Support NeoGAF

[TheOctodad]

Well yeah, you said it, parents have a part to play. Not every parents are comfortable with this, unfortunately.

And at some point, someone, is going to have to do it anyway.

I promise you there are parents who are uncomfortable with a black man and a white woman being together. So should they not do it?

 

[Fj0823]

Ewan cameo makes me so happy.
Give him a movie now!!!!

 

[MrTexor]

Isn't he hispanic?

He is from Guatemala.. Tho, I think he moved to NY when he was a kid.

 

[Pineapple]

The more I think about it, the more Poe feels like a shoe-horned in character who's just there to be the token white male hero to give the white males someone to relate to.

The person playing Poe isn't white.

But so what if he was? What's wrong with having representation of many different races?

 

[MMarston]

so then he's just a garbage villain, which is a far bigger problem than just some dumb power level stuff

So character complexities = shit villain now?

The more I think about it, the more Poe feels like a shoe-horned in character who's just there to be the token white male hero to give the white males someone to relate to.

Isaac is Guatamelan

 

[Shaanyboi]

Hah! This is hilarious to see this type of cynicism turned around. I'm almost certain he's going to be the Han Solo archetype going forward.

Nah, Han could be a real asshole. Po is a genuine bro.

 

[The Elite]

The more I think about it, the more Poe feels like a shoe-horned in character who's just there to be the token white male hero to give the white males someone to relate to.

WTF is this shit?

Why would we need Poe when we got Han?

 

[Jarmel]

Poe does feel shoehorned in but that's due to how lacking the aerial battles were.

 

[brandonh83]

Lando was in ESB to make black people happy and that's about it.

 

[Buba Big Guns]

so then he's just a garbage villain, which is a far bigger problem than just some dumb power level stuff

Why is that a problem? It's pretty obvious that Kylo isnt even the main villain. And we get to see both him and Rey develop in the sequels.

Kylo isn't the problem with this movie, it's how they pretty much use the exact story from episode 4.

 

[Ushojax]

so then he's just a garbage villain, which is a far bigger problem than just some dumb power level stuff

Well that's the point, he's not ready to be the big bad, not yet. He's a Vader cosplayer who has delusions of grandeur, he is not the finished article. They intentionally wrote it so that he starts off intimidating at the Jakku massacre, but as the movie goes on we see that under the mask is a confused man who doesn't really know what he's doing.

Villains don't have to be inscrutable monsters, he did some awful things in this movie but they went out of their way to show his vulnerabilities. That's not a bad thing.

With all the talk about how Lucas' vision for VII was different than Disney's, I'm wondering if Arndt's script would have been focused on Han, Leia and Luke rather than Finn and Rey. I could imagine it playing out way differently where the story is told from Han's point of view, wandering the galaxy and smuggling while trying to come to terms with his son's fate, and then these young adventurers cross paths and become entangled with him.

Think about it.

I believe Lucas wanted kids to the the main stars of his Episode VII, so...yeah. I'm glad they tossed that out.

 

[tkato]

He is from Guatemala.. Tho, I think he moved to NY when he was a kid.

That's nice to hear, he's such a good boy.

 

[Ovid]

Just saw it. On my phone so no big impressions due to typing issues.

Felt the plot itself was a bit thin and redundant, but the characters made up for it. I'm still not really sure why the First Order even wanted or cared about Luke enough to hunt him down.

As long as Luke is alive he will always be a threat to their expansion.

It's the same reason why dictatorships kill leaders of uprisings.

 

[The One and Done™]

Maybe Kylo didn't take the fight seriously
Maybe Kylo was weak due to his being shot
Maybe Kylo wasn't trying to kill her but instead recruit her
Maybe Rey is a lot more skilled than we know
Maybe Rey was guided by Luke during the fight
Maybe there is a lot of things we will find out in the next films that will add to the current films

Holy shit, possibilities and leaps of logic and plotholes!

 

[injurai]

Nah, Han could be a real asshole. Po is a genuine bro.

Bro of a different era.

 

[Robot Pants]

It doesn't matter how experienced you are with a melee weapon - the guided reflexes that Jedi/Sith/Force users possess is unrivaled by anyone not attuned to the Force. The subtext of the film made it clear that the Force was not Finn's future. The fight between him and Kylo should have been over in two seconds.

I can accept the argument that Rey was able to fare better given that she's apparently an incredibly powerful Force user, but she was still untrained.

And even if you throw out the "Kylo was injured" rationalization, it still doesn't explain why the Force completely fails him when he tried to summon the blue lightsaber - which instead magically ends up in the hands of Rey.

This was honestly my biggest problem with the movie.
He's trained by LUKE for God's sake. He's well trained enough to be trusted by Snoke to be leading this expedition and the Knights of Ren.

I'm all for Rey surprising the shit out of Kylo with how strong with the force she is, maybe even surprising him with her combat, but it should have stopped there.
Show his surprise and his recoil, and have something intervene the fight so it ends to be continued later.

