance like, as if Luke is calling to her. She walks out of the location they are staying at, going into the forest. We are led to think she is going to meet Luke, maybe speak to him through the force. We see a robed figure. It's Ren.
- This teases the audience about Luke, we think finally this is it, we'll see Luke. It creates an emotional response in the audience similar to what Rey herself is feeling. It also creates a parallel to Vader who pulled the same kind of trick before, speaking to Luke remotely, emphasizing Ren's dark side.
7- Ren force-freezes her, captures her. Flies away aboard his own ship.
- Like Vader, Ren can pilot his own ship, and he's ready to get down and dirty on his own instead of relying on the storm troopers when they can't do their jobs.
8- Leia gives the saber to Han, saying she feels Rey is meant to have it.
That to me would have worked much better than what we got. Still loved the movie though, just little nitpicks. Maz was the biggest mistake IMO.
Isn't he hispanic?
Tesseract
Banned
maybe, idk
the blood and chest beating sold me that he was barely keeping it together, especially after having just murdered his dad
Hah! This is hilarious to see this type of cynicism turned around. I'm almost certain he's going to be the Han Solo archetype going forward.
Ghostmaster
Member
They appear briefly in the vision when Rey touches the sabre and in the final trailer.
They are supposedly responsible for the destruction of the Jedi academy.
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
Yeah, and that sort of bummed me out, haha. I mean I get it, but I don't really know who to fear yet.
No he's great bad guy. Reminds me of Commodus from Gladiator. Conflicted, has father issues, wants to be powerful and intimidating but comes off as a joke to a lot of people around him.
Chances are he's going to become a lot more fearsome in the next one though. People may get the Vader-clone they're hoping for.
Vampirolol
Member
So is Han Solo going to resurrect as Darth Icky or Darth Insanius?
brandonh83
Banned
lol what. This cannot be serious.
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