[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #2) - One Thumb Up

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ghst said:
the force never felt like a superpower in the original trilogy. i keep using this word but there was something more mythical and organic to it, a religion mixed with a discipline. an advancement on zen buddhism in samurai culture.

in the TFA it completely feels like a marvel superpower.
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Vader forced choked someone to death on another ship through a viewscreen
 
ghst said:
the force never felt like a superpower in the original trilogy. i keep using this word but there was something more mythical and organic to it, a religion mixed with a discipline. an advancement on zen buddhism in samurai culture.

in the TFA it completely feels like a marvel superpower.
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I... can't really agree? TFA shows the Force in a more intense way, but the OT still showed Vader choking people with his mind, the Emperor shooting lightning out of his hands, Jedi mind tricks, making... uh, distraction noises, pulling and pushing things including big star fighters and guiding torpedoes into targets, fancy jumps, clairvoyance, telepathy (both sending messages and mind reading), blocking laser blasts, and being able to turn into an expository ghost. It was totally superpowers.
 
Divvy said:
I think if he was calm, and in his right mindset, Kylo would have smoked Rey. But he was unhinged, especially after killing Han, and getting wounded by Finn. He wasn't playing with a full deck against Rey. I had no problems with that fight.
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Its like getting tea bagged in Halo. You can throw your controller and stomp around like an 8 year old or brush it off and continue slaying. Ren was probably busy mentally composing a nasty message on XBL to Finn when Rey rekt him.
 
Bobby Roberts said:
But he doesn't go full on darkside. That's the good shit. He thought killing Han would make it easy - AND IT DIDN'T WORK. This is a man shown to be able to stop a bolt in mid air and pause a person across a battlefield with his BACK TURNED to them.

yet Chewie got a shot in him. Why? Because it didn't work. Because he's still a hollow, empty, selfish, stupid faker who doesn't understand that just pretending real hard amd wanting it real bad doesn't make you the thing you wanna be.

Hell, even his hail mary to Rey at the end "YOU NEED A TEACHER" is bullshit. He doesn't wanna teach her shit. He couldn't anyway. He's just faking again. Fronting.
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I think his character could have been done much better, but that's just my opinion. The way he came across in this movie was just weak and childish. Just wish the trailers would have given us a heads up on it.
 
Kylo Ren stopping that blaster in the beginning was really awesome. And the blood being smeared on Finns helmet. I was hoping the movie would have stayed that dark but I guess it could have been a bit much. Next movie though!
 
Data West said:
Kylo Ren is such a jobber that he's the first force-sensitive person to ever gotten hit by blaster fire.
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4947365-jango-fett-kills-coleman-o.gif
 
It's worth pointing out that much like Darth Vader duelling Luke in Empire that Kylo Ren's duel with Rey was more of a lesson than it was about killing her.

He asks her to join him for training at the precipice of a fall (just like Empire) and that's why he hesitates as she meditates, gains force clarity and fights back to wound him further.

I've seen a lot of people point out he doesn't feel pain from the Chewie blaster shot too. He clearly does, punching the wound in frustration/defiance twice in the encounter. It's also established he is bleeding heavily and he is pretty much dueling Rey with one healthy arm after Finn caught him with a reckless, wild swing.
 
Garlador said:
Kylo was what Anakin SHOULD have been. A proto-Vader who obviously is very troubled, very insecure, and whose desire for power and fear of emotional weakness drives him to purge the good from him.

Loved his tantrums and him pounding on his wound. He's a psychopath. He's not cool or collected; he's a loose cannon... and that makes him extremely interesting to me.
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YES YES! Kylo is a better Anakin than Anakin was lol.
 
The Emperor shooting lightning out of his fingers is actually pretty goddamned absurd if you think about it.

It works perfectly on that fairy-tale level Star Wars operates in, sure. But the idea the Force was somehow more grounded in the OT isn't all that applicable.
 
MassiveNights said:
I've seen a lot of people point out he doesn't feel pain from the Chewie blaster shot too. He clearly does, punching the wound in frustration/defiance twice in the encounter. It's also established he is bleeding heavily and he is pretty much dueling Rey with one healthy arm after Finn caught him with a reckless, wild swing.
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Did those people even watch the movie?
 
dragonyeuw said:
JUST got of the movie, a little LTTP seeing as we're already into an second spoiler thread. My first impression:

- Loved Finn and Rey, in particular wasnt expecting Finn to be written that way, a pleasant surprise with his youthful energy and exuberance. Rey seemed to develop her powers a bit too quickly from the 'awakening' part to the final showdown, but had no issues with her character and personality.

- From what Ive read around here, Poe seems to be a popular character. Seemed a little underdeveloped to me, but I suppose they had to push Rey and Finn to the fore, and Han's role was much bigger than I expected.

- Ren started off intriquing, for me some of the mystery went once he took off the mask. Also wasnt expecting him to be written so emotional, I LOLed when he was tearing apart the room with his saber, not sure if that was the intended effect. He did display some interesting force powers.

- Phasma was a big part of the marketing, very disappointing to see how small and insignficant her role was.

