[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #2) - One Thumb Up
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
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However I would prefer the lightsaber duels to be more bombastic. The prequels have ruined it for me. I want backflips and twirls!
No worries bruh. You can always catch a ballet show if you want to be reminded of the prequels.
BrokenFiction
Member
Fuck no. All of that is a slippery slope to this:
I've laughed at this gif for years. Then I watch the ESPN special - Evolution of the Lightsaber - on how Kendo as a fighting form was used as the sword style for the PT. Check it out. The fights were classic Kendo duels. This is a single anomaly.
The Librarian
Banned
Don't quite understand how the "shooting animals" explanation somehow sits better with you than Rey channeling the force when flying the Falcon, but okay.
WadiumArcadium
Member
I disagree. Finn's an actual character for starters. He's funny, yes, but Jar Jar is just fuck-up after fuck-up. He contributes nothing, which isn't the case for Finn.
BronsonLee
Member
Count Dookkake
Member
After the escape from the creepy monsters, did Han say, in reference to BB-8, "Grab the toy"?
Hopefully in EPVIII Leia gets killed off and the new leader of the Resistance is called Nirrors and we get EPIX Snoke and Nirrors
Because a character taking difficult shots while piloting before as an explanation for piloting skill is better than "because reasons".
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Seems like there was some good Rey backstory in the novel or comic or whatever, so it's a shame we didn't see more of that in the film. But that's an overarching issue with it in general, the rapid pacing and often unwillingness to develop ideas.
I think we'll see a deeper side to Rey explored in the next one through her training with Luke, which I'm excited to see.
I think we'll see a deeper side to Rey explored in the next one through her training with Luke, which I'm excited to see.
m_shortpants
Member
I think putting too much mystery and chekovs gun on Rey was a mistake. We don't know who her parents are. All we know is she's been abandoned. It just seems a bit too mysterious for the main protagonist. It was offset by Finn being more relateable, but even I had questions about him defecting so quickly. "Because its the right thing?" Was the force involved? Not sure.
DarkHeartedKill
Member
Fuck no. All of that is a slippery slope to this:
That happened for like 2.343 seconds. COME ON!
D
Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
Don't judge me! (I always like that Gif, but yeah, 2 secs)
But I prefer the new fights. It could be explain in canon with the mere fact that almost that the Jedi almost went extinct. And Obi-Wan and Yoda didn't really seem to teach combat styles more than the ways of the Force.
brandonh83
Banned
They were doing this to throw each other off, and use Force sensibilities to predict when the other is going to make a move. Approximately 2 seconds of thinking about it can lead to this conclusion which is about the length of the moment itself.
We're all friends here!
My favorite part was when people who practiced Kendo attacked each other on vines and lava snow boards and flipped forwards and backwards leaving themselves totally vulnerable.
Killer Queen
Banned
Entirely disagree. Thought his design and voice were great, especially liked the reveal of him being holographic too.
Luke was early on established to be a pilot who wanted to join the Imperial Academy and become a pilot for the Empire. This is the plane Luke claimed to fly and constantly bullseye Womp Rats with back on Tatooine.
It has similar controls to the then used Rebel variant of the X-Wing. According to canonical sources, it has a maximum speed of 1200 km/h, which is very similar to the atmospheric top speed of Rebel X-Wings. It is not entirely unbelievable or questionable that Luke is a good pilot. It's his one real talent. We can give him that.
Luke makes the near impossible shot with Obiwan's help. However, prior to it, he claims to be able to do it himself. Maybe he would've made the shot without Obiwan, maybe not, but we know he had Obiwan's presence guiding him.
Those little laser orbs are used by younglings. Luke being 19 and powerful in the Force being able to deflect them after a few tries and further guidance from Obiwan isn't much of a stretch at all.
Er, the last one... really? It's a generic action sequence born from desperation and achieved purely by luck.
Luke endangered everyone on Endor because Darth Vader could sense him.
Aside from the Raptars (?) sequence, which was really an action sequence and comedic relief, Rey never put any one in danger. She got captured doing a selfless thing and Finn chose to lie to the Resistance to save her.
gutter_trash
Banned
Snoke + Maz were the two worst things of the movie. CG poo characters who don't look Star Warsy
just an excuse to push "performance capture" mo crap bad CG characters
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
Yeah I think thats a safe assumption especially since they have stuff already shot on the Irish Isle for ep 8.
However I would prefer the lightsaber duels to be more bombastic. The prequels have ruined it for me. I want backflips and twirls!
You know what, I got your back. I enjoyed the prequel fights as well (okay not Episode II's, but still):
I really didn't like that we got no explanation of why Kylo turned dark. That is the main complaint I have with the film. There is not a scene in the movie even hinting on why he went the dark route, the one scene where he looks at Darth Vaders helmet really doesn't make any sense within the movie. Why the hell would a son of Han and Leia start to worship him? Darth never did anything good with his life, he was only a lackey of Palpatine.
