[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #2) - One Thumb Up

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John Harker said:
It's not that adults are harder to train in the force, it's that adults fall more easy to temptation. So the key is preventing them from turning to the dark side and that's easier to instill as a child, vs an adult when you already have preconceived notions of the world and can USE the power for a specific end. Whereas the Jedi prefer to teach children a specific (I.e knowledge and defense) application of the power.

No reason an adult can't pick it up and kick ass with it- look at Luke. Two hours training and blocking blaster fire on the Falcon like he was born to. Zero telekinesis training, and he's whipping light sabers out of the snow to save himself.

Considering what Maz told Rey about the force, and Ren invading her mind and her being able to read his back... That's as much if not more "knowledge" of the Force than Luke got in A New Hope anyway. Also Anakin was using force reflexes as a pod racer before he ever met Qui Gon. Pretty par for the course for a Skywalker.
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That's what I was getting at, yes. But adults being harder would have to do with, like Luke's doubts in the power of the force while training with Yoda, something a child wouldn't have, thus easier for a child but more difficult for an adult to unlearn what they've learned.
 
Durden77 said:
Saw it twice today haha. Loved it both times, even more the 2nd time. There were two things I noticed that I disliked though.

1. "I happened to crash land on the one spot on this entire planet that is within walking distance of the one village the character i need to meet is at." Finn's Tie Fighter crash on Jakku. Comon. That trope is so lame.

2. The Captain Phasam "lowering the shields" scene. Not only was it ridiculous to think that one of, if not the, highest ranking Stormtrooper could be captured so easily, and brought into a room which I would imagine should be rather important considering it operates the base's shields without tripping any sort of alarm, but she was convinced so easily as well and the shields were so weirdly easy to deactivate. The whole scene just felt really lazy and dumb, and wasted what character she could have had. I mean fuck at least make her put up a fight and only give in once Chewy takes her down a notch or something.

But still though, what a time to be alive. A new, exciting episode to Star Wars is really here.
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I agree, Phasma was severely underutilized.
 
Durden77 said:
1. "I happened to crash land on the one spot on this entire planet that is within walking distance of the one village the character i need to meet is at." Finn's Tie Fighter crash on Jakku. Comon. That trope is so lame.
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Poe was piloting and knew where he left BB8. He intentionally tried to steer there.

There's even a scene where Kylo Ren realizes they went down to retrieve BB8 because they crashlanded in that spot.

Completely agreed on your point about Phasma. What a waste; the only solace we have is that she'll appear in the next movie and hopefully not be a complete chump.
 
OricWindstar said:
Eh, no different than Luke crashing right next to Yoda.
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Doesn't make it less stupid just because it was done in Empire. But at least there you could make an argument that "Yoda sensed someone coming/Obi Wan told him so he prepared" or something.

FlashbladeGAF said:
I'll give you 2

But 1 is the force dude.

Finn is the driving force for EVERYTHING.

The force guided him. Strike him down he will comeback more powerful then you could ever imagine.
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Finn does Finn pretty damn hard tho.
 
Toxi said:
No, the assumption that can be made is that she's strong in the Force, like plenty of Star Wars characters who aren't Skywalkers.

Could she be a Skywalker? Sure, but from the information we have, that's hardly a certainty in the same way "she's strong in the Force" is.
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The only other character I know that is strong in the force in this new canon without any training is Ezra from Rebels. But even he can't use the force and lighsaber properly without training.
He can't even challenge an Inquisitor and got scared when facing Darth Vader.

And being strong in the force isn't the only reason that gives away that she's a Skywalker ---- she's a great pilot too.
 
Hawkian said:
actually I must agree that all discussions of rey's use of the force pale in comparison to the canonical destruction of the famous Trade Federation droid control ship by force-sensitive ABSOLUTELY NO TRAINING ABOUT THE FORCE YET Anakin Skywalker:

If you watch the sequence everyone else is essentially useless (there are no characters you'd care about anyway), it's pretty much Anakin single-handedly completing the full climactic "blow up the thing" mission.

9 years old folks.
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That's basically me winning in Starfox 64

GO INSIDE AND SHOOT THE SHINY THING

also the Skyhook from Shadows of the Empire
 
Spiritreaver said:
I wonder if Anakin ever speaks to Ben as a ghost. Kid is literally praying to his mask. He could probably use a pep talk.

Come on Hayden, help him out.
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Lol, imagine the outcry if they actually use Hayden as a ghost in the next one. But to be honest I'm interested to see whether a better director and script could make it work. Maybe he won't be so bad with better material to work with?
 
I don't think I've seen it mentioned (in either spoiler thread), but I loved that the First Order was basically entirely composed of kids. None of them could've been old enough to have been a part of the Empire.
 
Gravidee said:
Lol, imagine the outcry if they actually use Hayden as a ghost in the next one. But to be honest I'm interested to see whether a better director and script could make it work. Maybe he won't be so bad with better material to work with?
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After all the talk about how the Prequels suck, I want to see someone actually make something better out of them. They're still canon damn it.

