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[Ishida]

I don't know that I would even go as far as to say that he was a hack, but the sort of storytelling he's into does not have that kind of nuance to it. He was very up front about Star Wars being modern fairy tales. These were never meant to be complex stories that defy type. They are built from the ground up from tropes.

I just don't think it's something he'd do on purpose is all I meant. It wasn't meant nearly as sneeringly as you imagined it to be, though in retrospect I can totally see how it could be taken that way.

Yeah, I understand.

I don't think Lucas is some sort of amazing writer, or even great, or even good. But he makes fun stuff. I've always seen Star Wars as just plain silly fun stuff. Space monks with laser swords and magic against evil. Even with the politics stuff in the prequels, it was always down to good monks VS evil empire/monks.

 

[Brakke]

Fixed and sorry bout that.

I mean. It doesn't work for tons and tons of people.

 

[Nekofrog]

i'm really surprised at the number of people who automatically assume that jedi and sith are these supermen who can use some kind of plot immunity to block all blaster shots at all times and generally destroy everything in their path because lightsaburz n powurz

it's already been said that kylo ren was not in a good place during that fight. he was emotionally compromised after a 1-2 combo of nearly being put in his place by an unknown force user and killing his own father. dude was questioning everything including his own place in the new order after that, then gets sniped by a damn bowcaster that has been shown the entire movie to be way stronger than just a blaster.

he was shown punching a giant bleeding wound in his side several times, probably both to intimidate rey/finn and to keep his own stupid ass conscious by forcing rushes of pain through his system. dude was already on the ropes before he even fought finn/rey. if finn/rey had even had any kind of actual jedi training he would've been absolute toast.

but you know what? that's the whole point. kylo ren is still a "trainee" for all intents and purposes. it's as if people weren't paying attention to the dialogue and the action in front of them when they try to criticize this.

 

[FloatOn]

I don't see redemption in store for Kylo Ren.

yeah I don't either. at least for this trilogy.

I see Kylo Ren as a dark Anakin. By the end of this trilogy he'll go full Vadar and maybe even become mechanical.

I can see episode 9 ending on something of a cliffhanger:

The fully trained Rey nearly kills Kylo Ren and he is only saved by getting turned into a mechanical monster a la Vader.

History is cyclical

 

[timewyrm]

That really stood out to me, not sure why they did it like that....

Obviously, Han don't mean shit to Leia no more, besides from being a disturbance in the Force; hell she had more emotion for Alderaan being blown to bits.

 

[Raven117]

. Perhaps here she also senses Rey is family which is why she hugs with such love. I know she just lost Han but I sensed more to that hug.

I took it as this as well actually.

but you know what? that's the whole point. kylo ren is still a "trainee" for all intents and purposes. it's as if people weren't paying attention to the dialogue and the action in front of them when they try to criticize this.

Because really we don't get to see a villain trainee in most movies...Most movies introduce villians as a constant variable...one in which the protagonists adapt and change. Sometimes, we see them "fall" but normally, they are already powerful when they do fall.

Here, we see the further development of a "dark side" villain. I didn't have any problem with the character of Ryo Ken (though it was a little "angsty")...Not a huge fan of the actor really, but I liked the set up.
"

 

[Pro]

Faraci's demands for VIII



It's a good read and brings up some fair points.

And how the hell did Poe and Fin escape a Star Destroyer in a Tie Fighter without disabling the Tractor Beam first?

How did the X-Wing squadron jump to light speed after blowing up the Super Canon planet? Looked like it created a star afterwards which should have enough gravity to prevent the jump.

 

[Lifejumper]

Watch rian johnson go off the rails. People
Will complain they want the old again. Im looking forward to it. The stage is set for Rian to truly change the game, I hope he does.

 

[2 Slice Toaster]

Only a master of evil, Darth

Is that "official" him using that as a first name? I always took that as Obi-Wan mocking Vader by calling out his title after he claims to now be the master, since Darth implies a level of subservience?