The only reason I can remotely think this is a good story is if this is a grand scheme of Luke in order to take down Snoke, and Kylo is a double agent. But then all his monologues wouldn't have made much sense. And killing your father is a bit to far fetched.
My initial disappointment is from watch Struckmann review, where he said that we really could tell why Kylo was evil. So I was looking forward to that scene, but it never showed up.
The only reason I can remotely think this is a good story is if this is a grand scheme of Luke in order to take down Snoke, and Kylo is a double agent. But then all his monologues wouldn't have made much sense. And killing your father is a bit to far fetched.
My initial disappointment is from watch Struckmann review, where he said that we really could tell why Kylo was evil. So I was looking forward to that scene, but it never showed up.
Agreed. At least at first people have been swooning and jumping over backwards for Rey, but Finn is definitely the best character in Abrams Wars. He has some real character development, is fun to watch and John Boyega brings with him all kinds of charisma and charm. I don't think he's force sensitive, but it'd be neat if they trained him into a Jedi. I mean, sheeeit, it doesn't look like Rey needs any training at all anyway.
The Librarian
Banned
You're equating shooting animals as credible experience for firing missiles from a highly versatile aircraft.
That's your credible explanation.
I am 'ow you say? Ah yes, spinning ze platters zat matter.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
Snoke + Maz were the two worst thing of the movie. CG poo characters who don't look Star Warsy
just an excuse to push "performance capture" mo crap bad CG characters
I completely understand people not liking her but I don't know I thought she was a fun character and brought a lot to the scenes she was in.
She does look exactly like a character from Antz though.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
They were doing that all the time in the OT except it was 100% mental.
Ether_Snake
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Doesn't mean anything, they can stay on that planet for a while, who says they would leave right away? Also, they could very well have to return there for whatever reason, or flashbacks, etc. Doesn't indicate in any way that the next movie won't be set after a timeskip.
This is you not knowing what you're talking about.
brandonh83
Banned
We did though. Snoke's manipulation. We found out Luke was training Jedi and Snoke was in the shadows manipulating Ben, Ben turned against them and Luke vanished feeling responsible.
Yep and this was just a different representation of it.
FriendlyGoat
Member
I dunno, one could also take her claim to be a pilot at face value. "Oh, she must have flown something before." It's not some major stretch.
Count Dookkake
Member
Another neat thing about this flick is how it smokes out the casual racists and sexists, as well as the forever alone crowd.
DarkHeartedKill
Member
Darth Maul is my favourite villain, dude is a bad ass. Double sided Lightsaber mannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn. And takes on two Jedi at once, killing one of em.You know what, I got your back. I enjoyed the prequel fights as well (okay not Episode II's, but still):
I liked his voice, and that he was holographic. His design looked like Smeagol.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
Hahaha
brandonh83
Banned
Probably the best post I've seen regarding this film so far.
Movie continues the modern trend of asking you to read the tie-in novels, comics, play the video game etc. aka buy more of our shit to get the full story.
Ether_Snake
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Doesn't matter, my point is it's a really weird way to reintroduce Luke:
Here's Luke! Timeskip before he even says a word. See him again months or years later.
That would be dumb.
I posted my theory in the other thread, but my idea is that basically Kylo has always been second best. He wasnt as strong as Luke, nor Vader. Along comes Rey as a child to be trained, and he realizes that he wont even be as strong as her, so he goes as far as to imitate Vader in the killing of all the Jedi trainees, hoping that brings him the power that he wants. Rey escapes with old man's help, thus why old man knows where Luke was.
Messypandas
Member
Han fucked off from Leia because looking at her reminded him of his son, Luke fucked off from Han and Leia because he fucked up their son. R2 fucked off from everyone cos fuck it.
Prequel lightsaber fights being like heavily choreographed dances makes sense for two orders who have not interacted with each other for a thousand years and spent all that time pretend-fighting, which would lead to a formalization of combat, combined with the elegance that comes with a highly trained use of the Force.
Good decision on George's part.
Good decision on George's part.
And Leia pretty much implied Kylo was a bit unstable while he was younger. Which is why she sent him off to Luke. Clearly she has regrets about doing that now.
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
What is this in reference to?
Saw this yesterday and loved the shit out of this movie. Had some minor gripes that look like they were echoed here already:
- When Kylo Ren stopped that blaster shot in mid air, I was all "Fuck. This dudes really powerful!" Then we learn that he's an unstable child, a trainee, and he gets worked in the finale by an untrained, future Jedi? In the books has there ever been a Jedi or Sith who can basically stop time around an object or create an extreme stasis field around something?
A buddy of mine who read the Darth Plaguis book (I know it's not canon, still) says that Sith can have specific traits that others don't or can't have. Like Palpatine had the ability to hide his Force abilities from those around him and no other Sith ever had that. Could that be a reason? Ren just has an inherently powerful ability to just stop shit?
