That stuff isn't in the film, and it should have been. But that's the stuff that was in the various books that have been released to tie-in with the movie.
[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #2) - One Thumb Up
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That stuff isn't in the film, and it should have been. But that's the stuff that was in the various books that have been released to tie-in with the movie.
JetBlackPanda
Member
The novel has Kylo straight up say "it is you" and the novel is considered canon.
MiamiWesker
Member
Rey could not have been dropped off Jakku by Luke or any good person. They left her with Unkar who is a total shit head, what kind of family does that.
It seemed to be some last minute dump off this cargo we have in the nearest system kind of thing.
It seemed to be some last minute dump off this cargo we have in the nearest system kind of thing.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
I wonder if Finn realizes that Poe killed that trooper.
Luke is obviously safely hiding for many years and nobody can find him. Wouldn't that be the safest place to keep his daughter instead of sacrificing her?
If Rey isn't a Skywalker then Ben has to be redeemed at the end and survive the trilogy. Because in the future when they do another trilogy of 10-12 it needs to have a Skywalker descendent as the focal point again. Much easier to continue the family line past 9 with Rey.
No its not impossible. But from the movie canon reestablishing a Kenobi grandchilds history is going to be very shoehorned in there. My perspective is through the lens of what material and ideas they are using from the Expanded Universe and how they are paralleling it. Star Wars is about the Skywalker bloodline so for them to ditch the idea of Luke having a kid seems crazy.
The existence and death of Mara Jade(his wife) underpins much of Lukes character development as a Jedi. Mara is killed by Jacen Solo, who eventually goes on to become a Sith Lord. Jacen was a twin in the EU but i think they are ditching that because Rey would have been acknowledged by Han/Leia already I think. They might not even know if she was Rey if Luke was being that secretive about it.
It could be that the visions Rey saw of the Temple falling are either suppressed memories or from those of her mother. Also if as a child she felt the death of her mother through the Force then she could close herself off from it due to trauma until she reawakened. So she might actually be slightly trained/attuned in those pre Jakku days as an infant.
Also little tidbits about Kylo offering to train Rey parallel the EU in which Ben Skywaker was the apprentice to Jacen Solo.
As far as Luke knowing that his nephew was falling to the Dark Side, he was going to try to turn him back. Kicking him out would just be handing him directly over to Snoke anyway so he probably convinced himself he was safer keeping him close. Might not have known that he was dragging down other students with him.
The larger the fall of the new Jedi Order the better the motivation for Luke to seek out the 1st Jedi Temple and find a way to bring balance and stop the Sith/Jedi power cycle.
Just my theory anyway. Up to JJ and his people
I actually forgot about that. Makes it even more odd.
shortsFortallPeople
Banned
No? why should he force her to lead a life of exile and loneliness at the edge of buttfuck when she's so young and has her whole life ahead of her? Mind wipe her and let her live her life on her own, the very same chance at a normal life that Obiwan and Yoda gave to him.
The sacrifice isn't leaving her there to die at the hands of the dark side. The sacrifice i was referring to was Luke having to leave his daughter behind, possibly forever, and to live with that heartache on his own, for the remainder of his life, because this is the best option for her.
George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
Probably because they're going to make another one with the new outfit at the end of the film plus lightsaber.
Yeah, a life of working for food during childhood is much better.
JetBlackPanda
Member
I mean even if he did. Poe is a good guy. Fin knows this. His buddy was doing the deeds of the first order it's really them to blame. Doesn't seem that odd
WadiumArcadium
Member
Aftermath has a lot of terrible reviews because it was targeted by by the Bring Back Legend crowd. It's by no means brilliant but its better than those reviews suggest.
It's still set thirty years before the film though and doesn't feature any of the main characters in any more than a cameo role.
New Republic: Bloodline that comes out next March will be the closest time-wise to the film. Claudia Gray did a good job with Lost Stars so I have high hopes for it.
CassidyIzABeast
Member
I feel like Finn should have mentioned Starkiller Base when he was talking about knowing how awful the First Order was. If he ran from the TFO because they slaughtered the village, then the threat of a super weapon that will slaughter billions should've weighed heavy on his conscious as well.
How do stormtroopers act?
30yearsofhurt
Member
Yeah I want a Rey figure.
She's such a great character and heroine.
Abrams, Kasdan and Ridley delivered.
She's such a great character and heroine.
Abrams, Kasdan and Ridley delivered.
