They clearly spent the entire manufacturing budget on the StarKiller
[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #2) - One Thumb Up
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They clearly spent the entire manufacturing budget on the StarKiller
OricWindstar
Member
Totally agree. He's literally trying to punch the humanity out of himself in that final duel. Seems like killing his father didn't cleanse him of the light as well as he intended.
AndrewDean84xX
Banned
Saw the movie last night. Loved it. I'm very pleased with Ren. He's so flawed. He's a child with power. And once his power was challenged, his true level of skill was made obvious. He is weak. Hence why his master wants to finish Ren's training.
Good things to come.
Good things to come.
well, I guess that's where we reach the mid point we can agree on, then. I don't mind midichlorians being the explanation I just don't wanna know it and specially don't want that scene
like I said, your argument is and would be interesting if they actually dealt with that, with midichlorian count being a take on it and having people disagree with it. wasted opportunity
That's a big reason why I liked about the prequels. It showed the Jedi were careless and arrogant despite being badasses.
Already Torn
Banned
Oh yeah, they're definitely going to do that. But considering the only reason Finn wanted to go to the Death Star was to save Rey, Rey only wants to find a family, Kylo Ren only wants to live up to Darth Vader etc I think you could still have an entertaining and meaningful story without that if they slow things down a bit.
Like the movie didn't even really place impact on the fact that Coruscant blew up you know? It knew people didn't care about that threat as much as they did about the characters. Leia is more distraught about losing her son and losing Han than losing those planets.
Midichlorians were a very very minor thing, so it's not like they're a major reason why the prequels are bad. But they're representative of the prequels greater failing: their extreme over reliance on telling, not showing. We get that with Obi-Wan and Anakin only talking about their goofy adventures and budding friendship, not actually seeing it, we get that with the completely flat villains of Maul, Dooku, and Grievous, and of course we get that with applying a DBZ power level to the force.
Interesting internal monologue speculation we didn't hear/see: "Shit, I killed my dad, and I still wanna be good!"
For sure.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
I fucking hate Ren. He might actually be the most hateful antagonist. Palpatine is just doing what he does. You've got to respect his goals and willingness to do whatever he takes. Vader could be redeemed.
Ren is a whirlwind, and a hateful character right now too. Fuck that guy.
Ren is a whirlwind, and a hateful character right now too. Fuck that guy.
The Librarian
Banned
This is why Rey will not turn to the dark side http://www.ew.com/article/2015/12/22/star-wars-force-awakens-rey
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
School shooter with a lightsaber.
PrivateWHudson
Member
Because it's stupid. Star Wars is Fantasy, while Star Trek is Sci-Fi. A mystical force binding us together with some people who are super in tune with it being able to "feel" others that can or have learned to be in tune with it as well is nice.
To use a gadget to read how many Gb/s a person can draw of the force is fucking dumb.
The Force is still as Fantasy as Fantasy gets. Even Midichlorians are Fantasy. We are talking about organisms that can tap into a supernatural energy field.
When did I say I hated the prequels? You're putting words in my mouth.
only reason I don't absolutely loathe Kylo Ren is cause of the casting, which is kinda funny
him taking off the mask during the talk with Ridley, him having that stupid child like clean face, and Adam's performance really make a strong push for an evil character you also feel sorry for. You feel sorry for how confused he is and how fuckin wrong he got it.
there's a huge sadness about him that really shines cause of the casting and character design, and it's very cool to see. He could be absolutely despicable but something about the way the character was portrayed leaves some room for shit. It's just fucking great. I love him.
but yeah fuck that guy
Already Torn
Banned
That sums it up pretty perfectly! I feel like a lot of kids and stuff want to be Darth Vader and Darth Maul because they wear black and have red lightsabers. Kylo Ren shows what a person who relies on hate and anger and all of the emotions of the Dark Side would really be like, a fucking creepy pathetic weirdo. So good.
<3 Kylo Ren
OricWindstar
Member
I love it.
Being evil came naturally to the Emperor. Kylo is fighting tooth and nail to be evil. He's decided being great is more important than being good and he thinks embracing the Dark Side is how he'll get there.
The Elite
BOSS
Dude. C'mon.... I'm not even bashing or blaming you for hating them. I actually think that's completely fine.
