These are great points!
[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #2) - One Thumb Up
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These are great points!
I liked it much more than I remembered. But if I could cut out every scene between Padme and Anakin it would be exponentially better. robots.
it shows how R2D2 gets the map.
Just going to shamelessly quote myself here:
Regarding Rey being a Kenobi and the imagery involved this is what I noticed so far on my viewings:
Atraveller
Banned
The way Snoke called Kylo "master of the Knights of Ren" makes me think it's wasn't Snoke that founded it.
That's less cynical and more realistic I think.
Slamtastic
Member
So the Jedi were once huge in number and had their tragic downfall, and later Luke tried to start an academy but it was destroyed.
But, previously we've seen Obi-Wan train Luke, then after Obi-Wan's death, Yoda trained Luke, all these led to good outcomes, and now Luke will train Rey.
Darth Bane had the right idea about the rule of two, except it applies to the light side as well?
But, previously we've seen Obi-Wan train Luke, then after Obi-Wan's death, Yoda trained Luke, all these led to good outcomes, and now Luke will train Rey.
Darth Bane had the right idea about the rule of two, except it applies to the light side as well?
LookAtMeGo
Member
I would think so. Han is one of the most beloved characters in one of the biggest franchises in cinema.
Like I said. Its the first movie in a planned trilogy. Why would JJ ever depict Han as an asshole father deserving of his death in the first movie where he is establishing Kylo as the bad guy?
I thought the big moment of Hans death signified Kylos completion of becoming completely immersed in the dark side. A struggle he was having internally which was made apparent by his comments about not wanting to be "seduced by the ligh side" anymore.
Agreed.
Or its just the first movie in a trilogy and we will learn more about the story in the next few movies. Of course some stuff will be left for books and stuff, for those that want to know every little detail.
I think the accent is really important to note.
She didn't get that from Luke. I think that matters in-universe.
Yeah, I will actually be upset if this is the case.
KOTOR2 hinted at this effect iirc. The Jedi you meet on Nar Shadda.
Atraveller
Banned
Betrayal isn't in the nature of the light side, the Jedi Order got destroyed is because the Jedis are stupid, and because the Siths plotted against them. That's totally different from constant infighting between Sith lords and apprentices.
TheKaeptain
Banned
She also hears Yoda's voice.
The Sith exist almost exclusively due to the Jedi.
Finn's reasons, as explicitly stated by him, are
"I am not killing for them"
he is not opposed to killing in self defence, he is not opposed to killing 'the bad guys'
he simply refuses to kill for the bad guys. I don't see how that is considered an inconsistency.
It doesn't state specifically where they originate from, just that they are a new type of Dark Side user that bridge the gap.
Not sure who the Revanites are I'm afraid.
The Jedi got destroyed because they chose to operate within the system of the senate, as servants to the political system. Peace keepers regardless of the political tides that surrounded them. The schemes of the dark side where the only thing that could blind them.
Yoda actually in some ways sensed the schemes of palpatine coming, though it was never clear what was in store.
Seriously?
What's the big deal? Everyone acting like Star Wars is some magical twist filled saga. The only 'twist' in the originals was Darth Vader as Luke's father, and that's only a twist because they ass-pulled it in ESB. If Lucas knew in advance, you know he'd have done clunky set-up in ANH for it.
Otherwise, the plots have always been predictable. That IS Star Wars. Hell, Palpatine in the prequels only lacked a 'HE IS THE BAD GUY BOO HIM' title card whenever Sheev was on screen.
eyeball_kid
Member
My guess is Luke has leveled up to insane Jedi levels by hanging out at the First Temple with OG Jedi ghosts. He obviously 'ran away' from his failure, but he went to find answers and to become a better Jedi. He'll be the one taking on Snoke in Ep. 9.
I think Rey being related to one of the original trilogy cast would be kind of a let down, to be honest. We already have one in Kylo, not everything has to revolve around the Skywalkers.
