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[CreepingFear]

Maybe that's why Kylo Ren is so angry.

"GODDAMNIT NOT AGAIN"

That's why the Stormtroopers backed off. They were worried that Ren found out about them pissing in his coffee.

 

[Quote]

Did we already talk about the awesome Storm Trooper with the shock baton that fought Finn? Why didn't they make that Phasma!?

 

[sn00zer]

I only saw the movie once, but I am cetain that Han makes this pose when falling to his death

 

[Divvy]

Then you wouldn't be able to piss into Kylo Ren's coffee.

I think Kylo is really more of a Monster energy drink kind of guy

 

[-griffy-]

but none of these were just innate gifted functions.

take luke for examplet, he can basically do fuck all with just knowledge of the force, it's just a mythical notion that he takes a while to be convinced by. putting his faith in it, he makes a lucky shot that would've been tricky but not impossible.

by the second film, he can just about pull a lightsabre towards him if he really thinks about it and lift a few rocks after some training.

the big force showcase in jedi, where he's a full blown jedi badman, is lifting a robot in a chair a few feet off the ground.

you feel like he's piecing together bits of an ancient wisdom as he goes along, learning disciplines through his experiences. he doesn't just have THE FORCE and then suddenly becomes FORCE MAN who can do all kinds of mental out there superpower shit.

I would think Rey's abilities in the film are demonstrating that she's extremely powerful in the force. By far more than Luke was before he went through training. Like, I thought that was an obvious implication. It's the main deduction you make when you observe her in this movie compared to other people learning to use the force, no?

 

[Blargonaut]

fuck

The more I think about it, the more it makes eventual sense:

• Captain Phasma = Snoke
  
• Finn = First Order double agent
  
• Finn infiltrates the Resistance, gains Rey's trust
  
• The Phasma-Finn encounter in Starkiller Base was all a ruse, set up to build up Finn's credibility to the Resistance by allowing Han and Chewie to witness Finn "helping out" by "forcing" Phasma/Snoke to lower the shields
  
• Phasma let the shields down on purpose and allowed Starkiller Base to be destroyed, because she already got what she wanted out of it (the destruction of the New Republic planets), and basically sacrificed Starkiller Base to lure the Resistance into a false sense of security in victory while the First Order and the Knights of Ren continue their work in secret
  
• Phasma uses the Snoke 'Space Voldemort' hologram as an avatar and uses a voice modulator with it, effectively hiding her identity as the First Order's Supreme Leader
  
• Double agent Finn secretly keeps Phasma/Snoke updated on Rey's Jedi training progress with Luke, while Phasma, after revealing herself to Kylo Ren as 'Snoke', finishes up his Dark Side training
  
• Phasma/Snoke uses Rey's eventual discovery of Finn's betrayal to push Rey over into the Dark Side; Rey becomes the new Dark apprentice, and Kylo Ren, now pushed to the wayside by everyone, returns to the Light after a bit of soul-searching, and kills Phasma/Snoke in the process
  
• The final climactic encounter is a reformed Kylo Ren trying to save Dark Rey from the temptation of the Dark Side as he is trying to repent for killing his father Han

 

[Shaanyboi]

I loved everything about Kylo Ren. The voice, the helmet, the lightsaber, the motivations, the personality. The fact that people are complaining that he doesn't look EVIL ENOUGH is absurd to me.

He's easily the most complex character in Star Wars yet. I refuse to acknowledge Anakin's dumb ass turn to the dark side.

fuck

The more I think about it, the more it makes eventual sense:

• Captain Phasma = Snoke
  
• Finn = First Order double agent
  
• Finn infiltrates the Resistance, gains Rey's trust
  
• The Phasma-Finn encounter in Starkiller Base was all a ruse, set up to build up Finn's credibility to the Resistance by allowing Han and Chewie to witness Finn "helping out" by "forcing" Phasma/Snoke to lower the shields
  
• Phasma let the shields down on purpose and allowed Starkiller Base to be destroyed, because she already got what she wanted out of it (the destruction of the New Republic planets), and basically sacrificed Starkiller Base to lure the Resistance into a false sense of security in victory while the First Order and the Knights of Ren continue their work in secret
  
• Phasma uses the Snoke 'Space Voldemort' hologram as an avatar and uses a voice modulator with it, effectively hiding her identity as the First Order's Supreme Leader
  
