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[Not a Jellyfish]

And Rei was slammed into a tree and then fell the equivalent of 1 story to the ground, but she was just fine for fighting Kylo after that.

Touche but remember how tied the force is to ones emotions and feelings.

Kylo just killed his own father, he is struggling. Can't expect him to fight well under those conditions.

 

[aliengmr]

So whats up with the lack of pretty much any other type of ship in the film? I only recall seeing TIE fighters and X-Wing's, but i've only watched it one time so maybe I missed some other types that were in the shot?

(Talking like A-Wings, Y-Wings, B-Wings, TIE Interceptors, Imperial Landers, etc.)

I do recall seeing some AT-AT-type things walking in the distance on the death planet, but beyond that not much.

To limit confusion was what was said.

 

[Squire]

No link. Just something I think may happen.

Plot for Rogue One:

It is also interesting that the most prominent character here is a female (also played by a brit), who kind of would pass for Rey's mother. She may be a great pilot, good with languages and other things, explaining a lot of Rey's skills away. We may meet Rey's father too, if he is not to be Luke whom she may be destined to meet somewhere between Return of Jedi and The Force Awakens.

It's being released exactly a year from now. It would make sense to have a film that sheds some extra light on Rey's origin, not everything, but just enough to make it so that episode 8 doesn't have to have lots of exposition. Episode 8 is being released 6 months after Rogue One. I am certain it will end with some sort of tie-in to Force Awakens. And what better tie-in than revealing who her mother is?

Gotcha.

I lie it. I'm looking forward to Rogue One and there'd be a real symmetry there.

 

[minimumhippo]

So whats up with the lack of pretty much any other type of ship in the film? I only recall seeing TIE fighters and X-Wing's, but i've only watched it one time so maybe I missed some other types that were in the shot?

(Talking like A-Wings, Y-Wings, B-Wings, TIE Interceptors, Imperial Landers, etc.)

I do recall seeing some AT-AT-type things walking in the distance on the death planet, but beyond that not much.

This is something I hope they improve in the sequels. I would love some new vehicles. I really like the look of the new ships, the X-wings, Tie fighters and Kylo Ren's shuttle, I just want more!

 

[Cybit]

As a point of reference, look at what Luke does in ANH with no training. Obi-wan parks a helmet that blinds him over Luke's head, and he's blocking laser blasts with a lightsaber within ~2 minutes (three times in a row). At the end of the film Obi-wan tells him to "use the force" to make a nigh impossible shot by eye. He has no context for what that means or how to do it, but does it anyways. Very similar to Rey, who was largely just seeing what Kylo Ren was doing, trying it herself, and finding to her surprise she could do it. It's a bit compressed but I think in both cases a natural with the force was doing amazing things very quickly. (And she still got her tail kicked by Kylo, until the very end.)

The only thing that actually bugged me was using Force Persuasion on someone when she thinks the Jedi are basically myths earlier in the movie and she never sees it ever used on anyone in the cut of the movie that exists (also, mostly because it is a throwaway joke). Everything else is basically her pulling the typical fantasy hero tropes ala Luke / Gohan / insert hero who gains power when the chips are down and gets angry. The pacing of the movie also makes it much worse (since there are a lot of cuts, and there's no time for Rey to breathe). We also have the benefit to see Luke's whole journey through 3 episodes versus just one movie so far for Rey. Mind you, Rey's my 2nd favorite character besides Finn in the series (Finn is much more relatable from the first movie), and I still want my damn Rey shirt.

Plus, why is it a bad thing to have her be a Mary Sue? People like power fantasies, and often times main heroes, when introduced, are basically power fantasies. There's nothing inherently bad in her being a fairly common trope that pretty much every fantasy movie uses.

People seem to be getting upset that their favorite character might not be perfect, and getting super defensive about criticisms that all sorts of characters get now a days. People getting defensive (and refuting the criticism) is one thing, calling people sexist because they dare question the perfectness of Rey is extraordinarily insecure and thin skinned. That argument is basically "I don't agree with you, so I am calling you a bad human being."

