[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #2) - One Thumb Up

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Donthizz# said:
now this is a kick ass lightsaber..
e8v58gK.jpg
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It was until
DaOA10
 
GhaleonEB said:
I don't mind saying I shed a few tears when this happened. It was so perfect.

I loved how Rey seemed bit surprised as well. She's there for a moment thinking...that just happened. Well then.

Been catching up on the pre-release hype and marketing, since I tuned out of it, and rewatched all the trailers. I love how you really don't get any sense for the plot from any of them, and there's no hint at Rey as the budding Jedi, at all. Her development was kept completely hidden. I'm kind of in awe they did that, but it made that moment hit that much harder.
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I think the marketing for this movie was really excellent in that way. It's amazing that Star Wars was able to become this ubiquitous merchandising giant again ("again" in the sense it's on every shelf, in every commercial, present to the point of annoying again) and yet the plot and the surprises of it were preserved.

I was genuinely shocked when Rey ran from Maz. I knew the plot would wheel around to her picking up that saver and accepting her talent and her destiny, but I wasn't 100% sure and I loved it. It was genuine tension.
 
GhaleonEB said:
I don't mind saying I shed a few tears when this happened. It was so perfect.
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i thought it would have been better if finn hadn't already had a lightsaber fight with kylo ren right before it to be honest. maybe he just gets his ass kicked in a far more traditional way, causing the lightsaber to get knocked out of his possession somehow.
 
Inorigo said:
Totally.

I honestly think a staff blade would be super cool. Really hope they're not sour on the idea because of Darth Maul, but Ren's saber gives me hope that they are indeed still willing to do custom/unconventional light sabers in the movies.

Would be a little awkward if she really is related to Obi-Wan though, LOL
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actually, Ren's saber looking like a claymore of sorts, actually would make it seem like they want to go back to lightsabers as swords.
The new swordfights are much more similar to medieval sword-on-sword fights than the swashbuckling / fencing done in the prequels.

I'm against Rey getting a double bladed light saber.
She's a very "modest" Jedi - a double bladed weapon seems far too "flashy".

Inorigo said:
I think the marketing for this movie was really excellent in that way. It's amazing that Star Wars was able to become this ubiquitous merchandising giant again ("again" in the sense it's on every shelf, in every commercial, present to the point of annoying again) and yet the plot and the surprises of it were preserved.

I was genuinely shocked when Rey ran from Maz. I knew the plot would wheel around to her picking up that saver and accepting her talent and her destiny, but I wasn't 100% sure and I loved it. It was genuine tension.
Click to expand...

"refusal of the call" - Just like Luke saying 'Look, I can't get involved. I've got work to do. It's not that I like the Empire; I hate it, but there's nothing I can do about it right now... It's all such a long way from here.'

and dude, i'm so buying that cross-sections book. and the Rey Lego speeder. And the Disney Infinity 3.0 figurines!
 
Veelk said:
You know, I just rewatched the OT just now, and when I'll re-evaluate TFA when I see it again...but I think TFA might be the best SW movie for me.

I never actually liked ANH that much. Maybe it's because I watched it WAY past it's time where everyone copied the Hero's journey that the original standardized in cinema way, way too many times, but it's the most rough around the edges movie which, despite some really good cinematic shots, just doesn't work on any personal level for me. Obiwan wasn't that great a character, Luke is probably more of "Everyman that magically succeeds" than a distinct character than in any other film, and neither Han nor Leia are that interesting. It feels too much like the prototypical movie, where other movies have copied it's structure and just done it better in every way, so now...now I just don't find any narrative in here all that compelling. And the fact that I have pre-existing knowledge of where the characters end up, it makes it feel pointless. The shipping teases with Leia don't matter to be because I not only know that's not gonna work out, but that she's his sister. Luke essentially has no relationship with Vader beyond general antagonist because neither of them know or care about one another yet. And the climax manifests itself as one of the least impressive aspects of star wars I find, especially in the first movie, the star ship fights.