- I understand the story reasons behind the 'unskilled' saber battle, but for me it did make for a somewhat anticlimatic feeling. The death star attack rehash left me a little cold as well, certainly doesnt evoke the same feeling as when Luke saves the day at the end of ANH( which, to this day, gives me chills and Ive seen that film countless times).
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I agree with pretty much all your points; especially about Phasma. I want to see a lot of her in VIII.

I think the end felt great though, tbh. The destruction of Starkiller Base wasn't up to the level of the Death Star in IV but I loved the end fight between Finn then Rey vs. Ren.

I think I will forever be torn on this or A New Hope at #2 overall for me. ESB is #1 of course.
 
Toxi said:
- Ren started off intriquing, for me some of the mystery went once he took off the mask. Also wasnt expecting him to be written so emotional, I LOLed when he was tearing apart the room with his saber, not sure if that was the intended effect. He did display some interesting force powers.
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I'd say it was intentional, since both instances of him losing his cool are followed up by comedic moments.
 
The whole point of the shot showing Kylo Ren bleeding is to tell you he is weakened.

I found the part where Rey and team ran around the station without getting caught a lot more unbelievable.
 
EmCeeGramr said:
I... can't really agree? TFA shows the Force in a more intense way, but the OT still showed Vader choking people with his mind, the Emperor shooting lightning out of his hands, Jedi mind tricks, making... uh, distraction noises, pulling and pushing things including big star fighters and guiding torpedoes into targets, fancy jumps, clairvoyance, telepathy (both sending messages and mind reading), blocking laser blasts, and being able to turn into an expository ghost. It was totally superpowers.
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But in the sense that these "powers" were not like in the traditional superhero comic sense, as they were mostly manifestation of the characters's will and not like "He has attained X level in force training, he now has super speed, strength and mind control". I always saw it mostly as a miracle machine, with certain manifestation (like lightning) being kinda just the personified power of Palpatine rather than just a skill you'd learn on the force skill tree.

It's more here for narrative and character reason than explicitely being a super power
 
MassiveNights said:
It's worth pointing out that much like Darth Vader duelling Luke in Empire that Kylo Ren's duel with Rey was more of a lesson than it was about killing her.

He asks her to join him for training at the precipice of a fall (just like Empire) and that's why he hesitates as she meditates, gains force clarity and fights back to wound him further.

I've seen a lot of people point out he doesn't feel pain from the Chewie blaster shot too. He clearly does, punching the wound in frustration/defiance twice in the encounter. It's also established he is bleeding heavily and he is pretty much dueling Rey with one healthy arm after Finn caught him with a reckless, wild swing.
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Yup. I think I said this earlier. I don't think he wanted to kill her. Snoke even told him to bring the girl to him. His comment about "teaching" her solidified that. I don't think his main goal was to kill her anyway.
 
Bobby Roberts said:
The Emperor shooting lightning out of his fingers is actually pretty goddamned absurd if you think about it.

It works perfectly on that fairy-tale level Star Wars operates in, sure. But the idea the Force was somehow more grounded in the OT isn't all that applicable.
Click to expand...
I liked the observation that it was just the sort of absurdly evil power the emperor had because he thought anything else was beneath him (ie, he kept calling Luke's lightsaber a "Jedi weapon" in a condescending way) before the EU and games and prequels established it as Force Lightning(tm), the level 15 perk on the Sith skill tree.
 
Dice said:
You have to remember that the force isn't just a thing to be used by those who are skilled, it is a thing that also moves itself upon individuals. She was fated and called to through the lightsaber. That wasn't Luke calling her, it was the force itself, as explained by Maz. So then at the worst moment of pressure from the dark side through Kylo, the light side of the force surged and impressed itself upon her as a supernatural resistance of galactic implications in the long term. That wasn't Rey's awakening, it was the force itself awakening through her. Neither of them really understood what was happening in that moment.
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I'm well aware of how the Force works, trust me. I've sunk an embarassing amount of time into the lore. I know that it can move individuals to do things that otherwise wouldn't be possible.

The thing is, thus far, drawing power from the Force had to be earned. Controling it had to be earned. It required training and discipline. Not even Anakin, who was Force Jesus, and amongst the strongest Force users of all time, could manage without training.

There are a million different ways that final showdown could've gone down in which Rey used the Force and defeated Ren without neutering his character. Pulling the lightsaber out of the snow should have been enough. If Rey then fought and beat him by exploiting his physical wounds, there really wouldn't have been much of an issue.

But Ren's wounds, while a source of pain that slowed him down, didn't prevent him from fighting. He was deliberate with Finn, and finished him off in seconds after getting knicked. When he went after Rey, he maintained the same fancy choreography, he was swinging and missing, not because he was inaccurate but because he was slow. They should have stayed with that. The movie already established Rey is tough and can scrap. I would have no problems with her fucking up Ren by fighting dirty and/or exploiting his weakness.

Rey winning because she was tough and smart and scrappy would have been a much more satisfying end to that fight than her just finding her zen and hitting the "I win" Force button because, for some reason, she just can.
 