Theodoricos
Member
There probably will be one in the future. I hope so, at least. After all, most people who haven't watched the film or haven't been spoiled about it yet would think Finn is the new Jedi character thanks to the way the film was advertised.
Releasing a Rey Jedi figure would be too early.
Skellig Gra
Member
Maybe, also as I've said earlier in the thread, there is the chance Leia is her mother instead of Luke being the father.
shortsFortallPeople
Banned
well it certainly beats going insane out of boredom and loneliness and also the possibility of being killed by her older cousin because she could develop into a threat. And again, you assume she wasn't being passively watched over in a similar fashion that Obiwan watched over Luke on Tatooine.
We can keep at it, none of this is that relevant when we're basically discussing Act 1 of a three part story
Well, he tried to tap dat Rey, but missed.
I think the argument re the bolded is that he was keeping her safe.
If Rey is Luke's force-sensitive daughter, and Kylo tried to kill all of Luke's students, he would then try to kill her. Luke hides her on a craphole of aplanet to keep her safe.
When Fin first meets Poe, he doesn't know that at all(the opposite is implied as he was supposed to have been raised since birth to see The First Order as the good guys). His first impression of him is killing Stormtroopers together.
I don't think it was anything "personal" for Finn. He just freaked out at the sight of death in front of him. It's not like Poe killed Finn's best friend or something.
Finn has been a soldier in a heavily regulated military since he was a child. Some of the jokes he was making shouldn't fit his background like saying he's a big shot and all that.
No, I didn't think it was personal either. It just seemed like he was rejecting the death of anyone. And then he later has a great time killing stormtroopers.
JetBlackPanda
Member
Nah, this is a nerd forum filled with Star Wars fans that want to discuss everything.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
It's in the OP
Vampirolol
Member
I know this thread is doomed the becone Finn's butt discussion again.
shortsFortallPeople
Banned
well, its not the same to kill innocent civilians as opposed to trained killing machines.
The real question is: what percentage of the first order's army consists of volunteers and how much of it is made up troopers forced into service? Is Finn part of a small percent of forced stormtroopers?
Theodoricos
Member
He recognizes that ever since he turned, he's actually been fighting for a good cause. Doing nothing would be worse considering the atrocities that the First Order has been committing that he has intimate knowledge of.
I did think that was odd as well, how suddenly it was fine to kill random stormtroopers after he himself was in their shoes. But then again, what's he supposed to do, negotiate with them?
I think any of Finn's possible conflicts were muffled by that stormtrooper with the cool melee weapon yelling "TRAITOR!" at him. That stormtrooper held a deep allegiance that Finn never understood.
If anyone's read Before the Awakening, Poe's section gives a little bit more detail on the relationship between the Republic and Resistance and how the First Order factors into galactic relations. It's mostly what you would expect.
The First Order is a neo-Imperial loyalist junta existing in the Outer Rim that signed on to the Galactic Concordance, preventing it from officially rearming beyond some acceptable level or from building new weapons. Obviously the FO doesn't care about this and is secretly building top of the line TIE Fighters and Resurgent-class Star Destroyers, although how they get these resources isn't talked about. In Finn's section, however, we know that the FO views itself as the defender of galactic stability and civilization and thinks of the Republic as a bunch of weak degenerates who have allowed piracy, gangsterism, and - interestingly - alien invasions increase, so I wonder if that means we're going to get something like the Nagai-Tof, Ssi-Ruk, or Yuuzhan Vong back in the canon.
Anyway, galactic borders are strictly defined, and even though the FO keeps encroaching on NR territory the NR refuses to respond unless there is some sort of act of open warfare. Poe originally serves in the NR Navy and when he's on a scouting mission he stumbles onto the FO attacking and capturing, the Yissina Zyde. When he returns to base he asks permission to investigate but is not allowed because of orders from on high (although Poe doesn't know if this means from the Senate or military high command). Poe and the commanding officer argue about whether the FO should be confronted more directly, with the officer saying that there are "rumors" of the Resistance countering them. Poe decides to risk a court martial anyway and goes out by himself, eventually finding the Zyde and learning that it contained materials that could be useful for building turbolasers, so he speculates that the FO captured it for its resources. When he returns to base he expects to be scolded but instead ends up being taken away in secret by Major Ematt who brings him to a meeting with Leia, who recruits Poe to the Resistance (she asks him at one point if he's heard of the Resistance and he tells her that he has heard there are elements of the military who are disgruntled with the Senate's policy, so they split off and formed their own organization; Leia tells him this is "mostly true").
