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[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #2) - One Thumb Up

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Aselith said:
I think the problem was that the Rebels had only a few fighters to attempt the assault but the Death Star would have had basically infinite fighter wings to scramble. Fighting them ship to ship would have been suicide also.
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So I thought of that as well and you do what Poe does in such a situation which is....
Have your wingmates stay the hell out of the canyon and fly above and behind you so they can cover your ass instead of going down the barrel of doom.
 
If Snoke is plagueis he could get Rey to respond to him by saying he can bring her family back to life, especially if their death was her own fault or Luke's.

DiipuSurotu said:
What if the Republic are the ones to build a superweapon in the next film. They need to step up their game after this spectacular failure.
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Almost certain Leia and the resistance won't be entirely working for the Republic. This war would be more even, the republic might not give a damn about Luke and could get in the way.
 
DiipuSurotu said:
What if the Republic are the ones to build a superweapon in the next film. They need to step up their game after this spectacular failure.
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The Resistance had one in an earlier version but JJ thought audiences were too dumb to handle a RotJ-scale battle. It was sort of a giant, flying battering ram.
 
Inorigo said:
I think it's maybe the most valid theory out there. Nowhere near as obvious as Rey being Luke's daughter because the general audience would have no idea who Plagueis is.

But you know, you have that group of people that hates the prequels so passionately they don't want this trilogy tied to them at all regardless of whether we're talking about a good idea or a bad one.
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If the prequels had tie fighters, x wings, storm troopers, and more chewbacca they would have loved those movies, fact. They just hate it on it because stuff outside of what I just listed, they just cant envision in the star wars series. So thats why they nitpick every last thing about the prequels, yet they wont nitpick the originals under any circumstances despite the originals having many flaws.

I mean ive heard them complain about everything "oh the planets in the prequels were so boring and crappy looking, the planets in the OT were sooooooo much better".
 
Inorigo said:
I think it's maybe the most valid theory out there. Nowhere near as obvious as Rey being Luke's daughter because the general audience would have no idea who Plagueis is.

But you know, you have that group of people that hates the prequels so passionately they don't want this trilogy tied to them at all regardless of whether we're talking about a good idea or a bad one.
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Is it a good idea though? Wouldn't it just make Palpatine seem like an utter moron? If he supposedly killed him in his sleep, how could there be any doubt that he was dead? Did Palpatine not sense that he was alive? Not that I care about retconning the prequels but it's a bit lame to just go one rung up on the Sith ladder for this trilogy's main villain.

I'd rather Snoke be an original character, he could even be a fraud hiding behind a Wizard of Oz style hologram.

soxxx said:
If the prequels had tie fighters, x wings, storm troopers, and more chewbacca they would have loved those movies, fact. They just hate it on it because stuff outside of what I just listed, they just cant envision in the star wars series. So thats why they nitpick every last thing about the prequels, yet they wont nitpick the originals under any circumstances despite the originals having many flaws.

I mean ive heard them complain about everything "oh the planets in the prequels were so boring and crappy looking, the planets in the OT were sooooooo much better".
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The OT have many flaws but they have charming characters and a sense of adventure. Neither of those things are present in the prequels, they have all the flaws of the OT but none of the good parts. Comparing Luke and Leia to Anakin and Padme is simply painful. There's nothing there for audiences to get attached to, just a couple of dull morons.
 
brandonh83 said:
There's no way Snoke is Plageuis.
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Why. The same music was played as in Revenge of the Sith. Snoke looked similar, just very deformed to what he should like. Did you see the slice down his forehead? perhaps that was Palpatines slash from when he killed him in his sleep.

Palpatine assumed he did not know how to save himself from death, he might have known how and just went into exile because Palpatine had become more powerful
 
I do expect this trilogy to end with some of the villain Force users alive, whether that's Snoke or Ren permanently being a Sith Lord is to be determined.

They gotta make an Episode 10.
 
Ushojax said:
Is it a good idea though? Wouldn't it just make Palpatine seem like an utter moron? If he supposedly killed him in his sleep, how could there be any doubt that he was dead? Did Palpatine not sense that he was alive? Not that I care about retcomming the prequels but it's a bit lame to just go one rung up on the Sith ladder for this trilogy's main villain.

I'd rather Snoke be an original character, he could even be a fraud hiding behind a Wizard of Oz style hologram.
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Even though it is now non-canon, I believe Darth Plagueis let Palpy kill him to test his theory of coming back from the dead.
 
soxxx said:
If the prequels had tie fighters, x wings, storm troopers, and more chewbacca they would have loved those movies, fact. They just hate it on it because stuff outside of what I just listed, they just cant envision in the star wars series. So thats why they nitpick every last thing about the prequels, yet they wont nitpick the originals under any circumstances despite the originals having many flaws.

