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[brandonh83]

That reminds me, the editing during the fights were poor.

My only problem and this shit happens every time, but when there's a lightsaber duel going on

I DON'T GIVE A FRACTION OF A SHIT ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE

It doesn't matter how good what it cuts to is. It's going to annoy me as just a second ago I'm right in the middle of a badass saber fight. Until it's over, I don't care about anything else. Otherwise I had no problem with the editing or cinematography.

 

[Garlador]

What if.... she's no-one importants' kid. And is literally just a diamond in the rou diamond in the diamond in the diamond.

That would make Finn the princess trying to escape, BB8 the adorable Abu sidekick, Luke the mystical wish-fulfiller, and Kylo Ren the scheming underling.

Hux is the Iago and Chewie is the carpet.

 

[Solo]

Yeah that scene with the smugglers and the creatures chasing them around the ship was the worst part of the movie and felt exactly like the monster scene in ST2009 when Kirk was marooned. Both were equally unnecessary/pointless.

 

[Hawkian]

the amazing thing about watching the OT as a kid was the sense of mystery and adventure. There's very little mystery when youre watching a half remake of ANH.

I think an important aspect of the production of this movie was that it wasn't just catering to the nostalgiagasm of 18- to 34-year-old fans, but also designed very consciously for kids watching the movie in theaters... kids for whom The Force Awakens will be, in some very meaningful ways, the first "real" Star Wars movie they've seen from their perspective.

I watched TFA at its opening sitting next to my 12-year-old nephew. He has seen all 6 other movies and loves Empire, but it's really the general universe and idea of Star Wars that he loves, rather than the films of either the original or prequel trilogy "being Star Wars" in his mind. For him A New Hope is almost more of a novelty than a real movie. This is difficult to explain without the context of watching a kid grow up and get into Star Wars just over the last decade, but it's sort of like... we all know when watching Episode IV that it is the genesis of Star Wars; without it, there would be no universe for all of these stories to take place in. It's impossible for us to detach from the knowledge that it is what sparked this gigantic imaginative journey in the first place.

But it's not like that for him. Try to imagine that somehow, Star Wars was already a completely established universe with lots of stories in it to choose from and then A New Hope, just as we know it today, was released. How would it feel? There's been a lot of discussion of it being a film that was a garbled behemoth during production, largely saved in editing. The sound design and some of the effects, especially the matte paintings and miniature work, hold up wonderfully. But my nephew has grown up seeing countless fan films on YouTube that look more impressive than Luke's saber training with the floating ball. Rotoscoping relics like the saber appearing white when it should be blue are hilarious to him. Hamill's acting is often chuckle-worthy from a modern perspective- imagine Luke without the weight of the saga behind him, John Williams' ethereal score or Alec Guinness and Harrison Ford to play off of and the character isn't quite so compelling in that movie as an isolated story. I say all of this as someone who absolutely loves the movie; I've seen it more times than any of the others. And for that matter, he loves it too- but the sense of mystery and adventure in Episode IV just isn't as strong for him as it was for me- he "knew Star Wars" before ever having seen it.

Fast forward to The Force Awakens, and... yeah. He's over the moon about it. All of that mystery and wonder I experienced as a kid is what he's experiencing right now. He couldn't care less that the story beats are retreads of previous ones. He even acknowledged that "they already do that all the time" as in RotJ and the many references in the prequels. Whereas for us it feels so much like all TFA wants to do is desperately be like the OT, for him there's what Star Wars used to be like and what Star Wars is like right now, in real-time. When the movie ended he immediately goes, "holy crap I hope they make another one." And then I told him we already know there definitely will be an 8 and 9. That look on his face, that's the mystery and wonder you're talking about, and I promise you it's in there, even if it's harder to perceive as people who grew up on the older movies since that's all there was for us.

None of this is to take away from the magic of the OT and I know that kids enjoy the prequels plenty (well, parts of them) too. But I promise you the movie was made with this factor in mind and it was one of the things it did get right.

 

[Danthrax]

Let see next christmas movies...
2016: Assassin's Creed
2017: Avatar 2
2018: Avatar 3
2019: Avatar 4

So... Star wars 8 and 9 on May?

2016: Star Wars Rogue One

Finally saw the movie last night and it was pretty tood, but it bugged me how they drained he sun but everyone on thhat planet didnt just instantly freeze and die...

A planet is capable of holding some heat in its atmosphere for a while, I imagine.

 

[Ophelion]

Something I've been thinking about and can't remember from my studies of the Jedi in my youth: Does training with a Jedi, Sith or equivalent force tradition provide one greater mastery over the Force or greater mastery over yourself?