ProudCanuck
Banned
Give it time. He will be remembered as one of the best characters in star wars, such a well written character.
Is this the hallway that Rey saw in her vision?
No. The one she saw was from Empire Strikes Back. The hallway where Luke fights against Vader at Cloud City.
The Librarian
Banned
She spent an entire movie sitting around and being pregnant. Who wants to be that?
Is it still as Fantasy as can get? Or did it unnecessarily muddy the waters?
The midiclorians are a mess, real simple. The very best we can say about them is that they're inessential.
ProudCanuck
Banned
I am hedging bets that Rian Johnson is about to deliver an even bigger blow than 'I am your father' in episode 8
The truth is we don't know. And by "we" in this case, I mean the Resistance. The Resistance knows they're an imperial remnant/successor and that they have been hitting planets in the galactic rim, but other than that? Planets controlled? Fleet strength? Intel on key operatives? The Resistance doesn't seem to have any of this stuff.
And they are actively opposing these guys. Seems like prior to Hosnian Prime going up in a ball of fire, no one else in the Republic even really believed they were a thing. Or if they did, they certainly didn't care. It was just Leia and Co. railing on about how dangerous these guys are, looking like a bunch of war hawk loonies.
Hey, here's a bit of KOTOR lore that could explain the New Order's surprising industrial capabilities: maybe Snoke found the Star Forge.
I like him currently cause I really think they have some damn work cut out for themselves on his backstory
explaining how he got here and how you turn him to this degree is gonna be tough
they can fuck it up and not knowing right now makes him very cool and exciting.
I hope they don't fuck it up
AndrewDean84xX
Banned
I'd be more distraught over losing my wife and daughter over millions of people on a different planet.
The Librarian
Banned
What does this mean?
I don't get how it muddied the waters. Even as a 13 year old when I first watched the film I still got it. Midichlorians may be a biological organism, but those things are still tapping into a supernatural energy.
That's fantasy as fuck.
I think it's even generous to claim that Leia mattered. Isn't her biggest accomplishment (in the OT) choking Jabba to death? Okay, I guess she helped the strike team on Endor?
Already Torn
Banned
I really want to play as Kylo Ren in a good Star Wars fighting game. Too bad EA doesn't really have a studio to handle that well. I want to combo from a haymaker into a wild lightsabre slash. His special skill is punching himself, which increased damage but weakens him.
Another RPG set in this Star Wars where everything isn't stupid would be great too.
Another RPG set in this Star Wars where everything isn't stupid would be great too.
Exactly! We don't need a Death Star to have a thrilling next two movies, but you know they're gonna do it anyway unfortunately.
Liquidsnake
Banned
Is Disney making money to have the name on Grapes
Coffee Nate etc. or are those companies getting paid by Disney to advert on their shit?
Coffee Nate etc. or are those companies getting paid by Disney to advert on their shit?
PrivateWHudson
Member
But why? It's 100% not needed and just confuses things further. If they are organisms, then what does that have to do with family lineage? Do they multiply as you get bigger, or are you packed full of them as an infant? Can you get more? What if you have a blood transfusion, can you lose some? How is it measured, in density or total amount? How can a handheld scanner count all of them if it's total amount? If it's density, does Yoda actually have less than most other Jedi?
Nah, Yoda and Obi-Wan both had bad vibes about training Anakin. They both reluctantly agreed to training Anakin because Qui-Gon "I don't sense anything" Jinn wouldn't take no for an answer.
8BitsAtATime
Member
Why is everyone saying that Ren was weak. The dude got shot by Chewies bowcaster and he survived. Earlier in the movie stormtroopers were getting hit and were sent flying because if how powerful it was.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
Obi-Wan vs Anakin was perfectly fine if you cut the flashy stuff that was added to one up not only Star Wars fights but POTC and sword fights in cinema history(wire swing, lava surfing, pillar falling)
It actually told a character story fine
2 highly skilled Jedi.
Obi-Wan goes for one maybe two offensive attacks that entire fight.
Meanwhile Anakin is just raging out and trying to brute force it.
I really wish Lucas hadn't added that extra crap and spliced the Yoda fight into it because honestly its a darn good 1on1 saber fight.