I mean ive heard them complain about everything "oh the planets in the prequels were so boring and crappy looking, the planets in the OT were sooooooo much better".
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What? No. The prequels were just badly made, soulless cgi messes. The dialogue sucked. The direction sucked. The action sucked. There is so little to redeem them.

There's more heart in the first five minutes of TFA than the entire prequel trilogy.
 
That music could just be Williams trying to represent the dark side, not specifically Plagueis.

graffix13 said:
Even though it is now non-canon, I believe Darth Plagueis let Palpy kill him to test his thoery of coming back from the dead.
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I thought his power was to create life, i.e. Anakin. Palpatine said the saving others part was bullshit (and Anakin should have killed him on the spot after hearing that).
 
soxxx said:
Why. The same music was played as in Revenge of the Sith.
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It's not the same music, and even if it was, that music wasn't Plagueis' theme. It was source music for the opera they're watching. That he composed something similar to it isn't necessarily a sign. There's more than a few cues in this soundtrack that sound similar to his work on Episode III.

Besides which, Abrams has already said it's not Plagueis.
 
Half of what makes the Plagueis scene in RotS good (and yes, the scene is really damn good, prequel status be damned) is that you're not sure how much of it is legend and how much of it is truth. Having Snoke be Plagueis would ruin that ambiguity.
 
Ushojax said:
Is it a good idea though? Wouldn't it just make Palpatine seem like an utter moron? If he supposedly killed him in his sleep, how could there be any doubt that he was dead? Did Palpatine not sense that he was alive? Not that I care about retcomming the prequels but it's a bit lame to just go one rung up on the Sith ladder for this trilogy's main villain.

I'd rather Snoke be an original character, he could even be a fraud hiding behind a Wizard of Oz style hologram.
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Isn't his whole schtick that he could cheat death or have some control over it? Also Snoke's face looked like he had been through some shit, like he had taken lightsabers to the face or been force lightning-ed.

He's already been described as very old, vulnerable and about 8 feet tall.

Bobby Roberts said:
It's not the same music, and even if it was, that music wasn't Plagueis' theme. It was source music for the opera they're watching. That he composed something similar to it isn't necessarily a sign. There's more than a few cues in this soundtrack that sound similar to his work on Episode III.

Besides which, Abrams has already said it's not Plagueis.
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Said the same for Khan.
 
If Snoke isn't a brand new character then it's probably Plagueis. There was that line on the bridge where Ren called Snoke wise so they did at least foreshadow it if they go down that route.
 
Fuck it. Going to go tomorrow and catch the 7:30 showing for my third viewing. Was going to wait until Saturday but this will my Christmas gift to myself. I wonder how full the theater will be at the time on Christmas?
 
Ape Gone Insane said:
So how is the community treating the Snoke is Plagueis theory? Is it likely? Been looking at some artwork for Plagueis and he's looking very, very similar to Snoke's depiction.
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The idea of Darth Plagueis is a very exciting one, with his ability to resuscitate people with the force. But the general audience, and even most fan have no idea who the guy is. There has been only two novels about him in the EU.
Palpatine talked about him briefly to Anakin in RotS, except for that I don't think he is mentioned in any other approved literature or TV show (correct me, if I am wrong.)
If Snoke is Darth Plagueis, it would be a hell of a rhyme tho.
 
Just the word 'Plagueis' has that awkward try-hard vibe of the prequels. I just can't see them using it.
 
Ape Gone Insane said:
So how is the community treating the Snoke is Plagueis theory? Is it likely? Been looking at some artwork for Plagueis and he's looking very, very similar to Snoke's depiction.
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Like all theories of its sort, it's impossible to disprove until we see the next movie(s).

But, while I can't deny that his music is pretty much the same as that which was used during Palpatine's story about Plagueis, I don't think that's enough to make the leap (it may just as well be John Williams re-using a sinister theme). Especially when, so far, the new trilogy has shown no interest in that sort of overboiled twist which relies on obscure PT mythology.

No one even knows of or cares about Plagueis except for obsessive fans. I'd give about 5% odds of it being the case.
 
Ape Gone Insane said:
Said the same for Khan.
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And got his ass whipped for it, and had Kennedy clearly state bullshit like that would not be happening on her watch.

So no, you can't just point at Khan. Especially when he had multiple options to do similar things with this movie and never bit. Plus Kasdan doesn't even know what the fuck a Plagueis is.