- Rey using Mind Control out of left field. As far as I know that's always been an ability a Jedi learned after years of training. I guess that can be explained away as "maybe she's a Skywalker so she's extra powerful" but I don't like it. How does she even know a Jedi even CAN do that? Did she witness it somewhere? What about her Force grabbing the saber? How does she know what a Jedi is supposed to be able to do since she's never been in contact with one?
- Phasma. <sigh> well, she's definitely no Boba Fett. I don't even know how or why Gwendolyn Christie got so much press for this role.
- movie time. ' Starkiller is going to activate in 10 minutes!!!!'. <Solo and crew run across miles of distance, climb all over that reactor, put bombs on every other column, Rey and Finn find and pull a door fuse then climb up a tall ladder for viewpoint reasons, Han confronts son, etc etc etc.> :/
- When Kylo Ren stopped that blaster shot in mid air, I was all "Fuck. This dudes really powerful!" Then we learn that he's an unstable child, a trainee, and he gets worked in the finale by an untrained, future Jedi? In the books has there ever been a Jedi or Sith who can basically stop time around an object or create an extreme stasis field around something?
A buddy of mine who read the Darth Plaguis book (I know it's not canon, still) says that Sith can have specific traits that others don't or can't have. Like Palpatine had the ability to hide his Force abilities from those around him and no other Sith ever had that. Could that be a reason? Ren just has an inherently powerful ability to just stop shit?
- Rey using Mind Control out of left field. As far as I know that's always been an ability a Jedi learned after years of training. I guess that can be explained away as "maybe she's a Skywalker so she's extra powerful" but I don't like it. How does she even know a Jedi even CAN do that? Did she witness it somewhere? What about her Force grabbing the saber? How does she know what a Jedi is supposed to be able to do since she's never been in contact with one?
- Phasma. <sigh> well, she's definitely no Boba Fett. I don't even know how or why Gwendolyn Christie got so much press for this role.
- movie time. ' Starkiller is going to activate in 10 minutes!!!!'. <Solo and crew run across miles of distance, climb all over that reactor, put bombs on every other column, Rey and Finn find and pull a door fuse then climb up a tall ladder for viewpoint reasons, Han confronts son, etc etc etc.> :/
brandonh83
Banned
I think there's enough there for the movies. That stuff is if you want to know way more. Movies don't really have the time to get super deep into things like novels and whatnot and it was already over 2 hours.
The main issue with the lightsaber fights was imo the camera work.
uncelestial
Member
See? Now we're talking -- and I appreciate the picking apart and substantive discussion. Much better than just throwing accusations over the fence. Leave that nonsense on Twitter, we can go longform!
Respectively:
- They do refer to Luke's piloting ability. He talks about some craft he piloted, shooting at "womp rats," and how like the Death Star mission it would be. Another rebel pilot calls Luke "the best bush pilot in the Outer Rim" -- which a significant portion of the entire galaxy. One point I made when saying Rey suffered from Mary Sueness was that it was a side effect of her backstory being totally redacted for now. Here's an example where a little exposition papered up the cracks in Luke's case. You may not buy it, but at least ANH showed they were aware of the need for Luke to be good at this stuff before just waltzing in, and tried.
- Luke making the Death Star shot is such a huge moment in the film. The tension around him even attempting to do that belies what a huge ballsy move it was. He did it with the guidance of Obi-Wan, speaking to him and giving advice during the crucial moment. And it was just a moment of having impeccable perception/awareness. Leading up to that moment, Luke had explanations of what the force is, what it feels like, had done a little training with Obi-Wan, and again, practically had him as a co-pilot. It's supposed to make you nervous that he would even try, because you know he's shaky. Personally, I think it was pretty believable, as far as "people mastering magical forces" stories go.
- Luke having a minor moment of success during training with a Jedi master doesn't seem unbelievable to me.
- Grappling hook across a gap... That was kinda uncharacteristically Tarzanish for a farm boy, I guess. But it's not something that requires a lot of specific training to do, or knowledge of the force. If you had the grappling hook on ya, and it was try that or die, maybe you would even give it a shot. All you really need is to have it fastened on you and the good fortune to have hooked it onto the right thing.
Now let's look at Luke's near-death experiences in which other people had to save his green ass.
- He gets knocked out by sandpeople and has to be saved by Obi-Wan
- He gets shoved to the ground by some barfly and has to be saved by an Obi-Wan again
- Almost gets taken out by some garbage chute creature with tentacles
- Would've gotten rekt by Vader if Obi-Wan hadn't distracted him with the duel
- Would've gotten shot down by Vader if Han Solo hadn't gotten the bogeys off his tail ("You're all clear kid!")
And that's just off the top of my head. This Luke guy sure has some nice friends, because he really, really ought to be dead.
Rey suffers not a single embarrassing moment in this movie. Personally, I see a huge difference.
And listen, I'm also saying it's okay, and that I enjoyed it. But the Mary Sue thing? That is what it is.
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