 

[TangoAlphaLima]

No he didn't. All he could do is deflect a couple of blaster shots and put a missile in a hole by feeling the force and not relying on his slow visual senses or the computer.

Given that Rey has had literally zero training, I think it's safe to say that whatever little time Luke had with Obi-Wan was more training than what Rey had.

 

[Ishida]

I like it too, but it's one of those things where I think the folks running the show now should back away from. Having it as a mystery is nice, fun, interesting.

Giving a definitive answer makes it Midicholrians 2.0.

I don't mind Midichlorians, really. They are pretty much like the Power Levels of DBZ, just to show that trying to 'measure' The Force is not very relevant to how things will play out.

But yeah. Some mystery is nice, too. I wouldn't be angry if Anakin's origin is never explained.

 

[MMarston]

Is that "official" him using that as a first name? I always took that as Obi-Wan mocking Vader by calling out his title after he claims to now be the master, since Darth implies a level of subservience?

Nobody knew that Darth was a title when the film came out

 

[Armaros]

Given that Rey has had literally zero training, I think it's safe to say that whatever little time Luke had with Obi-Wan was more training than what Rey had.

Rey had a lifetime of living and surviving alone off of scavenging and dealing with low life on the planet.

Luke was living with his uncle.

 

[More_Badass]

Given that Rey has had literally zero training, I think it's safe to say that whatever little time Luke had with Obi-Wan was more training than what Rey had.

We don't know that. She could have some training from Luke as a kid

Plus, she's already a skilled fighter

 

[Perfect Cha0s]

You can tell some people just wanted Vader again.

Which is strange considering how frequently complaints about the movie's similarities to ANH and reliance on callbacks are brought up.

 

[rekameohs]

Is that "official" him using that as a first name? I always took that as Obi-Wan mocking Vader by calling out his title after he claims to now be the master, since Darth implies a level of subservience?

At that point, the bad guy's name was literally "Darth Vader", so first name "Darth". The family ties and Darth title and all that weren't thought of until Empire.

 

[JeremyEtcetera]

yeah I don't either. at least for this trilogy.

I see Kylo Ren as a dark Anakin. By the end of this trilogy he'll go full Vadar and maybe even become mechanical.

I can see episode 9 ending on something of a cliffhanger:

The fully trained Rey nearly kills Kylo Ren and he is only saved by getting turned into a mechanical monster a la Vader.

History is cyclical

The one thing the Star Wars movies have not done yet, is show a sith turning back into a jedi(without dying like Vader did) and trying to live with that dark past behind him. This unexplored territory will hopefully be explored with Kylo Ren. That's why I think he'll have a redemption arc.

 

[SephCast]

They're not going to bring in midichlorians and clones into this. They're almost totally distancing themselves from the prequels.

Disney is very cognizant at how Rey fits within modern society. Making her a force child would cause everyone to say "oh girls can only be the hero if they're magic beings. Normal girls can't be heroes."

She'll be Luke's Daughter or Ren's Sister. Kylo will be jealous that he wasn't the chosen grandchild. Rey is - essentially the reincarnate of Anakin.

yada yada yada - the light side wins.

 

[Spehornoob]

If Kylo Ren is "redeemed", I don't think his redemption is going to take the same form as Vader's.

Honestly, Ren seems like a bit of a try hard (which is what makes him an interesting character). He has some flashy force techniques like the mind probing and the bolt stopping, but I don't think we've seen a ton of raw power from him the way we see from other major Jedi characters.

If Ren is "redeemed", I think his redemption will involve him accepting that he'll never be what Vader was, and walking away from the pursuit of power and conflict altogether, rather than becoming one of the heroes.

If he's not redeemed, he's gonna end up fucking with the wrong guy and getting force #rekt.

 

[Blader]

And how the hell did Poe and Fin escape a Star Destroyer in a Tie Fighter without disabling the Tractor Beam first?