• Double agent Finn secretly keeps Phasma/Snoke updated on Rey's Jedi training progress with Luke, while Phasma, after revealing herself to Kylo Ren as 'Snoke', finishes up his Dark Side training
  
• Phasma/Snoke uses Rey's eventual discovery of Finn's betrayal to push Rey over into the Dark Side; Rey becomes the new Dark apprentice, and Kylo Ren, now pushed to the wayside by everyone, returns to the Light after a bit of soul-searching, and kills Phasma/Snoke in the process
  
• The final climactic encounter is a reformed Kylo Ren trying to save Dark Rey from the temptation of the Dark Side as he is trying to repent for killing his father Han

....maybe it's time to get some sleep.

 

[QuantumZebra]

How many different ways can a person even fall lol.

We're in that weird post-release purgatory that good films find themselves in; where people are reaching out to the furthest branches to find things to critique.

 

[Boke1879]

Soo.. New lightsaber and mask for kylo in the next movie? Um guessing hes getting a stable lightsaber this time?

He'll definitely have a scar on his face. It'll be interesting to see if he drops the mask completely. I would assume after killing Han and being best. Snoke will fully train him. It would be kinda cool if he drops the mask to showcase his scar/battle wounds.

 

[facetheslayer92]

Saw it Saturday morning. Good movie, not great. Disney played it very safe. I would've liked to see George Lucas's take on Episode 7. Wonder if they're just setting up a ball of suspense in Episode 8. I've heard Snoke and Rey might be related. Say what you want about Lucas and the prequels, but at least he had an original vision. Poe Dameron was absolutely perfect. The cinematography was good too.

 

[Boke1879]

fuck

The more I think about it, the more it makes eventual sense:

• Captain Phasma = Snoke
  
• Finn = First Order double agent
  
• Finn infiltrates the Resistance, gains Rey's trust
  
• The Phasma-Finn encounter in Starkiller Base was all a ruse, set up to build up Finn's credibility to the Resistance by allowing Han and Chewie to witness Finn "helping out" by "forcing" Phasma/Snoke to lower the shields
  
• Phasma let the shields down on purpose and allowed Starkiller Base to be destroyed, because she already got what she wanted out of it (the destruction of the New Republic planets), and basically sacrificed Starkiller Base to lure the Resistance into a false sense of security in victory while the First Order and the Knights of Ren continue their work in secret
  
• Phasma uses the Snoke 'Space Voldemort' hologram as an avatar and uses a voice modulator with it, effectively hiding her identity as the First Order's Supreme Leader
  
• Double agent Finn secretly keeps Phasma/Snoke updated on Rey's Jedi training progress with Luke, while Phasma, after revealing herself to Kylo Ren as 'Snoke', finishes up his Dark Side training
  
• Phasma/Snoke uses Rey's eventual discovery of Finn's betrayal to push Rey over into the Dark Side; Rey becomes the new Dark apprentice, and Kylo Ren, now pushed to the wayside by everyone, returns to the Light after a bit of soul-searching, and kills Phasma/Snoke in the process
  
• The final climactic encounter is a reformed Kylo Ren trying to save Dark Rey from the temptation of the Dark Side as he is trying to repent for killing his father Han

This isn't a Metal Gear Solid thread.

 

[CreepingFear]

I think Kylo is really more of a Monster energy drink kind of guy

Nah, since Kyle is all about his grandaddy and the good old days, he is a hipster that grinds his own coffee beans.

 

[bananafactory]

We're in that weird post-release purgatory that good films find themselves in; where people are reaching out to the furthest branches to find things to critique.

It's like when the first teaser hit and all people could criticize was the lightsaber design


Hopefully some time and distance will let the hyperbole fade a bit

 

[Darknight]

Saw it on IMAX 3D.

Worth it.

I was sure Rey was Luke's daughter but it appears she isnt. Cool!

