To trick Han Solo!
[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens - It's True. All of it.
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
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To trick Han Solo!
His movies have letter place in the current discussion about Rey though, and he's not the only one i've seen who has this point about Rey. Other Gaffers here posted the same thing the last couple days as to how she basically has the fullskillset needed to be the perfect star wars character (flying, engineering, combat, force, she has it all except maybe marksmanship)
Eh? Luke trained for two movies to be a Jedi. That sure as hell isn't the same as freeing yourself from the Not Empire by teaching yourself the force in 10 seconds flat.
Max Landis explains it better than I would, anyway.
The power up is ineffective the way it is sued. Saber fighting should have nothing to do with power levels, it should have to do with the sword fighting skills of the two duelists. No amount of Force tapping power should allow her to instantly know how to defeat a trained duelist. That was why that particular part fell flat to me. Now, if she were to tap into The Force and do some super powerful Force Push which knocked him on his ass that would be different.
eyeball_kid
Member
I can't disagree with this. I would have preferred that Ren overpower Rey and capture her to take to Supreme Leader, while Leia is the one that goes to Luke. Would've been a much more powerful and tense ending, more like ESB.
CambriaRising
Member
To trick the patriots into thinking he was R5D4
Ghostmaster
Member
I don't really get the whole Saber techniques arguments, it's a damn sword, it is already established that she is reasonably skilled with her staff so it wouldn't be that hard to use a sword for her.
And the fight is choreographed in a very purposeful way to show that they are both very bad at it, with all the pokes that miss or just wound the other, hell you can see Kylo just wasting his energy and blood by swinging wildly when there is no reason for it, whether that was a result of his physical breakdown or his lack of or lackluster training under Luke remains to be seen.
It's depressing, but given our world, Finn playing second fiddle to Rey was only to be expected and it's not going to change. She is the lead, and he is second lead.
I don't think Finn was constantly getting schooled even if he did need a lot of help. He was actually pretty smart and manipulative throughout the film. When he realised the First Order wasn't shit, he busted out Poe to help him escape. When he realised the Order would be hunting him down, he got Rey and BB8 to take him off world. When Rey was taken, he lied to the Resistance in order to get him to her.
I love Rey and I think Daisy Ridley is fantastic, but she is a Mary Sue and that doesn't help her character for me. Finn is thankfully not a Gary Stu. He isn't flawless, far from it. He's manipulative and selfish, but that is mitigated by the fact he is a good person with a code to look after those he cares for. That, and his hysterical comedy, is what makes him such an endearing and lovable character.
I am invested in seeing him go forward. Rey too, but Finn more so because his path isn't as predictable.
Honestly, if Finn and Rey were like Max and Furiosa, I would have probably hated this movie. That has to be earned. They both started out in this story as young, inexperienced adolescent kids trying to figure out who they are what their place is in the universe.
The One and Done
Member
Max Landis is insufferable at times.
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
I guess. I rather listen to a person make a well reasoned argument then worry about quality of the film he/she has written. Unless he/she is saying they could have done it better.
ProudCanuck
Banned
This is his biggest problem , his ego has become so big after chronicle he thinks he can write better than anyone
CassidyIzABeast
Member
Kylo appeared to be a beast until the interrogation scene. Once Created Player Rey broke his force hold it was a wrap. I would rather have seen Kylo dominate full stop.
Finally got around to seeing this..went early in the morning, most expensive screening to try and avoid children...fuck. Little idiot would repeat dialog 4-5 times after it's said "I can do this, I can do this" then hear behind me 'I can do this, I can do this, I can do this, I can do this, I can do this." increasing in volume..lightly clapping with every fucking explosion..
In the end I found it a bit underwhelming, removing his helmet and revealing his parents too early Ren just didn't seem like as big a threat as he was supposed to be. Thought he looked a bit lame with his helmet on but hood down.
As soon as Ren said "He's like the father you never had." I knew Han was dead.
Didn't like Rey, she just felt off.
Finn was great, but thought he got a bit too carried away too often.
