tattooed_dwarf
Member
Imagine yourself having all that power and you end up killing your father. You wouldn't dare to look yourself in the mirror. And I would take you seriously, so there there.. 😃
[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #2) - One Thumb Up
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
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Lifejumper
Member
Rian johnson.
Blargonaut
Banned
I still stand by my deepest fanfic desire of the First Order being the Imperial equivalent of a rogue nuclear submarine group of economical ship-loving planet-haters, rather than the tired historical reenactment enthusiasts that they apparently are
yeah they framed that scene to be predictable
when finn and rey ran in it was like "ok here we go, everyone's in position"
Adam Driver is an excellent actor. His character portrayal on Girls is superb. I was excited to learn he was cast as Kylo Ren and thought he did a great job. Menacing, condescending, unhinged and creepy. Perfect!
Everyone, even Han, knew that when he stepped on that bridge, he would likely die. It was his last and only attempt he'd probably ever have to try and turn his son one last time. It was an effective scene to me, slidifying Ren's full dedication to the dark side.
Everyone, even Han, knew that when he stepped on that bridge, he would likely die. It was his last and only attempt he'd probably ever have to try and turn his son one last time. It was an effective scene to me, slidifying Ren's full dedication to the dark side.
Ok, just because your villain looks like Andy Samberg doesn't give him depth.
There are lots of ways you can not look like a stereotypical villain.
I mean, I think we'd all agree that casting Michael Cera or Jonah Hill as Kylo Ren would be a poor choice. It's the same case here.
There are lots of ways you can not look like a stereotypical villain.
I mean, I think we'd all agree that casting Michael Cera or Jonah Hill as Kylo Ren would be a poor choice. It's the same case here.
Please. PLEASE don't start with that bullshit. It doesn't make you look smart here.
Ok now. Those questions seem like something a person not familiar with Star Wars would ask. Most of them are explained extremely easy.
Anakin building C3-PO was unnecessary, but not a retcon. The OT NEVER established WHO built Tripio, so anything is fair game. I didn't like the idea, but it doesn't clash with anything. It's not a retcon since it doesn't alter a previously established canon. It is an expansion.
"1 - Age of the Republic. ANH: "A thousand generations" vs. AOTC: "a thousand years"
Obi-Wan just throwing a random number/timeframe for the sake of exposition without much detail.
2 - AOTC/ROTS: All stormtroopers are clones of Jango Fett. OT: they have different heights and different voices... none of them sound like Temura Morrison.
Either not true, or continuity/CGI error.
3 - Size of the Clone Army. AOTC: States 1.2 million "units." By the OT, how can there be enough Stormtroopers to patrol the Galaxy if it takes 10 years to grow them and they age at 2x the normal rate?
Stormtroopers are not clones.
4 - How can Leia remember her real mother (ROTJ), if not only was she born AFTER her twin Luke (ROTS), but Padme died in childbirth?
The Force allows her to remember/form an image of her mother.
5 - When did Obi-Wan Kenobi serve Bail Organa during the Clone Wars? (ANH)
He served the Republic Senate, which Bail Organa was part of. Technically he served under Organa, as well as under the rest fo the Senate.
6 - Design of the Tantive IV (name not stated in movie, but Captain Antilles's ship), how does it change so radically in 20 years? (ROTS vs. ANH)
20 years more than enough time to heavily remodel a ship. Hell, the Starkiller weapon was built in 30 years, and that fucking thing seems like a more impressive display of technology than anything in the universe. Past or present. Or... It is not the same ship.
7 - Why doesn't R2D2 remember the past 20 years?
He does. C3-PO is the one that doesn't remember since he got his memory erased
8 - Why did Ben Kenobi forget about Leia (ESB vs. ROTS)?
He remembered her. He knew who she was the instant he saw the hologram. You can clearly see the reaction in Sir Alec Guiness face.
9 - When did Anakin demonstrate that he was "already a great pilot" when Obi-Wan "first knew him"? (ROTJ vs. TPM)
He was a fantastic Pod Racing pilot and he managed to destroy the Droid Control Ship at age 9.