If it has to be that way though, I'd probably prefer the Kenobi lineage or something similarly distant from the Skywalker bloodline.
If it has to be that way though, I'd probably prefer the Kenobi lineage or something similarly distant from the Skywalker bloodline.
On a side note, several years ago I bought a bunch of Master Replica sabres. One Vader one I've used the shit out of, but I have another Luke and Vader sabre that are still sealed. Just saw that they're going for $500 now. I paid like $80 for them each back in the day lol. Still wouldn't sell them though. I'm never selling them lol.
nice findings.
Hey, if the movie was Obi-Wan being all Jedi space detective, that sounds atleast moderately better. But the fact that the emotional crux of that movie was between a creepy murderous weirdo and an emotionally distant politician falling in love, reading garbage lines... just... ugh..
Why did Anakin have to be such a fucking awkward creeper? What if when he and Padme see eachother, there's this big embrace because they instead had kept in touch all these years via... whatever Star Wars' equivalent of the internet is? And Anakin could act like a not-socially inept creep? So when they see eachother, there isn't this awkward distance that we're forced to slog through and instead they're comfortably friends or something... Instead he's giving her fucking rapist stares and freaking the fuck out, talking about his soul after they kissed once.
Atraveller
Banned
Yeah but a Jedi Order is not unsustainable like the Siths are.
soxinthebox
Member
People can't fall in love in 4 years? Or get pregnant in a single evening?
There were still battles after the Endor. Plus the Jedi temple.
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
Sure that's all cool little callbacks and stuff but what's the actual narrative reason for her to related to kenobi? Like what would the audience gain from learning that kenobi had a secret family
no one knew about? I guess I just don't get why this over her being a skywalker, besides it being kinda cool.
soxinthebox
Member
Must've missed seeing those battles.
You did, not all battles are shown on screen. Like the battle of jakku happened a year after Endor
So two of my friends think Kylo ren was a "dumb" villain due to him being an "angsty teenager with no motivation" and just not as cool as someone like Darth Vadar or Palpatine. I thought he was one of the better villains for having seemingly more complex motivations than the characters in the previous films; his rusty nature with the force and his lightsaber brought a refreshing feeling, instead of being this max out badasses that we are use to seeing.
What are Gafs' thoughts on him?
What are Gafs' thoughts on him?
I think you're reading a bit too much into my comment. But I do see you're talking about other's thoughts.
For one it's too similar to the previous films. I don't want the Skywalker lineage to be the only competent heroic role. I feel Rey being Luke's daughter is already at odds with the universe as setup by TFA. I simply don't even think it will turn out that way. I don't see her being Kenobi's granddaughter as that big of a twist, unless they frame it as one. It would be more a revelation than a twist. I also think her being Kenobi's granddaughter would make much more sense given what we've seen. I think it would make Luke and her relationship more touching, versus him being her father but not being present in her life. It would allow Luke to be the same role Kenobi was to him. More of a godfather role.
soxinthebox
Member
Is there a series which covers those battles (genuinely curious)?
He was inexperienced and quick to prove himself. The way he thrashed around with his light saber showed he needed more training
IIRC the Sith Lords were banished Dark Jedi who established their Order on Korriban, further exploring the Dark uses of the Force.
Through the death of both Vader and Sidious, and thanks to the Rule of Two, the last of the Sith Lords were destroyed in Return of the Jedi, so the Knights of Ren being an entirely new Order of Dark Side Force-users with their own rules, conceptions and ideas is not completely out of the question.
He's proficient with the Force, and his motivations are unclear at this time; we know he is the son of Leia and Han, we know he trained with Luke, we know he turned to Snoke and that he idolizes Vader. What we do not know is if he idolized Vader before turning to Snoke or if Snoke turned him with some other means and showed him the ways of his grandfather later on. We also do not know what caused him to trash and murder the Jedi Academy of Luke.