How did the X-Wing squadron jump to light speed after blowing up the Super Canon planet? Looked like it created a star afterwards which should have enough gravity to prevent the jump.

Best to ignore everything you know about physics re: Starkiller.

 

[Brakke]

Nobody knew that Darth was a title when the film came out

And nothing in the text of this movie indicates that Ren is a title. In the movie they could be Knights of Ren named after him as easily as he's Ren named after them. He's their "master" after all, no?

 

[gregor7777]

Leia was stiff as cardboard. If she wasn't interested in acting a bit, she should have stayed home.

 

[2 Slice Toaster]

Nobody knew that Darth was a title when the film came out

Lucas didn't?

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

well, this certainly demotivates me from doing any interactions with him

Yep. Dude's been on a mission.

Haha, and when I called him out on going into the movie wanting to hate it he acted like he had no idea what I was talking about.

[edit]

^ lol

You guys really doing this?

 

[richiek]

I don't mind Midichlorians, really. They are pretty much like the Power Levels of DBZ, just to show that trying to 'measure' The Force is not very relevant to how things will play out.

But yeah. Some mystery is nice, too. I wouldn't be angry if Anakin's origin is never explained.

Agreed. Midichlorians as a measure of Force power is fine. If they would have just left out the awkward conversation between Anakin and Qui-Gon in TPM and left the midichlorian explanation to EU materials, that would have been perfect.

 

[Interfectum]

If Kylo Ren is "redeemed", I don't think his redemption is going to take the same form as Vader's.

Honestly, Ren seems like a bit of a try hard (which is what makes him an interesting character). He has some flashy force techniques like the mind probing and the bolt stopping, but I don't think we've seen a ton of raw power from him the way we see from other major Jedi characters.

If Ren is "redeemed", I think his redemption will involve him accepting that he'll never be what Vader was, and walking away from the pursuit of power and conflict altogether, rather than becoming one of the heroes.

I don't see Kylo being redeemed. I think he's gonna go full evil and outlast this trilogy.

 

[Lorcain]

Anyone realize that Chewbacca intentionally did not kill Kylo? He headshotted every stormtrooper, but he went for a shot that would wound and not kill Kylo.

That was a damn good shot by Chewie considering he just saw his beloved friend gutted, and he was firing from the standing position like 500m+ away (probably more). He basically did an angry standing sniper shot. In most movies that would have just been an emotional miss fired off in anger. Chewie actually nailed him in the gut.

Based on what they foreshadowed a gazillion times in the movie, that bowcaster body shot would've exploded most mortals. I think if Chewie had been within melee range he would've attempted to rip his head off.

 

[Sephzilla]

Is that "official" him using that as a first name? I always took that as Obi-Wan mocking Vader by calling out his title after he claims to now be the master, since Darth implies a level of subservience?

When the original movie was written Darth Vader was the character's name, he wasn't Luke's father, and Darth wasn't some Sith title.

 

[Experien]

Temmin is in the movie...the bearded pilot! He is now named Snap.

 

[Azerare]

They're not going to bring in midichlorians and clones into this. They're almost totally distancing themselves from the prequels.

Disney is very cognizant at how Rey fits within modern society. Making her a force child would cause everyone to say "oh girls can only be the hero if they're magic beings. Normal girls can't be heroes."

She'll be Luke's Daughter or Ren's Sister. Kylo will be jealous that he wasn't the chosen grandchild. Rey is - essentially the reincarnate of Anakin.

yada yada yada - the light side wins.

They did mention clones when talking about the first order debating between using trained newborns vs clones.

 

[Dice]

it's already been said that kylo ren was not in a good place during that fight. he was emotionally compromised after a 1-2 combo of nearly being put in his place by an unknown force user and killing his own father. dude was questioning everything including his own place in the new order after that, then gets sniped by a damn bowcaster that has been shown the entire movie to be way stronger than just a blaster.