 

[BTM]

fuck

The more I think about it, the more it makes eventual sense:

• Captain Phasma = Snoke
• Finn = First Order double agent
• Finn infiltrates the Resistance, gains Rey's trust
• The Phasma-Finn encounter in Starkiller Base was all a ruse, set up to build up Finn's credibility to the Resistance by allowing Han and Chewie to witness Finn "helping out" by "forcing" Phasma/Snoke to lower the shields
• Phasma let the shields down on purpose and allowed Starkiller Base to be destroyed, because she already got what she wanted out of it (the destruction of the New Republic planets), and basically sacrificed Starkiller Base to lure the Resistance into a false sense of security in victory while the First Order and the Knights of Ren continue their work in secret
• Phasma uses the Snoke 'Space Voldemort' hologram as an avatar and uses a voice modulator with it, effectively hiding her identity as the First Order's Supreme Leader
• Double agent Finn secretly keeps Phasma/Snoke updated on Rey's Jedi training progress with Luke, while Phasma, after revealing herself to Kylo Ren as 'Snoke', finishes up his Dark Side training
• Phasma/Snoke uses Rey's eventual discovery of Finn's betrayal to push Rey over into the Dark Side; Rey becomes the new Dark apprentice, and Kylo Ren, now pushed to the wayside by everyone, returns to the Light after a bit of soul-searching, and kills Phasma/Snoke in the process
• The final climactic encounter is a reformed Kylo Ren trying to save Dark Rey from the temptation of the Dark Side as he is trying to repent for killing his father Han

But what about when they try to shoot down Poe/Finn when escaping? And then the bombing once Finn is with Rey in that little village? How did Phasma know that they would survive?

 

[MMarston]

This isn't a Metal Gear Solid thread.

Picture of early concept art for Finn

 

[Frog-fu]

Snoke is also likely a big fat manipulative liar. You could read that a couple ways:

"You, Master of the Knights of Ren..." - pumping up a self-important fan who thinks his crew of foot soldiers is really formidable when they're all like the South Park kids in Fun Time with Weapons.

or

"You, Master of the Knights of Ren.." - reminding Kylo that being Master of the Knights of Ren didn't quite mean shit when Luke Skywalker wiped his ass with them. Sorta like "Congratulations on holding your bullshit title, step up your game jackass, you're with me now."

or your read, which is that Snoke is obviously a badass, and so is Kylo, and their badassery should be taken as read based on nothing other than the fact Snoke said so, and he had to have a straightforward reason for that.

What makes Kylo a threat isn't necessarily that he's strong. It's that he believes, above all, that being a shitty person at all times is the only way he can be true to himself. Which means you can't appeal to his better nature, that'll just piss him off, and he'll never actually turn, because then he'll have to admit what a stupid fuck he's been and he'd rather you eat shit than him admit his obvious wrongdoing. There's an inherent desperation there that makes his irrationality very, very dangerous.

Maybe you're right and Snoke is purely feeding Ren's ego in that scene. Maybe Ren is actually not that powerful in the grand scheme of things, hard as that may be to believe. Maybe Ren's strenght isn't even in dueling.

You could be right about all of this and yet that doesn't change the fact Ren is a grown adult with training and Rey is 19 year old that has never held a lightsaber or used the Force before.

My suspension of disbelief tends to be rather generous, but given everything I know from having watched and read Star Wars since I was kid, and having seen that fight three times now, twice with a critical eye hoping to somehow justify it, I have come to the conclusion that I just don't buy it. I think it's stupid, I think Rey's victory was premature, unearned and undermines any threat Ren may pose going forward.

You don't agree with that, fine. We still both really like the film. We still both really like the characters. It's whatever.

It is. He's obviously beaten every other force talent he's found and either taken their allegiance in exchange for tutelage or killed them. It's kind of his thing.

Hot damn, up until now I had just assumed the Knights of Ren were just other students to Snoke but this sounds so much better and puts Ren's attempt to recruit Rey is such a different and much more refreshing and interesting context.

 

[Quote]

fuck

The more I think about it, the more it makes eventual sense:

• Captain Phasma = Snoke
  
• Finn = First Order double agent
  
• Finn infiltrates the Resistance, gains Rey's trust
  
• The Phasma-Finn encounter in Starkiller Base was all a ruse, set up to build up Finn's credibility to the Resistance by allowing Han and Chewie to witness Finn "helping out" by "forcing" Phasma/Snoke to lower the shields
  
• Phasma let the shields down on purpose and allowed Starkiller Base to be destroyed, because she already got what she wanted out of it (the destruction of the New Republic planets), and basically sacrificed Starkiller Base to lure the Resistance into a false sense of security in victory while the First Order and the Knights of Ren continue their work in secret
  
• Phasma uses the Snoke 'Space Voldemort' hologram as an avatar and uses a voice modulator with it, effectively hiding her identity as the First Order's Supreme Leader
  