10 - When did Owen show any disagreement with Anakin, to the extent described by Obi-Wan? (ANH vs. AOTC/ROTS)
Obi-Wan making stuff up. Or any conflict between them happened between Ep. III and Ep. IV.
11 - Why does Yoda say that Jedi never use the Force for attack, but only 'knowledge and defense', and why does he disparage war/warriors? (ESB vs. AOTC/ROTS)
It's true. Jedi don't use The Force to start an attack. Jedi were defending the Republic in a war. They did not start it.
12 - Why was Luke "hidden" on Anakin's home planet, at the homestead of the family his mother married into and his last name not changed? (ROTS vs. ANH)
They figured that Anakin, if he survived, would never return to one of the planets he hated the most, due to the painful memories of his mother.
13 - Why doesn't Chewie react to Han Solo's bad-mouthing of the Jedi and the Force? (ANH vs. ROTS)
He didn't give a shit. He possibly knew Han would just deny it anyways.
14 - Why doesn't R2D2 ever use his rocket boosters again? (AOTC/ROTS)
He either cannot do it anymore, or he just doesn't feel it's necessary.
15 - Why did the first Death Star take twenty years to build, while the second, larger and more powerful station, was built in 1-3 years? (ROTS vs. ROTJ)
More technology/manpower available. Or the second Death Star was already in construction alongside the first.
16 - When was it shown that Anakin was a "good man" and a "good friend" before he turned to the Dark Side? (ROTS vs. ANH/ROTJ)
During the prequels.
17 - Why did Obi-Wan refer to Yoda as "The Jedi Master who instructed me" when he was instructed by Qui Gon Jinn? (TPM vs. ESB)
Yoda instructed Obi-Wan when he was a small kid. Yoda seems to be the entry point to the youngest Padawans before they are assigned to a proper Master
18 - Why does Yoda moan about Luke being "too old to begin the training" when Obi-Wan had no problem with it, and supposedly Yoda thought 9 year old Anakin was "too old"? (TPM vs. ANH/ESB)
Seems like Jedi training must begin at around ages 4-6. Anakin was too old since he was 9.
19 - What happened to Jar Jar Binks?
I don't think anybody cares. He's probably stuck at Naboo.
20 - (Special Editions) Why does anyone on Tatooine care when the Empire falls?
Maybe they were happy that some evil guys that terrorized countless planets are gone?
21 - Why does Obi-Wan wear his Jedi uniform "in hiding" on Tatooine? (ANH vs. TPM/AOTC/ROTS)
The Jedi uniform resembles the robes worn on Tatooine.
22 - What happened to all the battle droids?
Decomissioned.
23 - Why isn't Luke able to stop the Emperor's lightning attack and why doesn't Yoda at least show him how to counter it? (ROTJ vs. AOTC/ROTS)
Highly doubt Luke was powerful enough to deflect the Force Lightning. I don't think such teaching would be a beginner's lesson. Luke was having issues levitating rocks and maintaining focus.
24 - If there are only always ever two Sith "no more, no less... a master and an apprentice" (TPM) why does Vader recommend that Luke could be turned into a "powerful ally" and the Emperor agrees he would be a "great asset"? (TPM vs. ESB)
The Emperor always intended to replace Vader. He did not want both Vader and Luke. Vader had outlasted his usefulness. Vader most probably did not know of the rule, so the Emperor could control him more efficiently.
25 - Why do Obi-Wan, Anakin, Owen and Beru appear so old if only 18-20 years have past since we last saw them? (ANH/ROTJ vs. ROTS)
They had a hard life. I guess.
26 - Why doesn't Admiral Motti seem aware of the reality of the Force and the power of those who wield it? (PT vs. ANH)
We don't know his background enough to conclude anything. He could've always been a skeptic, even during the Republic days.
27 - What happened to the Imperial military in those two decades that they lost nearly all their hardware and technology? (ROTS vs. OT)
Unexplained. But the correct answer is because CGI allowed for more detailed models and technology.