The Hayden ghost in RotJ would be more forgivable if there was a practical reason for it (Sebastian Shaw ain't coming back after all)
 
Brakke said:
Yo for sure Anakin killing a space station is a joke.

Luke spends an unspecified amount of time at the Rebel base and he has R2D2 as his copilot. I don't think hanging around Han reasonably would run off on Luke but I'm saying it's a very different dramatic situation.

Nobody's surprised to see Luke go against the Death Star because he's the damn hero and of course he's going to show up at the Final Battle. Everybody's surprised to see Rey stunting because they don't know anything at all about her. I don't think anyone would have minded if Rey just sloppily got the Falcon into the air. She's unknown and that woulda made dramatic sense: the reluctant plucky hero flies unsurely, escapes by the skin of her teeth.

Rey's ultra-competency is kind of dissonant with our expectations that she's a dirt-farmer nobody. So like yeah, we should incorporate the new evidence into our expectation for her. I'm just saying people's reluctance to do that doesn't have to come from her being a lady. A New Hope eases Luke into competency, this one dunks Rey into it.
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Rey's not a dirt farmer nobody, she's a weathered survivor who has lasted this long in on a brutally hostile planet because of her competence.
 
My plot complaints:

- Why is there a map to Luke's location? An additional line or two explaining this map's existence would not have gone amiss.

- Why does R2 wake up when he does? Luke hasn't moved any closer. (I really thought the lightsaber would trigger him.) Again, an additional line of dialogue explaining this better would have been appreciated.

- Could have used two or three fewer winky references to the original films. I was almost, but not quite, at the "Yeah yeah, we get it" point with the last few.

My praise (that I can think of right now; I loved most of it):

- The way they reintroduced things from the previous films was brilliant. The Falcon being their back-up "garbage" ship, Han and Chewie being the ones busting in, Threepio popping into the frame suddenly... all done so wonderfully.

- The new five main characters are fantastic. So relatable, so well acted, and I can't wait to see them on further adventures together. I'm just hoping they aren't apart for too long in Episode VIII.

- Harrison embodied the Han Solo role perfectly, in a way he didn't manage with Indiana Jones when he returned to that role. Could just be direction or the fact that he knew it wasn't a great script; not really sure.

- Even where CGI is used—which is in a lot of places—it's so much better looking than anything in the prequel trilogy. Could be the advancement of technology since, could be that there were enough practical effects to balance it out, probably is a combination of both.

I just bought tickets to see it a second time, this time in laser 4K 3D IMAX.
 
Brakke said:
Nobody's surprised to see Luke go against the Death Star because he's the damn hero and of course he's going to show up at the Final Battle. Everybody's surprised to see Rey stunting because they don't know anything at all about her. I don't think anyone would have minded if Rey just sloppily got the Falcon into the air. She's unknown and that woulda made dramatic sense: the reluctant plucky hero flies unsurely, escapes by the skin of her teeth.

Rey's ultra-competency is kind of dissonant with our expectations that she's a dirt-farmer nobody. So like yeah, we should incorporate the new evidence into our expectation for her. I'm just saying people's reluctance to do that doesn't have to come from her being a lady. A New Hope eases Luke into competency, this one dunks Rey into it.
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What ultra-competency? Everything she does in this film, she flails around with at first. She smashes the Falcon into a bunch of stuff at first. She's clearly a pilot and has been around ships all her life. This wasn't just out of the blue, but she also didn't just know how to do everything immediately without some stumbling.
 
Toxi said:
Poe was piloting and knew where he left BB8. He intentionally tried to steer there.

There's even a scene where Kylo Ren realizes they went down to retrieve BB8 because they crashlanded in that spot.

Completely agreed on your point about Phasma. What a waste; the only solace we have is that she'll appear in the next movie and hopefully not be a complete chump.
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I thought they did mention something along those lines that I almost caught the 2nd time. Guess it didn't fully register. That's nice though knowing they had a reason to crash in that spot.

I wonder though, if Poe had the ability to track BB, and I'm guessing he woke up before Finn, wouldn't that be the first thing he went for? Unless he woke up well after Finn. He did say it was dark out.
 
If Rey is related to Luke (I think she's a Kenobi personally) then the awakening of her Force could have possibly been what awoken R2. At least that's my assumption for now.
 
I don't think you could come up with an alternative to the crash landing on Jakku that's much better. Whatever it is would be just as much a coincidence because that's what it is; a necessity contrivance. The characters need to meet and the plot needs to move forward, and soon.
 
FlashbladeGAF said:
She said it was a piece of junk, not that she didn't think she could fly it.
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Rey saying the Falcon was a piece of junk (besides echoing Luke in a New Hope), doesn't that imply that at least she may have snuck in there quite a few times and toyed with it? She seems to know whats wrong with it and where to go within the ship to fix it.
 