 

[MisterHero]

Yeah, that bothered me too. And the fact that they still haven't shown a tie bomber of any sort.

Spoiler

Yes, I know that Tie bombers were only a thing in EU and Video games, but they were a great concept.

Tie Bombers were in Empire

 

[Steel]

Touche but remember how tied the force is to ones emotions and feelings.

Kylo just killed his own father, he is struggling. Can't expect him to fight well under those conditions.

Dark side feeds on fear, pain, and sadness as well as anger, so it actually should have improved his force powers (Hell, that's the only motivation I can think of, considering how weird that entire scene played out).

Tie Bombers were in Empire

Were they? Gonna need to go watch the movies again.

 

[Divvy]

Yeah, that bothered me too. And the fact that they still haven't shown a tie bomber of any sort.

Spoiler

Yes, I know that Tie bombers were only a thing in EU and Video games, but they were a great concept.

Tie Bombers were in Empire Strikes Back, in the asteroid sequence

 

[thefit]

Fuck the 3 year wait between films that was so dumb.

 

[JeTmAn81]

Does "I have a bad feeling about this" sound familiar to you?

That was definitely not one of those moments. It was framed as if he was sensing something in the Force.

 

[BigJonsson]

Yeah, that bothered me too. And the fact that they still haven't shown a tie bomber of any sort.

Spoiler

Yes, I know that Tie bombers were only a thing in EU and Video games, but they were a great concept.

Uhhhh.....

Go watch Empire again....

 

[kurahador]

Fuck the 3 year wait between films that was so dumb.

Just a year and a half.

 

[minimumhippo]

They really need a new version of the TIE Interceptor. Best TIE.

 

[zeemumu]

One thing is certain: Kylo Ren shouldn't have taken off the helmet. He reminds me a little of Anakin in the last 20 minutes of Episode III

 

[Garrett Hawke]

PREDICTION TIME

So based on all the evidence and research I have gathered, this seems the most likely outcome:

Han was ALREADY dying. He spoke with Kylo Ren beforehand and arranged to have Kylo Ren kill him so that Chewie wouldn't have to. This also meant that it would look like Kylo was loyal to the First Order, meaning that the resistance would be able to have an agent in SNoke's inner circle. This way Kylo will be able to sabotage Snoke's plans and keep Rey safe until she is able to kill him to collect the Elder Lightsaber.

 

[Steel]

Go watch Empire again....

This is a great plan.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

Kylo just killed his own father, he is struggling. Can't expect him to fight well under those conditions.

It was more like him killing his father was the end of that struggle. In his twisted view of the force, the light side was the seductive power beckoning him, the one he must resist. Him telling Solo that he was being torn apart and needed help was not about re-embracing the light, but rejecting it. The struggle might return again, but at that moment, it seemed his mind was as clear as it could be.

 

[1871]

They really need a new version of the TIE Interceptor. Best TIE.

Wasn't it the best one in xw v tf?

 

[JetBlackPanda]

One thing is certain: Kylo Ren shouldn't have taken off the helmet.

Uh no.. That's what makes him different and interesting. How many mean tough Sith characters do we need? This kid is a loser, poser punk that is still being pulled by the light.

It's way more interesting

 

[Shaanyboi]

One thing is certain: Kylo Ren shouldn't have taken off the helmet. He reminds me a little of Anakin in the last 20 minutes of Episode III

Nah, it shows his character for what he really is - an angry frustrated fanboy who thinks he's more of a badass than he really is. The fact that he wears this helmet with a voice modulator to intimidate others shows just how self-conscious and insecure he really is.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

I don't think it's been posted in here yet, apologies if it has, but for the soundtrack freaks among you (myself included) even if you think this score is the least of all 7 films (and especially if you DON'T think that), more John Williams is always a good thing.

Disney's For Your Consideration website uploaded an alternate version of the soundtrack. It loses some cues from the official soundtrack, and adds about 10-15 minutes of music not available on that soundtrack, in different arrangements.