Easily could have been the best part of the trilogy. You are perfectly right too, without the Yoda fight spliced in, without the extraneously choreographed moves and without the stupid lava surfing on robots stuff, it's an excellent battle that really captures what's going on with the two main characters of the saga. But all that extra garbage does ruin it.
it's funny how the whole Kylo bit with "im being torn apart" was basically as corny a line as this but it fucking destroyed and fell into place so, so well.
it's the opposite of this scene, it's what that prequel scene was supposed to be
That's the impression I had too (I think it's mentioned in the title crawl?)
The republic doesn't see them as a threat, nothing a small Resistance for can't deal with.
Although Starkiller got destroyed and FO probably lost a ton of people in that, they probably do have a bit of a political advantage at the moment, with the Republic's capital and its leader destroyed and dead.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Yup. In the ANH novelization, the present Emperor was not the founder of the Empire, and the Empire actually preceded the extinction of the Jedi:
Which is why the novelizations are not canon and why we should take the TFA novel with a grain of salt.
Already Torn
Banned
He's strong, but he's weak emotionally and pretty pathetic overall I think. He's great!
LaserBuddha
Member
Exactly.
Your midichlorian count just determines how much you can tap into "magic", like how many buckets you put out determines how much rain water you can collect.
The big problem with midichlorians is that they suggest your force ability is a genetic accident of birth, rather than being chosen by the mystical forces of the universe because of your quality of character or destiny whatever.
The Elite
BOSS
'I am your cousin'
No. It's not 100% needed.
But I fail to see how it confuses things.
Are midichlorians unnecessary? Yeah. Are they confusing? I must have been some sort of 13 years old supergenius, because I was never confused by any of it.
GustyGardens
Banned
As I understand it.
Coffee Mate pays money to Disney to license the Star Wars characters. They sign a contract concerning how the character limitations and how they can be used. The consumer buys the products, which pays Coffee Mate and continues to pay for licensing fees.
This really seems like it should be the thing I don't know why they didn't bother communicating it in the movie.
Some people read his poor performance in the woods as reflecting an inner turmoil over this but I don't know if that tracks. Maybe killing Han did bring him up to his full potential, but unfortunately he was born with low midiclorians count so that's as far as he can go.
>.> I'm not even claiming you're bashing me lol. All love here.
I'm saying we can plainly see that not everyone "gets it" or at least that not everyone agrees on the specifics of how they get it. It opens this whole fandom discussion and confusion and it doesn't really gain us anything, at least not anything I'm glad to have gained.
keltickennedy
Member
Is this the hallway that Rey saw in her vision?
No, I think it was the hallway in ESB. Luke also saw it in his vision while training on Dagobah.
here's another great thing about Kylo Ren aka best star wars character aka <3:
he basically already fucked up. He doesnt know how Vader went down. He doesnt know that he sacrificed himself cause he put his own family ahead of the dark side. Anakin ultimately chose family. Above all. He fucking killed the emperor.
Kylo Ren already killed his fucking father for the Dark Side. He thinks it was the right thing. The Vader move. Vader would fuckin bitch slap the brat. He did the absolute opposite of what his hero and idol did when faced with the same situation.
He tried to live up to the legacy of the dark side and his family and he already fucking screwed up HARD, with both.
that's the turning point in future films. that's what he'll learn and go nuts about. but how the hell does it work when he already killed a beloved character? it doesnt, and he dies a fuckin sad pathetic tragic figure with the coolest arc in the saga.
he basically already fucked up. He doesnt know how Vader went down. He doesnt know that he sacrificed himself cause he put his own family ahead of the dark side. Anakin ultimately chose family. Above all. He fucking killed the emperor.
Kylo Ren already killed his fucking father for the Dark Side. He thinks it was the right thing. The Vader move. Vader would fuckin bitch slap the brat. He did the absolute opposite of what his hero and idol did when faced with the same situation.
He tried to live up to the legacy of the dark side and his family and he already fucking screwed up HARD, with both.
that's the turning point in future films. that's what he'll learn and go nuts about. but how the hell does it work when he already killed a beloved character? it doesnt, and he dies a fuckin sad pathetic tragic figure with the coolest arc in the saga.
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