ESB is the best film where the relationships between the characters have actually grown to mean something, and we have two main storylines that are really compelling: Luke's rise to becoming a Jedi proper, meeting with Yoda, his dynamic with Vader. And Han and Leia's flirtations finally coming into fruition. I should note that I like one WAY more than the other and it's obvious which, but the Han and Leia plot isn't all that bad, it's just....so incredibly shallow. It's essentially just a conflict between Harrison Ford's sexiness vs Leia's desire for a moral man, which apparently Han isn't because he wants to get paid to pay off his debts. That's the general problem I guess I have with Han, even in ANH, they make out like he's some scoundrel or something because his wanting to pay his bills and not throw in with the rebellion on pure moral grounds makes him shady. Bah. I've seen hundreds of dashing rouge characters done better than him since then, so he really just doesn't impress me in these. Still, it helps that he visits some interesting locations between the asteroid monster and cloud city, which is probably the coolest location in the series.

RotJ has THE strongest storyline with Luke's journey finalizing. However, it is combined with the utterly weakest, with Han and Leia caught in a drama bomb that could be easily resolved if Leia just tells him that she's Luke's sister, in addition to the general Empire vs Rebellion battle, which itself is split between the Ewoks on Endor and Lando+the rest of the rebellion in space. This element isn't...bad, really, but I just don't care. I don't have any emotional investment in the rebellion as a political entity.

I also hate C3PO and don't find R2D2 funny at all, so these two buckets could be scrapped and I wouldn't give a damn. It wouldn't be unfair to say that if I just saw Luke's journey condensed into two movies with the other stuff cut out, I might actually find that the most compelling version of the story.

But TFA has all it's character arcs work well for me, and make me care about them. The main character arcs are with Rey, Finn and Ren, but also Han is the more compelling here trying to save his son and guide Rey than he ever was trying to get into Leia's pants. The only things that don't work are generally so minor that they barely qualify as subplots, namely the R2D2 map activation and the small ship sequence with the hentai tenticle monsters and the the starkiller base is a lazy replication of the death star that is basically given lipservice just to keep the stakes high and not really put that much time into. So while Luke has claim to the best writing of the series, TFA comes together as a whole more effectively than any other movie as far as I can see.

Now I wonder how long before people form a mob with pitchforks and torches outside my house.
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While I still think that ESB is still the best Star Wars movie, I agree with a lot of the things expressed in your post. It feels to me like people are judging TFA by comparing it with the whole OT and expect to include more based on that. But if you take every movie from OT in isolation, they did much less than TFA per movie.

I have watched ANH again just 2 days before TFA and TFA is better in every imaginable aspect except maybe originality. The characters have a real story and real development in it. Not only the "main hero", but also the bad guy and the rest of the characters. They have feelings, stories, you know what drives them, why they act the way they act. Not to mention the fact that TFA left so many possibilities to continue the trilogy while the continuation to ANH was pretty much straight forward.

People are complaining about Carrie Fisher forgetting how to act, but she was never that great in OT either. But it fitted better there, because there was really no weight put on the acting to create the great moments. While in TFA you really have that.

And I think that the Han Solo vs. Kylo Ren moment beats any of the Luke vs. Darth Vader moments despite not having the revelation part. Yes, Hamill was really great in ESB face-off, but here, in TFA, the tension, the way Ford and Driver played the moment and the feelings and the way the whole scene was edited made it so much better.
 
KingSnake said:
While I still think that ESB is still the best Star Wars movie, I agree with a lot of the things expressed in your post. It feels to me like people are judging TFA by comparing it with the whole OT and expect to include more based on that. But if you take every movie from OT in isolation, they did much less than TFA per movie.
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This, but also TFA retreads a -lot- of ANH. Many people felt they'd have enjoyed it more if the narrative framework was a lot more of its own thing. A little bit of column A, a little bit of column B, really.
 
Overall, I enjoyed the movie but I'm disappointed at how much this movie retreads or attempts to one-up plot points/scenes from ANH.