Unless you're gonna suggest Snoke's "secret identity" (as if he needs one) is literally the most important aspect of the trilogy. Which it very likely isn't.

The only reason the Plagueis thing even got brought up in the first place is a fair amount of people think the direct tie to prequel-era plotting is absolutely needed, or would improve the saga somehow.

It wouldn't.
 
Ushojax said:
Just the word 'Plagueis' has that awkward try-hard vibe of the prequels. I just can't see them using it.
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I wouldn't say that. But Plagueis is dead and I don't think Abrams liked the prequels so I don't really see him bringing in that character. I don't even think Lucas would have.
 
Ushojax said:
Just the word 'Plagueis' has that awkward try-hard vibe of the prequels. I just can't see them using it.
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The simple solution, of course, is to call him Hego Damask.

How did the First Order get the resources to fund the Starkiller Base? Well, there's this thing called Damask Holdings...
 
AtomnayaKlubnika said:
The idea of Darth Plagueis is a very exciting one, with his ability to resuscitate people with the force. But the general audience, and even most fan have no idea who the guy is. There has been only two novels about him in the EU.
Palpatine talked about him briefly to Anakin in RotS, except for that I don't think he is mentioned in any other approved literature or TV show (correct me, if I am wrong.)
If Snoke is Darth Plagueis, it would be a hell of a rhyme tho.
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True that, but they're free to borrow whatever they want from the 'non-canon' and change it to fit. If they wanted, they could still take the idea of Plagueis and introduce him as someone who survived Sidious' attempt and sat in the background afterwards.
 
Even if Snoke turned out to be Plagueis, it wouldn't mean shit. We barely know anything about him besides the Palpatine spiel.

It would just end up being an Easter Egg for the hardcore fans.
 
Ushojax said:
Just the word 'Plagueis' has that awkward try-hard vibe of the prequels. I just can't see them using it.
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Snoke's title is Supreme Leader. The try-hard line has already been crossed.

Honestly, I don't know why some people are so against Plagueis = Snoke. Is it because everything prequel related really scorched Earth? Snoke being the mentor to Palpatine and cheating death is about the easiest way to establish him as a higher tier threat.
 
Ape Gone Insane said:
True that, but they're free to borrow whatever they want from the 'non-canon' and change it to fit. If they wanted, they could still take the idea of Plagueis and introduce him as someone who survived Sidious' attempt and sat in the background afterwards.
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Why, though?

Aside from the tie back to Palpatine's bullshit story, what does it actually add to this one? How would dragging that bullshit into this trilogy do anything but help that one?

The storytelling purpose of pulling him into this trilogy is completely misplaced. Which is another good reason why it'll never happen.

Besides which, it seems much more likely to me that Snoke's getting waxed in the next movie anyway so as to allow for Ren's rise to Supreme Leader for the third movie.
 
brandonh83 said:
No it doesn't. And the rest of your points are pretty vague and grasping for straws :p
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Do you really have the higher ground though?

If people just dislike the idea, fair enough. I don't see any compelling arguments for why Snoke simply can't be Plagueis though.

Bobby Roberts said:
It's not the same music, and even if it was, that music wasn't Plagueis' theme. It was source music for the opera they're watching. That he composed something similar to it isn't necessarily a sign. There's more than a few cues in this soundtrack that sound similar to his work on Episode III.

Besides which, Abrams has already said it's not Plagueis.
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Ah, okay.
 
He could be Plagueis in all but name. Old Sith who dabbled in preventing death. Then JJ would technically be telling the truth. lol
 
Biggest-Geek-Ever said:
Snoke's title is Supreme Leader. The try-hard line has already been crossed.

Honestly, I don't know why some people are so against Plagueis = Snoke. Is it because everything prequel related really scorched Earth? Snoke being the mentor to Palpatine and cheating death is about the easiest way to establish him as a higher tier threat.
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Because Plagueis was mentioned in the prequels, which is like cancer to the hardcore star wars fans.
 
If Palpatine had told that story in the OT they would all be on board with it. Its how their minds function. Its really absurd.
 
Bobby Roberts said:
Why, though?

Aside from the tie back to Palpatine's bullshit story, what does it actually add to this one? How would dragging that bullshit into this trilogy do anything but help that one?

The storytelling purpose of pulling him into this trilogy is completely misplaced. Which is another good reason why it'll never happen.

Besides which, it seems much more likely to me that Snoke's getting waxed in the next movie anyway so as to allow for Ren's rise to Supreme Leader for the third movie.
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What does it add? Er a scary Sith lord who can cheat/manipulate death and was Sidious' master. That would be a pretty formidable opponent. They wouldn't have to tie back at all, could just introduce him as such.
 
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