We've never before seen an untrained person use force powers (though I would argue that Luke used quite a few since his "training" from Obi-Wan consisted entirely of one pep talk aboard the Falcon) but that doesn't mean they can't, it just means...they don't really know what they're doing.

I guess to orient it through a D&D reference what I'm wondering is are Jedi more like Sorcerers or Wizards.

If they're Sorcerers, someone strong in the force would be able to manifest force abilities without any training, but those manifestations would be wild, unpredictable and they would quickly become a danger to themselves and others, both physically and potentially spiritually, until they sought training to master themselves.

If they're more like Wizards, then the training is most of what allows them to tap into the Force in the first place, beyond just hearing it's call. It would require study to physically manifest the Force with something like a push or a mind control or...whatever.

I think there's evidence enough you could see it either direction, but if the training doesn't actually make you stronger in the Force, but only makes you more disciplined it answers so many questions about Rey and her conflict with Kylo. It would then be very simple: Rey mind tricks the guard because she's powerful enough to do it, she needed it and the Force then provides. Rey defeats Kylo because Rey is just stronger in the Force than Kylo is. She may not have discipline but, let's be real here, discipline is probably Kylo's biggest weakness as a knight period.

So that's what I'm thinking at this point: no amount of training can actually make you stronger in the Force. It's why you have to be Force sensitive in the first place for the training to even mean anything. It can only give you control over yourself, allowing you to channel your natural strength more cleanly. Not using force powers untrained is more a failure of imagination than it is a failure of knowledge.

 

[Edvardelis]

What if.... she's no-one importants' kid. And is literally just a diamond in the rou diamond in the diamond in the diamond.

In spite of Star Wars taking place across a galaxy, it's got a small town feel where distances are tiny, everyone knows everyone, and everyone is probably everyone else's second cousin.

Would I prefer it if she's not related to anyone? Yes. Do I expect that? No.

 

[Kor of Memory]

The thing I really want to know is who the fuck is Snoke. If he is tempting Ben as a young child that means he's already a powerful force user at the time of the OT. So who is this person? Basically Jorus C'baoth?

I think the novelization implies he has been around since before the PT even started.

 

[Neoweee]

Finally saw the movie last night and it was pretty tood, but it bugged me how they drained he sun but everyone on thhat planet didnt just instantly freeze and die...

Instantly? It would take quite a while for a planet to cool down once its star is gone. It's like why people on Earth don't die every night.

 

[hipsterpants]

Also, this is probably super nitpicky but Abrams or whoever must have had a real hard-on for those "hero turns just in time to shoot guy running in from background" shots. Finn, Han, and Chewie all got in on that action and I'm sure Rey did too but I didn't notice. Not a complaint but just something I observed.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

- Han definitely knows her, which is why Maz's query of "who's the girl?" is answered off-screen.

Han knowing who she might be doesn't mean he knows she's his daughter, which is the theory.

Leia's behavior by itself is enough to kill the theory. She wants Kylo returned to her. So when her daughter shows up on her doorstep - nothing?

Nah.

She ain't Leia & Han's.

 

[Skellig Gra]

I think the novelization implies he has been around since before the PT even started.

That doesn't make any sense but that would at least explain his power level.

 

[brandonh83]

Yeah that scene with the smugglers and the creatures chasing them around the ship was the worst part of the movie and felt exactly like the monster scene in ST2009 when Kirk was marooned. Both were equally unnecessary/pointless.

Hm. I thought it was to show that Han never changed, to see some new creatures/factions within the universe... little stuff like that. I don't mind early movie skirmishes especially in a Star Wars movie.

 

[Boke1879]

I took those glances as something completely different. "Who is this girl?!" That's basically how I saw their early relationship. She was a great pilot and also knew a thing or two about how the Falcon should work, which took Han by surprise because, at her age, she really hasn't seen another transport ship like it. As the movie went on, I felt that he started to have mutual father-like feelings towards her, which is why he offered her a job. I think this is especially important because he had a void to fill after Ben joined the Knights of Ren and lost his way to the darkside. Rey was starting to fill that void.

I'm a firm believer that Rey & Han aren't father and daughter. I'm still on the fence about her being related to Luke, but my hopes are that she's something completely different.

I'm on the fence with her being Luke's child as well. She could just be someone completely new. But like others have said she definitely shares a connection with Luke. The Saber giving her flashbacks.

Also Ren diving into her mind telling her she sees visions of an island and the sea. She definitely has a connection with Luke.

 

[Messypandas]

What if she's Daniel Craigs kid.