I get the feeling the big bad guy will be much smaller and that was just an enlarged projection of him.
Was really hoping BB-8 was just going to be R2-D2 when he rolled up and pulled the sheet off..like his A.I. had been put into a different shell.
In the end I found it a bit underwhelming, removing his helmet and revealing his parents too early Ren just didn't seem like as big a threat as he was supposed to be. Thought he looked a bit lame with his helmet on but hood down.
As soon as Ren said "He's like the father you never had." I knew Han was dead.
Didn't like Rey, she just felt off.
Finn was great, but thought he got a bit too carried away too often.
I get the feeling the big bad guy will be much smaller and that was just an enlarged projection of him.
Was really hoping BB-8 was just going to be R2-D2 when he rolled up and pulled the sheet off..like his A.I. had been put into a different shell.
Christopher
Member
You guys think Lando will be in the sequels?
Also what about Yoda and Ben as force ghosts would you guys mind Ewan being older Obi Wan as a force ghost?
Also what about Yoda and Ben as force ghosts would you guys mind Ewan being older Obi Wan as a force ghost?
Spiritreaver
Member
Yeah, the spoiler thread was full of people saying that people were going to be butt hurt over Finn's performance in this film. I was always trying to chime in that his story would be great, even if he isn't the "main" lead. He turned out to be an incredible character and I can't wait to see where he goes in the film.
Where are those people anyway? I haven't seen many people from the old spoiler thread posting here.
Where are those people anyway? I haven't seen many people from the old spoiler thread posting here.
Not only that but Luke gets his shit kicked in a lot in ESB in a similar situation. He's basically Vader's toything during their duel. In ANH he has almost no usage of the force until the very last moment. In ESB he starts his training but is still very blue. It's only in ROTJ that he fully becomes a jedi knight.
Not that I mind at all the fight between Rey and Ren. As i expressed before I thought it was cool to see that both of them were actually quite inexperimented, and to have a fight with some grit between a wounded inexperienced dark jedi and a newly awakened force user. It made the character of Kylo Ren more compelling to me. It's just that Rey had a whole movie of somehow very convenient exploits that kinda undermines the whole thing and I wouldn't have been against a slightly different outcome to the fight
heliosRAzi
Banned
Did Landis shit in your cereal or something?
We don't know how much Ren has trained but we know he is a competent saber wielder. Ren toys with Finn the entire fight and only gets serious when Finn actually manages to slightly wound him at which point he easily dispatches of him. He then does the same thing to Rey until she taps into the Force and downloads some new Saber techniques. Rey is never established as being adept at saber righting, she only carries around a staff which she never really uses. Hell, even in that small fight on Jakku she was mainly using her fists and legs. For them to suddenly reveal her to be a saber wielding master makes no sense.
DragonSworne
Banned
Ren should be crazy strong in the force though. No way would a weak force user stop a blaster beam and freeze it for 3+ minutes.
The opening scene made him look stronger than Vader ever was.
The opening scene made him look stronger than Vader ever was.
I'm under the impression that Rey is Luke's daughter and that would bring an interesting duality between her and her cousin.
Kylo Ren is unchecked power and can't control his emotions.
Rey is kind hearted and great at piloting shops and has major texhinxal aptitude. .
Rey and Kylo Ren both have parts of Anikan/Vadar in them.
One odd thing is while watching the movie I never asked the question who is Luke Skywalker like JJ said.
Kylo Ren is unchecked power and can't control his emotions.
Rey is kind hearted and great at piloting shops and has major texhinxal aptitude. .
Rey and Kylo Ren both have parts of Anikan/Vadar in them.
One odd thing is while watching the movie I never asked the question who is Luke Skywalker like JJ said.
I'm glad they didn't go that route. It would of been more of a carbon copy of ANH with mimicking Vader.
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
Well I have not gotten this from watching his videos.
So I guess we disagree.
Yes, because Max Landis also writes screenplays any critique he gives of a film is invalid and is him expressly stating he could have done everything better.
I'm sure he will be in the Young Han Solo spinoff. It's a no brainer.