Another thing that really bothered me (particularly because it happens at the beginning of the movie):
Why did Finn suddenly grow a conscience for his fellow downed Stormtrooper.. and then instantly LOSE said conscience upon finding Oscar Issac, proceeding to mow down scores of his former fellow men?


As for positives: Rei's actress is gorgeous and I really enjoyed her acting. Looking forward to learning more of the character as well (like what her exact relation to Luke is, even though it feels pretty obvious that she's his daughter).


Oh and Kylo Ren was incredibly lame. He is LITERALLY Anakin 2.0. Right down to the emo hair.
 
Toki767 said:
Just saw this.

So we all pretty much think that Rey is Luke's daughter, right?
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Seeing as we're clearly led to believe her to be, i think she isn't.

A twist predictable 1 1/2 years before its reveal isn't really that much of a twist.
Revolutionary said:
Overall, I enjoyed the movie but I'm disappointed at how much this movie retreads or attempts to one-up plot points/scenes from ANH.

Another thing that really bothered me (particularly because it happens at the beginning of the movie):
Why did Finn suddenly grow a conscience for his fellow downed Stormtrooper.. and then instantly LOSE said conscience upon finding Oscar Issac, proceeding to mow down scores of his former fellow men?

As for positives: Rei's actress is gorgeous and I really enjoyed her acting. Looking forward to learning more of the character as well (like what her exact relation to Luke is, even though it feels pretty obvious that she's his daughter)

Oh and Kylo Ren was incredibly lame. He is LITERALLY Anakin 2.0. Right down to the emo hair.
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And Finn isn't against "killing". He just doesn't want to kill for the bad guys. He doesn't mind killing the bad guys themselves.


Kylo Ren is not literally Anakin. They're quite the inverse, actually.
"I'm weak, help me be stronger" vs. "I'm stronger than all of you, you're holding me back"
"I wanna be bad, i don't know if i can kill my family" vs "I wanna be good, but i need to save my family!"

Yes, they both are conflicted dark Jedi with medium long hair.
 
Falk said:
This, but also TFA retreads a -lot- of ANH. Many people felt they'd have enjoyed it more if the narrative framework was a lot more of its own thing. A little bit of column A, a little bit of column B, really.
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I can understand that. But I can also understand why they did it, after the reactions to the prequels (which had some interesting ideas in them, but everything was pretty much trashed equally). Plus while they copied the structure of ANH they managed to make it fresh in my opinion. Yes, you can simplify it back to ANH, but that means to ignore every new bit that was in. Even the "here's another Death Star, find a weekness" was interesting in the end.

While prequels practically try to give depth to Anakin/Darth Vader story, you wouldn't need any prequel to TFA, because the characters where beautifully drawn.
 
plasmawave said:
Don't people find it weird that SW is now about bunch of Skywalkers and their descendants fucking up galaxies?
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Star Wars has been about Skywalkers and Solos both saving and destroying the gaksxy from the start.

I'm really hoping Rey is a Kenobi. It'd be fresh because of the above^ and there's a certain harmony to Luke belong her as Ben helped him.
 
Sesuadra said:
wait 1 1/2 years to hear luke say "no. I am not your father" >>
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"and then Vader chopped off my hand and said 'no, i am your father!' "
- "oh my god, really?"
"yeah. but let's continue your training. Your parents - John and Jane Doe - will be back with the KFC we made them get"
 
Inorigo said:
Star Wars has been about Skywalkers and Solos both saving and destroying the gaksxy from the start.

I'm really hoping Rey is a Kenobi. It'd be fresh because of the above^ and there's a certain harmony to Luke belong her as Ben helped him.
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I'm on the same side. Either a Kenobi or just not related to the Skywalkers.
 
I am hoping she is a Kenobi as well, though I don't know how it would work out as far as timing. Part of me would honestly rather her just be a nobody over being his niece or something.
 
Fliesen said:
Seeing as we're clearly led to believe her to be, i think she isn't.