01 The Attack on the Jakku Village Part 1 (5:27)
02 The Attack on the Jakku Village Part 2 (1:53)
03 The Scavenger (1:52)
04 Lunchtime (1:12)
05 I Can Fly Anything (4:09)
06 Finn’s Trek (1:35)
07 Follow Me and The Falcon (7:09)
08 The Rathtars (1:19)
09 Snoke (2:07)
10 You Got A Name? (1:32)
11 I’m No Hero (1:06)
12 The Starkiller (1:52)
13 Kylo Ren Arrives at the Battle (2:15)
14 The Resistance (1:35)
15 The Abduction (1:35)
16 Finn and Poe, United (2:01)
17 The Bombing Run (2:07)
18 On the Inside (2:54)
19 Torn Apart (4:24)
20 The Ways of the Force (3:58)
21 The Journey Home (2:18)
22 Farewell and The Trip (3:49)
23 The Jedi Steps and Finale (9:58)

 

[KadeYuy]

Taking the helmet off was awesome. Showed that he was a super vader fanboy.

 

[Steel]

Nah, it shows his character for what he really is - an angry frustrated fanboy who thinks he's more of a badass than he really is. The fact that he wears this helmet with a voice modulator to intimidate others shows just how self-conscious he really is.

Which makes him a piss poor main villain. He'd be an interesting side character, but as a main dish he's a wimp that really doesn't do much of anything but complain about how he's too weak and throws temper tantrums.

 

[zeemumu]

Nah, it shows his character for what he really is - an angry frustrated fanboy who thinks he's more of a badass than he really is. The fact that he wears this helmet with a voice modulator to intimidate others shows just how self-conscious and insecure he really is.

Uh no.. That's what makes him different and interesting. How many mean tough Sith characters do we need? This kid is a loser, poser punk that is still being pulled by the light.

It's way more interesting

I would have preferred if he had kept it on and then taken it off in a different movie. The intimidation that I felt in the trailer kinda wore off after he didn't have helmet hair. If he wasn't the Darth Vader to the new trilogy's Palpatine I wouldn't mind. He whines just a little too much.

 

[gregor7777]

Nah, it shows his character for what he really is - an angry frustrated fanboy who thinks he's more of a badass than he really is. The fact that he wears this helmet with a voice modulator to intimidate others shows just how self-conscious and insecure he really is.

This is exactly the way I saw it too.

 

[Cybit]

Wasn't it the best one in xw v tf?

The TIE Advanced / TIE Defender. The TIE Advanced I believe is Vader's TIE fighter in ANH.

 

[Toa TAK]

I don't think it's been posted in here yet, apologies if it has, but for the soundtrack freaks among you (myself included) even if you think this score is the least of all 7 films (and especially if you DON'T think that), more John Williams is always a good thing.

Disney's For Your Consideration website uploaded an alternate version of the soundtrack. It loses some cues from the official soundtrack, and adds about 10-15 minutes of music not available on that soundtrack, in different arrangements.

01 The Attack on the Jakku Village Part 1 (5:27)
02 The Attack on the Jakku Village Part 2 (1:53)
03 The Scavenger (1:52)
04 Lunchtime (1:12)
05 I Can Fly Anything (4:09)
06 Finn’s Trek (1:35)
07 Follow Me and The Falcon (7:09)
08 The Rathtars (1:19)
09 Snoke (2:07)
10 You Got A Name? (1:32)
11 I’m No Hero (1:06)
12 The Starkiller (1:52)
13 Kylo Ren Arrives at the Battle (2:15)
14 The Resistance (1:35)
15 The Abduction (1:35)
16 Finn and Poe, United (2:01)
17 The Bombing Run (2:07)
18 On the Inside (2:54)
19 Torn Apart (4:24)
20 The Ways of the Force (3:58)
21 The Journey Home (2:18)
22 Farewell and The Trip (3:49)
23 The Jedi Steps and Finale (9:58)

WOAH

Thanks for posting this. Been having the score on repeat, but more music is great.