 

[kopitarrulez_11]

Also, this is probably super nitpicky but Abrams or whoever must have had a real hard-on for those "hero turns just in time to shoot guy running in from background" shots. Finn, Han, and Chewie all got in on that a action and I'm sure Rey did too but I didn't notice. Not a complaint but just something I observed.

Gotta love the Han no look shot though hahahaha

 

[LegendofLex]

Leia's behavior by itself is enough to kill the theory. She wants Kylo returned to her. So when her daughter shows up on her doorstep - nothing?

Not nothing, though? The only interaction we see between the two of them is a hug. We don't know how/if they continued to interact off-screen.

All we know is that she's likely related to the Skywalkers, based on Maz's line about inheriting the lightsaber. We have just as much evidence that she's Luke's kid than we do that she's not Han and Leia's - exactly none.

 

[zeitgeist]

I'm definitely starting to gravitate towards the idea that Rey was trained by Luke and got her memory wiped. I also think maybe he has been watching over her / getting stronger this whole time.

I also have a feeling that Luke was the one to cause the split in the ground that separated Rey and Kylo Ren moments before she was about to finish the job (to keep her from going to the dark side? or to save Kylo so he can come back from the dark side maybe??)

I've also always had it in the back of my mind that Shmi was lying about the no father thing and maybe Luke/ Leia or Rey were actually immaculately conceived and thus are the true chosen one / ones.

 

[Skellig Gra]

I'm on the fence with her being Luke's child as well. She could just be someone completely new. But like others have said she definitely shares a connection with Luke. The Saber giving her flashbacks.

Also Ren diving into her mind telling her she sees visions of an island and the sea. She definitely has a connection with Luke.

Couldn't that also just be because she's seen the map?

 

[George Oscar Bluth II]

When they first mentioned the Rahtars, I expected some cool and menacing creature consisting of practical effects with CGI enhancements.

Needless to say, I was disappointed.

 

[MMarston]

Not nothing, though? The only interaction we see between the two of them is a hug. We don't know how/if they continued to interact off-screen.

That could mean a million other things.

 

[Solo]

Hm. I thought it was to show that Han never changed, to see some new creatures/factions within the universe... little stuff like that. I don't mind early movie skirmishes especially in a Star Wars movie.

They could have had the scene with both parties of smugglers as they did, to show Han's charm to talk his way out of anything remained intact. That part was fine. The CG monster chase that followed? Stop it.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Yeah that scene with the smugglers and the creatures chasing them around the ship was the worst part of the movie and felt exactly like the monster scene in ST2009 when Kirk was marooned. Both were equally unnecessary/pointless.

That whole sequence looked like bad Doctor Who filler.

 

[-tetsuo-]

She spends all her free time studying ship schematics and running flight sims.

1)They never address this in the movie at all. Not even a little bit. If it is explained somewhere else then it is just another thing the movie messed up.
2)Was she studying the schematics of the Falcon for her to line up that shot?

 

[brandonh83]

They could have had the scene with both parties of smugglers as they did, to show Han's charm to talk his way out of anything remained intact. That part was fine. The CG monster chase that followed? Stop it.

Meh I love that stuff lol. Totally harmless to me but I get what you mean.

 

[LegendofLex]

That could mean a million other things.

It doesn't mean anything for or against.

A lot of people are certain that we have evidence that definitively rules out Rey as Han/Leia's daughter, though.

I'm just saying it's still possible that she could be; indeed, just as possible as the more widely accepted theory that she's Luke's kid.

 

[DarkKyo]

Again, I am a fan. But if you can move something with the mass of the Death Star at FTL speeds to get to other systems, then you can much more easily find a large mass (say, an asteroid) and just drop it on the planet you want to wipe out. You can manage an extinction-level event with less effort.

Star Wars is fantasy though, not science fiction. It's all good. but it's not something that handles scrutiny.

You want to get rally scary, if you can just to FTL *and stay there* and hit a planet, you don't even need anything that large.

For visual and thematic reasons, Big Planet of Doom works pretty well though.

I guess the advantage that the Death Star would have over those other methods is that it's an actual massive base with soldiers on it. It functions as both a super weapon and a massive military force capable of landing thousands of soldiers down onto a planet and hundreds of soldiers into aerial/space combat situations in a very short period of time. There's probably many more situations where you'd want soldier to planet interaction compared to just annihilating the planet. It also serves as a more effective psychological tool for the Empire since the presence of the Death Star is a more visible and daunting threat to any opposing governing forces than other methods of planet destruction. The idea that the Empire is watching and literally has their finger on a button that can instantaneously destroy your world.