Bobby Roberts said:
The Emperor shooting lightning out of his fingers is actually pretty goddamned absurd if you think about it.

It works perfectly on that fairy-tale level Star Wars operates in, sure. But the idea the Force was somehow more grounded in the OT isn't all that applicable.
Click to expand...

yeah, the force definitely wasn't like a marvel superpower in the OT..



ff83475bf052f071e718e6cfe1fa9c5f.jpg
 
I loved everything about Kylo Ren. The voice, the helmet, the lightsaber, the motivations, the personality. The fact that people are complaining that he doesn't look EVIL ENOUGH is absurd to me.
 
Quote said:
The whole point of the shot showing Kylo Ren bleeding is to tell you he is weakened.

I found the part where Rey and team ran around the station without getting caught a lot more unbelievable.
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The first order doesn't believe in security cameras
 
Ishida said:
That's one of the reasons I liked the PT. It showed that the Jedi, even in their prime, were not invincible. That particular scene in Geonosis was amazing.
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We already knew the Jedi weren't invincible. They were all fucking dead in the originals.

The only thing the prequels did for the Jedi was turn them stupid and petty.
 
EmCeeGramr said:
I... can't really agree? TFA shows the Force in a more intense way, but the OT still showed Vader choking people with his mind, the Emperor shooting lightning out of his hands, Jedi mind tricks, making... uh, distraction noises, pulling and pushing things including big star fighters and guiding torpedoes into targets, fancy jumps, clairvoyance, telepathy (both sending messages and mind reading), blocking laser blasts, and being able to turn into an expository ghost. It was totally superpowers.
Click to expand...

but none of these were just innate gifted functions.

take luke for examplet, he can basically do fuck all with just knowledge of the force, it's just a mythical notion that he takes a while to be convinced by. putting his faith in it, he makes a lucky shot that would've been tricky but not impossible.

by the second film, he can just about pull a lightsabre towards him if he really thinks about it and lift a few rocks after some training.

the big force showcase in jedi, where he's a full blown jedi badman, is lifting a robot in a chair a few feet off the ground.

you feel like he's piecing together bits of an ancient wisdom as he goes along, learning disciplines through his experiences. he doesn't just have THE FORCE and then suddenly becomes FORCE MAN who can do all kinds of mental out there superpower shit.
 
Quote said:
The whole point of the shot showing Kylo Ren bleeding is to tell you he is weakened.

I found the part where Rey and team ran around the station without getting caught a lot more unbelievable.
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Yea, like the part where Han/Chewie/Finn teleport to Rey after they see her through the window.
 
And was I the only one thinking 'GI Joe' the entire time with the First Order?

Hux was Destro
Phasma was Barroness
Ren was Cobra Commander
 
lastplayed said:
It does echo Qui-Gon's reaction to Anakin saying Jedi can't be killed.
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That's exactly what I thought during the marathon I did of all 6 movies before Episode VII. :)

Pai Pai Master said:
We already knew the Jedi weren't invincible. They were all fucking dead in the originals.

The only thing the prequels did for the Jedi was turn them stupid and petty.
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Not at all. But indeed they also showed them to be pretty misguided and blind. I really appreciate that.
 
Frog-fu said:
I'm well aware of how the Force works, trust me. I've sunk an embarassing amount of time into the lore. I know that it can move individuals to do things that otherwise wouldn't be possible.

The thing is, thus far, drawing power from the Force had to be earned. Controling it had to be earned. It required training and discipline. Not even Anakin, who was Force Jesus, and amongst the strongest Force users of all time, could manage without training.

There are a million different ways that final showdown could've gone down in which Rey used the Force and defeated Ren without neutering his character. Pulling the lightsaber out of the snow should have been enough. If Rey then fought and beat him by exploiting his physical wounds, there really wouldn't have been much of an issue.

But Ren's wounds, while a source of pain that slowed him down, didn't prevent him from fighting. He was deliberate with Finn, and finished him off in seconds after getting knicked. When he went after Rey, he maintained the same fancy choreography, he was swinging and missing, not because he was inaccurate but because he was slow. They should have stayed with that. The movie already established Rey is tough and can scrap. I would have no problems with her fucking up Ren by fighting dirty and/or exploiting his weakness.

Rey winning because she was tough and smart and scrappy would have been a much more satisfying end to that fight than her just finding her zen and hitting the "I win" Force button because, for some reason, she just can.
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I think that scene was very important.

It showed two things:

A) She is learning to control her powers, and is clearly very powerful

B) She was already close to a match to Ren in terms of fighting skill, but her finding her "center" and calm was powerful enough to overwhelm Ren's anger (while also allowing for the fact that Ren was in a weakened state).

It ended up conveying that Ren at top health and Rey at top health at their best would be a pretty fucking epic fight, IMO.
 
Jack Scofield said:
I loved everything about Kylo Ren. The voice, the helmet, the lightsaber, the motivations, the personality. The fact that people are complaining that he doesn't look EVIL ENOUGH is absurd to me.
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Kylo Ren might be my favorite character. Him and Rey were top notch
 
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