28 - Why doesn't Obi-Wan recognize the droids? (ANH vs. PT)
He does.
29 - Why doesn't Owen Lars recognize the droids? (ANH vs. AOTC)
He either doesn't give a shit, or he simply believes them to be some random droids, which are very common everywhere. C3-PO doesn't recognize him due to having his memories erased, so Lars could just assume him to be some random Protocol Droid.
30 - Why don't Luke or Leia ever find out that R2D2 knows everything about their past?
During the OT they don't. We don't know if R2 told them afterwards.
31 - Why doesn't Qui Gon Jinn appear as a spirit at the end of ROTJ? (see AOTC/ROTS)
It would be useless. Luke would not recognize him, and he has little to do with Luke anyways.
32 - If one has to be "trained" to become a spirit after death, when did Anakin ever learn it? (ROTS vs. ROTJ)
Because Anakin was the greatest shit in the galaxy, the Chosen One and one of the most powerful Jedi.
33 - When did Anakin express the desire for his son to have his lightsaber when he was "old enough" (and if the Jedi are trained from birth, does that mean as a toddler? but since the Jedi aren't allowed to have children... then what?)?
Obi-Wan was making that story up.
34 - How many Wars were there? Why does Yoda refer to it as "the Clone War" instead of the "Clone WarS" (plural)? (AOTC vs. ANH)
Many wars fought by clones across the galaxy.
35 - Why does Ben refer to Vader as "Darth" if that is a Sith title rather than a personal name? (see ANH)
Because he felt like it. It's actually no big deal.
36 - Was Vader really "but the learner" when he "left" Obi-Wan? (ANH vs. ROTS)
He was certainly not the Master.
37 - Did Obi-Wan really stop going by that name (and start going by the name "Ben") "before" Luke was born? (ANH vs. ROTS)"
He's either making that suff up, or he indeed had an alias that was never shown during the PT.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
Then we need other people to complain that he looks sterotypically evil.
Admiral Woofington
Member
The issue was that the second he said "let's separate and meet up later" it was the start of the death flags.
Then you remember:
- old mentor of new generation ala Ben Kenobi
- Kylo went "lonestaaaaaaaaaaaaaar" moments prior as he sensed him there
- The entourage comes in and looks at the confrontation, like luke and guys with ben and vader
- They cut to Kylo walking in the ship with his stormtrooper entourage (YEAH YEAAAAAH)
- He steps onto the Bridge and Han does too. Very similar location to the confrontation of Luke and Vader.
All of those added to death flags like no other.
MisterHero
Super Member
Sure. A really talented writer could've crafted Leia as both a statesman and military leader.
I know the movie's focus was on Rey, but they could've given Leia more material and even did some world-building at the same time.
Kylo Ren isjrh2 said:
"When I grow up, I'm gonna be
he is automatically best villain yet
This X forever
Nostremitus
Member
There were hundreds of Jedi and a couple of Sith. He brought balance by killing the Jedi.
This is a tragedy! I am not invested in it though!
Oh, this is a tragedy with more backstory, I am now invested in the tragedy!
Really?
Blargonaut
Banned
Yep, that's also how I read that scene. It seemed pretty obvious that he was trying to use the pain to amp himself up.
:'(
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
Definitely a much more interesting take then them being the empire lite.
eyeball_kid
Member
I agree; we all knew it was going to happen at some point because Harrison Ford always said he'd only reprise his role if Han Solo dies (why Ford hates the role that made his career, I'll never know). But I expected it in Ep. 8 or 9. And I certainly didn't expect Han to be killed by his punkass kid. He didn't deserve that and Solo would've slapped the shit out of Kylo and told him to get his ass home. I felt like Solo knew what was going on and it was a bit sickening the writers had him just let it happen.
Okay so regarding Rey...
Based on the speculation and expectations in this thread including my very own, here's how I think her story could play out in VIII. This also includes some stuff I already mentioned earlier.