 

[ReAxion]

Couldn't that also just be because she's seen the map?

Or if that's where a Jedi temple is, it means nothing new at all.

 

[MMarston]

That whole sequence looked like bad Doctor Who filler.

Doctor Who with a proper budget that is.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Not nothing, though? The only interaction we see between the two of them is a hug. We don't know how/if they continued to interact off-screen.

That's a pretty biiiiiiiiiiiiig stretch in the face of all the other shit.

It doesn't match up with anything Leia says about her son. She'd basically be telling Han that all the mistakes they made with Ben they doubled down on with Rey. So why wouldn't she and Han have called their bullshit off the instant either one of them met her? Or gone back for her much, much sooner at any point in the last 15 years?

It's not on the table. It's certainly not just as possible as the Luke theory, or even the Kenobi theory.

 

[Messypandas]

Those tentacle things looked straight out of Men in Black.

 

[Blade30]

....

Sounds like your nephew is more grown up than some other people, who over analyse things.

 

[Skellig Gra]

Those tentacle things looked straight out of Men in Black.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Is there a gif of Kylo Ren being shot by Chewie's blaster? I feel we need one because people are somehow confused that Kylo, who was also stabbed in his dominant arm, and emotionally distressed because he just killed his father and took a huge L when Rey took the lightsaber instead of him was struggling in a fight against Rey who was relatively unharmed aside from being shellshocked by a force push.

Something I've been thinking about and can't remember from my studies of the Jedi in my youth: Does training with a Jedi, Sith or equivalent force tradition provide one greater mastery over the Force or greater mastery over yourself?

We've never before seen an untrained person use force powers (though I would argue that Luke used quite a few since his "training" from Obi-Wan consisted entirely of one pep talk aboard the Falcon) but that doesn't mean they can't, it just means...they don't really know what they're doing.

I guess to orient it through a D&D reference what I'm wondering is are Jedi more like Sorcerers or Wizards.

If they're Sorcerers, someone strong in the force would be able to manifest force abilities without any training, but those manifestations would be wild, unpredictable and they would quickly become a danger to themselves and others, both physically and potentially spiritually, until they sought training to master themselves.

If they're more like Wizards, then the training is most of what allows them to tap into the Force in the first place, beyond just hearing it's call. It would require study to physically manifest the Force with something like a push or a mind control or...whatever.

I think there's evidence enough you could see it either direction, but if the training doesn't actually make you stronger in the Force, but only makes you more disciplined it answers so many questions about Rey and her conflict with Kylo. It would then be very simple: Rey mind tricks the guard because she's powerful enough to do it, she needed it and the Force then provides. Rey defeats Kylo because Rey is just stronger in the Force than Kylo is. She may not have discipline but, let's be real here, discipline is probably Kylo's biggest weakness as a knight period.

So that's what I'm thinking at this point: no amount of training can actually make you stronger in the Force. It's why you have to be Force sensitive in the first place for the training to even mean anything. It can only give you control over yourself, allowing you to channel your natural strength more cleanly. Not using force powers untrained is more a failure of imagination than it is a failure of knowledge.

If clone wars(the 3D show) and this movie is any indication, it's letting the force flow through you and guide you. Training can make you stronger in the sense that you learn to do more with it to the point that it becomes second nature.

 

[Solo]

Rey is not Han's daughter. There is not a single piece of evidence in the film that points to that. I'm not even sure how someone would form that opinion while watching TFA.

 

[Ophelion]

2)Was she studying the schematics of the Falcon for her to line up that shot?

I mean, it was in the same Junkyard she spent so much time hanging out in and it's not like she's got much better to do. She certainly knew that Star Destroyer inside and out.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I have no idea who Snoke is, but I imagine the leading fan theory is that he's secretly Darth Plagueis right?

 

[Hawkian]

So that's what I'm thinking at this point: no amount of training can actually make you stronger in the Force.

Sounds like (I don't know anything about D&D) the "Sorceror" version is closer to what Jedi are like, at least as portrayed in the OT and Anakin/Obi-Wan interactions in the prequels. This quote right here is what I always too to be the general thrust of Yoda's point, and specifically "do or do not, there is no try."

 

[brandonh83]

I have no idea who Snoke is, but I imagine the leading fan theory is that he's secretly Darth Plagueis right?

Not happening.