Hux had also been taking jabs at his every fuckup and Kylo went in there to get them and protect the oscillator and failed at that, too.

 

[FloatOn]

Given that Rey has had literally zero training, I think it's safe to say that whatever little time Luke had with Obi-Wan was more training than what Rey had.

she had an awakening with that vision when she touched the light saber

she started experimenting with the force when she had the mind battle with Kylo Ren

she struggled but eventually mind tricked that storm trooper

she learned how to fight for herself on Jakku with the staff

Kylo Ren said something like "she grows stronger with every passing moment" so it's clear once you start experimenting with the force progress is made fairly quickly

 

[Ishida]

Agreed. Midichlorians as a measure of Force power is fine. If they would have just left out the awkward conversation between Anakin and Qui-Gon in TPM and left the midichlorian explanation to EU materials, that would have been perfect.

I agree. It still baffles me how a lot of people believe Midichlorians was Lucas "trying to explain The Force" with science. But heh.

 

[Experien]

she had an awakening with that vision when she touched the light saber

she started experimenting with the force when she had the mind battle with Kylo Ren

she struggled but eventually mind tricked that storm trooper

she learned how to fight for herself on Jakku with the staff

Kylo Ren said something like "she grows stronger with every passing moment" so it's clear once you start experimenting with the force progress is made fairly quickly

force =\= good with lightsaber
staff =\= good with a sword, two very different fight styles

 

[Boke1879]

she had an awakening with that vision when she touched the light saber

she started experimenting with the force when she had the mind battle with Kylo Ren

she struggled but eventually mind tricked that storm trooper

she learned how to fight for herself on Jakku with the staff

Kylo Ren said something like "she grows stronger with every passing moment" so it's clear once you start experimenting with the force progress is made fairly quickly

Yup. Kylo even tells Snoke she's untrained but stronger in the force than she knows.

She still really can't control the Force. She clearly accepts it faster and has a great affinity for it. She has a great talent but now she has to harness it. Luke will teach her that.

 

[PrivateWHudson]

Given that Rey has had literally zero training, I think it's safe to say that whatever little time Luke had with Obi-Wan was more training than what Rey had.

Okay, but Rey had more life experience than Luke. He was sheltered and babied by his Aunt and Uncle. Rey had spent a lot of time fending for herself and picked up on things much quicker than Luke. Street smarts if you will. Getting frozen and then mind probed by Ren was probably worth months of Luke listening to what Jedi could do vs. feeling what Jedi could do. You could see her studying and learning from Ren instead of whining like Luke did most of the time.

 

[Pro]

Temmin is in the movie...the bearded pilot! He is now named Snap.

You mean Porkins 2.0?

 

[Omegasquash]

I don't mind Midichlorians, really. They are pretty much like the Power Levels of DBZ, just to show that trying to 'measure' The Force is not very relevant to how things will play out.

But yeah. Some mystery is nice, too. I wouldn't be angry if Anakin's origin is never explained.

I hope they don't explain it, honestly. I'd really, really like to let Anakin stay dead. Deal with his legacy, sure. I mean he was basically a one man Mongol army, and he conquered shit like a Khan would so there's GOING to be a memory that no one will ever forget, but I don't want these movies to focus on him.

That's totally just my opinion, however. Not saying I'm right or wrong in any way.

 

[Future PhaZe]

If Luke had wanted to kill Ben, he'd have been able to do so.

All signs point to Snoke being of such a threat that Luke thought he had no choice but to seek out some kind of information at the temple.

Again...signs pointing to Plageuis. That destroying his body might not be enough--even though that itself might be tough to do.

 

[shortsFortallPeople]

They did mention clones when talking about the first order debating between using trained newborns vs clones.

it was the loosest of connections. mentioning clones isn't even so much a PT reference as the Clone Wars were mentioned in ANH.