A twist predictable 1 1/2 years before its reveal isn't really that much of a twist.
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What are the other options? Red herring, she has no major "lineage"? That doesn't jive well with the backstory of her being left on Jakku, and from the sound of it, being held back by Max von Sydow's character.

Snoke's daughter maybe? Han and Leia's? (highly unlikely, but still, the aptitude with tinkering?)

I'm still leaning towards Luke's daughter, it doesn't have to be a major twist, just a open revelation eventually.
 
KingSnake said:
I can understand that. But I can also understand why they did it, after the reactions to the prequels (which had some interesting ideas in them, but everything was pretty much trashed equally). Plus while they copied the structure of ANH they managed to make it fresh in my opinion. Yes, you can simplify it back to ANH, but that means to ignore every new bit that was in. Even the "here's another Death Star, find a weekness" was interesting in the end.

While prequels practically try to give depth to Anakin/Darth Vader story, you wouldn't need any prequel to TFA, because the characters where beautifully drawn.
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also, one-upping the super-weapon is INCREDIBLY 'Star Wars'

weren't there superweapons galore in the EU? Even the 2nd death star was 2.37 times as big as the first and had that extra beam in the middle, as well as a protective shield.

Let alone those other weird death stars and sunkillers and whatnot in the EU.

It's like complaining that a new season of Power Rangers has a new MegaZord.
 
Fliesen said:
also, one-upping the super-weapon is INCREDIBLY 'Star Wars'

weren't there superweapons galore in the EU? Even the 2nd death star was 2.37 times as big as the first and had that extra beam in the middle, as well as a protective shield.

Let alone those other weird death stars and sunkillers and whatnot in the EU.

It's like complaining that a new season of Power Rangers has a new MegaZord.
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yes. über-weapons is part of star wars.
 
plasmawave said:
Don't people find it weird that SW is now about bunch of Skywalkers and their descendants fucking up galaxies?
Click to expand...

Especially after the good that Luke accomplished
1. destroying the Empire and returning the Republic to power.
2. teaching a new group of Jedi


both of these get undone immediately in TFA with almost no build up or screen time.
 
CrowdChant said:
I thought Adam Driver played the character exceptionally well, and is what Anakin should have been the prequels.
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Well, I can't argue with that because Hayden did a terrible job. lol
I was just taken aback at the total lack of originality in regards to his character. With the mask, he's Vader from the OT (voice synthesized for emphasis). Without, he's Anakin from the PT (emo synthesized for emphasis). Well acted or not, the character came off as little more than an attempt to one-up the original.

Fliesen said:
And Finn isn't against "killing". He just doesn't want to kill for the bad guys. He doesn't mind killing the bad guys themselves.
Click to expand...
Well that much is obvious the moment he starts mowing down his former comrades. That's a hell of a thin line to walk though. He grows a conscience because of a death, but has no problem killing. lol

Kylo Ren is not literally Anakin. They're quite the inverse, actually.
"I'm weak, help me be stronger" vs. "I'm stronger than all of you, you're holding me back"
"I wanna be bad, i don't know if i can kill my family" vs "I wanna be good, but i need to save my family!"

Yes, they both are conflicted dark Jedi with medium long hair.
Click to expand...
I'll admit I haven't seen the PT in a long time so maybe I'm misremembering character specifics, but Kylo instantly brought back my feelings towards Anakin's character 'development'.
 
half a moon said:
Abrams said it's bb8 asking r2 about the map that wakes him http://www.ew.com/article/2015/12/2...-question-about-r2-d2-star-wars-force-awakens
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well, they better put an SSD into R2 then, dude take's forever to wake from hibernate.

Revolutionary said:
Well, I can't argue with that because Hayden did a terrible job. lol
I was just taken aback at the total lack of originality in regards to his character. With the mask, he's Vader from the OT (voice synthesized for emphasis). Without, he's Anakin from the PT (emo synthesized for emphasis). Well acted or not, the character came off as little more than an attempt to one-up the original.
Click to expand...

which is exactly what Kylo Ren is trying to be - in the story.