 

[Divvy]

Which makes him a piss poor main villain. He'd be an interesting side character, but as a main dish he's a wimp that really doesn't do much of anything but complain about how he's too weak and throws temper tantrums.

I can see this point of view. The film does lack any really threatening villians aside from Kylo

 

[Pai Pai Master]

PREDICTION TIME

So based on all the evidence and research I have gathered, this seems the most likely outcome:

Han was ALREADY dying. He spoke with Kylo Ren beforehand and arranged to have Kylo Ren kill him so that Chewie wouldn't have to. This also meant that it would look like Kylo was loyal to the First Order, meaning that the resistance would be able to have an agent in SNoke's inner circle. This way Kylo will be able to sabotage Snoke's plans and keep Rey safe until she is able to kill him to collect the Elder Lightsaber.

already dying from what .

also where the fuck is chewie's medal, he set the charges he blew the place and he shot kylo ren. all he got is to watch his best friend get effed up

 

[Aselith]

I still like Rey being Sheev's granddaughter.

Why does it have to be granddaughter? You know that dude fucked. He's one of those old dudes with the charisma to be hitting it all over the galaxy on the regular. He probably has like 10 kids her age.

 

[minimumhippo]

Wasn't it the best one in xw v tf?

You just reminded me that I need to play this.

 

[Darth Karja]

Why does it have to be granddaughter? You know that dude fucked. He's one of those old dudes with the charisma to be hitting it all over the galaxy on the regular. He probably has like 10 kids her age.

Except he died 10 years before she was born.

 

[uncelestial]

As a point of reference, look at what Luke does in ANH with no training. Obi-wan parks a helmet that blinds him over Luke's head, and he's blocking laser blasts with a lightsaber within ~2 minutes (three times in a row). At the end of the film Obi-wan tells him to "use the force" to make a nigh impossible shot by eye. He has no context for what that means or how to do it, but does it anyways. Very similar to Rey, who was largely just seeing what Kylo Ren was doing, trying it herself, and finding to her surprise she could do it. It's a bit compressed but I think in both cases a natural with the force was doing amazing things very quickly. (And she still got her tail kicked by Kylo, until the very end.)

I'm coming around to the idea that Rey's mysterious backstory will go a long way towards explaining things and Kylo was fucked up during their fight, etc. I'm looking forward to seeing the movie again, and M*** S** criticisms aside, having a character as badass as Rey lends itself to lots of exciting stuff happening.

But I have to say here, Luke suuuucked so bad in the OT. He needs rescuing from Tuscan raiders by Obi-Wan and some random barflies by Obi-Wan, some trash compactor tentacle creature just "lets him go" or he would've been cooked, Darth Vader was about to shoot his X-Wing down before Han Solo showed up, the Emperor was about to kill him before Vader intervened, the snow monster captures him and he succumbs to the cold before Han saves him, just off the top of my head. He's lucky to be alive but he had great friends. The sense of a band coming together and a hero finding their way through loss, training, and improvement, are nice things to have. There's really no comparison with Luke, I just don't see that at all.

Having a ready-made hero who you just break open the glass and use in case of emergency is superhero shit. But, as I said -- I have a feeling they just didn't telegraph Kylo's "compromises" well enough, or establish how well-trained he was, and Rey's backstory is just missing right now. It'll come together in the end.

The whole things reminds me of this quote from an interview between Ricky Gervais and Larry David.

Ricky Gervais: I think you have to be a certain age to be funny. So few people under the age of 30 are funny.
Larry David: You have to discover when you're inadequate to be funny and you don't know you're inadequate when you're a kid.
Ricky Gervais: Exactly. Who wants to see unfeasibly good-looking, clever, popular people doing things brilliantly? Who cares?
Larry David: I started to become funny when I realised I was inferior and inadequate.
Ricky Gervais: Mine was when I got fat

 

[Ragnorok64]

I'm looking at the available figures and I'm realizing I literally can't afford to get back into toy collecting.