• Double agent Finn secretly keeps Phasma/Snoke updated on Rey's Jedi training progress with Luke, while Phasma, after revealing herself to Kylo Ren as 'Snoke', finishes up his Dark Side training
  
• Phasma/Snoke uses Rey's eventual discovery of Finn's betrayal to push Rey over into the Dark Side; Rey becomes the new Dark apprentice, and Kylo Ren, now pushed to the wayside by everyone, returns to the Light after a bit of soul-searching, and kills Phasma/Snoke in the process
  
• The final climactic encounter is a reformed Kylo Ren trying to save Dark Rey from the temptation of the Dark Side as he is trying to repent for killing his father Han

Finn had no reason to not kill those civilians in the beginning if this was he case.

Kylo Ren is as good as dead at the end of all this. In a large audience, safe franchise like Star Wars, you can't let someone who killed that many people become a good guy.

 

[ReadingRambo]

We're in that weird post-release purgatory that good films find themselves in; where people are reaching out to the furthest branches to find things to critique.

Some thread highlights include:
- bb8-gate (#teamnoclip)
- stormtroopers shouldn't know any jokes
- Mary Sue Mary Sue Mary Sue Mary Sue
- Adam Driver is too ugly

 

[Armaros]

It's like when the first teaser hit and all people could criticize was the lightsaber design


Hopefully some time and distance will let the hyperbole fade a bit

They even showed how Ren's light saber had a functional use in his battle with Finn.

 

[Professor Lich]

At this rate the main villain of episode 10 is going to be some pouty 15 year old who only does what he does in hopes some girl will like him.

 

[ghst]

I would think Rey's abilities in the film are demonstrating that she's extremely powerful in the force. By far more than Luke was before he went through training. Like, I thought that was an obvious implication. It's the main deduction you make when you observe her in this movie compared to other people learning to use the force, no?

in the OT, i always thought of the force being strong with someone meant that you had the capacity to become proficient in it. it still took long years of discipline and study. that's what made yoda so cranky at the idea of this luke punk assuming he had what it took because he's got good genes or whatever.

this whole the force is stronger with x than y that's why they get a +4 on their force persuasion abilities is just midichlorians by another name.

 

[140.85]

the force never felt like a superpower in the original trilogy. i keep using this word but there was something more mythical and organic to it, a religion mixed with a discipline. an advancement on zen buddhism in samurai culture.

in the TFA it completely feels like a marvel superpower.

It's like we watched completely different films. With TFA, the force finally feels like the mystical and magical force it was portrayed as in the OT again.

 

[MMarston]

At this rate the main villain of episode 10 is going to be some pouty 15 year old who only does what he does in hopes some girl will like him.

this was technically Episode II/III

 

[CreepingFear]

Saw it on IMAX 3D.

Worth it.

I was sure Rey was Luke's daughter but it appears she isnt. Cool!

Come on, there is no definitive evidence either way. There is more evidence to point to her being his daughter than the contrary. The tears she has in her eyes when she meets him, his expression on his face, the fact that the lightsaber was anakins, luke's and now hers, Aunt Leia(credit to Bobby)giving her a hug.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

but none of these were just innate gifted functions.

take luke for examplet, he can basically do fuck all with just knowledge of the force, it's just a mythical notion that he takes a while to be convinced by. putting his faith in it, he makes a lucky shot that would've been tricky but not impossible.

by the second film, he can just about pull a lightsabre towards him if he really thinks about it and lift a few rocks after some training.

the big force showcase in jedi, where he's a full blown jedi badman, is lifting a robot in a chair a few feet off the ground.

you feel like he's piecing together bits of an ancient wisdom as he goes along, learning disciplines through his experiences. he doesn't just have THE FORCE and then suddenly becomes FORCE MAN who can do all kinds of mental out there superpower shit.

Again, I disagree. Other than during Jedi, all of Luke's "training" in ANH and ESB is like a week's worth of Obi Wan and Yoda telling him to reach out and feel stuff with his innate superpowers, and then he can do that stuff better. He can make that "lucky shot" while Vader is talking about how Luke clearly has the Force with him, and his training at that point was blocking blaster shots while Obi-Wan is telling him that he just has to use the Force.

Heck, Yoda even says that Luke's training will be complete when he faces Vader; the Jedi training is about focusing your mind and spirit to reject the Dark Side, not gathering XP to learn how to do new tricks.