- As implied by the ending, we'll get to see her being trained by Luke to become a Jedi. Basically it'll be next gen Luke and Yoda. However here's the catch: whereas Yoda trained Luke to take out his recklessness, Rey goes through the opposite. Given her exceptional prowess in 7, she instead gets cockier and more overconfident as she further hones her skill. Basically, all those Mary Sue accusations? She eats it all up. Naturally, Luke warns her against this but she insists that it won't get the better of her.
- Eventually, Rey would also go through her own equivalent of Luke's cave moment. Only, instead of a ghost battle like Luke, we instead get a way more expanded flashback of what she sees at Maz's. Here, we find out that Rey's parents are killed by a young Kylo Ren+Knights but not before they leave Rey on Jakku to protect her due to the Order's witch hunt. After finding this out, Rey becomes burning with anger. She's wants blood - not is Ren responsible for her family's death, it would also make him responsible for her 15 years of isolation. Naturally, Luke condemns this kind of action and warns her about how he fucked up due to impulse decisions in his training. Rey immediately understands and relents...for now.
- Sometime later on in the film, Rey and Luke suspend training and join up with everyone else for whatever perilous climactic 3rd Act mission the film can demand. Whatever that mission is, Kylo Ren is involved. Anyways blah blah good guys succeed in solving said mission. BUT let's say Rey sees Ren fleeing the scene at the end of the mission. At first Rey could show some self-control, trying to walk away....but in the spur of the moment, goes 'FUCK IT', hops on a speeder, and goes after Ren.
- Both Kylo and Rey meetup in some very isolated location and here we get RenVsRey Part II. Unlike then, Rey gets a lot more trouble this time with Ren having further trained now. Despite this, Rey comes out on top and has Ren on the defensive. Eventually she gets in a position where she can finish him until...
- Surprise! The rest of the Knights of Ren also show up for the fun. With her incomplete training, exhaustion from a more hardened Kylo, and the clear numerical handicap, Rey proceeds to get beaten the living shit out of her to the point of near death.
But to her luck, the rest of the gang arrives to help her and it turns into an all out team battle. However, in the process two main characters lose their lives. One could be Finn or BB8 - the fact is they are close to her - and the other is Luke, who could totally pull his Kenobi sacrifice moment right here. That plus the faceless Resistance casualties included in the fighting. The good guys eventually escape by the skin of their teeth.
- After Rey recovers later on, she realize how much she just fucked up due to her overconfidence and anger. Not only does she get wrecked, it cost her the people she cares for. It's basically Yodas warning to Luke fulfilled 3 movies late. Thus at the end of the film, we see her set on her own to complete her training/Jedi pilgrimage (with maybe off-screen ghost Luke, a la QuiGon) for some soul searching. Cut to black. End.
Well, that was my fanfic moment. What do you think?
Based on the speculation and expectations in this thread including my very own, here's how I think her story could play out in VIII. This also includes some stuff I already mentioned earlier.
- As implied by the ending, we'll get to see her being trained by Luke to become a Jedi. Basically it'll be next gen Luke and Yoda. However here's the catch: whereas Yoda trained Luke to take out his recklessness, Rey goes through the opposite. Given her exceptional prowess in 7, she instead gets cockier and more overconfident as she further hones her skill. Basically, all those Mary Sue accusations? She eats it all up. Naturally, Luke warns her against this but she insists that it won't get the better of her.
- Eventually, Rey would also go through her own equivalent of Luke's cave moment. Only, instead of a ghost battle like Luke, we instead get a way more expanded flashback of what she sees at Maz's. Here, we find out that Rey's parents are killed by a young Kylo Ren+Knights but not before they leave Rey on Jakku to protect her due to the Order's witch hunt. After finding this out, Rey becomes burning with anger. She's wants blood - not is Ren responsible for her family's death, it would also make him responsible for her 15 years of isolation. Naturally, Luke condemns this kind of action and warns her about how he fucked up due to impulse decisions in his training. Rey immediately understands and relents...for now.