 

[Shaanyboi]

Which makes him a piss poor main villain. He'd be an interesting side character, but as a main dish he's a wimp that really doesn't do much of anything but complain about how he's too weak and throws temper tantrums.

You remember how he opens the movie by burning down a village, mass executing the populace, stopping a laser bolt mid-air, had the FO staff constantly on edge at how unstable he is, and murdered Han Solo?

 

[Frog-fu]

He actually lasted longer against Kylo than he did against...a Stormtrooper.

Didn't make much sense.

Kylo was toying with Finn. He deliberately let him fall and get up and took his time staring him down when he had him pinned against the tree and torched his arm.

Once Finn nicked him, Kylo got angry and then whooped him in 10 seconds.

 

[zeemumu]

I can see this point of view. The film does lack any really threatening villians aside from Kylo

I went into the film with nothing but the trailers to go on, so I was kind of expecting a Darth Maul level of intimidating Darth Vader fanboy. I can see what they're going for with giving him humanity and not pure evil, but it's been a while since I've seen straight up evil.

 

[JetBlackPanda]

I went into the film with nothing but the trailers to go on, so I was kind of expecting a Darth Maul level of intimidating Darth Vader fanboy.

And somehow keeping his mask on does this? If his mask is on the entire time it's fine?

What does his looks really have to do with anything

 

[MetalFearSolid]

Probably late unless someone has debunked this theory with some solid evidence but now probably sold on the theory of Darth Plaguesis being Snoke. Yes I heard about the themes being the same and stuff. I just came back from watching it for the 2nd time and noticed that Kylo Ren says to Han Solo that "Supreme Leader Snoke is wise"

Darth Sidious once said "Did you ever hear of the tragedy of Darth Plaguesis the Wise?"

I mean that is enough especially with the face wounds that Snoke has from a potential strike with a lightsaber by Sidious.

I don't buy the word being just a common word in that use.

 

[Monocle]

Which makes him a piss poor main villain. He'd be an interesting side character, but as a main dish he's a wimp that really doesn't do much of anything but complain about how he's too weak and throws temper tantrums.

Not at all. He starts out incredibly menacing, and then his flaws start to show. What a novelty, a villain with actual motivations and dimension.

Despite his erratic nature and brattiness, and the loss he suffered at the end, he was pretty damn effective throughout the film. Taking out the village, capturing Poe and extracting key information, capturing Rey, and eliminating his father.

 

[zeemumu]

And somehow keeping his mask on does this? If his mask is on the entire time it's fine?

What does his looks really have to do with anything

Because what I can imagine under that helmet is more powerful than what they can make.

Plus when he took it off it reminded me of this

 

[Steel]

You remember how he opens the movie by burning down a village, mass executing the populace, stopping a laser bolt mid-air, had the FO staff constantly on edge at how unstable he is, and murdered Han Solo?

The opening was the only time he felt threatening, and even then he wasn't really actively involved in the mass execution of the populace beyond giving an order. The constantly on edge bit goes to my temper tantrum point. And the scene where he murdered Han was incredibly awkward, imo (Though this can be partially chalked down to the fact that I had been expecting him to die the whole time since Harrison Ford wanted out).

Not at all. He starts out incredibly menacing, and then his flaws start to show. What a novelty, a villain with actual motivations and dimension.

His motivations are pretty poorly fleshed out beyond the "I'm a vader fanboy who was too cool for Luke's training".

 

[aliengmr]

The only thing that actually bugged me was using Force Persuasion on someone when she thinks the Jedi are basically myths earlier in the movie and she never sees it ever used on anyone in the cut of the movie that exists (also, mostly because it is a throwaway joke). Everything else is basically her pulling the typical fantasy hero tropes ala Luke / Gohan / insert hero who gains power when the chips are down and gets angry. The pacing of the movie also makes it much worse (since there are a lot of cuts, and there's no time for Rey to breathe). We also have the benefit to see Luke's whole journey through 3 episodes versus just one movie so far for Rey. Mind you, Rey's my 2nd favorite character besides Finn in the series (Finn is much more relatable from the first movie), and I still want my damn Rey shirt.