Even if you give it to the PTs and say that the Clones reference is a nod to them, there's nothing else. I can't think of a single thing outside of that maybe soso reference.

They clearly did their best to not have anything PT related in there.

 

[Tom Nook Sawyer]

Which is strange considering how frequently complaints about the movie's similarities to ANH and reliance on callbacks are brought up.

Only if you assume it's literally the same people making both complaints

 

[Armaros]

Okay, but Rey had more life experience than Luke. He was sheltered and babied by his Aunt and Uncle. Rey had spent a lot of time fending for herself and picked up on things much quicker than Luke. Street smarts if you will. Getting frozen and then mind probed by Ren was probably worth months of Luke listening to what Jedi could do vs. feeling what Jedi could do.

It's almost as if the entire intro and the whole scene about how Rey didn't need Finn to help her against the thugs was trying to showcase.

 

[Sephzilla]

force =\= good with lightsaber
staff =\= good with a sword, two very different fight styles

Are you sure?

Finn didn't stand a chance against Ren and a (badass) Stormtrooper held his own against Finn. Meanwhile Rey managed to fight off and best an injured Kylo Ren, especially after tapping into The Force.

 

[Fj0823]

They're not going to bring in midichlorians and clones into this. They're almost totally distancing themselves from the prequels.

They've already mentioned sith and clone armies in VII. And proudly anounced Ewan McGregor had a cameo.

I understand this movie as a celebration of the originals, but at no point it was a "Fuck the prequels" kind of movie, like Days of Future Past was a "Fuck X3"

In fact, we know early scripts had Anakin and Vader talking to Kylo in an angel/devil in my shoulder kind of dream.

Johnson could easily revisit some of these ideas.

 

[Ishida]

I hope they don't explain it, honestly. I'd really, really like to let Anakin stay dead. Deal with his legacy, sure. I mean he was basically a one man Mongol army, and he conquered shit like a Khan would so there's GOING to be a memory that no one will ever forget, but I don't want these movies to focus on him.

That's totally just my opinion, however. Not saying I'm right or wrong in any way.

It's okay, actually. At this point in time such an explanation is not really needed. Anakin/Vader should stay like he is now, an icon.

They've already mentioned clone armies in VII. And proudly anounced Ewan McGregor had a cameo.

I understand this movie as a celebration of the originals, but at no point it was a "Fuck the prequels" kind of movie, like Days of Future past was a "Fuck X3"

This. It's hilarious how many people still try to push the "they are trying to stay away from the prequels" mental wank.

 

[Perfect Cha0s]

Only if you assume it's literally the same people making both complaints

I don't. But you certainly don't see many people coming out of the woodwork asking for it to be more similar.

 

[JaseMath]

I hated it and didn't get an epic feel at all.Easily the worst film out of them all for me.

Harrison Ford should stop acting.

Norml is George Lucas confirmed.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

force == good with lightsaber
staff == good with a sword, two very different fight styles

Grievous?

 

[Sesuadra]

Yup. Kylo even tells Snoke she's untrained but stronger in the force than she knows.

She still really can't control the Force. She clearly accepts it faster and has a great affinity for it. She has a great talent but now she has to harness it. Luke will teach her that.

that's what I've been saying since the forst spoiler OT. she could use the force in those moments of intense fear for her life..but can she do all that stuff in training? controlled?

that's what she has to learn now.

 

[TheRyanx2]

yeah I don't either. at least for this trilogy.

I see Kylo Ren as a dark Anakin. By the end of this trilogy he'll go full Vadar and maybe even become mechanical.

I can see episode 9 ending on something of a cliffhanger:

The fully trained Rey nearly kills Kylo Ren and he is only saved by getting turned into a mechanical monster a la Vader.

History is cyclical

I like the mechanical angle. I was wondering before he revealed his face if maybe he had willingly disfigured his own face or body to be more like the grandfather he idolizes.