 

[Christopher]

The more I think about it, the more Poe feels like a shoe-horned in character who's just there to be the token white male hero to give the white males someone to relate to.

What a fucked up garage opinion

 

[a916]

maybe, idk

the blood and chest beating sold me that he was barely keeping it together, especially after having just murdered his dad

The audio book of Force Awakens is out which expands stuff from the movie, I'm going through it right now and it definitely adds a lot of small details, things like Fin was mourning a guy who he trained closely with (the bloody hand)... someone came up to him and ask him if his blaster was jammed and that he should get it checked. And that's why Phasma came up to him and ask him to get it checked.

I'll see what they reveal in the Rey vs Kylo fight.

 

[OricWindstar]

He is from Guatemala.. Tho, I think he moved to NY when he was a kid.

I think he actually grew up in Nashville. At least, I remember him saying that on the Nerdist podcast.

 

[Henkka]

The more I think about it, the more Poe feels like a shoe-horned in character who's just there to be the token white male hero to give the white males someone to relate to.

I cringed

 

[Skellig Gra]

I think I must have missed some details in the movie about the Knights of Ren, or was this covered in other media?

It's 1 line by Snookie. And possibly the part in Rey's vision with the gang of guys with Kylo.

 

[The Elite]

Maybe Kylo didn't take the fight seriously
Maybe Kylo was weak due to his being shot
Maybe Kylo wasn't trying to kill her but instead recruit her
Maybe Rey is a lot more skilled than when know
Maybe Rey was guided by Luke during the fight
Maybe there is a lot of things we will find out in the next films that will add to the current films

Holy shit, possibilities and leaps of logic and plotholes!

What fucking leap of logic? If you get shot in the torso try tying your shoes much less having a sword fight.

 

[Mr Cola]

Poe was the best character in the film

 

[orthodoxy1095]

The more I think about it, the more Poe feels like a shoe-horned in character who's just there to be the token white male hero to give the white males someone to relate to.

Lol. Come on.

 

[brandonh83]

Poe does feel shoehorned in but that's due to how lacking the aerial battles were.

Okay so, people are bitching about how the movie is a new A New Hope, imagine what would have happened if they made a longer aerial battle at the end, especially a prolonged trench run or something. I'm glad it didn't focus on that battle much at all, the real climax was in the snowy forest.

 

[JoeInky]

Just got back from seeing it and I'm struggling with my ranking of this film.

It's either

5 > 4 > 7 > 6 >> 3 >>> 1 >> 2
or
5 > 4 = 7 > 6 >> 3 >>> 1 >> 2


A bit to similar to episode 4 but I found it to be a very enjoyable film.


There was a lot more humour in the film than I expected there to be, and most of the jokes seemed to land based on the audiences reactions.

Everyone seems to love BB-8, especially when he did the "thumbs" up to finn. I also enjoyed the two stormtroopers noping the fuck out when they hear Kylo having a temper tantrum.

I'm not sold on Snoke yet, I'm hoping the projection of him is just enlarged because the idea of a giant guy in Star Wars seems a bit wrong to me.


I kinda groaned at how often rey kept telling finn she didn't need him to hold her hand, seemed a little forced after the first time.

 

[TheChewyWaffles]

Loved it. Fuck the haters.

5 > 4|7 > 6 > 1 > 3 > 2

I agree with most of this but any list that doesn't have 1 dead last is wrong.

5 > 4/7 > 6 > 3 > 2 > 1

 

[MMarston]

What fucking leap of logic? If you get shot in the torso try tying your shoes much less having a sword fight.

Especially after up and murdering your dad

 

[KingSnake]

Rey taking on a force user (even while being hurt) isn't the same as just punching some thugs on a desert planet , which she likely knew....since she goes there a lot to trade. Mid movie she even runs from the saber, how does she even know to channel any sort of force power when 'in movie time' she questioned its whole existence two days earlier. It's a big pill to swallow.

She already owns him twice in the mind games before that: first when he tries to get the map out of her mind and secondly when she grabs the saber from under his ... Force.

Eh, it's not nitpicking so much as that's just JJ's directorial style. He's a very fast-paced, impatient director so his films always have... not much "plot holes" but they cut corners when it comes to the little things so that he can nail the big set pieces, the big emotional beats. Hence why the two Star Trek films got "nitpicked" to death... it's not so much that the films are outright awful so much as they just play it really fast and loose with the plot and sometimes things get a little incoherent because of it.



I didn't miss it. I forgot it. I saw it last night, then I went to sleep. Big difference!

Kylo hits twice his chest being in pain during the fight. There is like a pause in those moments especially to show how hurt he is. They show him bleeding on the snow. How can one miss that but remember the fight was illogical.

I can't imagine he would use a lightsaber as his main weapon and not know how to use it well.

A self made villain with self made lightsaber and an incomplete training. A wannabe Vader. He knows how to use it, but he doesn't excels at it. And he can't outForce Rey once she acknowledges her abilities.

 

[Vampirolol]

Poe was the best character in the film

He's more Captain America than Captain America.