- Sometime later on in the film, Rey and Luke suspend training and join up with everyone else for whatever perilous climactic 3rd Act mission the film can demand. Whatever that mission is, Kylo Ren is involved. Anyways blah blah good guys succeed in solving said mission. BUT let's say Rey sees Ren fleeing the scene at the end of the mission. At first Rey could show some self-control, trying to walk away....but in the spur of the moment, goes 'FUCK IT', hops on a speeder, and goes after Ren.
- Both Kylo and Rey meetup in some very isolated location and here we get RenVsRey Part II. Unlike then, Rey gets a lot more trouble this time with Ren having further trained now. Despite this, Rey comes out on top and has Ren on the defensive. Eventually she gets in a position where she can finish him until...
- Surprise! The rest of the Knights of Ren also show up for the fun. With her incomplete training, exhaustion from a more hardened Kylo, and the clear numerical handicap, Rey proceeds to get beaten the living shit out of her to the point of near death.
But to her luck, the rest of the gang arrives to help her and it turns into an all out team battle. However, in the process two main characters lose their lives. One could be Finn or BB8 - the fact is they are close to her - and the other is Luke, who could totally pull his Kenobi sacrifice moment right here. That plus the faceless Resistance casualties included in the fighting. The good guys eventually escape by the skin of their teeth.
- After Rey recovers later on, she realize how much she just fucked up due to her overconfidence and anger. Not only does she get wrecked, it cost her the people she cares for. It's basically Yodas warning to Luke fulfilled 3 movies late. Thus at the end of the film, we see her set on her own to complete her training/Jedi pilgrimage (with maybe off-screen ghost Luke, a la QuiGon) for some soul searching. Cut to black. End.
Well, that was my fanfic moment. What do you think?
Disagree. Politics has always been the worst part of Star Wars. You can tell they wanted to just go with Resistance vs. First Order in this one, but they included the New Republic to not completely disregard the victory of ROTJ.
Admiral Woofington
Member
Oh daaaaaaaaaaaaaamn the guy who made Looper and Brick?
I loved those movies. Also looks like this film might be the dark second film haha
Davey Cakes
Member
I have to be honest...
I fucking LOVED that.
It's such a "raw" take on the dark side.
Tom Nook Sawyer
Member
It's entirely possible to provide context without having boring political exposition, unlike the prequels.
Starphoenix
Member
I have a feeling the next film will probably give us more backstory on what exactly happened to lead Kylo down this path.
It looked very "raw" and "real", I agree.
He was keeping himself sharp with the pain to stay on his feet from the blood loss.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Watch The Brothers Bloom.
JetBlackPanda
Member
Sounds awesome! They really have their work cut out for them because fan theory's will be all over for a year and I feel like whatever they come up with it will be a let down.
Admiral Woofington
Member
"Son do your jedi homework"
"Dad I wanna hang with my friends we're gonna go podracing"
"First homework, then podracing"
"I HATE YOU DAD"
Davey Cakes
Member
Yeah. This is why the "meltdowns" over Han are a bit confusing to me. Now, anyway.
The scene was done well and made sense. I can't have any qualms with it.
Icyflamez96
Member
It was.... But I did come to like the overall characterization of Kylo Ren even though that moment sort of annoyed me.
frankie_baby
Member
Just seen it and overall fantastic
One big issue I have though is the how the kylo ren family thing is revealed, just being spoonfed it in a conversation early on between kylo and his boss seems so dumb, there should have just been an obscure hint leading to a shock reveal later in the movie, maybe even in the confrontation/death scene
One big issue I have though is the how the kylo ren family thing is revealed, just being spoonfed it in a conversation early on between kylo and his boss seems so dumb, there should have just been an obscure hint leading to a shock reveal later in the movie, maybe even in the confrontation/death scene
WadiumArcadium
Member
No, its not. Driver killed it.
Possible but unnecessary, and the less senators and chancellors they throw into this trilogy, the better. Too much good stuff to focus on to even bother trying to create realistic politics. Good guys vs. bad guys. That's all we need.