 

[The One and Done™]

fuck

The more I think about it, the more it makes eventual sense:

• Captain Phasma = Snoke
  
• Finn = First Order double agent
  
• Finn infiltrates the Resistance, gains Rey's trust
  
• The Phasma-Finn encounter in Starkiller Base was all a ruse, set up to build up Finn's credibility to the Resistance by allowing Han and Chewie to witness Finn "helping out" by "forcing" Phasma/Snoke to lower the shields
  
• Phasma let the shields down on purpose and allowed Starkiller Base to be destroyed, because she already got what she wanted out of it (the destruction of the New Republic planets), and basically sacrificed Starkiller Base to lure the Resistance into a false sense of security in victory while the First Order and the Knights of Ren continue their work in secret
  
• Phasma uses the Snoke 'Space Voldemort' hologram as an avatar and uses a voice modulator with it, effectively hiding her identity as the First Order's Supreme Leader
  
• Double agent Finn secretly keeps Phasma/Snoke updated on Rey's Jedi training progress with Luke, while Phasma, after revealing herself to Kylo Ren as 'Snoke', finishes up his Dark Side training
  
• Phasma/Snoke uses Rey's eventual discovery of Finn's betrayal to push Rey over into the Dark Side; Rey becomes the new Dark apprentice, and Kylo Ren, now pushed to the wayside by everyone, returns to the Light after a bit of soul-searching, and kills Phasma/Snoke in the process
  
• The final climactic encounter is a reformed Kylo Ren trying to save Dark Rey from the temptation of the Dark Side as he is trying to repent for killing his father Han

RKO OUTTA NOWHERE

 

[d1rtn4p]

It's like when the first teaser hit and all people could criticize was the lightsaber design


Hopefully some time and distance will let the hyperbole fade a bit

I thought the first teaser was the best thing to come out of all of this.I liked the lightsaber design. It looked old, so I thought he was to be some kinda ancient evil or something hehe. Shame most of the shots from the teaser didn't even make it into the movie.

 

[Toxi]

We're in that weird post-release purgatory that good films find themselves in; where people are reaching out to the furthest branches to find things to critique.

Gee, I wasn't serious guys.

At this rate the main villain of episode 10 is going to be some pouty 15 year old who only does what he does in hopes some girl will like him.

this was technically Episode II/III

DAMN, that's some shade.

 

[Professor Lich]

this was technically Episode II/III

Damnit, I forgot. Can't believe I was beaten to the punch by Lucas!

 

[Secret Fawful]

Some people complain about poetry in VII, but remember that time Chewie saved Yoda from Order 66?

 

[Divvy]

Nah, since Kyle is all about his grandaddy and the good old days, he is a hipster that grinds his own coffee beans.

Touché

 

[Skunkers]

fuck

The more I think about it, the more it makes eventual sense:

• Captain Phasma = Snoke
  
• Finn = First Order double agent
  
• Finn infiltrates the Resistance, gains Rey's trust
  
• The Phasma-Finn encounter in Starkiller Base was all a ruse, set up to build up Finn's credibility to the Resistance by allowing Han and Chewie to witness Finn "helping out" by "forcing" Phasma/Snoke to lower the shields
  
• Phasma let the shields down on purpose and allowed Starkiller Base to be destroyed, because she already got what she wanted out of it (the destruction of the New Republic planets), and basically sacrificed Starkiller Base to lure the Resistance into a false sense of security in victory while the First Order and the Knights of Ren continue their work in secret
  
• Phasma uses the Snoke 'Space Voldemort' hologram as an avatar and uses a voice modulator with it, effectively hiding her identity as the First Order's Supreme Leader
  
• Double agent Finn secretly keeps Phasma/Snoke updated on Rey's Jedi training progress with Luke, while Phasma, after revealing herself to Kylo Ren as 'Snoke', finishes up his Dark Side training
  
• Phasma/Snoke uses Rey's eventual discovery of Finn's betrayal to push Rey over into the Dark Side; Rey becomes the new Dark apprentice, and Kylo Ren, now pushed to the wayside by everyone, returns to the Light after a bit of soul-searching, and kills Phasma/Snoke in the process
  
• The final climactic encounter is a reformed Kylo Ren trying to save Dark Rey from the temptation of the Dark Side as he is trying to repent for killing his father Han

Not exactly a great plan to make yourself appear as a weak underling when Kylo Ren is known to apparently kill people when he's mad.