 

[Papercuts]

It isn't that. It is that she won yet again in the movie, in yet another field. Master pilot, master mechanic now master swordfighter and force user. It just stacks up and it became more and more bothersome as the movie went on. That was just the final straw. It has nothing to do with Kylo losing. Like I said earlier, her character basically ruined the movie for me.

This. I get what the fight was trying to convey and how it was more about the characters/emotions than the actual skill of what was happening, but it happens at the end of a movie that already shows Rey excelling at everything. Kylo being a flawed villain is fine, great even, but to me(and apparently many others since this scene seems to be brought up on literally every page) it came at the expense of Rey's character.

In the full trilogy it may not end up mattering much, but standalone looking at just this film it really stands out as a sore spot that's hard to swallow.

 

[The One and Done™]

Exactly. Poe isn't even white.

 

[Charcoal]

KYLO WANTS TO BE LIKE VADER

BUT

HE'S NOT VADER

He's not supposed to be scary like him. What's so hard to understand about that?

 

[Skellig Gra]

Poe was the best character in the film

Totally agree. He's a perfect replacement for Han.

 

[Shaanyboi]

Poe was the best character in the film

I wanna be best friends with Poe Dameron.

 

[jman2050]

The more I think about it, the more Poe feels like a shoe-horned in character who's just there to be the token white male hero to give the white males someone to relate to.

Poe is white?

 

[Meowster]

The Phantom Menace will always be a better movie than Attack of the Video Game CGI. It at least has a solid structure to it.

 

[Octavianus]

Sheev has a nice ring to it. Maybe they should consider that

Ugh, don't remind me.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

I agree with most of this but any list that doesn't have 1 dead last is wrong.

5 > 4/7 > 6 > 3 > 2 > 1

1 is cringeworthy but at least mildly watchable. 2 is cringeworthy and puts me to sleep every time. Way worse of a film.

 

[TheOctodad]

Reading thread like this and seeing the kinds of things people miss and misconstrue, I feel like I have a better understanding of why certain movies succeeded these last few years.

 

[The Elite]

I wanna be best friends with Poe Dameron.

Poe is your bro.

 

[Jarmel]

Okay so, people are bitching about how the movie is a new A New Hope, imagine what would have happened if they made a longer aerial battle at the end, especially a prolonged trench run or something. I'm glad it didn't focus on that battle much at all, the real climax was in the snowy forest.

Well as it stands, both segments (Maz's Castle and Starkiller) feel too truncated. It's underwhelming. They've already made the decision to rip that part off from ANH, might as well go in all the way and make it feel meaningful.

 

[a916]

Just got back from seeing it and I'm struggling with my ranking of this film.

It's either

5 > 4 > 7 > 6 >> 3 >>> 1 >> 2
or
5 > 4 = 7 > 6 >> 3 >>> 1 >> 2


A bit to similar to episode 4 but I found it to be a very enjoyable film.


There was a lot more humour in the film than I expected there to be, and most of the jokes seemed to land based on the audiences reactions.

Everyone seems to love BB-8, especially when he did the "thumbs" up to finn. I also enjoyed the two stormtroopers noping the fuck out when they hear Kylo having a temper tantrum.

I'm not sold on Snoke yet, I'm hoping the projection of him is just enlarged because the idea of a giant guy in Star Wars seems a bit wrong to me.


I kinda groaned at how often rey kept telling finn she didn't need him to hold her hand, seemed a little forced after the first time.

Get out of my head lol. Agree on every point. Especially the last one.

They were making it obvious that "Rey is a female and she's strong and she won't be led by someone, infact, here take my hand Fin, I'll lead you"

 

[sn00zer]

So are the Resistance and Order really minor factions now? Seemed like neither force was very big and were next door to each other....and then the senate was also next door?

Either way the set up to their current influence on the world at large was not explained at all.

 

[Henkka]

Especially after up and murdering your dad

Yeah, lightsaber duels have as much to do with the emotions of the characters as they have with physical skill. Kylo was conflicted and unsure of himself, so he lost to Rey, who had her shit together.

 

[shem935]

The Phantom Menace will always be a better movie than Attack of the Video Game CGI. It at least has a solid structure to it.

Nah man. One has good characters, one doesn't. Simple as that.

 

[The Elite]

KYLO WANTS TO BE LIKE VADER

BUT

HE'S NOT VADER

He's not supposed to be scary like him. What's so hard to understand about that?

Yup.

Yet he's scary in his own way. That unhinged personality can be downright frightening. I am with the stormtroopers - slowly backing away.

 

[Salz01]

Lando was in ESB to make black people happy and that's about it.

This is such bullshit. Lando was awesome.

 

[Mr Cola]

I also think the whole Finn/FN thing is the most wonderful troll in recent memory, I remember all the speculation that they wouldnt release his last name, he doesnt have one

Brilliant

Well he does but its irrelevant

Poe named Finn

Best friends

 

[Brannon]

Ren is when you take the internet, bash it over the head with Star Wars and put a bucket on its head. I agree that he is supposed to be a pale imitation. It totally works.