Plus, why is it a bad thing to have her be a Mary Sue? People like power fantasies, and often times main heroes, when introduced, are basically power fantasies. There's nothing inherently bad in her being a fairly common trope that pretty much every fantasy movie uses.

People seem to be getting upset that their favorite character might not be perfect, and getting super defensive about criticisms that all sorts of characters get now a days. People getting defensive (and refuting the criticism) is one thing, calling people sexist because they dare question the perfectness of Rey is extraordinarily insecure and thin skinned. That argument is basically "I don't agree with you, so I am calling you a bad human being."

When Luke does it no body says anything, but Rey is suddenly a master jedi because she mind tricked a guard on her third try.

Its the same with people expecting Ren to VaderSuperSith 2.0 only to cry foul because they missed the point.

All Rey did that was amazing, was do the thing Yoda and Kenobi tried to beat in to Luke's head for 2 movies.

Not at all. He starts out incredibly menacing, and then his flaws start to show. What a novelty, a villain with actual motivations and dimension.

The exact moment is when he takes of his helmet. His entire demeanor changes and the audience doesn't know what to feel. I think its going down as my favorite part of the movie.

 

[mcfrank]

How is the 3D? I don't care for 3D and have already seen it in 2d but I am going to the 3D imax tomorrow since that's what a friend wanted. Haven't seen a 3D movie since UP.

 

[Jack Scofield]

Not at all. He starts out incredibly menacing, and then his flaws start to show. What a novelty, a villain with actual motivations and dimension.

I really hope that all the fanboy bitching about Kylo Ren having emotions doesn't somehow alter the filmmakers' plans going forward.

The internet ruins everything.

 

[Beepos]

Did it bother anyone else that a lightsabre just didn't cut right through that Stormtrooper melee weapon? I know it was hitting mostly the 'electricity stun part' but I kept thinking it really should just be cutting through this weapon.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

How is the 3D? I don't care for 3D and have already seen it in 2d but I am going to the 3D imax tomorrow since that's what a friend wanted. Haven't seen a 3D movie since UP.

serviceable. doesn't ruin the movie, only slightly enhances it if 3D is your thing

 

[PHOENIXZERO]

Well, if Luke adhered to Yoda's training then he shouldn't have a daughter, and if Rey has a family connection to the saber then the only person left would be Han and Leia, who did have a force sensitive son and daughter in the EU, and the son turned to the dark side. So the line about the force running in the family could be referring to her being Luke's niece, whose death they probably faked to hide her from Kylo, or they just plain hid her and since he hasn't seen her since she was a little kid he didn't recognize her.

*shrug*

As far as we know Yoda never told him to never reproduce or any of that stuff that came about in the PT. Besides one would hope that after all these years of presumed study Luke would realize with his council of force ghosts how flawed the Jedi way could be.

It was more like him killing his father was the end of that struggle. In his twisted view of the force, the light side was the seductive power beckoning him, the one he must resist. Him telling Solo that he was being torn apart and needed help was not about re-embracing the light, but rejecting it. The struggle might return again, but at that moment, it seemed his mind was as clear as it could be.

Kylo thought that's what he needed to do, he thought it's what would end the conflict inside of him, he likely thought wrong. Even the dark side requires a level of focus and control that Kylo Ren simply did not have.

 

[Monocle]

I really hope that all the fanboy bitching about Kylo Ren having emotions doesn't somehow alter the filmmakers' plans going forward.

The internet ruins everything.

If they're smart they'll ignore everything fans say and just push forward. Based on TFA it's clear they know exactly how to make a great Star Wars film.

 

[minimumhippo]

I really hope that all the fanboy bitching about Kylo Ren having emotions doesn't somehow alter the filmmakers' plans going forward.

The internet ruins everything.

Yes this is the most interesting villain they have had yet. I'm actually excited to see his journey.