DudeWithNoName
Member
Yeah that was the funniest part of the movie. I wish she wasn't wearing her helmet at that moment, because the look in her face would've been priceless!
Lord of Castamere
Member
Didn't Vader like dematerialize blaster bolts in ESB though?
I interpreted it as him just having a lot of raw power with a good instinct. The moment he lost control/got overpowered by Rey is when he lost his composure, hence his use of the force.
Of course it could've been done better (see Rey discussion). But I personally liked that he got shown to be also kind of a scrub.
He does have a very punchable face and weakly voice though that makes him seem even more pathetic than he should be
And suddenly I am actually interested in the Han Solo movie.
Young Han, Chewie and Lando running amok in the galaxy, scamming, swindling and boozing... cannot pass that up.
ProudCanuck
Banned
This seems to be his niche, after a blockbuster movie he sometimes releases videos of how he would do it better as if he is a better writer
That's what books and comics are for. If Lucas wrote the TFA script, we'd get 5 minutes of exposition about how he lost his other arm.
Man Called Aerodynamics
Member
Was there some significance to C3PO's red arm and how he mentioned that he needed to get his original arm repaired?
heliosRAzi
Banned
Or maybe he does what a lot of people do already.
Ghostmaster
Member
But do we really? Like you said the only time we see him actually beast on someone is when he is fighting Finn, a guy that probably had no melee combat training at all (I guess there are those new melee stormtroopers but considering how quickly Finn lost to one I suppose he never underwent that training), and still manages to get injured whether he is toying or not.
I do agree that it kinda seems weird that a guy trained by Luke and maybe Snoke was that bad at lightsaber combat, but in that entire forest scene he looks incredibly sloppy, he is missing swings, stabs, letting Finn get that easy blow, some of it is probably due to his injuries but some of it is definitely because of his lack of training.
It always seems like he is swinging a hammer and not a sword, he seems like he is relying purely on power and not technique.
brandonh83
Banned
I doubt that. Lucas' films move well for the most part.
Why the hell not?
Once again, I reiterate. Mystical space magic that allows you to perform impossible physical feats and have near-perfect instinctual reactions to everything so long as you're attuned to it.
Definitely some parents in the theatre thinking "oh shit I gotta take that toy back and put a different one under the tree...".
I always saw it as jedi saber skills were dictated by there force-ability. Training hones it and raises all your skills, but obviously some people are more innately Force-sensitive than others. Ergo I saw Rey's comeback as her finally channeling her force ability to dictate her saber strategy, rather than the techniques she would use for her simple staff. If Kylo as a novice force-user with little known competition, is both beaten up and conflicted over the fact that he just killed his father (which might weaken his link to the dark side), he's gonna have a hard time.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Specifically about the Force, then. not the other stuff?
I'm assuming there are reasons for that which will be explained in the follow-ups. Overall, Force use in this movie was amped up, for Kylo too. Never saw Vader or Palpatine freeze a blast nonchalantly and leave it there.
APZonerunner
Member
Ewan is actually briefly 'in' this, isn't he? We hear his voice call out to Rey in her vision. This gives me a bit of hope they'll either pursue the 'last Jedi' spin-off movie with him or potentially have Obi Wan's ghost crop up somewhere, since he's obviously talking to the new Disneyfied Lucasfilm.
What were you doing when he explained the arm bit?
DragonSworne
Banned
Having Ren be a little bitch does make sense though. It explains why his bitch ass goes Dark side and why he has daddy issues.
Can't wait to see more of his early days.
Naw, I like that they basically showed Kylo was not all powerful. He's the first Sith character that doesnt come of as being "totally in control super cool bad guy". But once he kills Han, not only is powerful, he has the potential to surpass Vader.
The naiveness of the new cast is clearly there to allow them to grow. Kylo is progressing just as much as the good guys are. In OG Star Wars Luke was building up to fight Vader, in the new trilogy, Rey/Kylo/Fin are all growing together, making it not clear who is more powerful right off the bat.
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