 

[Frog-fu]

I think that scene was very important.

It showed two things:

A) She is learning to control her powers, and is clearly very powerful

B) She was already close to a match to Ren in terms of fighting skill, but her finding her "center" and calm was powerful enough to overwhelm Ren's anger (while also allowing for the fact that Ren was in a weakened state).

It ended up conveying that Ren at top health and Rey at top health at their best would be a pretty fucking epic fight, IMO.

That is precisely the problem.

Every known Force sensitive character in the history of canoncial Star Wars lore had to be trained. They didn't just master their abilities out of nowhere. It had to be earned. They had to practice at it. Train at it. Put real time and real effort into it. Rey did none of that.

And how exactly does it make sense that a girl that fights with a staff could compete with a highly dangerous swordsmen when she herself is using a sword for the same time?

Rey is just instantly leveled up. She doesn't have to earn xp. It's like she just entered in cheat codes and jumped ahead. I hate that aspect about her character. It doesn't outweigh what I love about her or what Daisy Ridley brings to the role, but it's definitely a problem for me.

 

[Darknight]

Come on, there is no definitive evidence either way. There is more evidence to point to her being his daughter than the contrary. The tears she has in her eyes when she meets him, his expression on his face, the fact that the lightsaber was anakins, luke's and now hers, Aunt Leia(credit to Bobby)giving her a hug.

Oh i read her last name is something with an "L"? Hmm so maybe she just had her mother's last name to keep her safe?? I mean Im all for her being Luke's kid. That would be bad ass!! I hope so. She is kick ass and reminds me of him. (they share lots of traits i think)

Edit: I was hoping the movie ended with Luke using the force to grab the light saber from her in a "Im back" way, and holding it for a sec and BOOM. ENDS. *cries*

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Heck, Yoda even says that Luke's training will be complete when he faces Vader; the Jedi training is about focusing your mind and spirit to reject the Dark Side, not gathering XP to learn how to do new tricks.

Luke's road to Jedi-hood basically consists of:

getting shot in the ass for five minutes on the Falcon
Killing a Wampa
Doing a LOT of calisthenics with a muppet on his back.
getting switched by his dad.
Building a lightsaber
Wilding out on a boat
Deciding not to kill his dad.

The Original Trilogy makes a pretty good argument that what's necessary to being a good Jedi isn't physical training of any kind, but more or less being really, really good at just paying attention to the Force, which lets you do the things you want to do at will.

 

[Red]

In a large audience, safe franchise like Star Wars, you can't let someone who killed that many people become a good guy.

One word for you: Darth Vader.

 

[Quote]

One word for you: Darth Vader.

He died.

To clarify, they can become good but they will die in the process. They will not to get to live any sort of life as a good guy.

 

[Fata1moose]

What if Rey is Obi-Wan's daughter and she was frozen in carbonite?

There are two instances of Obi-Wan shouting "Rey!" and "Rey … these are your first steps."
Could be a vision of what's to come interacting with a force ghost or it could be a flashback.

 

[Veelk]

One word for you: Darth Vader.

That's not one word.

 

[Red]

He died.

To clarify, they can become good but they will die in the process. They will not to get to live any sort of life as a good guy.

And proceeded to kick it with Yoda and Obi Wan throwing down Bud Lights while nodding to yub nub

 

[ReadingRambo]

That is precisely the problem.

Every known Force sensitive character in the history of canoncial Star Wars lore had to be trained. They didn't just master their abilities out of nowhere. It had to be earned. They had to practice at it. Train at it. Put real time and real effort into it. Rey did none of that.

And how exactly does it make sense that a girl that fights with a staff could compete with a highly dangerous swordsmen when she herself is using a sword for the same time?


Rey is just instantly leveled up. She doesn't have to earn xp. It's like she just entered in cheat codes and jumped ahead. I hate that aspect about her character. It doesn't outweigh what I love about her or what Daisy Ridley brings to the role, but it's definitely a problem for me.

Sure let's ignore that it took three tries for the mind trick to work and the fact that she fought a weakened Kylo (movie took pains to show how strong the bowcaster is, even shows Kylo bleeding on the snow in case you missed him getting shot 3 minutes earlier.