 

[rrc1594]

We discussed a lot of Rey theories yesterday. There way to far back to properly find and link, but some of them include (and yes, also sound wtf)

1.) She is a Skywalker daughter due to her obviously strong Force powers( Most likely)
2.) She is a Kenobi granddaughter due to a remarkable amount of on-screen similarities to the Obi-Wan's appearances in the films.(Plz no I hate Obi)
3.) She's a clone of Shmi Skywalker, who Snoke wants to birth Ani 2.0(It's carzy but could be cool)
4.) She's a 1000 year old girl who was found in the Jedi Temple, or something similar to that degree( That's insane)
5.) She's another creation of the midi-chlorians much like Anakin was( I wouldn't mind this)
6.) She's actually a sleeper cell Knights of Ren who got the Bourne memory treatment(Not likely)

Hmm

 

[hipsterpants]

Maybe it was the Force that gave sure such good piloting skills.

 

[neorej]

That whole sequence looked like bad Doctor Who filler.

It was inconsistent as fuck. Every guy that aRathtar got hold of, got swallowed whole immediately. Finn? He gets dragged across half the ship so Rey can save him using pneumatic doors.

 

[LegendofLex]

She'd basically be telling Han that all the mistakes they made with Ben they doubled down on with Rey.

Except the mistake they made with Ben was to force him into Jedi training with Luke, which appears to have been the wrong response to the signs he was beginning to be tempted by the dark side - just like it was with Anakin, who he came to idolize.

What happened with Rey was that she was specifically kept away from her family's drama and allowed to make her own decisions (incidentally, just like Luke was). And as a result she's turning out more like Luke.

 

[Skellig Gra]

Not happening.

Well there really is no valid explanation for him. It's most likely he's some ancient baddie who we never heard from until now for unknown reasons.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

So that's what I'm thinking at this point: no amount of training can actually make you stronger in the Force. It's why you have to be Force sensitive in the first place for the training to even mean anything. It can only give you control over yourself, allowing you to channel your natural strength more cleanly. Not using force powers untrained is more a failure of imagination than it is a failure of knowledge.

I think the films point at this pretty strongly. The calisthenics routine on Dagobah maybe confused it a little, but it certainly seems a lot cleaner to suggest that the whole point of "training" a Jedi is training them to get their mind out of their own fucking way so as to more efficiently access the Force.

What happened with Rey was that she was specifically kept away from her family's drama and allowed to make her own decisions (incidentally, just like Luke was). And as a result she's turning out more like Luke.

Which makes it seem much more like a Luke decision, not a Han & Leia decision, right? That's how Luke thinks/operates. Not Han & Leia.

You have to really want her to be Han & Leia's kid to even pursue it after having watched the movie. It made some sense before the film came out, using the thin context provided by the spoilers, but with the full film now out there and digestable, it just doesn't fit.

 

[-tetsuo-]

Is there a gif of Kylo Ren being shot by Chewie's blaster? I feel we need one because people are somehow confused that Kylo, who was also stabbed in his dominant arm, and emotionally distressed because he just killed his father and took a huge L when Rey took the lightsaber instead of him was struggling in a fight against Rey who was relatively unharmed aside from being shellshocked by a force push.

It only started bothering him after Rey whispered the force. He just totally gave up after that to let Rey have her Van Damme moment.

 

[ReAxion]

1)They never address this in the movie at all. Not even a little bit. If it is explained somewhere else then it is just another thing the movie messed up.
2)Was she studying the schematics of the Falcon for her to line up that shot?

We'd have to spend a lot more time with her on planet to establish this basic fact. It's not a mistake, it's a waste of runtime to establish that. That's why there are books; runtime can't be infinite.

It's obvious she studied the schematics of the Falcon, too. That's like the most obvious thing.

 

[TheOctodad]

1)They never address this in the movie at all. Not even a little bit. If it is explained somewhere else then it is just another thing the movie messed up.
2)Was she studying the schematics of the Falcon for her to line up that shot?

1) She blatantly states that she's flown before just not this far out into space. She also is a scavenger that is inside these kinds of ships day in and day out.

2) The falcon is a pretty standard ship design YT-1300. Wouldn't be crazy to think that she had flown one before.

 

[GiantEnemyGoomba]

1)They never address this in the movie at all. Not even a little bit. If it is explained somewhere else then it is just another thing the movie messed up.
2)Was she studying the schematics of the Falcon for her to line up that shot?

She was definitely pretty familiar with the Falcon before flying it considering she knew every owner it had since Han. Also when they got on the ship she pointed out to Finn the ladder that would take him to the guns. Her knowledge was enough to know that having the Tie Fighter directly underneath would give Finn the best shot.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

I have no idea who Snoke is, but I imagine the leading fan theory is that he's secretly Darth Plagueis right?

Yes.