Inorigo said:
I don't think you could come up with an alternative to the crash landing on Jakku that's much better. Whatever it is would be just as much a coincidence because that's what it is; a necessity contrivance. The characters need to meet and the plot needs to move forward, and soon.
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Maybe Poe targeted the landing since he needed to get BB-8
 
I feel like Phasma might've really just been a red herring this whole time.

I wouldn't be surprised if she's not even in either sequel.
 
Spiritreaver said:
I wonder if Anakin ever speaks to Ben as a ghost. Kid is literally praying to his mask. He could probably use a pep talk.

Come on Hayden, help him out.
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We've never seen dark side characters speaking to force ghosts, have we? Is there something about being on that side that makes it harder to commune with spirits in the force?
 
Donthizz# said:
can somebody please explain it to me why everybody has this hard on for Phasma? is she like a important figure in the sw universe?
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Nobody does. They wanted her to be cooler but she just wasn't. She should have been the shock baton trooper on Mazs planet. Just don't kill her by letting her take a regular blaster hit to the arm instead of the bow caster to the chest.

The traitor line would have made more sense too since she would know who he was on sight.
 
AgeEighty said:
It's funny, almost every time I see someone say about a movie "The plot had too many holes," they don't say what those plot holes were. (And when they do, they almost never actually are "holes" in the plot.)
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Oh yeah finding a millennium falcon and then all of a sudden being able to fly it inverted. Or knowing how to repair everything on the ship. Or knowing how to use a light saber with no training at all and defeat a sixth lord. Must have been all that "force". I understand you really love Star Wars, but it's still a film. Not very well made and obviously rushed to production.
 
Finn landing near Rey/BB8 is more explainable than how Poe got off the planet and back to the Resistance base and back to the Maz planet faster than the Millenium Falcon.
 
I don't think the stuff about the map and R2D2 are intended to be fleshed out in the film at all. That's not particularly good writing, because it makes part of the mystery just a sequel hook, but it certainly feels designed that way. Now the next director/writer can have more freedom to "explain" these things the way he wants, especially since he will have to do the heavy lifting with Luke's character.

But my guess is that the map is the same map Luke used to get to where he is, and he left behind two pieces, one with R2D2, one with the old man, and they were meant to come together when the time was right. ~Because the force~
 
Sorcerer said:
Her saying the Falcon was a piece of junk (besides echoing Luke in a New Hope), doesn't that imply that at least she may have snuck in there quite a few times and toyed with it?
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Not if it's the ugly boss's ship.
She needs to be in good standing with him to get food.

Plus with the Millennium Falcon, the beauty of the ship is on the inside. :p
 
Sorcerer said:
Rey saying the Falcon was a piece of junk (besides echoing Luke in a New Hope), doesn't that imply that at least she may have snuck in there quite a few times and toyed with it? She seems to know whats wrong with it and where to go within the ship to fix it.
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She said it hadn't flown in years. No doubt it was sitting there that whole time, and she had seen it and at least passed by it many times during that period.
 
I liked Han's freighter. It looked like a whale was eating the Falcon

but separating Han from that ship for so long feels so wrong though
 
Inorigo said:
I feel like Phasma might've really just been a red herring this whole time.

I wouldn't be surprised if she's not even in either sequel.
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The actress is confirmed for the next movie.

She's not a red herring (what would she even be a red herring for? Random Stormtrooper with a shock baton?), she's just a cool design that barely does anything in this movie.
 
Just got back from seeing the movie. Overall it was a great film and an awesome experience. My favorite part of the film is the fact that it was James Bond (Daniel Craig) who freed Rays XD One thing I didn't like was that Phasma didn't do much besides look cool.
 
Inorigo said:
I feel like Phasma might've really just been a red herring this whole time.

I wouldn't be surprised if she's not even in either sequel.
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She seems to be important to Kathleen Kennedy. I think Phasma must return. She was so played up in the marketing. Too much going on in the movie to do anything other than introduce her I suppose.
I think she will be important to Finn's storyline.

As and aside, I notice her tall action figure towers above the tall versions of Poe, and the regular tall StormTrooper, it looks odd, is she that big in the movie?
 
boredofcanada said:
Oh yeah finding a millennium falcon and then all of a sudden being able to fly it inverted. Good exposition.
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Yeah, that's exactly what I'm talking about. That's not a "plot hole". She's already been established to know her way around ships and piloting by that point, and she does, in fact, crash the ship a bunch before figuring out the controls.

Any real ones?
 
SolarMystic said:
I agree, Phasma was severely underutilized.
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It's rather dumb, from a logical perspective, how easily she gives in. Once she deactivates the shields, she not only outlives her usefulness to her captors but essentially dooms herself to die with the rest of the planet regardless. I guess they could try torturing her, but she'd only have to hold out for, like, ten minutes before they can fire the weapon and it's mission accomplished.

Though I think I read that she's appearing in the next one, so I guess it worked out for her in the end. Assuming that her superiors don't figure out who it was that disabled the shields, anyways.
 
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