Poe then spends some time working in the Resistance, going around and recruiting other people. Most of the Resistance top brass are ex-Rebels, with Leia having been shunned by the NR government for being an "alarmist" about the FO, but at this point the Resistance is still not openly fighting with the FO - their goal instead is to gather evidence of FO criminality to present it to the Senate, which would tie in with the deleted scene of Kor Sella being sent by Leia to Hosnian Prime. Anyway, they learn that there is a senator who is a traitor supplying information to the FO and Poe is sent on a mission to capture the Senator's yacht so he can download the information from it, but the mission goes wrong when he gets ambushed by FO ships. He still manages to get away with the data, which points to the location of Lor San Tekka, who Leia has been looking for.
Anyway, galactic borders are strictly defined, and even though the FO keeps encroaching on NR territory the NR refuses to respond unless there is some sort of act of open warfare. Poe originally serves in the NR Navy and when he's on a scouting mission he stumbles onto the FO attacking and capturing, the Yissina Zyde. When he returns to base he asks permission to investigate but is not allowed because of orders from on high (although Poe doesn't know if this means from the Senate or military high command). Poe and the commanding officer argue about whether the FO should be confronted more directly, with the officer saying that there are "rumors" of the Resistance countering them. Poe decides to risk a court martial anyway and goes out by himself, eventually finding the Zyde and learning that it contained materials that could be useful for building turbolasers, so he speculates that the FO captured it for its resources. When he returns to base he expects to be scolded but instead ends up being taken away in secret by Major Ematt who brings him to a meeting with Leia, who recruits Poe to the Resistance (she asks him at one point if he's heard of the Resistance and he tells her that he has heard there are elements of the military who are disgruntled with the Senate's policy, so they split off and formed their own organization; Leia tells him this is "mostly true").
Poe then spends some time working in the Resistance, going around and recruiting other people. Most of the Resistance top brass are ex-Rebels, with Leia having been shunned by the NR government for being an "alarmist" about the FO, but at this point the Resistance is still not openly fighting with the FO - their goal instead is to gather evidence of FO criminality to present it to the Senate, which would tie in with the deleted scene of Kor Sella being sent by Leia to Hosnian Prime. Anyway, they learn that there is a senator who is a traitor supplying information to the FO and Poe is sent on a mission to capture the Senator's yacht so he can download the information from it, but the mission goes wrong when he gets ambushed by FO ships. He still manages to get away with the data, which points to the location of Lor San Tekka, who Leia has been looking for.
Even the clones have pretty well fleshed out personalities in the Clone Wars series.
WadiumArcadium
Member
Quite similar to the clones really. They were essentially slaves to do the Republic's bidding.
Inferno313
Banned
Wonder if they'll address this at all in the trilogy. Maybe a sequence where Finn rescues some young Stormtroopers in training. Could be a bit heavy for Star Wars, but would make for a strong character moment for Finn.
shortsFortallPeople
Banned
Given the heavy handed use of Nazi-like imagery and such, i wouldn't be shocked if the army is assembled similarly to germany's WWII army in that a good chunk of the troops actually want to be part of the war machine and that those forced into it are in the minority.
I'm pretty sure the dude who wanted to throw down with Finn when he had the lightsaber was part of the former and not the latter lol
It's implied by Ren that they were almost all forced and "programmed". And Finn was one of them(thus his name being a code number). So, yeah, he's not part of a small percent.
When does he have time to process that the resistance is any better? Why does he think Luke is a good person worth finding? Even ignoring that, why does he take joy in killing people who are in the same position that he used to be in not long ago?
That's definitely addressed in the movie. They mention Finn was put up for rehabilitation after the Jakku village attack, and that this was his first recorded incident (and it's also mentioned this was his first combat mission). So it's implied he's not the first one to act out but usually they have a whole program in place for troopers to keep them indoctrinated (or presumably executed should it fail). Finn escaped before they could do that.
Theodoricos
Member
He stood aside and lowered his weapon, none of the other stormtroopers fighting him did the same thing. Some, like the melee guy, even specifically targeted him because he was a traitor.
Thank you very much for the information.
They're following orders, and they're indoctrinated. That explains why he defends himself, which I wasn't arguing against, it doesn't explain why he enjoys killing them.
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