Razgriz-Specter said:
Especially after the good that Luke accomplished
1. destroying the Empire and returning the Republic to power.
2. teaching a new group of Jedi


both of these get undone immediately in TFA with almost no build up or screen time.
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well, we'll have to blame the 30 year gap for that, though.
If TFA had been set 3 years after RotJ, i don't think they'd have gone as far with saying "yeah, we dun goof'd again"
 
Razgriz-Specter said:
Especially after the good that Luke accomplished
1. destroying the Empire and returning the Republic to power.
2. teaching a new group of Jedi


both of these get undone immediately in TFA with almost no build up or screen time.
Click to expand...

Well it's not called Star Wars for nothing. Starting the movie while everything's fine is what TPM tried.
 
Fliesen said:
also, one-upping the super-weapon is INCREDIBLY 'Star Wars'

weren't there superweapons galore in the EU? Even the 2nd death star was 2.37 times as big as the first and had that extra beam in the middle, as well as a protective shield.

Let alone those other weird death stars and sunkillers and whatnot in the EU.

It's like complaining that a new season of Power Rangers has a new MegaZord.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's a good point.
 
There's something to Rey's lineage. We'll probably learn what it is in VIII, so she came to terms with it then, but I wouldn't be surprised if they decided to keep it secret until the end, either.

But yeah, this movie makes it clear she isn't a nobody. Which doesn't mean she has to be a name we're familiar with, but I think it confirms her lineage is going to be significant in the fiction.
 
Fliesen said:
weren't there superweapons galore in the EU?
Click to expand...

Dear Lord, this was really one of the worst parts of the EU. I mean yeah, Star Wars really was about going against impossible odds, but especially Kevin J. Anderson managed to turn each iteration into eye-rolling cliche.

Oh look! Another weapon that can kill billions in an eyeblink BUT WAIT IT'S MANAGED BY ANOTHER BUMBLING IDIOT OF A COMIC RELIEF VILLAIN BECAUSE IT'S STILL FUNNY THE 15th TIME (LOL!)
 
Inorigo said:
There's something to Rey's lineage. We'll probably learn what it is in VIII, so she came to terms with it then, but I wouldn't be surprised if they decided to keep it secret until the end, either.
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I hope they'll reveal her lineage in Episode VIII opening crawl.
Rey is missing!! After training under her father Luke,
Rey's insistence on discovering a different way of the
force made her journeyed to Dagobah where she
was last seen...

Meanwhile...<something something>
Click to expand...
 
Inorigo said:
There's something to Rey's lineage. We'll probably learn what it is in VIII, so she came to terms with it then, but I wouldn't be surprised if they decided to keep it secret until the end, either.

But yeah, this movie makes it clear she isn't a nobody. Which doesn't mean she has to be a name we're familiar with, but I think it confirms her lineage is going to be significant in the fiction.
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I'd kill for her to be an Antilles, really.

plot twist: Not related to Wedge, related to Raymus! noOOooOOooOOooo.gif

Razgriz-Specter said:
Im talking in the movie we don't get to see any of that success,
Republic Capital is destroyed in its only 5-10 second scene.
Luke's Jedi group is shown already dead in a 5 second scene.
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yeah, we can't expect to have one film show EVERYTHING to us. I'm expecting VIII to deal with this issue in flashbacks and the EU novels to give background info about the New Republic and "Professor Skywalker's School for gifted Youngsters".
Doesn't 'Aftermath' already shed quite some light on what went wrong after RotJ?
 
Razgriz-Specter said:
Especially after the good that Luke accomplished
1. destroying the Empire and returning the Republic to power.
2. teaching a new group of Jedi


both of these get undone immediately in TFA with almost no build up or screen time.
Click to expand...

You'd rather sit through an expose that details the political jousts that led to the rise of the First Order, trade boycotts and all?
 
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