He is, however, without patience; his tantrums show this, but also his lightsaber. Normally, a lightsaber would have a clear constant beam, his is unfocussed, jittery, the result of an incorrectly calibrated lens most likely. He wants to follow in his grandfather's footsteps, but he does not have the patience to train sufficiently to achieve his goal. He wants to take shortcuts.
They can do some cool thematic parallels (heck, thru already have), but even without that, if she's Luke's daughter, they'll have a hard time bringing that to beat in a believable way. I can't imagine Leia not sending it instinctively and I don't know how they resolve that.
TFA doesn't support her being Han or Luke's daughter. There's just nothing there.
The father-son card was already played with Han Solo-Kylo in this trilogy. Getting another father-daughter from the same family is South American soap opera script level, really.
Of course. These characters' stories clearly didn't just end at RotJ. They had lives, conflicts, etc.
soxinthebox
Member
He was my favourite part of the film. I liked that he failed along the way and showed emotion. Easily the best villain so far.
The comics are filling in a lot of back story like who Poe's parents were and then the battlefront game confirmed the battle of jakku takes place a year after Endor. The wookipedia really goes in depth though
He's easily the most interesting villain Star Wars has had in a long ass time. Palpatine was enjoyably cartoonishly evil in Revenge of the Sith, but he's hardly a rounded character. Even original Star Wars Vader wasn't all that fleshed out. He was just a big imposing goon. Kylo Ren was the best part of the movie, frankly.
Darth Maul was a cool design with great stunt work. Not a character. Dooku was Christopher Lee being Christopher Lee. Grevious was a fucking joke compared to how badass he was in the Tartakovsky cartoon.
Bots are better than you
Banned
I'd say, with the natural force-talent Rey has shown, she could very likely be the daughter of two force sensitive people. That can be Luke plus an still unkown female apprentice, or two unkown and maybe new characters.
I can't see Luke putting on the restrictions of the old Jedi order, so it's possible that he took in students that were around his age when Kenobi started his training, and that he won't forbid his students to have relationships.
Did Obi-Wan ever tell him that Jedi knights are not supposed to have relationships?
... you have watched Star Wars before, right?
Admiral Woofington
Member
Yeah I'm glad we got an imperfect villain for once. Every star wars media seems to love having the ultimate badass at the moment be the main baddie.
The Revan sometimes known as "Darth" is the weft around which the Old Republic timeline is woven. He was a Sith Darth who was captured by Jedi that wiped his memories. He has an Adventure and eventually returns to the Light. Knights of the Old Republic is his main story. His story echoes through KOTOR 2 and also in The Old Republic MMO. He's a dark / light bridge.
But does it complete his immersion? Some people have chalked Kylo's whooping in the forest up to him being emotionally distraught about killing Han. If his plan was to do this thing to harden his heart, it's unclear if that's worked. After he kills Han he has just the one line to Rey, right? I can't really say anything about how committed to the Dark Side he is now. Maybe he regrets it so totally that he's ready to ditch the Dark Side entirely?
You said this movie is obviously first in a trilogy and yeah I agree. It's conspicuously first in a trilogy. It requires a trilogy because it isn't a complete (or even, I think, satisfying) story. A New Hope was a complete story. Even Phantom Menace was more complete (if still insipid) than this one.
Well in the EU correct me if wrong guys luke actually trains his then to be wife in the ways of the force and most of the people he trains are adults. Luke allows marriage and some other stuff.
Slamtastic
Member
I suppose it goes back to your interpretation of the "balance" concept and the prophecy.
Some assumed that Anakin had fulfilled his role in the prophecy by equalizing the light and dark sides (Obi-Wan and Yoda vs Vader and Sidious), whereas I have heard that Lucas said in interviews that being imbalanced towards the light was the natural order.
What an interesting twist it would be if the force was causing these cosmic events to thin the herd because the optimal status for the universe is a very small number of powerful/influential/trained force users of both sides and not a bunch of people running around actively using powers constantly.
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