Yes. Han Solo dying was predictable. It was telegraphed when he left Leia to go on the mission. It did have a massive emotional impact.
What people aren't considering is that it was necessary.
You can't have a new trilogy for a new generation if the old character are still playing the major roles.
When he died, the new heroes were there above him to witness it. The torch was fucking passed.
Admiral Woofington
Member
I'm assuming it's a mediocre/bad film and you're saying it so I don't get as hyped?
I think this is where having three films to play this out over will help. I get the sense, from the film and from Abrams, etc. that they have a lot of story and backstory to unpack, and deciding how much to put in TFA was a bit of a struggle. We can see that in this film, but I think it will come together by time we see the full story.
Starphoenix
Member
The way Leia put it in the movie somehow they sent Kylo to Snook to train over Luke. Makes me wonder if Snook was a Jedi with Luke before becoming power hungry?
Tom Nook Sawyer
Member
To clarify, I didn't say I want politics. I want context. I want to know why anything matters in this universe, and while it may involve a few political details, I don't want politics to be a major part of the screenplay--again, unlike the prequels
The ideal new Star Wars movie for these people would be Darth Vader coming back form the dead to battle Luke Skywalker.
Spoiler:
Those movies were already made 30 years ago.
I really like most of this actually. However, I'd really like to see Luke survive this sequel trilogy so we don't retread old ground and actually give us time to see how he has grown as a person and a jedi master. It would be more interesting for me for him to live with all of the consequences of his actions, and choose to change or accept them.
Leia: "Yeah, Ben went to Snoke training"
Han: "Snoke training ? I thought we were going to teach him snooker"
Leia: "Well I saw this ad in the paper for free Snoke training"
Han: "Dammit woman"
SlickShoesRUCrazy
Member
I'm still of the opinion that Rey will be Luke's daughter. That Luke and maybe another force sensitive person had her and when Kylo's training went south, she was left at Jukka because Luke foresaw what was coming/feared he may watch his own off spring go down the dark side.
I just hope whatever it is, it raises the stakes significantly and puts our new characters to the test. Basically, ESB but a little more screwed up (and of course, not outright copying it).
Not all Storm Troopers are clones, but some are.
When discussing Finn's rebellion, one of the officers questioned why they didn't use a "clone army".
See, I don't think it did though. He really wanted it to be, his motivation for doing it was that it would somehow "cleanse" him of being drawn to the light, but I interpreted his reaction more as shock that nothing changed.
It's like people forget that the political talk in A New Hope was done in less than in a minute.
A brief moment of contextual dialogue for the galactic situation would not have hurt this movie.
Admiral Woofington
Member
if they didn't mean it for Luke to be her father, then they really shouldn't have had the flashback to her parents leaving when she was getting the force sensitive vibes from the lightsaber.
eyeball_kid
Member
Abrams is either incapable or afraid of subtlety; he seems to think audiences are morons who can't put the pieces together. See also: removing all types of fighting ships from the movie except X-Wings and TIE Fighters because "people might get confused". Which is ironic considering he would've been 11 years old when ANH came out, and probably understood everything just fine.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I'm saying it because it's a great con/caper flick starring Adrien Brody and Mark Ruffalo that should give you a decent idea as to the versatility of Rian Johnson as a storyteller.
Simply expecting "THE DARK ONE" because he made Brick might be a lil too quick on the draw.
you're right... however, BLAME THE PREQUELS.
I don't think Abrams and crew were 100% correct in ignoring all of it (even some of my more SW scholared friends were confused) but I think if the word politics was heard within 100 yards of a theater playing the movie, people would have either
a) been gun shy from the prequels, or
b) related it to the current climate in the US and/or world
It was a little off putting, but it was the best thing they could have done in this movie.
With that being said, any newcomer coming to the movie won't care IN The SLIGHTEST. The only ones who care are us nerds, and we can (and will) look this shit up. Everyone else will just be like "good vs. evil rah rah rah."
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