 

[-griffy-]

in the OT, i always thought of the force being strong with someone meant that you had the capacity to become proficient in it. it still took long years of discipline and study. that's what made yoda so cranky at the idea of this luke punk assuming he had what it took because he's got good genes or whatever.

this whole the force is stronger with x than y that's why they get a +4 on their force persuasion abilities is just midichlorians by another name.

Well the other part is that it kind of acts like adrenaline, right? When you're in an extreme situation, it kind of uncorks and let's you do crazy stuff even if you have no training, like making a blind impossible shot from an X-wing to blow up the Death Star. Rey was in an even more stressful situation than Luke was in ANH by the time she was dueling with Kylo, and earlier she had a jacking into the Matrix "I know kung fu" session when he was digging into her mind. To me that scene when they were struggling back and forth during the interrogation and she came out on top and freaked him out, that was like her going deep into his mind and seeing all this force shit and a light bulb going off like "Oh shit, I can do all this crap."

So by the time we get back to her pulling Luke's saber over, after her surrogate dad has just been murdered and her new best friend has just been cut down and the entire planet they are on is in the process of blowing up before it destroys several more planets after eating a sun, she's riding a force high that Luke in ANH can only fucking dream of.

 

[Quote]

Sure let's ignore that it took three tries for the mind trick to work and the fact that she fought a weakened Kylo (movie took pains to show how strong the bowcaster is, even shows Kylo bleeding on the snow in case you missed him getting shot 3 minutes earlier.

Exactly. It's quite annoying how much they had to spell stuff out but clearly they did and it still wasn't good enough.

I remembering thinking "why is Han after all these years obsessed with Chewies gun now". And boom.

 

[dragonyeuw]

I agree with pretty much all your points; especially about Phasma. I want to see a lot of her in VIII.

I think the end felt great though, tbh. The destruction of Starkiller Base wasn't up to the level of the Death Star in IV but I loved the end fight between Finn then Rey vs. Ren.

I think I will forever be torn on this or A New Hope at #2 overall for me. ESB is #1 of course.

I'm going to have to see how I feel about the ending in subsequent viewings, this is just first impressions. If I had to give a ranking right now, definitely above the PT and I'd agree that its arguable between this and ANH for #2.

 

[Armaros]

Sure let's ignore that it took three tries for the mind trick to work and the fact that she fought a weakened Kylo (movie took pains to show how strong the bowcaster is, even shows Kylo bleeding on the snow in case you missed him getting shot 3 minutes earlier.

Along with Finn getting one good hit in their lightsaber battle.

 

[Toa TAK]

That's not one word.

Maybe if we hyphen it.

 

[Data West]

The duel with Ren and Rey didn't bother me. Like, I could tell they were twerps at being jedi/sith and that a Luke or Vader would mop the floor with either of them and that Ren was working while injured. Ren is established like that the entire movie. Honestly, most of the First Order seems like they're a pale shell of the original empire and I like to think that's the intention.

My problem was Rey's magical Millennium Falcon piloting abilities.

 

[Arkeband]

Come on, there is no definitive evidence either way. There is more evidence to point to her being his daughter than the contrary. The tears she has in her eyes when she meets him, his expression on his face, the fact that the lightsaber was anakins, luke's and now hers, Aunt Leia(credit to Bobby)giving her a hug.

Let's not forget the freaking trailer narration where Luke literally says "my father had it, I had it, my sister had it, and you have it."

Which DIDN'T appear in the movie, so it will probably make an appearance next movie during training.

That is precisely the problem.

Every known Force sensitive character in the history of canoncial Star Wars lore had to be trained. They didn't just master their abilities out of nowhere. It had to be earned. They had to practice at it. Train at it. Put real time and real effort into it. Rey did none of that.

And how exactly does it make sense that a girl that fights with a staff could compete with a highly dangerous swordsmen when she herself is using a sword for the same time?

Rey is just instantly leveled up. She doesn't have to earn xp. It's like she just entered in cheat codes and jumped ahead. I hate that aspect about her character. It doesn't outweigh what I love about her or what Daisy Ridley brings to the role, but it's definitely a problem for me.

Nah, Anakin was born with a high midichlorian count, and used the Force while podracing. He didn't even know what he was doing. Rey is just as much of a natural.

 

[Toxi]

Those complaints about the cruciform light saber being impractical are really funny in hindsight after seeing poor Finn stabbed by one of the quillons.